now imagine are tense here we're going underground on day 2 of us president donald trump's impeachment trial in the u.s. senate even as the man himself rubbed shoulders with the billionaires of dallas coming up on the show we often will trump's lawyer alan dershowitz what is the actual point of the impeachment trial and we go to some of the 2000 richest to own more than 5000000000 people on earth put together

a gathering to talk about poverty in this was a bus from the b.b.c. to the monarchy what's fueling melt downs in the british establishment we are privy councillor and former u.k. home office minister norman baker all the more coming up in today's going underground but 1st let's go straight to donald trump's impeachment trial in the u.s. senate joining me now via skype from miami is one of his lawyers professor alan dershowitz who will be defending the president in the senate alan thanks so much for joining us again i'm going underground i know you're really busy what with the trial arguably even more important the defending president joe is what's going to be happening in jerusalem tomorrow putin macro rivlin pence pelosi prince of wales all gathering in jerusalem headed next week 75th anniversary of the russian liberation of auschwitz what does it mean to you that remember it. well i lost many members of my family. in fact and in other parts of europe i'm very proud of the fact that my grandfather who was very poor helped to rescue 28 members of our

family from the czech republic by creating jobs for them in new york and getting them visas just on the eve of the holocaust so it has great great meaning for me and if i weren't involved in the matter i'm involved in i might very well have gone to jerusalem for this commemoration. well on to this trial then of course some democrats are saying why isn't trump being tried for increasing xenophobia and the semitic attacks are up in the united states for the debilitation of children increasing the numbers on obama drone killing let alone arming saudi arabia against yemen what is this ukrainian case that he's being impeached has been impeached for anyway well the framers of our constitution want to distinguish our system from the british system in britain you can get rid of a prime minister simply by a vote of non-confidence in the united states we have an elected president it's a republic not a parliamentary democracy and there are specified grounds for impeachment treason

bribery other high crimes and misdemeanors so even if you think terrible the president sent a terrible job and all the things you listed none of them a grounds for impeachment there are grounds perhaps for not voting for him when he comes up for reelection but impeachment is very specific and the framers were very clear that they wanted to clearly define and very particular criteria before a duly elected president could be. removed and the ukrainian matter is not among impeachable offenses neither is abuse of power or obstruction of congress ok well the house of representatives obviously disagrees you with you on that but what about these other matters why is it this particular one and i should say it relates to joe biden's son i understand and you want joe biden to be president instead of trump what exactly does the case what what will he be doing in this case because to many around the world arguably in those countries being it by u.s.

drones they can't understand why it's this that the house of representatives tried to impeach destroy donald trump's presidency with. personal object no position and who should be the next president i want to wait to hear who gets nominated i've known several of the candidates including joe biden for a long time the reason at the others are not designated as that all american presidents have done it bill clinton use drones of barack obama use drones obviously. george h. george w. bush use drones those are parts of american foreign military ossie that are appropriately subject to criticism but not impeachment impeachment requires treason or bribery or other crimes a kin to treason bribery which are designated as high crimes and misdemeanors and none of these are high crimes in fact the original the original designate was cry crimes against the united states that was taken out by the committee on style but

even hypothetically if a president were to commit war crimes against another country that would raise a very interesting question about whether that would be impeachable had never thought of that before so you deserve kudos for raising that issue but i don't know what the answer is well no doubt you're a big fan of a us mainstream media like m s n b c c.n.n. and right on what do you think of the fact they're playing this clip endlessly of you in 1908 saying that seemingly to contradict what you're saying that they have no crime meeting being committed only the corruption of office needing to him and committed my main objection is that it shows me really with very bad hair. which talking about something else 22 years old i've gotten a lot smarter and i think a lot better looking over the last 22 years obviously back then the issue in the clinton impeachment was not whether

