this began. yeah the didn't know what it would also. just but other. 6. there are still winnable at the middle that's the ticket on them. and they made a good. rule of the discipline that might be. accomplished at the podium of support us that will shape the truth into you and your family but a way to get us knowing at least i'm listening in a cause then yeah. i could keep a log of the. go it really was shit ability to.

come from room all over from the skull in the office and yeah people still spinning my was a. couple posts but call me on the porch i. still see. how many of. the story is one of the many stories that we are yet to hear that we're yet to uncover because if this bomb goes ahead as rumored now i mean it's not official until you know the press conference is gathered everything is voiced lots of athletes particularly young athletes will suffer the consequences of that and i'm sure we'll hear a lot of stories like that and you know one story already happening my deal is a scan of the you know the european athlete of the year phenomenal athlete who has won 3 gold medals at the world cup just recently never tested by. in her career

she's already been denied access to next year's athletics championship in glasgow for a decision by the british athletics association and you know this is just the 1st shock waves of what we're about to experience once the decision becomes official exactly i'm not looking at the individual athletes but if we take a little bit wider perspective the other thing at stake here is whether or not country can host any major tournaments how do you think that's going to impact the world of sport in general you know this is the most tricky part i should say because not all sports organizations and associations in the world are actually at hearing 2 of the water code one of those organizations is. you know the main body of football in europe which is obviously due to host the euro 2020 championship all across the continent including st petersburg russia for games to be played there including the champions league final in 2021 we've already heard very very vocal indications from the president of. who said that no matter what the decision is

this will not affect both the euro and the champions league final there are similar indications coming from the head of the international hockey federation who also said you know the upcoming world cup in russia in a few years time will also be held regardless of the decision by wada but for instance the international olympic committee namely the head of the the chairman of the i.o.c. he's already said pretty clear that whatever decision water comes up with the i.o.c. will listen to it and you know in a nutshell what we've been hearing and reading in the run up to this day it seems quite clear that if russia is to compete in tokyo and france the winter olympics that will be on the neutral flag again as we discussed earlier for many athletes this is a psychological catastrophe this is something they will never be able to live over for the younger athletes let's say 1618 it's not the end of the world because you know they're still progressing in their careers and even if the. the ban is applied

to many international competitions you know the will come strong when they're 2223 and will still have hopefully very nice careers but what is very important here is that the whole system basically now needs to massively you know both change and have a look at that self because where else in the world where else in history have you seen a country and nation being slapped with a 2nd time and not even for you know something they've done again but it's basically you know relating to the same story from the years back so you know this changes the game only for international sports and we only have to see how many more shock waves not only related to russia but everywhere else will see because again doping is something which is widespread everywhere. across this breaking news for us now and a quick reminder for anyone who is just now turning in a huge blow to russian sport as the world anti-doping agency has decided to ban the country's athletes from major international tournaments for the next 4 years as of

course includes the olympic games in 2020 and possibly football's world cup and 2020 we go live now to charlotte. in france for us now charlotte what are the implications of this decision. well yes jackie reread. this is a huge decision as you mentioned. that russia will be sporting wilderness this was unanimous decision by the world. not only will russia not be able to compete for their country in these major competitions but government officials are also going to be banned from attending those events russia won't be eligible to host it won't be eligible to bid for any major sporting events for the next 4 years during this period and it will mean that there is a ban on flying the russian flag at these major events. now we do understand that

this won't cover the european championships next year russia will still be able to participate in those and russian athletes will be able to participate under a neutral flag say something like the olympic flag if they take part in 2 q 2020 but they won't be able to compete for their country and now. the russian anti doping association has $21.00 days to respond to this unilateral decision before the matter will be taken to court to court now we understand that he is going to appeal against that decision that was made by today here in the sun let's take a listen to what james fitzgerald from water had to say about that decision. proved you know honestly the decision of the committee. non-compliance on the russian and utopia to see for free period of 4 years. with come certain

consequences these conferences were clearly laid previously in advance of the meeting so they were approved. entirely all those all those recommendations have been approved by the exco today. a number of strict conditions. of readmission reinstate reinstating russia when the time comes. try and put some questions to the water board in regards that decision to eke out a little bit more information as to why they decided to take that unilateral decision to ban russian athletes or russia from a sporting events for the next 4 years and it comes as there's also doubt being cast over what does own decision protests processes with some scientists suggesting that its own methods are actually flawed and some of its rules are all the. some

scientists even pointing out that some of the substances that are on the banned duping list haven't actually been verified or tested enough to suggest concretely that they should be on that list the decision today from water it was a unilateral decision a 4 year ban for russia from major sporting events including the world championships and the olympic games that rules out tokyo 2020 but we do know that russian athletes who have had no cloud of suspicion of them will be able to participate a neutral flag and we know that. the russian anti doping agency says that it is going to appeal against that decision. are to charlotte reporting live from us on then we go live now to martin mccauley author and russia analyst for more on this now are you surprised by this fan that we've seen come down. no because if you look at that runner water over the last 3 or 4 years we've come down very very hot in

