metaphor of our time. crosstalk in the iowa catastrophe i'm joined by my guest rory reilly topping in cincinnati she's an attorney conservative commentator as well as contributor at the hill in washington we have given jobs he is managing partner of the child as group as well as former president of d.c. young democrats also in washington we crossed driscoll he is an adjunct professor at the george washington university or across like rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it rory let me go to you you're on the republican side conservative side so being an outsider looking in what do you make of this catastrophe in iowa i mean you couldn't make the planet to be worse ok and what does it tell you as i said in my introduction is this a metaphor for our times go ahead well i absolutely agree with you that this is a metaphor for our times i understand that they want to redo the process to be more

transparent but the result is that it's anything but and in fact we don't even have a result at this point so i think that if it had been the other way around and if it had been republicans that had done their caucus rules this way and there had been a disaster the media would be a lot more critical of what we're seeing i think people are certainly frustrated and i assume the candidates are frustrated i mean one of the main benefits of iowa is the momentum that you get going into new hampshire and some of the other primaries and leading up to super tuesday this essentially kills the momentum for whoever eventually is declared the victor they're not going to have that main event advantage that we usually associate with the iowa caucuses so yes i absolutely think this is a metaphor and it will be interesting to see where we go from here you know kevin you know i watched on different networks the explanation of how voting the caucus is work in iowa and i'm still not sure i understand it what in. world is going on

here why don't we just have a pencil a ballot and you check things i mean i'm kind of a no i am conservative i'm an old fashion guy but maybe that's a paper trail you know with this kind of apps standing in this corner. what is this all about i mean how can you how can democrats run the country if they can't run a caucus go ahead. peter it's very confusing to see a calculator in order to break down the formula and how many state delegate equivalents is what they call the vote that actually counts as hard to figure out how exactly those numbers are broken down as probably part of what's taken so long look i think that iowa. attempted to get it right by. being more transparent by taking more data by counting people 1st choice were and then the ones who were able to switch off their land it doesn't get you to understand that a man with what difference would do you should need to say this is who i was you know i will. write i will really takes pride in being 1st and they've always taken

it very seriously and i think a big part of this is that they want to look like they're doing their best to make sure that everyone's voice is heard and that it and that they're they're really taking this process seriously the problem with the caucus system as we're talking about is that it tends to go on too long i mean it's not convenient for everyone it starts at 8 o'clock at night unlike a typical election where people can attend can go from 7 in the morning or so and so 8 at night you have to stay there all night it's just not as convenient i think is it's outdated especially when we have more candidates running than ever before i think a simple primary system would probably be more effective moving forward but we'll see if they take that step i know they're in love with that caucus as well i really hope i'll players association there i hope there's a learning curve here because this is this is just a catastrophe and and just as rory said i mean it does have a very important traditional role in the in the primary season you would read us

let me go to you i mean i'm going to ask the obvious question that everyone's asking i'm a conservative so i don't really have a dog in this race ok but i mean this it's happening again to bernie i mean how do you think they feel and they have there's a lot of outrage they're furious do you think it's warranted go ahead. well. of course it's more and. the reality is the d.n.c. does not want bernie sanders to be the nominee that's right and i think it's very clear that they don't want him to be the nominee and so it's it's outrageous it's quite frankly a mess and i think this week alone we see in some ways a breakdown of democracy on tuesday february for the president will give his state of the union and only the heavens knows exactly what he will say and on wednesday february 5th the senate will acquit president trump and so what we are

seeing in some ways as i jokingly said to my friends this morning is a failure and breakdown of democracy yet what rory whose fault is that because here you have adam shift on the floor of the senate basically saying to the republican side that they don't believe in democracy and they're destroying democracy but on the other hand in the caucus in iowa that almost nobody talks about is it overwhelming supportive of the president i mean there's a lot of stories out there and people don't want to make kind of you know comparisons and connect the dots go ahead. well i think this is a situation where everybody a lot likes to point the finger and they're looking for someone to blame i don't think there's one individual that we can point our finger at i know some of the reports i read about i was that some of the staffers that were working on leading up to the caucus had reported that there were issues with the apps and they said no one listened to them so i know kevin said earlier that one of the main reasons to to change the format of the iowa caucus was so that everybody could be heard you

know who is not being heard is the people who are on the ground trying to tally these votes again several reports that they told the d.n.c. officials this app doesn't work we're having issues and they were simply told well reboot try again that was the wrong answer because that didn't work here and you know to the point that we also just talked about i think people who support bernie sanders they also don't feel like they're being heard the d.n.c. has made it pretty clear as we just discussed that they don't want him to be the nominee but that's not their decision to make it's the decision of the american people who are voting in the caucus subsequent primaries and other things that will have been different states but you know one other point that i want to make is that you referenced adam schiff saying that you know we're killing democracy on the senate floor it's also important to remember that the united states is a republic not a democracy and everybody is tossing the founding fathers around and point how important they are and there's 2 things there i mean in the same breath some democrats are saying well we can no longer honor the founding fathers because they

