waves you can. reach parts of the others can't and he's demonstrated the election so i'm really pleased i think he's got a phenomenal brain a great personality enormous energy we've got the right and have the right job because he may have reached out to the electorate of the tory politicians that didn't but cummings his senior strategic advisor has already been. making announcements that seem just suggest he wants a radical reform of the civil service which is long been suspected of a pro remain bias and a thing it was suspected i think i think it was i haven't talked to everybody i think you're. apparently we were always hearing that they were senior civil servants that did not the despised the the largest vote in this country in this country's history breaks it how can dominic cummings really reform an organization like the civil service what is to be very difficult as you know when

you get into government lots of forces come at you and a lot of them suffered in the end so there is going to fought a very hard and determined battle he's going to take them on civil service does need reform it has been i think that in terms of achieving breaks it. proved you have that just you know talking to civil servants i think much more importantly i think it's been completely frozen by the events rather than thinking of how can we prepare for the next phase and i think that is a really difficult position and in the commonwealth of course we brush with the u.k. government we do with $53.00 governments we also know how civil servants can sabotage it is just as they can leak documents they go into them all amerie hence my remark which you know is going to be a very. difficult battle for dominic cult cummins to fight it genuinely is in

a different space to most of the businesses in that it's very difficult to. sack a civil servant it's very difficult to move them out of the civil service is he we had douglas cause well one of dominic cummings is close colleagues in that campaigning on the show who kind of said only cummings was a sort of genius. or the you know do you think he's up to the job i think he's a remarkable you know it's very clear sighted a very clear vision. the point about government though it isn't just about having ideas it's you've got to do the long strokes and it's like a rowing race you do a lot of this very early on to get speed minutes into this and this bit is not so easy for the likes of dominic cummings or for many of those well long strokes are going to be going to be needed after the 31st of january and what do you see as the significance of this date of the 31st of january because really some people could say that is the date from which britain will be subject to all customs union and

single market regulations from brussels and so does berg and we will have no power whatsoever. as regards the regulations we now must know violet well a deal as you know for trade is going to be discussed i'm always amused by hearing politicians saying that they can do things within this timeframe of that time frame if the reserve will it will be done within the timeframe of 10 months i don't think businesses will forgive politicians if they don't get home with this. because it stifling employment and stifling countries stifling. activity and i'm not just talk about the u.k. i'm talking about many of the european countries will start and germany is. trade activity which is huge the united kingdom and it's a no brainer i mean we export hall for what we import to be given and i want to

know that statistic sorry to interrupt you but you're in trouble go ahead but at. if you just take that statistic you would have kind of thought let's get this thing done because it's actually in our interest to have a very harmonious exit exam because we're going to hopelessly wrong when he said that dr johnson had hitched his his his ride was it to donald trump over the trade deal and that is why britain must support the united states on iran given johnson is actually doubled down on his support for the nuclear g.c. agreement i think koeppen labor of got it wrong quite a lawful boris johnson they don't really understand and they've tried to portray him as another trump years and he's actually a centrist by heart and i think. you know he's he's much more moderate than people think. and that will probably be the tone of his coming to some extent but what you just said about european multinationals c.e.o.'s perhaps and boards believing that

we've got to get this done now because as you said e.u. british trade is such a huge component of their businesses and world trade you think they're there they have the pennies drop with them and are going to still fight it because european bureaucrats. saying that this is a very good point very very good point the penitentiary certainly dropped the trade at a business level but the european. government brussels has been open sure it's all the way through. and it will be interesting to see how much pressure the board by the leaders of the countries like macro merkel to quickly speed up what should be a very sensible trade if not know who knows what's going to happen and it could be no deal which would be pretty disastrous for both parties but even more disastrous

for europe but that it is still threatening yes but those are really what you look at they are that if you look at the german economy which is not growing it's going backwards it has been very reliant ball motor industry never once from says oh you can't use german boat manufacturers but what is being demonstrated in the next in the last 6 months to 12 months the slowdown an almost recession the german economy has been entirely due to the motor industry failing to some of the cars if you see if you look at that alone how important the u.k. is to that motor industry then there will be significant pressures and they'll be significant pressures from the child's need to make sure that she has strong trading relationships having been in business all my life the fact is the best type of people you can do business with are people who pay their bills on time. where the contract is supported by a rule of law where you have

