very. difficult battle for dominic call it comes to fight it genuinely is in a different space to most of the businesses in that it's very difficult to. sack a civil servant it's very difficult to move them out of the civil service is he we had douglas cause well one of dominic cummings his close colleagues in that campaigning on the show who kind of said only cummings was a sort of genius i'm not sure the you know do you think he's up to the job i think he's a remarkable you know it's very clear sighted a very clear vision. the point about government though it isn't just about having ideas it's you've got to do the long strokes and it's like a rowing race you do a lot of this very early on to get speed minutes into this and this bit is not so easy for the likes of dominic cummings or for many others as well long strokes are going to be going to be needed after the 31st of january and what do you see as the significance of this date of the 31st of january because really some people could

say that is the date from which britain will be subject to all customs union and single market regulations from brussels and spurs berg and we will have no power whatsoever. as regards the regulations we now must know violet well a deal as you know for trade is going to be discussed i'm always amused by hearing politicians saying that they can do things within this timeframe all that time frame if the result will it will be done within the timeframe of 10 months i don't think businesses will forgive politicians if they don't get home with is. because it's stifling employment and stifling the country's stifling. activity and i'm not just talk about the u.k. i'm talking about many of the european countries will start and germany is. trade activity which is huge the united kingdom and it's a no brainer i mean we export hall for what we import to be given all i want to

that statistic sorry to interrupt you. you're in trouble go ahead but if you just take that statistic you would have kind of thought let's get this thing done because it's actually in our interest to have a very harmonious exit in germany quote we're going to hopelessly wrong when he said that dr johnson had hitched his his his ride was it to donald trump over the trade deal and that is why britain must support the united states on iran given johnson is actually doubled down on his support for the nuclear energy c.p.o. a agreement i think koeppen labor of got it wrong quite a lot on boris johnson they don't really understand and they've tried to portray him as another trump ears and he's actually a centrist. and i think. you know he's he's much more moderate than people think and that will probably be the tone of his coming to some extent but what you just

said about european multinationals c.e.o.'s perhaps and boards believing that we've got to get this done now because as you said e.u. british trade is such a huge component of their businesses and world trade. then they have the pennies drop with them and they're going to still fight it because european bureaucrats i think the president already laying it this is a very good point very very good point pen it penny suddenly dropped the trade at a business level but the european. governments brussels has been open jurors all the way through. and it will be interesting to see how much pressure they're bored by the leaders of the countries like macro merkel to quickly speed up what should be a very sensible trade if not know who knows what's going to happen then it could be

no deal which would be pretty disastrous for both parties but even more disastrous for europe but that it is still threatening yes but those really want you to look at they on that if you look at the german economy which is not growing it's going backwards it has been very reliant on motor industry never once from says oh you can't use german most manufactures but what what is being demonstrated in the next in the last 6 months to 12 months the slowdown an almost recession the german economy has been entirely due to the motor industry failing to sell enough cars if you see if you look at that alone how important the u.k. is to that motor industry then there will be significant pressures on the basic nif impressions from the child's need to make sure that she has strong trading relationships having been in business all my life the fact is the best type of people you can do business with is people who pay their bills on time. where the

contract is supported by a rule of law and where you have a free market economy now britain ticks all those boxes so we are a market that is incredibly desirable for all these countries but you say that the european commission is try. just sue the u.k. at the moment for billions of pounds for alleged fraud between 2030 to 2016 i don't know whether these legal cases you see is another delaying tactic and if as you say angela merkel is pulling the strings then why would the wonderland be saying the deadline as it stands makes will break that impossible of a brics a deal impossible already these procrastination. is going on there and on their own head be it in my view ok i've got to pull their finger out and get on with it well as you know they can threaten britain by a whole variety of ways what about the 3rd country deals with the european. through 3rd party deals all existing with the european union and the renewal of

