for them to not be able to compete under the team russia banner to not be able to compete and to potentially willing to have their flag shown if they win at any of these events you know people who've worked in train for years to be able to do that and secondly what impact do you think this will have or new young athletes who are just starting their journey to come through the ranks who are looking at potentially having a career in athletics or in sports at this band could do to them. i can start with with the and. i fully agree with you that. that is and let should should be protected and actually what i just said to hire you the whole exercise of going to moscow to get the data was to exonerate the clean athletes and to get those that had cheated or were protected by the system so

we reached out to our russian colleagues and say please provide us the data and we can finish that case what we then saw was that data where deleted and rolled out of where they lead it so we could not anymore finish finish our cases so therefore it is almost impossible now to really go to the to to every case and to find out whether this outlet was innocent or not and i think this was the russians fold in all our folds and therefore we are really disappointed about about that point nevertheless we want to make sure that stilled to day to day to not lets up or take that and therefore with from our point of view the neutral outlets is a good way of of exonerate those that were not part of the cheats and were not part of any deletions and therefore for our point of view it's

a good decision. ok thank you. here's a question and then how or behind you. this comes the b.b.c. jonathan surely the most robust punishment would have been a blanket ban i just wondered how close so if you discuss that in you'll when you're working out what to do with russia whether how close you came to implementing a blanket ban and why in the end you chose not to. yes thanks for the question yes is absolutely part of the stands it is a possibility under the standard as is the possibility to have a neutral athlete mechanism so there was a choice between a blanket ban and a partial ban and you've heard already the argument that says well even a partial ban and neutral at least is unfair on those athletes and we hear an argument that it's too soft he's too weak so reasonable people can disagree with this i completely understand that from a c.r.c. point of view we discussed it very specifically and the strongest person on that

subject was penny hands film and pick gold medalist world record holder who was very strong on the idea that athletes who are in a new generation would not competing in 20122015 have nothing to do either with the underlying doping scandal all with this cover up in 2819 should have an opportunity to compete i personally don't think in the us to the previous question is anything unfair about making them do so not under a russian flag russia's forfeited his rights to compete with his flag at the mighty games. you can argue is enough should there be a blanket ban in order to force change we have to hope that there will be change in response to what i think are a serious set of consequences but on a specific issue it was the athletes voice that was the strongest on the c house and that's she took everyone with us unanimous on that point and that's why we took

it to the exco on that basis in a place to get unanimous support from them. i think you have or on that and then there's a couple questions here and yeah i have a crush question for our mr berndt cancer or craig. mention that you can argue is it enough with this kind of sanctions would like to ask you guys is it enough or of would you rather have a blanket ban. as president of the organization as chairman of the executive committee we have to rely entirely on the processions that we have put in place if we have an expert comprised of you committee which comes with a detailed you will see the it it's the vailable to you bill 26 you will see the work that has been done you'll see the reasons for their suggestion on sanctions

and i am perfectly happy that we have operated as far as of proof is concerned. i am rather encouraged to hear the news today. that the current balance of sanctions was hugely supported by a very well known international athlete and i'm comfortable with a huge. mr banker as a former police officer as i think i would like to underline and i couldn't agree more with the president. ok question here in the 2nd row and the 3rd row. think you are from a station which a friend of question do present media. a few days ago there was the olympics summit in iraq i believe you were. you made some explanation to the i.o.c. in their organisation what kind of explain did you make and did everybody was on

board with all the package that the c.r.c. recommended today thank you. i was invited to attend the olympic summit to origin the end of the agenda i was asked to report on current activities from water which in the me consisted of the reports from the 6 bottle conference and dropping a sporting culture of each in poland. on some additional work that we had been doing with the developments of the adam system. and when it got round to they actually were trying enough to see could i think of any highlights over the last 6 years as president of the organisation and when it came to questions and points made everybody in the room said that they supported the balance of the balance of sanctions the been of that they were very keen that should be fair my action taken against those who have broken the rules and should be protection for

those who clearly have not. then left the summit but it would be fair to say that you can work it out yourself if there's a unanimous decision this morning then the sports movement was unanimously in favor of it. a question. i'm assessing all but as you know if i'm clear and use our seventies newsagency today where i made a decision that i cannot use a national flag for 4 years piotr and what happened to our national anthem. the russians still can sing. sing national song our national anthem at the olympic games who apparently make big games thank you. and i will pass that question. to my life to judge them but the international standard mentions flags i don't think it mentions anthems john wright. he doesn't mention and tamil people speak