a free market economy now britain takes all those boxes so we are a market that is incredibly desirable for all these countries well you save at the european commission is trying to sue the u.k. at the mood for billions of pounds for alleged fraud between 2030 to 2016 i don't know whether these legal cases you see is another delaying tactic and if as you say angela merkel is pulling the strings then why would a slow wonderland be saying the deadline as it stands makes will break that impulse . well of all breaks a deal impossible already these procrastination. is going on there and on their own head be it in my view ok i've got to pull their finger out and get on with it well as you know they can threaten britain by a whole variety of ways what about the 3rd country deals with the european. through 3rd party deals all existing with the european union and the renewal of those in the rule over of those for britain apparently japan is saying japanese

companies will rule that we locate of course motor companies if there isn't no deal breaks it but that country treaties with the e.u. will not be permanently rolled over with the brics well i found these things rather a paradox. in that japan supposedly makes these noises about. you know withdrawing the car industry and i'm not surprised they've shot a plant in swindon because the cars are not really a desirable car in the way they used to be in the old days but then they go home or they then go and invest oh by a property and things like that but i don't see any signs of japan not being interested in doing a deal with u.k. will be a job for the trade own voice because honda would probably disagree with you there but that his that of course they were. telling you what's what is evil as it is to live on to live she says the the price of a new deal breaks it is

a distant partnership with the e.u. as a clean break bricks are getting that she's roughing there's more of this why boris johnson is such captivating. prime minister and leader is because he's positive. bush johnson's come out and say we can't do this and can't do that he comes out say let's get this done let's get that done and by and large he has done everyone said no you can't redo the deal the trees are made go up he went did it there was a border in the irish sea. but it was very conscious. but it's a far better deal the trees made and the deal that was acceptable to the members of parliament and he had less of a majority in syria than she did a good politician is someone who says let's do this let's try and do this let's let's see what's possible it was said that why boris johnson would be leader of this country's gives hope you expect radio voice now to be going around the

commonwealth which you have a specific interest in and all these countries to rapidly study creating new frameworks of the british businesses can work with businesses in the developing world the point about trade and i'm sorry fun of telling my grandmother how to suck eggs but what about trade is that is activity. with trade you don't necessarily have to have a trade deal we've never had a trade deal with the united states our biggest single trading partner and our biggest relationship we've never had a trade deal with them you really need a trade deal where the north think rules of engagement between parties are not certain will there aren't similar rules of law about. where the relation can ship can take you and you need happens in developing which happens definitely developing countries and you need to have a very clear picture of what i see needs to happen in a new global britain is for us too. embed all selves in markets where there is

big population growth we talked about nigeria which could have a bigger population than the united states by 2030 we look at indonesia which is already north of 200000000 of vietnam a very. fast growing population nearly $100000000.00 will be $120000000.00 i think 520252038 philippines a similar burgeoning economy and that's where we have to learn the labor again of where we have to start selling product now if in order to support that activity we need a trade deal to give a certainty and in the relationship then of course we need to have that they won't be done overnight because they're not sort of off the shelf things you know what is a mad chicken in one place is not a sane chicken another you know we have things we don't want to take they have things that they don't take from us but so they're not as straightforward as the last but there are the there is there is a basis of

a framework and we countries like russia i mean there was a countries of britain sanctions and you britain sanctions china as well you know trade that there will be trade agreements frameworks i can't see that as being top of the list. can you i don't. know do i but you know i think that. clearly relationships with russia is a important thing for the future but i'm talking more about britain getting out much more in the on the global footprint in these a populations in the fall bigger than the european you. the tough go potential. thank you thank you after the break down british physicist reza pull davis exposes the symbiosis of cancer in everyday life and how bolton approaches a killing progress in cancer treatment cold as a ball going overboard to going underground.