a crime is required because he was charged with a crime it was whether perjury is a high crime and when i made the statement back the. and i had done the research on whether a crime is required in the trump matter of course that's the central issue so i've gone back and read all the congressional debates all the constitutional debates the record of the trial previously impeached presidents and i've come to the conclusion now today which i think is correct that criminal behavior can do treason bribery is required so i know better today than i did 22 years ago but even explained things illicitly on all these mainstream channels how are you going to defend the president but fundamentally under the constitution what what's the actual point of this process given that the senate will acquit donald trump well i've been doing trials and appeals for 55 years and i never can predict the outcome of

a case i mean once things happen if witnesses a call if new evidence comes in you never know what the outcome is going to be to the trial manager johnson nobody knew what the outcome was going to be until the last vote was cast so i'm not going into this with the confidence that an acquittal is assured though it seems likely more difficult this time when electronic devices are not being allowed in the senate and they think to be all these strictures on these old white middle class sentences that are going to have to listen to hours of testimony well we have fortunately we've changed now when we have african-american senators we have senators of different ethnic backgrounds we have women senators it's not nearly as as white male as it was at the time of the founding we're moving in the right direction the senators are simply going to have to pay attention and listen i'm concerned about the. arguments going to 2 in the morning i certainly

don't want my argument to be scheduled when people are half asleep. and so i hope at least my argument will be when senators can pay attention as i'm sure they'll want to because they want to hear all sides of the issue of course in normal trials jory isn't of us we swayed by the media will the media have any impact on the senators as they decide on which way to vote on the they are ready the media ready has had considerable impact and voter constituency attitudes will have obviously a an impact this is not like a usual jury trial with a jury sometimes a sequestered in is not allowed to hear outside sources hear the senators will obviously be part of the reporting in the real world so i think we'll see a lot of influences on the senators including electoral influences and you're prepared for any smoking gun from the d.n.c.

that they haven't as yet as shown as regards trumps. making deals as a quid pro quo for doing it on joe biden's son. well i'm not involved in the day to day evidentiary aspects of the case i will argue constitutional issues which go back to the 18th century so i don't expect a lot of changes in the constitutional arguments that i'm making but obviously be very in tune to any new evidence or any new issues that come up as it bothered you the way people are attacking you in the united states establishment media and across us culture for defending donald trump accusing you of all kinds of things for being his defense attorney i'm used to that i've developed a thick skin i represented o.j. simpson i represented close my mule oh michael tyson michael milken. you can't be a criminal defense lawyer without getting abuse i think

a back to the days of john adams who was horribly abused in the united states for defending the soldiers accused of what's called the boston massacre and he did an excellent job defense lawyers do that and so i expect to be abused criticized and we've lost friends over this issue and that's too bad but it really tells you who your real friends are when people will stick with you even though they disagree with you and many of my friends have done that others have not and should just say again back to the commemoration happening in jerusalem you don't accept the criticism that you shouldn't be working for trump because he is behind what the defamation league is blaming huge rise in at least some of the crimes across the united states across the across europe as well i don't believe that for one second i think that the promoters of anti-semitism or people like jeremy corbin on the left and neo nazis on on the right i don't think that donald trump who recognized

jerusalem and recognized the golan heights and generally has had. very good policies toward israel is responsible for the rise of anti-semitism he certainly not responsible the rise of anti-semitism and hungry in poland and other parts of eastern europe so i think it's a false accusation in any event i don't pick who i represent or what arguments i make based on how i feel about a particular client's politics i supported bill clinton i would have supported hillary clinton had she been elected in impeached so i based my decisions on my making constitutional arguments on the constitution not politics or friendships but of course the golan heights on international law is syrian and jerusalem under international law is disputed you know think it's precisely these pro israel policies of trouble that have created or of inspired more of the seventy's and