russia and this is not surprise at all but what i have to accept and then you have retyped not ignored these. will say football goes ahead and we are outside of the water restrictions so the whole. 3 nuclear championships this summer and the world cup can go ahead and the question is can we actually function either russian flag in qatar we have to wait for should you decide so that from the outset exploitive you know very surprising but again the russians kind of people you know to expect a repeat of very strong indeed because there are quite a few who are specialists who would say that what is procedure is. very truxton's is which they have not presented coming to doubt and they should be tested greg so that's why there will be scientific arguments or rep who are rushing

to court pretty strong case to have part of this die and perhaps are rejected weakened but it's very very bad used in the short term investment to think what will the russian an associates look lean they can and proceed but of course they can't compete under russian flags but again they can come they can appeal and who knows where to care is. there a year or so away and i'm things may change. mentioned athletes will not be able to compete under the russian flag if their anthem will not be played if they win how big a deal is that to not be able to have the right to compete under your own national flag. it would be devastating because everyone represents a country they're very proud of their country their national anthem was played and they're here in their own country let's not from the russian put of you it's very

disappointing you cannot state it's like wins a gold medal then you have slates the national anthem and the russian national anthem and not be recognized not be heard and russian flag not be seen so. it really did mean their bigotry it requires every big play and therefore they go home with a medal but of course it's only 90 percent of the voting because we are competing competing your estimates they had their national anthem played. had the mood of glory now that the russians are going to be denied that. also to today we have the normandy talks taking place in paris between russia ukraine and of course mcconnell merkel also be there what you make of the timing of this is decision coming down. it's very interesting that this not new should come out exactly when the no with a grouping meeting in paris one would say it was certain accident they couldn't fax of voters out last week or next week but to decide to bring god used put pressure

in russia. on this event because everyone knows that really russians are in paris trying to still trying to arrive at a conclusion. all the the ukrainian problem. france and germany would like it sinks in as well so that's all there is if you like it's bad news for that event and this will just the newspapers will in fact probably concentrate on this rather than the normal reporting on the dome of the event so the flow if you like it's a way of taking emphasis taking tools and discussion away from goma their way from ukraine and switching to russia. what do you make of those arguing including a lot of vice president that the sanctions actually aren't harsh enough. that's that's his judgment well there's a saying that far too harsh and therefore it's easy to judgment statements and so

on the americans would like their very harsh judgment they would like. not even states who are clean going to be the relations between america and russia president. in fact not very friendly so if integrators would come in and they be very critical of russia. and they will try and achieve that from their point of view. i'm actually mother damage to russian interests and to declare that russia is in fact not a bay it's a national international news and so on to go their own way and snow and this is no example and that's all in many ways it's politics and the last region called south you know war politics it's a war of words. the states in fact would say we're outside politics we're on the streets here sports people and so on please

keep politics out of this but unfortunately for me from their point of view politics is very very important and it's played a very very real gold. martin mccauley author and russia analyst thank you for your time and your comments. now alex is in the studio with us following all of this now we've been talking a lot about what this means for individual athletes but this decision also leaves a lot of things up in the air because it russia from hosting competitions for the next 4 years but that definition of what major competitions is a little fuzzy can you tell us more about that not only that it's fuzzy but also the fact that you know russia could be banned from hosting those competitions as fuzzy as well and primarily because what i have here is a very important list in terms of understanding what the implications could be now over the next 4 years russia is due to host several major international competitions across different types of sports and i have a list here you know according to the codes of those associations that's how they

will make their decisions let's start with the world cup in both senior players and youth youth championships it says that the decision will be made individually by. the federation the same applies to the world cup and you just mentioned that it might be losing russian might be losing the chance to participate in that championship because at the year to watch us code but it doesn't necessarily have to accept it so it could say individually that ok you know what about russia from lympics and other sports competitions but we will not rule out russia's participation in the world cup and 2022 when the question becomes if they can participate if they take want us decision and then say that they can participate but not under the russian flag so i don't think that will happen but it's never happened in history before i mean there is a sort of a possibility for the olympics when you know athletes could participate on the

neutral flag it happened before it happened with different you know countries and states and it happened with russia even for the previous band that russia was serving but it never happened and you know i don't think that. fish holes in the current state and i'm talking about the present. of course you know in the present . that they are ready to make such a drastic decision for something they're not even you know what hearing to. carry on the volleyball world championship in 2022 also to be held in russia again the decision will be made individually by the f b the governing body or foldable in the world the same applies to the water sports championship and the world championship which was recently given to also individual decision so for now what we can almost definitely guarantee is that this applies to the olympic games next summer and into more years in france so russia will have to participate as individual athletes under