the world is driven by a dream shaped by one person of those. who dares thinks. we dare to ask. anyone else to show seemed wrong why don't we all just don't call. me. yet to shape out these days to come to council and engage from an equal

betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart when you choose to look for common ground. and. i am. i am. welcome back b.m.a. have begun with threats to life on earth coming from war catalyzed by u.s. assassinations and climate change destruction seen across australia but some

scientists are asking not so much about the end of life on earth or even the origins of life on earth but what is life itself joining me is award winning professor paul davies whose new book the demon in the machine the hidden webs of information and solving the mystery of life is out for welcome to going underground so who are the demons of james clark maxwell well maxwell was a giant of theoretical physics lived in the 19th century where it's not very far from where we're sitting now at king's college in london unified electricity and magnetism and contributed enormously to the theory of heat and he came up with a weird idea in a letter to her friend it was just an idle thought that if there was some sort of tiny little being who could see individual molecules as they rushed around colliding with each other and could have some sort of shot a mechanism to manipulate where they went then without expending energy could accumulate all of the fast moving bollock your was ever here all the slow moving

molecules over there so this will get hotter than that and any competent engineer can tell you if you've got a temperature difference you can run an engine off it a heat engine and do work so max will seem to come up with a sort of the. better measure machine something where just by using the information of the molecular motions you could produce a source of work a type of fuel information as a type of fuel very radical ideas seem deeply paradoxical of the time mazing about this because then you use that to talk about the definition of life why do you think it is that we don't have a definition of life people do presumably what it is you say in the book when a mouse is dead you know it's 90 percent alive nobody can really say what life is or how it began and there are plenty of books about what life does but this is a book about what life is about living matter how does living matter differ from non-living matter no current scholarship is

a new explore that is it's about information yes so the key to understanding the difference between living and non-living and a unified these 2 great here is of science physics on the one hand of biology on the other is this concept called information but it's also an abstract concept and it's branch of science called information theory that's about 60 or 70 years old. and that treats information a little bit like the concept of energy we use energy in everyday life we talk about it in sort of colloquial terms but we also know it has a technical definition is an abstract quantity that can be passed from one system to another and it's always conserved something with information and we know that life is invested in information because d.n.a. for example is like the rulebook of life it's an instruction manual to build an organism but that's really just the start if we think about gene as

a set of instructions for something to happen building a protein for example genes coupled together to form complex networks that switch each other on and off information swirls around these networks information is. transfer between cells cell signal each other and then there's that great information process between areas that's probably the best example people can think of as biology vested in information and information processing so it's everywhere in biology but it's not there in physics when you think about you know what is an atom doing processing information well you know and that's and sort of sitting there in a collection of atoms. don't have anything like a purpose or goal and yet living organisms do somehow information is the glue that is going to unite the world of physics in the world of biology the causes as huge relevance for the treatment of cancer before i want to ask you about

it you retell it here story by yuri love's a big which is kind of relevant to this i think we use a kind of biologist fix a radio you might have to explain that which is why it's taken so long for us to get to where we are today that's a wonderful essay and the essence of this is that as we now understand it when you think of a of a cell it's really a collection of modules and functional components if we think less about the individual molecules more about the signals and the information flow inside the system. and that's exactly the sort of approach you would take with a radio now let me give an example the particular essay referred to a transistor radio and say you had all these components together and if you went wrong for example you had a distorted sound well how do you fix it and you wouldn't go about fixing it by

examining the atomic structure inside a transistor on something you would know that there are certain rules of radio rules with electronics and you could fix it a competent. radio technician. we'll be able to identify faulty component and rewire it'll tweak it. and fix it up if you try to understand what's gone wrong for example in cancer what's gone wrong well it's just a myth and on this particular gene this is a very an adequate picture that we have to try to understand it in terms of like electronics of modules wired together of circuits the around which information swells of these circuits can become distorted or unbalanced. when political biological theme especially most evangelical christians in the united states where i do you teach has been darwin if the if one of them picked the book at random and

opened it to see that you were costing down to or at least showing that you had doubts on that over 3 or 4000000000 years the human eye could have been created by doe we need a natural selection just tell us a little bit about that because you're such a previously saying that we need evolution is wrong now you say there is a there is a crucial problem yes and i think this is why they reckon i mean it's not wrong it's just slightly an adequate in that case case of gravitation we need einstein's general theory of relativity which is a refinement of that i think darwinian evolution his original theory has done wonders and so there's a whole chapter devoted to the new biology which is going beyond that and in particular the field of epi genetics as it's called which is those aspects of the g. which not captured at the genetic level but which are very very important for the way the system behaves these impulses that is now being widely recognised but this is