develops in the guidelines however the messages seen colors that he's not a represents to for russia so a part of that if you lost me you could say that also addresses anthems but that's to be decided in the guidelines the point about the consequences proposed used to send the message that russia has forfeited his place of games. as a christian but he's been waiting a while. thank you so jonathan already did told about their old maps so russia could return in 4 years but just to make it clear could it be some kind of early release of the russian of the russian band can it be aborted in the fall in the about 2 or 3 years and what can be conceded iron proof of the changes in russia so it could return to will be exported events my name is even as i get to

from the channel thank you russian. the back of the recommendation which you will have now there are a series of reinstatement conditions that have to be complied with i've mentioned the risotto condition. another one is that international federations be allowed to continue testing and investigating without interference are also several conditions that relate to supporting and call pricing the ongoing investigation of the previous cases which are reported in the 2015 names and that includes both providing more paperwork interviews so evidentiary support. says rectifying the tampering with the type that has happened already and that was referred to earlier so if the rotator is produced and is completely rectified to position so that those cases can be pros then yes they can be

a reconsideration of the length the consequences i have to say. in plenty of opportunities given to provide that and it hasn't shown up yet. ok last couple of questions then right at the front. and. so. does the section see thank you for this opportunity i have 4 questions. first. 145 has let's you just mentioned to you know their names so could you clarify home you know them still compete i mean still active at let's hunt for them one 3rd of them i don't know. second question are you sure that cars will make decision before the olympics in turkey or if. we will. disagree

with you on this. do you expect that some international federations will appeal against your decision and the 1st one what about russian supporters russian fonts that have a chance to attend the deviants who is the russian flags and other national science thinking. i think maybe the 1st one for going to. so thank you for the question so one of their 145 estimates because we have to look crazy for each athlete by. whether they still compete but we guess around one 3rd are still active . your 2nd question was my show the cast will make you suspicious before tokyo. no i can't be sure the standard says it has to be an x. expedited proceeding one possibility is that it is dragged out deliberately or

otherwise so that it doesn't cover talk of if that happens then because it is a rolling 4 year period starts when the decision becomes final it will come paris state so it will be up to the russians to decide which they want to have covered tokyo or paris. will i f c appeal against the decision well 1st of all if rw solder disputes it then it's a cas i f's others affected by this is you can intervene you 1st saw it or accept the decision becomes final but as you say i f's and others affected by the situation can appeal the decision will lay i've got no idea he's up to them to decide whether the impacts on name is something that they think that they should or shouldn't challenge let's remember though the international standard was agreed unanimously just in 28 scene and that decision.

right we've just been listening in to a press conference by water officials after they officially announced that the world anti-doping agency has banned the russian flag and anthem from major international tournaments for the next 4 years and we can actually go back there and listen in further. ok thank you last question chris of frankfurt arguments i don't this goes back to what graham asked earlier it's going to jonathan it's basically the question is is there a clear cut definition of what constitutes a major event under these sanctions and if so which one is it and. to to use the most easy going is a good example i guess why is the the euro 2020 football championship not a major event is that because you are not a signatory to the water code and. regarding the 2022 soccer

world cup. am i correct in assuming that the russian national football team would be playing the qualification matches and you athos guidance as russia and then if they qualify then they would turn into a neutral team. it sounds as if the major event if you look at paragraph $54.00 of the recommendation it covers the major event was a short cut in the press release what are covered up the use olympic games summer and winter olympic games and paralympic games summer and winter any other event organized by a major event organization so for example european a limpid games and any world championships organized or sanctioned by any signatory that's what it says in the stands it is the starting point and it was decided to

stick with that not go but if it european championships which is why the euro zone covered but to cover the event that covers the world the term is the world champion in football the world cup determines the world champion the qualifying event standards are minute so they're not covered the final tournament does cover it so it is covered does determine the champion and so it is covered. ok thank you very much. as i said in my briefing before we will now have a huddle with the russian t.v. media from marilee up here with sir craig. good to younger so those are interested not please come up here if you have one on ones arranged in advance and approved in advance. please come over to where i'm pointing here we will arrange that with you thank you very much.

