asked there thanks to wiki leaks its founder of course is in prison here in britain thanks to we canucks we know what the d.n.c. tried to do just sonders last time around it led to the resignation of the d.n.c. chair what dirty tricks have you seen against sanders during this campaign already and what do you expect well i mean i think there's no there's no denying the fact that he has for decades been such a vocal adversary an opponent of corporate power and you know to me that's what the thing that really has united. so many progressives around his message because in effect that he's been saying this for literally for decades that you can have all the great ideas you want you can propose all the amazing programs that you want but until you really get to the heart of the economic bottleneck in this society in this culture in this country really in the global monoculture as it

spreads throughout the world until you really get to the fact that that of handful of you know elite billionaires are controlling the wealth and are really keeping everything at the top and not allowing it to flow not allowing there to be genuine competition even a lot of the talking points of the right you know when you talk about free markets there's nothing free about markets where a few people have an absolute monopoly over everything and so you know the tricks. and the opposition to him is coming from the very top you know i'm hopeful because of the fact of that i'm i have hope for the human spirit you know as a muslim i believe that human beings all come from a source before time and space the spiritual idea that all of us were witnessing divine beauty and we all have a universal intrinsic sense of what goodness is what truth is what righteousness is what virtue is and so i'm really hoping that the human spirit will be. more

powerful than the human ability to manipulate and dominate well let's take one issue that you've written about in your music and certainly minorities are disproportionately in prison you've written about the prison industrial complex usa repeatedly imprisoning right now more by capita than stalin or mao how is it the biden will even be in the running then given his previous remarks on mass incarceration his writing all of the tougher laws on sentencing mass incarceration has become a really good talking point for the left but still the elite left doesn't experience it it's not it's not visible to them they are it's not a bodily reality for the sure the left and so while it's become a good talking point for them it's not really at the at the top of their list of priorities whereas for the masses of people on the right and left they're experiencing this we're experiencing this in our families in our everyday lives you

know in our communities i think that biden is more of an emotional appeal to a ceiling of nostalgia that many in the elite left had when obama was in office because what that really that what that message is it allows us to see ourselves in a way that's really aspirational we allow it we see ourselves with rosy cover glasses on that like look how intelligent and elegant this black family was that was leading the nation and for me and my family you know that really meant something to have that image but in terms of the actual governance i think that it really left a lot to be desired for people who are genuinely truly progressive and so i don't think that biden is speaking to younger people you know if he's successful it really will be because of his attachment to you know. neo liberal alignment with

corporate powers well will foreign policy matter much at the iowa caucus because it's another obama that's being spoken of by biden michelle obama as a possible vice president but of course obama was involved in libya and biden of course was involved in supporting the iraq war is foreign policy an issue really you know i come from minneapolis which is a small midwestern town you know middle america town right next door you know minnesota is right next door to iowa but a lot of the people where i come from don't travel much outside of the little towns that we live in and so foreign policy really is a matter of messaging and rhetoric. and so the fear that's been placed in the hearts of the american people for folks from the middle east you know i've i visited iran i've visited lebanon i've visited much of the middle east saudi arabia you know other places and unfortunately the fear that's been placed in the hearts

of the american people is being used against us so that we don't really have a very sophisticated understanding of foreign matters in general of global matters and so unfortunately i wish that that would be more of a. you know of an opportunity for senator sanders to to prevail but i don't think that that will be as much of a factor in iowa as we would like it to be. how stable is the 1st amendment of your constitution at the moment and will this election suffer because of the lack of information and what happens to those who try and give information i understand you were targeted by the homeland security department after your 2007 jack uncle sam god damn is that really the environment in which this election is going to be taking place you know i'm underground independent artist that you know i don't use my music to sell products which is where the real money is made in the entertainment industry i consider myself a cultural worker and so you know my job and the real job of the poets the artists

one of our jobs is to really be a voice and an outlet for the unspoken emotional and spiritual and psychological toll that you know governance takes but because of that you know i've been targeted so for example the f.b.i. came and banged on my door on my birthday i'm at home with my baby daughters i have 3 young daughters and you know scare them and try to come into my home and things like that and the 1st question is you know i'll answer out i'll speak to you but the 1st question is do you actually think that i intend to harm anybody or that i'm encouraging anybody to harm anybody else and that's a question that they're not really able to answer and so i just you know from that experience of just one you know a small independent artists being harassed and as you said it's been 13 years now that i've had difficulty flying they've seized money from my bank account all sorts of things they've let me know that they read my emails and things like that the