still a battle there's still some die hard reduction say that the ultra pure original darwinism is the only way to go and the difficulty you as you rightly mention in the united states is if you're. meeting with people who want their religious interpretation of what miracles to put it bluntly is that if you give the slightest impression while there's a problem about the original formulation of darwinism they pounce on the but this is of course to fulfill what theologians call the god of the gaps just because it's might be able to explain something but the fact that science can't explain it there's a gap in our understanding that doesn't mean we want to rush in with god to fill that gap we need a miracle we don't in america we need better suns a better understanding of you the very serious nature of this book and you leave it till the end after talking about information and what the definition of life is impractical to us is the treatment of cancer. we made off of the evangelical right

about their views but actually you seem to be suggesting that a lot of biologists to be believe in a miracle cure for cancer which is not the panacea that they should be looking for yes i think cancer research is a very good example of how over conservative thinking in biology has not led to lack of progress but the progress has been much less of a 2nd biggest killer. cancer is has also had to become the world's number one killer touches every family on the planet. and it's also the tragic of course some people are scared over than they want something to be done about it i think there's been this naive view that if we just throw enough money at the problem we'll discover a pill that wouldn't make it go away and that's never going to happen as we have to be much more subtle in our approach to treating cancer anybody would sinister ugly

when you read the book is us saying that using all this information 80 years deficient of life there is something intrinsic about life in cancer yet. it's the nature nature of multicellular life cancer is sort of britain into the whole. logic of life 2000000000 years ago there were just single celled organisms on this planet and a bacterium for example just has one imperatives replicate replicate replicate it's in effect immortal and then about one half 1000000000 years ago life organized itself rather differently than these some organisms did ensue multicellular collectives and what happens there in order organisms like selves is that individual cells give up their individual immortality they outsource that immortality to special sit germ cells likes eggs and sperm and they carry the information or legacy into the next generation and the individual so-called somatic

cells like cells in a skin and liver and so on they part of that contract is that they undergo programmed cell death toward a pup texas and cancer is a breakdown of that ancient contract in which the individual cells return to a bid for immortality is what's worrying about that is there's no going to be a magic pill for cancer there when each individual cancer has to be treated in that same way a general purpose pill to make it go away i think is is you're on a hiding to nothing you think a lot of the problem lynn is beamed capitalism the position of profit big pharmaceutical companies saying we've got to look for this pill because a budget a rich we become i think you're right that the funding model whether whether we call it capitalism because it is after all the rigs market anyway. all over conservative government investment in cancer i should should mention that i was

funded for 5 years by the u.s. national cancer institute spends $5000000000.00 a year on cancer research the perp when i look at how that spends a lot of it is. just spent on sort of same old same old mainstream research very little on imaginative new approaches and the approach of i'm outlining in the book . has received some funding but it's a sort of tiny fraction and so there is deep conservatism in the cancer research community. and i give you an example which relates directly to the whole profit business that of course. if you have some way of combating cancer like through diet or. another approach we've looked at is hyperbaric oxygen therapy which is pretty patients in 2 atmospheres of pure oxygen for a short period the some belief that. some evidence that this is

efficacious so one of the most efficacious and the cancer drugs is well known in the cancer community is aspirin but you know it's a free over the counter and so getting clinical trials for things like aspirin is not easy there have been some. but and will be will say this is. well it isn't that because well i believe it is visible davis thank you and that's it for the show would back on wednesday 50 years to believe a more moderate after becoming prime minister of libya a job thank you talk about social media don't forget to subscribe to our you trying . to. play. illegal.

play. play. flow play. play. play. play. play. play. play play. play. play. please. play. live. so. let's play

a. slow clay. player play and very well might continue watching us and see us. what politicians do. they put themselves on the line to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president and. want. to go right to be close it's like them before 3 of them or can't be good. interested always in the water how. they should.

as washington warms a rod on the steps up its pressure campaign of sanctions antigovernment protests continue in iran over the accidental downing of a passenger plane which killed everyone on board. human rights organizations cool out the e.u. infrastructure project in africa having the funds and driving what could be compared to modern day slavery. in the caribbean nation of 10 years since it was hit by a deadly earthquake that claimed the lives of more than 200000 people we hear from locals on how the country is still struggling to come to terms with the devastating tragedy.