those in the rule over of those for britain apparently japan is saying japanese companies will rule if we locate of course motor companies if there isn't no deal breaks it but that country treaties with the e.u. will not be permanently rolled over with a break so i find these things rather a paradox. in that japan supposedly makes these noises about. you know withdrawing the car industry and i'm not surprised they've shot a plant in swindon because the cars are not really a desirable car in the way they used to be in the old days but then they go and buy all or they then go and invest oh by a property and things like that but i don't see any signs of japan not being interested in doing a deal with u.k. that will be a job for the trade own voice because honda would probably disagree with you there but that is that of course like we're. telling you what must. live

on to live she says the the price of a new deal breaks it is a distant partnership with the e.u. is it a clean break breaks or chilling that she's loving there's more of this why boris johnson is such captivating. prime minister and leader is because he's positive. and some come out and say we can't do this and can't do that he comes out say let's get this done let's get that done and by and large he has done everyone said no you can't redo the deal with trees a may go up he went did it yet there was a border in the irish sea but it was very contrary to the rule if some but it's the rule but it's a far better deal the trees made it's a deal that was acceptable to the members of parliament and he had less of a majority in syria than she did a good politician is someone who says let's do this let's try and do this let's let's see what's possible that i've always said that why boris johnson would be

leader of this country's gives hope you expect trade always now to be going around the commonwealth which you have a specific interest in and all these countries to rapidly stud creating new frameworks of the british businesses can work with businesses in the developing world the point about trade and i'm sorry fun of turning my grandmother how to suck eggs but what about trade is that is activity. with trade you don't necessarily have to have a trade deal we've never had a trade deal with the united states our biggest single trading partner and our biggest relationship we've never had a trade deal with them you really need a trade deal where the rules of engagement between parties are not certain will there aren't similar rules of law about. where the relation can ship can take you and you need happens in developing country which happens definitely developing countries and you need to have a very clear picture of it what i see needs to happen in a new global britain is for us too. embed all selves in markets where there is

big population growth we talked about nigeria which could have a bigger population than the united states by 2030 we look at indonesia which is already north of 200000000 a vietnam a very. fast growing population nearly $100000000.00 will be $120000000.00 i think 520252038 philippines a similar burgeoning economy and that's where we have to learn the labor again of where we have to start selling product now if in order to support that activity we need a trade deal to give a certainty and in the relationship then of course we need to have that they won't be done overnight because they're not sort of necessarily off the shelf things you know what is a mad chicken in one place is not a sane chicken and another you know we have things we don't want to take they have things that they don't take from us but so they're not as straightforward as the

last but there are the there is there is a basic framework and we countries like russia i mean there was a countries of britain sanctions actually britain sanctions china as well you know trade that there will be trade agreements frameworks i can't see that as being top of the list can you. i don't know. but you know i think that. clearly relationships rusher is. saying for the future but i'm talking more about britain getting out much more on the global soap and these are populations. the. potential. thank you thank you for the great british visit reza poll davis exposes the symbiosis of cancer in everyday life and how modern approaches a killing progress in cancer treatment told us

a ball going overboard to going underground. my. painting was of a time about the same but it was i mean. that. one

when the one in the same. scene that i doing to him but i'm before. him but. you know now i'm body i'm not moved on. i'm going to fulfill the repeated purposes of politics to the people i promise to be you know we've all pots. you. pretty low. life.

pretty good bertha now you want to 1st crack that. no. no. balls be cut. the world is driven by a dream shaped by one person. thinks . we dare to ask.

welcome back the year may have begun with. threats to life on earth coming from war catalyzed by u.s. assassinations and climate change destruction scene of course australia but some scientists are asking not so much about the end of life on earth or even the origins of life on earth but what is life itself joining me is award winning professor paul davies whose new book the demon in the machine the hidden webs of information and solving the mystery of life is out for welcome to going underground who are the demons of james clark maxwell well maxwell was a giant of theoretical physics lived in the 19th century where it's not very far from where we're sitting now at king's college in london unified electricity and