a neutral flag. it definitely does not apply to the euro 2020 next summer's championship and the champions league final we've heard very vocal assurances about that from the president. and let's not forget what we're seeing today it's not the end of the story for sure because the decision will be made today it will be voiced today but it will be given russia will be given 21 days to appeal and trust me for the last couple of weeks talking to russian sports officials they've already been preparing for the appeal to the. sports which is ironically 'd also in place where the decision is made today russia will appeal. if you can even say right now what are the chances that will say ok guys it's not going to be a. it's almost likely to resign to the fact that the olympics for russia will be held on the stage will correct me if i'm wrong but i think in the past when russia has received these blanket bans hasn't cast been the one to overturn some of the

individual cases. run back some of the decisions to lifetime ban does not come from caste it did i mean it's always been very individual again it depends on the severity of the accusations it depends on the proof you know in this case again we are talking about the situation when russia is being punished for something again for the very same thing it's not a new case you know ironically and very very surprisingly and to the point of being you know perplexed about it when i read the 1st. decision a couple of weeks back when the compliance if you could be just published what they they were about to recommend to the executive board they even said that they really had no qualms about as work over the last year they said has been doing diligent they've been you know working very honestly and very rigorously on eradicating doping from from sports so they said ok we're sort of did a good job and yet today they are about to ban it again so they are about to slap it with

a non compliance status which essentially kills all the work that he has done over the last year. president has mentioned you know we've been trying to. fight doping but yet again this. is back the whole anti-doping fight in russia i don't know 20 years back or something like that i'm not saying it's a gigantic proportions or anything but if they are willing to make the sport clean here they cannot just say no more that's why they are suggesting they would bring their own experts here they would have somebody on the board sitting on overseeing the process but again this just shows how perplexing and how bizarre. and how twisted this whole decision is when like as you were saying earlier at today's decision really doesn't decide much there are still so many ramifications into the future even though this has been going on for so long because another part of it is that russia cannot make bids for hosting any tournaments either and so that means for the next 4 years there's no possibility of looking to the future for hosting

more tournaments so again the future of athletes in russia of world competitions of what it's going to sports for russia how far do you think those implications go i think these implications go very far primarily because it's not just about individual athletes about their careers about again their psychological pressure of going to olympic games not even being able to represent their own country it's more about the image because in the minds of a lot of people a lot of athletes you know. russians will have this sort of dark stain over them even though the majority of them have never done anything wrong that is the most tragic aspect of this story i should say because you take the story of which we mentioned earlier she's an outstanding athlete people in the world of athletics look at her as a living goddess because she's doing things that many athletes have not been doing for decades and yet again she will be associated with this scandal which is borderline political scandal if if i should say so and again as i mentioned earlier

you look at this decision at the way it's you know it's tailored and you can even understand how you how you can say that the organization did a good job over the year and then slap it with. one more time it's just it's just very bizarre to see this kind of stuff but yeah for young athletes for sports in general you know this is a very very dark day and obviously we're waiting for the press conference which is due to start in an hour we'll hopefully have a little more clarification to you know different things they have already mentioned one of which is actually they said that russian individual athletes and coaches temperate dissipate. over the next 4 years and i quote if they prove noninvolvement in noncompliance with water quote doesn't even make sense how do you do that how do you prove that something didn't exist and even if you do manage to do that isn't there going to be a stain on these if they win anything that anyone can say well we know that you showed somehow but how can we really know it's not going to leave

a stain on any athletes who do compete exactly because again even what what is accusing russia of doing is tempering with the doping. was not done by athletes of course not that was done by if it was done it was done by somebody who has no relation to sports whatsoever i mean there should be. serious investigations and there should be maybe even like possible resignations and sackings and you know people should look into that and see what's the root of the problem but that has nothing to do with athletes. they especially those who have done nothing wrong in their lives and that's exactly the kind of stain i'm talking about because you know even if the whole 4 years even if it loses the appeal you know for years russia is largely exiled from the world of sports but then again i mention the federations which will be reviewing this individually it still leaves the state in both the public opinion. and that's probably the most tragic aspect of this whole story which i should say and this is all coming down from this is just one more that's

made this one decision today there's been many people including from the u.s. from the u.k. and others who have actually been pushing for a full out blanket ban do you think that today is going to be the end of this portion of the story should athletes fear anything further coming down the line that is a good question. depends on how this story unravels and again if this is the final decision again if the appeal is lost you know. you were mentioning the u.s. and u.k. . i don't know on the scale of one to 10 how happy or upset the head of the u.s. anti-doping agency will be today because he was the one calling on the blanket ban from particular the olympics and a lot of the major competition but even from what we've been hearing and again this is the press office. mr fitzgerald walking out to the press and just you know informing them that the c.r.c.