certainly anti semitic conspiracy trapz absolutely not i think anti-semitism is caused by anti semites it's not caused by pro israel policies i also think that the issues of the go on and jerusalem are more complex and international law is very unclear on these issues and i'm myself very clear pressure day as if those actions it's not clear to me i'm teaching it for many many years and i've written 6 books on the subject so it's not clear to me there's no serious claim that jerusalem doesn't belong to israel it was illegally captured by jordan in the 1948 war after the united nations decided that that should be a internationalized city and and the jordanians sees that as they seize the west bank illegally and as the egyptians seize the guise of illegally so it's much more complex and i'm glad the president did what he did and just finally where exactly a month away from june in a songe of wiki leaks is extradition hearing to the united states of course the

defended the assads you going to put words in terms there to stop the rest of the extradition of julian a songe absolutely not it's not would not be appropriate for me to use my current role on behalf of of anyone else or know the answers i will not do that out as a right thank you. thank you after the break the world's richest different from us we go to the mountains of devils to speak to the c.e.o. of oxfam india who claims the richest one percent have more than twice the wealth of 7000000000 people and u.k. prime minister boris johnson has 10 meetings with. prince harry on this week's broken news. going underground.

join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest on the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. welcome back joining me now to go through some the week's top stories is pretty councillor and former u.k. home office minister norman bay good omen thanks for coming back on the new year and figured the french protests the revolution on the streets of paris what do you do that's the book i wonder you know the royal family to it and of course the media this week is obsessed by lloyd's of america. america britain average of just by their own family prince harry powerful media is why he's stepping away while he is i think partly because of that i think you had a tough time with his mother he saw his mother went through i think he's not like the fact that the subjects are hostile coverage far more than kate's has largely

because she's independent minded i think and he isn't willing to take it so he wants to opt out to get it's quit a soap opera we have to admit there are things we can't say in on television programs here from britain about this because of legal constraints what do you think the whole story has shown us about media reaction and media analysis of the powerful well the media has an idol and the royal family at all well to be honest with you they interfere and inject themselves into private matters when they shouldn't do we know all about prince george liking camels or horses or whatever you want which is nobody's business you should leave them alone but they don't look at what seriousness about the royal family to my book does which is look at the finances to look at the special legal arrangements to look at the he's not doing the harry is renouncing all the money from the taxpayer he's no earthly use not announcing he's keeping h.r.h. you don't using it to reach but he's keeping it that means he will be able to call on public funds for his travel for his security which by the way will go through

the roof now he's a problem that's pretty more money in prince harry now that we did before i don't top of that of course he's pay money back to front more cottage but what about the money which is given to him by richard prince charles prince charles will use a duchy of cornwall there's some mediæval there. enjoyment to pay money to harry he will then claim as an expense because he does that sort of thing he will then have a lower tax liability so we're end up paying higher by the backdoor i'm sure. watching meanwhile that other great bit of the british establishment let's look at this from the day that is the b.b.c. stitched up boris johnson director general lord whole quits early so prime minister can't choose who takes over well isn't the reason director general of the b.b.c. yes is that the reason he's gone or is a different reason is he just fed up as it been too much hassle what was the point of lord wall i mean allister milne he was fired over the spy satellite program on the b.b.c. best available yes greg dyke fired for telling the truth coverage of dr kelly the

death of dr kelly in the iraq war why did they want to get rid of him well i mean it doesn't do what get rid of i think he wants or he wants to stay on notice i'm not sure that's want to stay on i think he may want to go because he just tired and b. which is a rough time over equality of pay between men and women there's also the issue that if he does go as a headline suggests early before the chairman the new chairman is appointed then the new these just in chairman can appoint his successor whereas if he stays on to the new chairman comes in and burris you put a patsy in as chairman who wouldn't choose somebody unsuitable to b.b.c. because otherwise patsies don't tend to be director general of the b.b.c. it had to be less of a patsy than you might imagine but it's very important to support the b.b.c. stands up and be independent with the government the majority of a taylor about we can opposition in disarray and we go to a press which is by and large hostile to to honest reporting of politics so we need to b.b.c. and therefore it's very important to this post is filled by somebody with character