flow of information even the expression the healthy what i consider to be healthy and positive expression of the rage and discontent about the way things are that i really do consider to be a public service and intend for it to be a service to the people you know that to see the way that that is. you know the way that that is. you know that really if i get the sense that they're telling me you need to stop talking like this and if you would just stick to making music that makes people party and do drugs we would leave you alone and maybe your opportunities would increase you know it's hard for me to not draw the comparison from that you know from what i experience of what i go through every day and you know other artists like me like you know low key there in the u.k. our dear brother it's hard to not to not draw a parallel between the experience that we have and the election and the the rhetoric you know that's being unleashed on the public you reference cointelpro and

father think is what you're saying appears to suggest it hasn't gone away so i don't know the specifics and the details of the mechanics of how it works but i do know that there are absolutely you know elite forces directly at the top both in the governmental structure and in the corporate structure that cooperate to silence any kind of voices that which challenge that power so you know we can move things around we can arrange the deck chairs on the sinking ship which is what the quiz is what the corporate and elite on the left look to do but for somebody like sanders to say we need to actually really look at the way that you know goods and resources are distributed in this country it's really difficult and if they win if they you know if they if they play these kind of cheap tricks and they win well then you would have defeated a man by playing tricks who was only telling the truth and who was fighting for

what he genuinely believed in brotherly thank you. thank you so much after the break does it really matter who wins tonight's democratic presidential primary we go to our washington bureau to ask gargi host scott email use and the secret of lobbying with one 5th of boris johnson's view joy of these being former lobbyists we are scum o.b.'s what role is profession will play in all those rights of parliament all this of all coming up but you're going underground. briggs it is a reality in the u.k. it's finally out of the european union now what kind of relationship will the u.k. have with the earth and the u.s. also secretary of state might tom pale do you think americans care you can't.

just toss. them. out. and there's no no don't you know you're not. all of them ok if there. was not a match tonight in a girl with a bad day outweigh the. good vibes that i'm not going to be. the man that having. people. give the newly married couple what the how do we. need the whole corn. let out of here was so and i think just.

welcome back in part one we have been brotherly about the stakes in tonight's iowa caucus but does it really matter joining me now from our washington bureau is the one and only scott email he has developed cheese news views hughes will be covering tonight's vote for him erica scotty thanks for coming on going underground for a change i'm going to ask you right at the top even before the iowa caucuses isn't there a question hanging over donald trump a question of his judgments that could be grounds for impeachment in that he chose john bolton to ever be his national security adviser well the dark cloud of judgment has been hanging over president trump's head action since probably the day that he 1st announced that he was even going to run and when he was elected he was sworn in but there is

a dark cloud of judgment on many of the figures that president trump chose to put in his administration john bolton being one of the most curious ones considering he was an advocate against president trump during the primaries but like so many unfortunate in the cabinet they go on fox news they figured out the algorithm they say a few complimentary words and then their allies and their friends and this is a case where those closest to the president the chief of staff give a positive word about them and next thing you know they've been given a tattoo with him in this within this administration without due diligence as to how those individuals act and what they're voting what they're going to be supportive of trump it has to be said there's been tweeting reputedly more about it is than any other democrat candidate a sign that he's more afraid of crazy bernie and the bernie reaches the parts of the us a lecture it's the trump card well with all due respect to the sender supporters they obviously have to be under a little bit of a tyranny if they do bill if they believe the d.n.c. is going to let bernie sanders get the nomination especially after 2600. we're

already seeing that repeat action here in 2020 and only a few of the standard supporters are crying foul on that i mean you're already seeing their delegates be replaced by people who are obvious supporters of other people more importantly like joe biden so the bernie sanders supporters are going to have to unify and figure out how they're going to be able to hold the d.n.c. to the same standards the same rules that the d.n.c. swore they were not going to break again so i don't know if it's necessarily a sign to job i think once again what president trump likes to do is drive a wedge and a wedge between the biden supporters and the warm supporters which is a lot of the same pool of voters obviously benefits donald trump because it creates a war within the party which makes to go i don't want to part of that i'm going to go back with the man who i voted for in 2016 interesting what you said there about the d.n.c. powerful committee does that mean they didn't even read the wiki leaks revelations last time around that showed hillary clinton was trying to destroy bernie's