all right a lot to unpack there we've just been listening and live to a press conference with water officials and laws on switzerland after they officially announce that the world anti-doping agency has banned the russian flag and anthem from major international tournaments for the next 4 years including the upcoming summer olympics in tokyo in 2020 here's what the incumbent president and the elected head of water had to say following their decision. russia. has the right russia. but the reentry for major is. able to demonstrate that not. you we are not complying what is important changes its decision. to we are really sanctioning those who are responsible for what you pollutions and leave those open for those who had nothing

to do with. in russia clean. all right during that press conference we had a lot of questions answered and a lot more questions come up to discuss that we're joined in the studio by alexander now to ship ski and alan moore russian based sport specialist and columnist guys a lot to discuss here but if we can start with what we just heard a lot of the officials there were repeating over and over that this is about you know making it fair for the clean athlete that this is all about protecting the rights our russian athletes who can prove that they are clean designed to punish those who are not do you agree with that. i think this morning i spoke with a source in water and he said exactly what's going to happen has happened it's actually been a bit more hardcore and that there's a set term. which is very very unusual and the fact that the they have judged

to be non-compliant. you know they're going to get these sanctions when the same thing happened for example in bloemfontein in south africa which is the only other time was the only african water created lob before rio. from across africa and south africa were able to compete so do seem to be a bit strange but then they have taken things as going along. in protecting athletes i don't know that that figure who we were at that bit 145 and more of the one 3rd of my simple question is this or the old russian and no one will answer it from walter because again we have to remember that the athletes tested here will also include non-rational fleets and we do know that there were athletes for example going for who was behind the course and helped. change of leadership his samples were tested here but when you cut comeon to try and check to

see what remained of his samples and his data and information because we saw it on t.v. on the big screen that he was being tested here they were all gone so we really have to ask what is there behind this and is it only russian athletes because this is a great question for me that protecting clean athletes who is clean. allow me to disagree a little bit with you because it's not by far not the only question i'm trying to understand here they are saying almost directly that they are punishing those responsible for what happened right they are not punishing those who are responsible apparently if if we are to believe in the allegations that water and the c.r.c. have made an investigative unit they have made against russia it's about someone physically walking into all the boards or and altering the data deleting stuff i don't know altering whatever they said in the huge statement how do those athletes who are they well not batting but they are effectively you know prohibiting them

from wearing their country's flag how are they responsible for what happened. one of the people at the press conference or young is the head of the investigations he said we believe that having athletes compete. a neutral flag for 4 years without any association to the country is the best way to protect them and you called it a living on so. if you have a russian flag that means you're evil and you're deleting information again. we still don't know who delete the information because remember to himself and this has changed from statements i want to give you as it's almost at the same time i was going to younger and so on were in. in an office so when in the next office was the least they've been changing their statements on this because they said wendy they left the lab suddenly they found it all changed who changed it because if that's the case would be a look at the congress and he went on there's so much with this to stinks

there's so much of this is just really is wrong or doesn't even make sense at all completely another thing is that it seems that you know fair enough they have implemented a set of rules in 2018 which was voiced 3 or 4 times during the press conference yeah we have the rules we have to stick by them we're slapping a nation with unprecedented bond like that but what do we do with it now we have no idea when they were asked about the world cup the fifa world cup in qatar when they were asked about different other you know competitions what defines a major competition as well case by case we'll see what the federations think they may actually contest this decision you know if russia fails to appeal in the us if it goes to the us we're pretty sure it will but i knew. that you know they just sort of came out with this big bang but they now know have no idea what to do with it at all which is which is you know we have because water has been one of the

organizations facing a lot of criticism not of course because of the russia case but generally i mean you have the people like. the head of usada obviously he was calling for a blanket ban in russia but many other statements over the years he's been criticizing water for lack of. organization competence transparency from the country where doping happens on the regular basis well this whole thing and we spoke with this before here and you know so how it works this is basically a battle for money and it's a battle for the soul of sports and the soul for these people including people on stage today we listen to is money and control if you look up on that stage there's not a single american or british in europeans including the man who's like leading the whole conversation. travis tygart hey stop he's looking to get rid of you cut he is looking to get control of money because remember in his homeland he is effectively as money would say a eunuch because he is not allowed to test him and use our knowledge as and h o