recommendations have been met by the water board. even if those are to be believed and those are made official it doesn't mean that russia is completely individual athletes will be able to perform and maybe that is something which will be largely upsetting to the likes in the u.s. and u.k. because they've been saying like russians need to be together i don't really understand how they could be pursuing these kind of goals you know when it comes to a nation if you want to rid you know the nation of. allegations of doping or stuff like that you don't just say you guys are. participating compete most of these people. themselves and they should understand what it means for an athlete to be losing out on the competition which the athlete had been preparing for for a long time and had never had any in their blood or anything like that and that is also another very tragic aspect of that of course there's so many athletes that

surely had no expectation of this happening again as i mentioned this is another band against russia that have been preparing and now those hopes have been shot down the same thing exactly what kind of response do you think we're going to be seeing from russian athletes and do you think anybody outside of russia will be coming to their defense. well when it comes to the russian athletes they have been many responses so far already i mean again indignation it's rage rage directed at the people you know allegedly complicit in this new story the same story which had a new spin. of course there's a lot of people hurting but even you know if you take the. legendary athletes for that matter i spoke to roy jones jr the legend of boxing the only books that to win titles and for weight divisions which is unique he was just here in russia a fortnight ago and i asked him what you know what his response be to this and he said this kills the dreams and i really like that response because i think it was the most coherent and the most precise response you could get from an athlete this

kills the dreams imagine you are 18 years of age. and when it comes to a limp experience and when it comes to books boxing the athletes going to the olympics they are there not caring professional status for them winning something at the olympics is probably like the only chance to get some silverware and then maybe convert to the professional boxing i mean he was relating to his own story when he was robbed of a gold medal that made him angrier that made him push forward as an athlete and then he won just about everything you could win in boxing but the fact that you said that kills you kills the dream. a lot of young athletes of a lot of kids and he is working with the kids in russia now so he knows what he's talking about that is that is something that no single organization like water you k.w. saw they can get a fix in this well and i say you have a breaking down this breaking news for us in the studio all day with us thank you. now the scandal broke when water analysts found irregularities in the doping test database from the moscow laboratory there were discrepancies with data obtained

earlier from a whistleblower relating to the time period between 20122015 russia insists it never tampered with the database and complied with all water requirements and hawkins picks up the story. russian fleet saw in limbo once again many of them are just taken the 1st steps of their sporting careers when this whole doping saga began 5 years ago and back then the world anti-doping agency accused the rush of a huge cover up they slammed risotto of the russian antidoping body as being unfit for purpose and things escalated quickly i think it doping scandal after a ban on its paralympic athletes was upheld blocking the team from taking part in the upcoming rio paralympic games 15 of the $33.00 russian medal winners were part of a statewide doping program the banned the harshest in olympic history hits officials hardest of the russian olympic committee is suspended.

but things seem to blow over moscow denied they had a state run doping program but admitted they had a problem the russian olympic committee was reinstated and even now reform groups saw other was given the green light subject to strict conditions. so that we actually cooperate with the requirements that. to russia are fully implemented but there was no happy ending water required full access the russian data related to the field of doping testing after a brief deadline delay this was provided in joinery 2019 fast forward to also and things have gone wrong again this time water accused russia of tampering with the data while the 29 team copy of the laboratory. information management system allyou missed database matches in many respects the 2015 copy of provided to wander by

a whistle blower in 2017 hundreds of presumptive adverse analytical findings that appear in the 2015 copies have been removed from the 2019 copy and the related underlying rule data and p.d.f. files have been deleted altered or water haven't named the mysterious whistleblower but one a key witness at the very center of this doping scandal is going to go to rot in coffee before fleeing to the united states where he's now in a witness protection program he was head of the moscow to borrow a tree for 10 years and it turns out his reputation is far from spotless the i.c. further finds that at the heart of the positive drug test coverup is director rod ching cough he not only accepted brutha requested money in order to execute the concealment of positive test results which makes him equally responsible for incidents where coaches or officials extorted athletes even if he was not personally made aware of the extortion no wonder independent russian experts have

doubts about the consistency and reliability of the data. since november 28th 15 when the informant left our country till 2017 when the informant's data set was handed over to the water intelligence and investigations department says data bank was at the informants disposal he could do anything to it but they allege the system was accessed hundreds of times from abroad and that road chunk off who is wanted in russia for abuse of office and drug charges may have been complicit in tampering with the messages in the system independent forensic examination suggests that of support staff members to my fisa bill if ski and let me get your remotely logged into the limbs in moscow on numerous occasions after they had detected abroad so they could have changed the zeros to ones both in their database copy and the one that remained in russia and the monies may need to know what is up but russia.