campaign for the last time around actually i think we learned it's not what was scrutinized but not necessarily what was in the wiki leaks which is very sad because there's obviously some very harmful things to the american political system that was revealed by wiki leaks but they were focused on who was the one and how did they get these e-mails that was unfortunate the focus of the d.n.c. because they did not want the truth about how corrupt the system was within their own party which it did screwing bernie sanders in 2016 the issue in 2020 however is their end of this facade they swore that they were going to get rid of the superdelegates they were going to get rid of a system that in no way just continued to push the establishment candidate but under the current timing of these impeachment trials where you're looking at the iowa caucus happening today and this week while we're still under this impeachment making sure that bernie sanders and elizabeth warren and amy clover are stuck in washington d.c. it definitely gives a benefit in the caucus system to those candidates that can be in the room that

could be in the state and know. not sitting in congress in washington d.c. sequestered having to watch that instead of being with the voters in iowa recruiting shaking hands and kissing babies which is exactly what is needed in order to win a state like iowa well global show and all these other candidates all over their own control visit understand the n.w.c. pm black lives matter telling to suspend their campaign after revelations of a reputation as a prosecutor because of commodity errors fab's show me them about which will trump said about so is opposition to globalisation being a threat the crucial issue of how trump won those midwest roaches against globalization isn't that with saunders could win where biden comes against from what's very interesting about this and why i think a lot of sander supporters after realizing what happened 2016 crossed over and said you know what i'm going to go with president trump in this case on the campaign

trail president tribe actually had some of that same sort of policy america 1st we want to get out of causing all of the trouble and turmoil in other parts the world and come back and focus on the united states and taking care of our citizens a lot of that appealed to the bernie sanders supporters and 2016 president tom has not fulfilled a lot of those obligations i think the biggest question people have about bernie sanders and his identity as socialism that is exactly opposite of what president trump and his base identifies as and they see socialism as being the absolute enemy to the republic here in the united states and the government that has been set up so it's going to be interesting to see how he's going to continue to drive that separation went on in many cases and 2016 his policies crisscross with sanders hence why trump was able to bring some of those over back into the truck camp at least on election day it's going to be thank you well big business covert and overt lobbying will play a key part in this year's u.s. presidential election but what about here in post bricks in britain i'm joined now by

a mobius does he call his new book the secret of low being the essential business guy . well winning in the political jungle is out now does he welcome to going underground amazing clear concise prose the secret art of lobbying a lot of people are going to be thinking the leave is a different now that britain has no representation of the european union well being subject to regulatory frameworks tell me about the the book the secret art of lobbying the book is actually designed to help people get the attitude and skills to engage with governments and when i went to a bookshop and saw there was no books on how to deal with governments i said ok i'll get out and write one that's amazing that there are no books about how to deal with government do you think that's partly because and it is a transnational book i should emphasize but in k. street in washington d.c. you see the massive lobbying company logos all the way down to congress over here in britain there's a bit of shame when you're looking at who is in throughout the show why people make

decisions. what's in here what's not people are suspicious pay press especially the people's motives and not so much in the united states and well because it is much more accepted in the united states it's less so and europe actually you case pretty advanced and say what we we need to engage with industry associations charities whatever you just don't call it lobbying time ok well right now any entrepreneur any business professional is going to be thinking that any terms of free trade deals as regards a business that involves overseas trade there is a critical time because tariffs all manner of regulations are going to be written in to those agreements outside the european union as part of the person breaks that process what words to some key advice you can give to businesses of how they can influence the politics right now if i was a small business because this is just

a time government wants to be seen that it's encouraging innovation and small companies so now is the time it can say this is technology i've developed in the u k. how can you help me with my export markets. governments on their side and say we are helping innovative companies so here is 11 of the big problems as facing many sectors they have. some technologies are complex talk to a politician politicians have no idea what this person is talking about so read that book and say you've got a pretty technical matter you've got to translate that support ition can hear you care about it and say how can i help you but as you say in the book you witnessed in geneva actual phone tapping by the united states government over japanese american deals what would you say as regards huawei you know from a very very high level like. it's it's clearly a political decision making process that seems to be divorced from technological

and and the profit motive even though i don't know enough way to make. comment but you're quite right the key thing is you've got an economic decision which is important but it's highly political. getting those ones right how do you still have a good dialogue when you have all the stuff being played out in the press is a difficult thing to do ok the easy way is that you do itemize of being able to get politicians on your side who knows to draft legislation try and tell the politician we save children we green it's about natural national heritage it's about sport consumer awareness we have the good it will improve law in order to improve safety and i think in the end you go it's all about happiness at least the gambits that really do work with the democratically elected representatives they do. if you

