no welcome to you so visionaries me sophie shevardnadze all sorts of bizarre forms buildings made of my shrooms modern architecture pushing the boundaries of our imagination and looking into well life might be like in the future well today i'm joined by our tax loss of her director of architects patrick. patrick schumer her welcome to the show it's great to have you with us. so i'll start with the father. skyscrapers louis sullivan said that form follows function and then there is osgar name mary or that said that form solves beauty so i was wondering which fear is closer to your own.

sort of close but just curious to know. who coined the phrase which later on was the mantra of modernism office stripped of functionalism was actually the most on date of all architects there was a final up with the also this or flowering of an incredibly on late the rich and virtuous all mentation that's the. irony of the history of architecture but i don't believe in. form follows function as a design principle but i do believe in. that form. sustains and supports social functionality but as for designers as a method i don't believe that and i believe very much like austin in my beauty so i

know that you want sad and architects should be able to understand what is happening now and predict what kind of architecture people will need in the future and that in essence means and an architect needs to be not just an engineer but a futurist as well in some sort of way so which one of those do you love more in yourself and does the engineer and the future is sometimes come into conflict with each other a much more futurist so i make a distinction between architecture and engineering architecture. driving innovation in the realm of social functionality spaces are for me frame framing social interaction and communication are themselves communications and the engineer is the living the technical feasibility to make these. beautiful spaces of engagement real in the material world but we are conceptualizing this we are thinking about how we want to talk and count each other in spaces to be and to have interaction

processes unfolding and that's where beauty comes in as well as spaces which appeal to us which also signal to us the situation and in a way beauty architecture beauty signifies social functionality so it's not the opposite of function it's some kind of. sensuous messaging and understanding and communication of the function of the space the character of the space comes through its formal 'd expression and if it's a beautiful space means that the space that should be good for us so we have an intuitive grasp of what is good for us the good food but also a good space so way you speak you see it's a form of knowledge yeah and the way you speak patrick is and then that illustration of the fact that you've got a ph d. in philosophy so i wonder i wonder how losses in

architecture go together how do they mesh together very well i just want to add one more phrase so the perception of beauty is also an emotional intelligence so we've learned that these are cognitive processes yes philosophy. go together like philosophy goes together with every discipline at its front tier the patel going to want to push forward they always touch philosophy because it fundamentally questioning the myth the underlying principles and purposes of of a discipline and that happens in every discipline soul philosophy touches all these disciplines at the front of innovation so is your new style which is called parametric citizen in architecture you're saying it's ever threat to new global concept which in compas is everything from urban design to fashion now for dummies

like me who doesn't have a degree in philosophy explain in simple words what is it exactly and why is it revolutionary ok because it's the style of our epoch it every element of architecture or a new design becomes soft plastic malibu variable and adaptive to the many different contingencies and variance which are complex social world the months and calls for and there's a space also on new computational design technologies where we can model simulate and through algorithms political rate these forms but also we can now execute them through robotic publication and 3 d. printing is cetera so both on the level of what the world demands in terms of its complex. new dynamic life forms and the variability of human interactions and

ways of living and on the technical translation side the possibility of doing that through new technologies that means we must be generating a totally new build environment to be true to our time and this goes through the world of artifacts as well as through architecture interior fashion include it's the style for the computation. it's for the knowledge of college so if you look by computation exactly the point of my 2nd question so that parametrize ism is a reaction to time and technology that we are surrounded with right so it is moving away from the ridge it forms rigid zoning it's all about fluidity says creating a free form building all the possible ways is a help of a computer that's the virtual city of. fast. information processing and construction which only machines will afford

us that's what the style is based on so it will only intensify in the near future we hope sim being a futurist in a way how long do you think a power metric system will last in a 21st century ok there were there the kind of predictability of the future as it's. not understood what i know is that in order for a new shift to another style to happen that's not something subjective not doesn't depend on a creative genius that depends on the conditions of societal life and material production. shifting once more i can see one possibility on the horizon which might make a big impact namely if. interaction in virtual spaces until communication takes over sole much of our life that we no longer have to engage

in real space in cities which at the moment we're living in as you are concentration of some of the native and gauged and we still congregate in work spaces and social spaces as long as this happens on the new level of dynamism complexity will have power mattresses and. if life dematerialize is where we can become stationary and only interacts with communication system then the game is out something else will happen which has no name yet how can i see and what do you make of the so-called by your architecture that seems to be the trend lately there's this american israeli architect mary oxman experimenting with like the protein found in milk which can be as hard to cement do you think we'll see traditional concrete and steel and glass the way to like eco materials i think that's partly possible i mean some of these experiments of a small scale might move into. fashion and product design