and integrity. playing what they want to ask me all about is it really is going to the national gallery let's go do this meeting in berlin boris johnson tells vladimir putin no thaw in u.k. or russia relations. the souls bury at sac well of course you don't know whether that's true or not the weather is speed and i think the british should all go home and put out a statement repeated endlessly across the british me exactly so we don't know whether it's true or not i mean what what this may be is an attempt to say to the electorate at large i'm tough on being tough on russia where is the truth on these might be as i think it is that both sides are trying to normalize relations again after a very difficult period look i mean the u.k. is leaving the e.u. we'll lose all our friends over there we don't care for we've got a maniac in the white house or you know who's a long term self we can't afford to alienate everything will come to in the world and actually i'm not defending russia because russia done some bad things is going around i believe killing people in london is going to run invading places like crimea but actually you know morality is

a bunch of broken for you what about what the us has done in iraq what about the fact of the chinese have locked up $1000000.00 we goes the debris of the chinese government denies that well there's a game from one sort and we've gone there we give the russia denies the crimea allegation and murdering although you had said you might be writing your next book on this group well i believe you don't have that as well as there's a whole lot of unanswered questions that need to be sorted out but i mean look i mean i can't let you know where but that you know there is footage there is video footage unphotographed of these camps in china where a 1000000 we could have been locked up it's alleged food you know that it is quite good look if you drove us here by the way your electorate which is slightly less photograph of prince andrew with his hand around that woman these are photographs exist and all that we get outside the country will tell you that's happening you know china is behaving in a reprehensible way so let's let's be done even about this let's pick up all morality across the world evenly rather than pick your individual countries ok but the good idea to outwardly say these sorts of really we're not it's here russia's foreign affairs committee calls dean causative claim the u.k.

was a nuclear target for hosting us missiles and could be hit within minutes well as with us true but i mean what robert johnson the government should say in my view is look we have difficulty with russia we don't agree we have to leave done but we did have a normal relationship with the major crimes in the world so. we'll work on that basis but we're not reserved we're not pulling back from what we've said that's ok we're like well boris johnson was also posting here one white oh the alleged death squad link you gave you backed coup leader john bolton is woman national security advisor tweeted this madeira tells the washington post he wants to go to united states the only negotiations we should have with the douro are what he wants for lunch on the plane that will take him to permanent exile in cuba or russia viva venezuela this is rather a this is rather arab league into permanent exile in cuba or russia i mean it's just typical american arrogance to be honest boris johnson was with one way though apparently some room is saying that he may be negotiating the gold reserves of venezuela the venezuelan government wants back and one way to go who by all

accounts done that once a border man is whether there were little to do or has done a great deal to record country i mean at the place of mass people are starving to try to leave the country so i can't defend him as a leader that may wreck the country out of exactly should put sanctions on the secular we shouldn't try to rid the country you know it's for the venezuelans to sort out not for us to get involved ok but why didn't the meeting one gray don't you think a lot of it is about what trump and the united states is leveraging britain for get a american trade deal post there was a suggestion in the german papers that unless the european countries germany france and britain and probably russia and china as well got tougher on iran then the car industry in germany would see 25 percent surcharge on it simply imports into america it's export for america you know that's what trump dollars he plays he's unconnected things together and you know what it is blackmail britain has to do what the united states tells them to or what face the end of its order well do

in the uk the logical thing to do of course is to have close relations with the like minded countries in the european union but sadly we're going the opposite direction you know in baghdad thank you well john bolton will have presumably been watching closely as u.s. . donald trump made a speech at the world economic forum in davos yesterday amidst u.s. threats to nations around the world trump bragged about his economic record without mentioning massive inequality both in the u.s. and all around the world joining me now from davos is c.e.o. of oxford india. thank you so much for coming on to tell me about time took care of the report the opening line says that economic inequality is out of control it is absolutely out of control as in you just look at the data the data tells us that the bananas have more wealth than 4600000000 people in this world and this is important that we all sort of now juxtapose this figure with 50 percent of the