magnetism and contributed enormously to the theory of heat and he came up with a weird idea in a letter to a friend it was just an idle thought that if there was some sort of tiny little being who could see individual molecules as they rushed around colliding with each other and could have some sort of shot a mechanism to manipulate where they went then without expending any energy could accumulate all of the fast moving bollock your was over here all the slow moving molecules over there so this will get hotter than that and any competent engineer can tell you if you've got a temperature difference you can run an engine off it a heat engine and do work so maxwell seem to come up with a sort of perpetual motion machine something where just by using the information of the molecular motions you could produce a source of work a type of fuel information as a type of fuel very radical idea simply paradoxical of the time well what's amazing about this book of course is then you use that to talk about the definition of life

why do you think it is that we don't have a definition of life people do presumably what it is you say in the book when a mouse is dead you know it's 90 percent alive nobody can really say what life is or how it began and there are plenty of books about what life does but this is a book about what life is about living matter how does living matter differ from non-living matter current scholarship. is and you explore that is it's about information yes so the key to understanding the difference in living and non-living and to unify these 2 great here is of science physics on the one hand the biology on the other is this concept called information but it's also an abstract concept and it's the branch of science called information theory that's about 60 or 70 years old. and that treats information a little bit like the concept of energy we use energy in everyday life we talk

about it in sort of colloquial terms but we also know it has a technical definition as an abstract quantity that can be passed from one system to another and it's always conserved something with information and we know that life is invested in information because d.n.a. for example is like the rulebook of life it's an instruction manual to build an organism but that's only just the start if we think about gene as set of instructions for something to happen building a protein for example genes coupled together to form complex networks that switch each other on and off information swirls around these networks information is transferred between cells signal each other and then there's that great information process between areas that's probably the best example people can think of as biology vested in information and information processing so it's everywhere in biology but it's not there in physics when you think about you know what is an atom

doing processing information well you know that some sort of sitting there in a collection of atoms. don't have anything like a purpose or goal and yet living organisms do somehow information is the glue that is going to unite the world of physics and the world of biology is as huge relevance for the treatment of cancer before i want to who. well let's go about it you retell it here story by yuri love's a big which is kind of relevant to this i think we use a kettlebell just fix a radio you might have to explain that which is why it's taken so long for us to get to where we are today that's a wonderful essay and the essence of this is that as we now understand it when you think of a of a cell it's really a collection of modules and functional components if we think less about

the individual molecules more about the signals and the information flow inside the system. and that's exactly the sort of approach you would take with the radio now let me give an example the particular essay referred to a transistor radio and say you had all these components together and if you went wrong for example you had a distorted sound well how do you fix it and you wouldn't go about fixing it by examining the atomic structure inside a transistor on something you would know that there are certain rules of radio rules with electronics and you could fix it a competent. radio technician would be able to identify 40 component and rewire it a tweak it and and fix it up if you try to to understand what's gone wrong for example in cancer what's gone wrong well it's just a me tayshaun on this particular gene this is a very inadequate picture that we have to try to understand it in terms of like

electronics of modules wired together circuits the around which information swells of these circuits can become distorted or unbalanced. when political biological theme especially most evangelical christians in the united states we're a i do you teach has been darwin if the if one of them picked the book. it rendered it open to to see that you were costing down to at least showing that you had doubts on that over 3 or 4000000000 years the human eye could have been created by doe we need that natural selection just tell us a little bit about the journey which obviously saying that we need evolution is wrong not you say there is a there is a crucial problem yes and i think this is why they reckon i mean it's not wrong it's just slightly and adequate in that case case of gravitation we need einstein's general theory of relativity which is a refinement of that i think darwinian evolution his original theory has

done wonders and so there's a whole chapter devoted to the new biology which is going beyond that and in particular the field of epi genetics as it's called which is there is aspects of the g. which not captured the and i think level but which are very very important for the way the system behaves these so that is now being widely recognised but this is still a battle there are still some die hard reductionist series say that the ultra pure original darwinism is the only way to go and the difficulty you as you rightly mentioned in the united states is if you're dealing with people who want their religious interpretation of what miracles to put it bluntly is that if you give the slightest impression while there's a problem about the original formulation of darwinism they pounce on the but this is of course for theologians call the god of the gaps just because it's might