n f l n b a m l b to major league baseball or the n c jubilate so when there are children 16th century old darling from doping in america and he can't even clean the wood now he wants to blanket ban russian athletes as you said yes they're like you know the people who are responsible for russia being bombed they're not they're not suffering the people the coaches the administrators they're not suffering and you're dead right with that whatever trevor sagas common in it's purely money for them and when they asked like how do you feel about this clean athletes being banned they simply do not care they're protecting themselves they want to try and keep control of the narrative and unfortunately russia is now as we say and whipping boy or whipping girl for this imus a battle for control of this huge huge financial juggernaut which is water on the i.o.c. and that's what's happening in target as you said we saw origin project. where are

all these guys so if you're associated one of things they said previously was if you're associated with a doping coach which we know in russia there are money of them who are now just thrown into wilderness. and rightly so that if you're associated with doping coach or a doping project you should be done. mo pharo who's going to compete in the olympics for great britain and northern ireland he was trained with the project salazar's bond so where does this all begin where does all the end. were like where's the fairness and where is the furnace and we have been discussing this for a while now for several hours that obviously russia is not the only country to have those issues right but it's the only one to having a band like that for the 2nd time in recent history but you know there are so many clean athletes here and i just want to listen to one of those stories because this guy is among those to suffer in the next 4 years apparently if we don't win the

games he's name is that xander took over and he's a skeleton athlete that we talk to. other. people and you should get on a bicycle. commuter . the booth. in your mind you know. the. first began. yeah the. other. 6. there are still. on the. still number. that actually made

a good. discipline that might be somewhat better with the completion of i don't know support us that will shake the tree. and if you put away the. i mean when i see in the cars then yeah. i could keep a log of the. go. in from room all of the from the call in the office and yeah. it's been my i was at the cook if you will just put me on the porch i. still see knew. how many.

and obvious that xander story is one of many that we're yet to hear of the clean athletes who will suffer the possible repercussions of the water decision today i just want to touch base on a few of reactions coming in already and some of them are hugely important remember i referenced in the beginning of our conversation after the press conference that what it has implemented so many things that it doesn't know how to handle yet but you can i want to comes to different sporting events already scheduled for russia one of those is the world championship in ice hockey which is due to be held in russia and we have a source from the i.i.h.f. the international federation saying to real estate agency in russia that those will not be cancelled and will be taking place in russia so this is basically the 1st example already even though it's only like minutes after what happened and you know the 1st federation to say no guys it's not going to concern us we go is to going to hold the championship. here when it comes to feed we have a statement from them can all be really used as an official call but basically they said that before has taken his decision into consideration and will update on the

further course of action because they don't know what to do with it yet nobody knows what to do with it yet because you know the specification that this ban relates to world 'd championships in the places where in the types of sport where a world champion is that it doesn't relate to europe doesn't relate asia africa whatever it's all very it's already mixed and very bizarre don't you think even if celtic measure of ev's what is like if we say it's a mega event or sports may give and that's world corpora lympics and so on so forth . when when what did you expect the expect. another saatchi were the f.s.b. would be like making little mouse hole and taking samples and i would like the day excuse rush of doing in 2014. of. what we have to remember as well as does for example in 2072 were the world at least held in london which is a legacy from 2000 to 2000 to olympics and do testing for that was outsourced so

you can't didn't do that so even the last year the testing was not done with regards to being it was never going to be done so in that you know is it if the quality of the most of the russian athletes for example tennis players they're travelling most of year should have been tested around the world so if you could say well rosat of non-compliant one of the tests the athletes are failing to place in france for example a lot of them are living in monaco they're training in spain and if they fail the test well then is that is not a black mark against the spanish federation you know this all speaks to how messy this can get because we have this announcement but so many more questions they keep talking about you know in this event a mechanism will need to be set aside up and they'll have to work with wa wa i will have to have. rules for this it's not clear if that will affect this championship or not and then they went on to say that it's a rolling 4 year period so what does that mean and is there any and to what this

could include well jonathan himself russia has to decide i'm not making direct bold but the long lines that russia has to decide which games it wants to 4 feet basically the tokyo or paris i mean what kind of choice is that. you either go here or don't go there i mean it's just it's just bizarre because they doing all this under the premise of fight against doping which is a very important fight cheaters should never be in sport without question in this case we're not dealing with cheaters yet despite that you know he said that a 3rd of 145 athletes in the database in the old to database are still active athletes banned them all why would you buy. a nation a flag not even a nation a flag because the promise of. letting individual athletes participate in competitions without their flag.