global population living with 5.5 dollars a day or less and that's pretty much living in poverty conditions so sadat's the stark inequality we're looking at but let me also say that this is not happening by chance it's clearly a rigged system an economic system which is tilted in favor of that it which makes the rich richer and the poor continue to live in poverty and if you look at the protests around the world that people are not willing to accept these levels of fini quality and we need to end the billionaire it's quite noisy there in davos behind you in the conference in switzerland what's it like when you tell delegates there at davos this week about what you just said i mean surely a natural outcome of society is the name to be meritocratic absolutely as the people gathered here are people who benefit from this big nomic system and they must really look at the larger world outside anyway quickly tell you about

a woman from india she wakes up every morning i name is which are they we had 3 am walks with 3 kilometers to get water for the family then goes and gets 4 door send children to school. just cooking cleaning washing and then goes to a construction site where she's underpaid she works for 1718 hours a day and she still does not get the minimum wage so this is also the katie kaname that we are highlighting in our report the billionaires here should at least stop doing harm stop tilting policies in their favor on the other hand states need to take decisive action insure everybody pays the fair tax we have investments in public services and people get a living wage yes we're actually speaking to the indian high commissioner to london about poverty but your report is quite in just sectional despite appearing to be a class war you claim the 22 men have more wealth than all the women of africa you

mentioned public services boris johnson sees private investment as a key to african investment despite of course of the alleged scandals regarding mining and workers' rights how do you see privatization and the private sectors being key in solving the inequality problem you've identified thank you for bringing in the gender dimension let me just you know one data. economy which women and girls do which is looking after children elderly the sick taking care of the households is $10.00 trillion dollars and willing and this is 3 times the global take industry so that's the level of exploitation of women and girls that we're looking at and it's fairly clear that the private sector has an important role in the future of the globe in terms of ensuring that they're not doing any harm but i think it's also very critical to ensure that the public services are done by the

state so whether it's education health care we should not be substituting these fundamental services basic needs and basic rights by the private sector. so as to why things have got so much worse and why they're getting worse i mean is it a function of the culture of countries the politics of countries and if you talk to the one percent which has twice the wealth of 7000000000 people according to your your report they're the ones of course in power as regards politics and media and culture if you're talking about the politics across cultures i would say yes it does matter but the politics of greed the politics of billionaires is pretty much cutting across national boundaries and cultural boundaries and that's what we're looking at it's the economic system that we need to fundamentally change we do not

need an economic system which is favoring the rich and then we i think what's also critical particularly was this to recognize that economic inequality the obscene economic inequality we see is one face of the same coin which is also resulting in the climate emergencies that we see around us you see debates about social services in advanced so-called advanced nations often talk about the carrot and stick useful to have a needy poor is a warning to the poor that they must work harder do you think that is the level of debate where things have gone badly wrong i would completely disagree that your talking of when we're talking of access to food access to water access to sanitation access to education we would really then see that as if it's given out as a dollar it's certainly not at all it's

a fundamental right and it's not something that a new demand is being made it's been part of. a crow bill compaq's from 948 starting from you know sort of the creation of human rights and i think any decent society. ensure these basic minimums to every citizen of their own countries i know . by 2025 which is not they would be out on 2400000000 people living without access to water and that's because of the climate emergency that be looking at well how well did donald trump speech go down at the dubbo summit sorry i was not good this speech not be able to i mean thank you. that's it for the show will be back on saturday with india's i commissioned to britain is india's bricks china celebrates the new year. social media to get to subscribe.

to one of the best charts greatest charts i've really been studying for years i don't know exactly how we're going to get into this place right here at the top it's the money velocity chart. the money velocity chart and we're going to be getting into that. 5. i mean. i'm. not. buying.

this hour's headlines stories award winning journalist glenn greenwald. charged with cyber crimes in brazil his role in reporting on a high profile corruption scandal in the country the case how strong condemnation worldwide. experts call for a probe into allegations the saudi crown prince was involved in the king of the phone of billionaire. the. washington post journalist jamal khashoggi. this killed by a school. psychologist designer of cia torture techniques in the wake of 911 just the following.