1st but that was also the case with promises and to some extent so i don't know how much of these experiments on there is another scale but i'm very interested in it and i'm interested in. logic a process is biological engineering genetic engineering as well as computational evolution and genetic coding which is more than a malodorous to biological process so there's a very strong interest and some of the gee between the science of biology and the science of artificial life and intelligence so when spoken a bit about the future and the way you see it in your field let me ask. things about you do you see your. self as an artist as an artist can always say you know i don't really care what others say this is my vision and create whatever he or she wants as an architect have the right to enjoy this level of freedom i mean it's not

like a book that you read and you can put away for you build something it's pretty much there forever. that would lead to. art and architecture of a different the feed of the artist the artist of the reeling explorer us reckless potentially idiosyncratic. self-indulgent to the nth degree but there generate mutations innovations material which might or might be useful most of it might not be useful so are the 3 relating field of experimentation and also speculative writer science fiction writers they can have a go and fantasize i think this is background material this is a role resource which then architects can work with but we have a different. it was a full responsibility the actually creating social spaces for the many and to be using big resources of and to put nurses investors behind them stand save

us so we need to make sure that the resources spent on hans life and the not just. thrown away. with delusions illusions fantasies which which which don't. really impact i mean we want to live. for everybody to become more prosperous i'm talking about material freedom and prosperity for all that's what vision is faced on the news another panellist pushing that but in the end it's the real world you want to control and make beautiful after the break right now hold your thoughts there we'll be back shortly talking to patrick's him or her architect and philosopher director of zaha hadid architects discussing the architecture of the future state.

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the woods yet i did a. good show gotta move this because i'm listening to the columbia to ensure. the last. is not so much of a. you know. we're back with patrick schumacher architecture and so loss of our director of zaha hadid architects talking about how architecture is shaping our way of life so

here's the world that we are having 2 words rising population density soaring glenn prices and i don't know like flying cars mean that the cities of the future will grow vertically right not horizontally what's your take yes absolutely i'm very excited about the new transfer possibilities drones autonomous cars i believe also love walkability in the. walking walking. through the spaces and that's where we can really have much more interaction also visual transparency i believe in density i don't want these kind of. distribution i think we should pull together in the high dense environment and we see that tendency we see cities grow this and when they saw us and we can build up high and we have generated some interesting to policies. as a holo so that on the inside the thousands of people who congregate in

a tower can have into visibility see each other communicate which is of a and then they also have big windows of the outside so from tower to tower there could be bridges and communications so it's a 3 dimensional web of interaction of communication that's was the with all the new moon. means and modes of transportation but also active traveling meaning cycling walking. pond so let's talk about about ideology a bit more when i step into it's a cathedral right there is high and there is lie and the idea is that a human is supposed to feel the ground there of god there is napoleon's imparja texture and it's all about the grandeur of empire or like even if you take the dictator architecture of the thirty's right it's all about being monumental uniform like the ideology behind it does contemporary architecture have an ideology behind

it. ernie yes i think there is an ideology i mean i certainly promote one which is the ideology of freedom of and upon earth ship of individuality and offs health organization participation so not so much. centralization. larch hierarchies command and control but much more bottom up process for many of you have kind of swarm intelligence collective intelligence very body is self directed in their work and pursuits but then through the communication process through market processes as well we have of filtration and selection and a social order which establishes itself more much of an emergent on a bottom up and the cities should express that that's what i call the network society as well so we are networking. laterally and we have a lot of self initiative now the spaces for that i think would throw the us is this

kind of wet off balloting and we don't want to kind of windswept empty plaza with an access and the monument we want to kind of by as an urban bus of streets filled with events with sleep theater with with spaces with conference centers maybe i love going to conferences and debates and such events like the battle of ideas in london at the barbican for instance these are the kind of things with we've been thriving on gives us ideas empower us making connection with other people to set up projects we're not going to work for 30 years in one monotonous routine we're continuously reinventing ourselves the network society and the spaces they have their own beauty they have their own maybe i wouldn't call it monumental a tea but but they're thrilled and rebuilding these spaces actually build one in. in recently in beijing interior urban isn't big atriums we're actually doing one for a sperm bank in moscow you have done that office building in moscow where there's

a big vertical space of congregation with bridges with balconies where it's all about seeing and being seen making connections being part of that process of that self organizing buzzing process of innovation prosperity generation we all can be creative in our we all creators in this new knowledge economy because the physical work is done by robots or by software services and we can reprogram the robots or we can upload the new software basically daily so this physical culture of production can absorb an enormous amount of innovation so we can all be innovative and we do that by coming together in these cities of knowledge of the exchange and creation i heard. one say that many cities around the world are overly obsessed with the past do you see this also as a bad thing. and there is some of that what i don't like is if cities become museum

was or when the the center of a city becomes a museum slash retail more saw and when museums are looked at as tourist traps rather than of creative industry communication so i see there's a tension. with that but i also do think that some of these stories quarters of our cities actually they have a robustness week and and the density which we need again so if you compare the 1950s of the last century. to what we need now actually in 19th century city which was more of walkable high density city office more to the contemporary life then the urban is of the 950 s. that's why when this paradigm off orders them off to modern control and distribution collapsed the rediscovery of the urban centers to start with centers made sense but now we have to build on top we don't have to be shy in subverting