be able to explain something but the fact that science can't explain it there's a gap in our understanding that doesn't mean we want to rush in with god to fill that gap that we need a miracle we don't in america we need better suns a better understanding of you the very serious nature of this book and you leave it till the end after talking about information and what the definition of life is impractical to the tree. and of cancer. we made off with the evangelical right about their views but actually you seem to be suggesting that a lot of biologists to really believe in a miracle cure for cancer which is not the panacea that they should be looking for yes i think cancer research is a very good example of how over conservative thinking in biology has not led to lack of progress but the progress has been matched the. second biggest

killer of cancer is has also had to become the world's number one killer touches every family on the planet. and it's a city tragic of course some people are scared of it and they want something to be done about it i think there's been this naive view that if we just throw enough money at the problem we'll discover a pill that will just make it go away and that's never going to happen as we have to be much more subtle in our approach to treating cancer and greenwood sinister ugly when you read the book is you're saying that using all that information later years diffused like there was something intrinsic about life in cancer yes it's the nature it's the nature of multicellular life cancer is sort of written into the whole. logic of life 2000000000 years ago there were just single celled organisms on this planet and a bacterium for example just has one imperative replicate replicate replicate it's

in effect immortal and then about one half 1000000000 years ago life organized itself rather differently than these some organisms did ensue multicellular collected some what happens there in order organisms like ourselves is that individual cells give up their individual immortality they outsource that immortality to special sit germ cells likes eggs and sperm and they carry the information. legacy into the next generation and the individual so-called somatic cells like cells in a skin and liver and so on they part of that contract is that they undergo programmed cell death toward a pump prices and cancer is a breakdown of that ancient contract in which the individual cells return to a bid for immortality because what's worrying about that is there's no going to be a magic pill for cancer there when to each individual cancer has to be treated in its own way a general purpose pill to make it go away i think is is you're on

a hiding to nothing if you think a lot of the problem is being capitalism the position of profit big pharmaceutical companies saying we've got to look for this pill because of budget a rich we become i think you're right that the funding model whether whether we call it capitalism because it is after all the rigs market anyway. all over conservative government investment in cancer i should should mention that i was funded for 5 years by the us national cancer institute spends $5000000000.00 a year on cancer research the when i look at how that spends a lot of it is just spent on sort of same old same old mainstream research very little on imaginative new approaches and the approach of i'm outlining in the book . has received some funding but it's a sort of tiny fraction and so there is deep conservatism in the cancer research

community. and i give you an example which relates directly to the whole profit business of course. if you have some way of combating cancer like through diet or. another approach that we've looked at is hyperbaric oxygen therapy which is pretty patients in 2 atmospheres of pure oxygen for a short period. the some belief that. some evidence that this is efficacious so one of the most efficacious anti cancer drugs is well known and the cancer community is aspirin but you know it's virtually free over the counter. getting clinical trials for things like aspirin it's not easy there have been some . but and little people say this is. it isn't there because well i believe it is reservoir davis thank you and that's it for the show would back on wednesday 50 years to the eve of war moghadam becoming prime minister of libya

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you know world's big partners through a lot and conspiracy it's time to weigh more than ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door. and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. on this edition of crossfire we conduct a post mortem of the recent us around conflict what has changed in what bodes for the future issues the mainstream corporate media refuse to discuss.

this hour's headlines stories the leaders held libya's warring factions are in moscow for a cease fire talks brokered by russia for its hope that the nation's rival administrations will sign an agreement on shoes that we've got live reaction coming up. as the u.s. hits a round with another round of sanctions the islamic republic faces a 2nd day of domestic protests over its accidental ukrainian interplay. e.u. funds to boost infrastructure in east africa and prevent immigration to europe is in the firing line for driving modern day slavery we spoke with a human rights watch representative.