have to look at a company who are only concerned about and say their profits may be that workers but what matters for the politician so companies need to say this is how we came to put ourselves forward not putting ourselves mainly as a highly profitable industry making green gadgets. this is green and innovative and this is what appeals to the politician there are cases though that sometimes lobbying just can't work even retaining someone like you cigarettes presumably you know it's over for cigarettes what about the arms industry i mean at the moment there's obviously a lot of. action against british era be a systems over drone strikes in the world's worst humanitarian crisis in yemen how they manage how as a company like that managed to keep growing supplying technology to a autocracy like saudi arabia. that said in one part of it they

they employ a lot of people they develop a lot of new technologies. it's important to them so the industrial competitiveness of the u.k. and other countries which have large industries. when you develop something for the military maybe it. doesn't change the fact that you've got very high tech equipment being made by a lot of people and that makes them important ok well we know from previous scandals where bribing companies and politicians in arms deals was prevalent and exposed you make it clear law being easing money in this country is illegal but there are ways around it using money. i do explain in the book that yes there's a lot of money politics cost an election campaigns cost money where does that come from i think to have a sustainable presence in talking with governments it's best to kick the money out

of it there was $1.00 statistic that up to 20 percent of new intake tory members of parliament all former lobbyists after the december general election. i don't know whether that's a good or a bad idea given that presumably lobbying is going to be key in this post. but it might be only be 10 months before the end of the year when the withdrawal agreement kicks in and what's important is how those m.p.'s perform as backbenchers committee members members of government that's when it comes what i do like a political system so when you have people from a wide range of backgrounds speaking as a lobbyist benefit for a lot of background of many different industries i think that was that is a good background for for someone who wants to stand up and go vote for me would rather roll and go the other way you know whether you come across a competitor lobbyist who work all the titians. same kind of thing. they certainly have they have the expertise to stop making very good lobbyists

sometimes do yes and sometimes sometimes no. but when you are looking at how does a government deal with that with an industry and you got a lot of x. come people in the industry yes it makes connections easier but you still need to have transparency to make sure that things are being cooked up behind those tools and fundamentally what would you say to those watching you may feel this is at its core anti-democratic this is money this is strategies of communication nothing to do with the ballot box as regards regulation frameworks. over which which govern our society at large and the basic fact outside the westminster bubble industries sectors are very complex and your markets being created the technologies being created. to say that everything should be the westminster insulated from the all local government the role of government would be would be crazy to someone to make a sense decision about what they're going to do about the 700 local government

always reach what they do about the city you do need this and that the whole the whole time. thank you thank you very much and that's it for the show will. be a prime minister barak johnson's 1st vote. if he ate yesterday the trial the state will have for going to war for a period in independence until then you get to continue the conversation on social media and subscribe to the going to. happen high unemployment. benefits will see it. was mostly got to. it's so hard not to think of the mother disappeared this is the work of the day i was and i'm going to start then if. this is the only thing

that we do is music because everybody fights his weight. on. the floor you can feel the feet out of his bill frist will be at that area throughout the whole movie about a lot of them came out on the. roof but i think it is this is the fans that is a constant thank. you. thinking of getting a new gun the ones we got in here shell found out why he didn't know what to do he was trapped in this tiny little wired hotch being near the crate with him he will stir reaching out and he will want to spray him anywhere near. greeting dogs or caged in inhumane conditions on puppy farm i mean 67 years you know they've been

locked up in a cage outside you see no protection from the weather the sheep you know the courtier the rain the snow the funder nothing they have no protection. to get you. to get through kiddie. across the u.s. cruel puppy mills are supported by dog shows and pet stores most of the puppies are coming from this large scale factory farming kind of operations are being sought in stores even joined by good businesses are involved like dog among santa there has been a shocking amount of organized opposition to adverts to increase the standards of care for dogs bred in commercial breeding for so many days most of that opposition is coming from huge agricultural groups and industries that have nothing to do with jobs don't buy dog on o.t. . 7 days as the leader just almost execute.

this middle. aged man in l.a. . and goes oh no don't you know you not. can if you could quote all of them ok if. not minimize to a girl with a battle they have laid. down to be a. woman that having. even for people. who give their name neither you. nor do they need the whole. thing.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race move this on off and spearing dramatic development only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. both you.

and me of the us establishment body fell and just started up the polls ahead of bundy's key democratic caucus in iowa despite facing attacks from the media and socialist on. those i'm in the u.k. is it a modest amount the hind fun things like talking about to have some time in prison for terror related offenses bob what are these all these competing phantoms. he was shocked at all to wounding 2 people. the attorney and mafia gets its hands on the 10000000 euro zone in our cultural fun day as an investigation claims to reveal the criminal tactics used to pressure no before. aaron.