and evolving this but. we can also within that keep a story for me the best example of this is the city of london what i mean here is not the west not westminster which is quite still and frozen up but the city of london do regional medieval town which is now this come flooding financial center where you have the historical assets these little jewels of a medieval spaces and then on to that fantastically rich and high value cluster of towers and spaces of communication for it for today for the financial sector in particular that's a fantastic model so architects today strike me as progress truman when i listen to you especially with new materials ways of thought novelty like modern artists

however if i don't like a painting i don't look at it like i sat different with architecture one more time . for instance i'm forced to look at 2 of them on 4 reber until i die or he gets demolishing you know do you feel that architects have this responsibility like politicians in a way to take the i static sense of the public into account. i don't know i believe the. architects of the sponsibility to express and deliver the spaces which they understand would and productivity and life and yes there will be this taste to be taken into account. but i believe that. usually. and we are in this sense in this game of a static rejuvenation and expression we're artists and experts i think we can

guide and lead the market and i mean even and upon earth like steve jobs and many other of the great entrepreneurs they didn't do market research what is people think they need they have an intuition of what could make life better and then charge forward and deliver and then the. validation comes afterwards and it's also a great artist to see me do something provocative and outrageous like crystal when he wrapped the german rice it seemed like an absurd and surreal thing which in all the general population was expected to hate but everybody adored it and thought it was a wonderful occasion and became a laugh fest around it so even on a few aesthetic grounds but also in architecture there's more to it the look and feel to give something expressive what goes on there and what if what goes on there

is life announcing and beautiful as a human experience then we will associate that look and feel that aesthetic with those interior ongoings and wheels learn to love and like it so aesthetic sensibilities shift and change through the leadership worlds of entrepreneurialism and and the great artists and architects so i don't believe in following a kind of average that never led to progress i think progress is always delivered by. authors and key individuals who take risks and if they don't if it doesn't catch on they're also don't make a huge impact on the city and will be substituted quickly if it catches on and finds imitators and. and a following because it makes sense that as uplifting it is it is a fish and then the transforms the city in its image one guy designed for me as

a wonder or seagram's building that beautiful elegant stephen glass skyscraper which 1st emerged in new york city on park avenue in the 19 early 19 fifties when everything around it was the kind of stone brownstone and then it seemed like an alien invasion something out of another world and maybe an insult to sensibilities of the time in look back 4050 years later the whole city has been transformed in its image so i think that's what i believe in i believe in leadership and visionary leadership in the colbys is another character i could cite his sketches and joys of $1000.00 twenties where reality around the world including moscow in the 19 fifty's and sixty's that doesn't mean that this vision is now still the vision so these all these visions have their sell by date which is as society and technology moves on to new makes

a new leap then we all have to kind of really learn the beauty of the new possibilities that doesn't come around every decade but i think it comes around whenever there's any polke will shift in technology and the social the sensibilities which come along with that and that is less predictable but it's necessary that the protagonists the oven guard of architecture is fulfilling the role of translating the new conditions into the building bombed and into the world of artifacts. patrick thank you so much i don't know which. was such a wonderful inside and to the world. we've been talking to. and the future. that said. next time.

during the great depression which i'm old enough to remember there was most of my family were unemployed. and it wasn't it was bed you know much worse objective listen today but there was an expectation the things were going to get better. there was a real sense of hopefulness there isn't today today's america where shape by the turn principles of concentration of wealth and power. reduced democracy attacks. engineer elections manufacture consent and other principles according to no i'm chomsky one set of rules for the rich opposite.

that's what happens when you put her into the hands of a narrow sector of will switch will is dedicated to increasing power for itself just as you'd expect one of the most influential intellectuals of our time speaks about the modern civilization of america. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us of the world of politics small business i'm show business i'll see that. i actually don't think monopolies per se are the problem it's the it's monopolistic access to credit or to politicians and probably both the crony financial ism crony capitalism that's the big problem.

trade and investment to become magic spells to come get you cannot make development . most people think about. trade they think about the goods and services being exchanged between countries and the invest for chopped or a trade agreement is about something very different but won't when investment leads to toxic manufacturing that destroys sacred sites all the environment. that means local communities that are being poisoned if they object if they do anything that the company feels is interrupting their profits they can be sued no multinationals are taking on the whole nations philip morris is trying to use i.e. s.d.s. to stop tour of the way from implementing new tobacco regulations aimed at cutting domestic smoking rates a fringe company sued egypt because egypt resists minimum wage democratic

choice over trump corporate law joins us as we try to find don't want to. is not a clock live from central london this is also u.k. . the fatah get started in parliament square a lot of brick city is very happy that 4 years on from the referendum it's a funny thing. the european union the u.k. farewell for mel just a trade deal to get sorted ringback in the next 11 months we'll find out more about that from europe correspondent. attention also turns to the prospects of a u.s. trade deal will be getting lives.