were slave owners well then they're taking to the senate floor saying that trump is disrespecting the founding fathers i can't keep up do we like the founding fathers do we not like the founding fathers either way they established this country they stablished as a republic they were very worried about what they viewed as mob rule and that's why they put these checks and balances in place so you know maybe democracy is dying but our republic still stands strong even though it's struggling a little bit right now kevin they could explain to us you know we i guess everybody and everybody knows you know that aid. d.n.c. doesn't want bernie sanders why explain why i mean apparently the d.n.c. doesn't believe in democracy either in the sense of counting the votes ok or allowing people to vote ok or having a system that allows people to vote what is the deal with bertie sanders go ahead kevin. well we're a couple things one bernie sanders isn't a democrat so the fact that the d.n.c. doesn't want him should not be a surprise if he decided to run as

a republican i'm sure a backlash would be strong from the r. and c. 2 because bernie sanders it's been his whole career really being an outsider what about you ross what about donald trump doesn't have a lot about donald trump ok he took over the republican party they're just afraid that bernie is going to take over the democratic now go ahead keep going well but donald trump is a republican he registered as a republican so it least he you know is a member of that party bernie sanders is not a member of the democratic party he's been independent pretty much his entire career so this idea that they are stealing it from bernie or their bias is clear will of course he's not a member of their party and he doesn't have that many allies on that side of the aisle so it's not surprising that the powers that so not that sort of that's a legit image reason would be it's a legitimate reason to discriminate against him you're saying that's a legitimate reason right what about voter saying it's not it shouldn't be surprising ok the voters should count that's why i think they've tried to open it

up so i do think that voters should be able to choose if he's running as a democrat and he has the most support he deserves to be the nominee but i'm not surprised that establishment figures within the party and we have problems with them just like the stats and figures on the other side but it's not a surprise that they would be against bernie given his his record and his tendency to be an outsider and be kind of a maverick he doesn't have that many allies in congress and i think that sort of blows back on him and it did 2016 is doing it now even though he obviously has a lot of grassroots support and probably won iowa quadriga so you know it's it seems to me that we have not really left the 2016 moment voters are interested in outsiders and the establishment of the 2 major parties don't like it donald trump triumphs and they but the establishment in their donors they just don't they want business as usual the status quo works for them but it doesn't work for boaters as white voters are voting differently go ahead. you're absolutely right i think we

are in a moment in time where we are not very supportive of traditional institutions in some ways there are certain group of americans and people i think across the world really that are anti-establishment but also anti institution where we don't trust certain institutions where they're no longer credible where we don't trust the facts and so institutions establishment even the truth in something ways is really under attack and just to go back to always point yes this is a federal republic which is certainly a part of democracy but what we are seeing is a shit again a shifting to your question. really where are we in this moment in time i mean this is a really kronos moment here and we're just seeing these shifting parts in this increasing divide in our country and our world and quite honestly i don't think we are really sure of where we're headed. ok let me finish off before we go to the break i want to talk more about this divide how do we start mending it ok i'll let you answer

a little longer in the 2nd half of the program but briefly how would you do it go ahead. well. i think the best way to start mending it is 1st to listen and to get to know someone who is different politically or otherwise from you i think that's the best way right now we're not listening to each other i think we're just talking past each other we saw it in the house floor we're seeing it in the senate floor we're seeing it and various conversations and the 1st step is really to listen and then to understand you may not agree with someone's beliefs but at least you understand the whole hole that's going to go to which we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the 2020 election state with.

some of the propaganda machine propaganda outlet propaganda tools we are getting information. that can change the way. we do you tube videos that. was much the longest. brushes russia russia russia. but i will show. you that they will lose their shirts and i really hope that the joint chiefs. were so proud. both of us are just going through a number. why have you not shut

down our tea on you tube it's a propaganda machine mr walker. and his community there are people who believe that it's ok. it's really hard there are no jobs and you see the kids. and as a parent. i can come up with lots of arguments there's a lot of conflict within the game and between the teams close to the conflict i would say. money is made. close one on each other since each other is good business the state of california makes $6000000000.00 a year off to prison complexes to get some 20 year life where. you don't care

anymore so you don't care mind anything. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle remind you we're discussing the iowa catastrophe. let's go back to rory and cincinnati originally wanted to do the great political divide and then iowa got in the way and i'm really glad you're all here and were talking about it but i was going to maybe open it up a little bit here you know rory i mean i'm a conservative as well and i find the left to be intolerant of conservatives but it's not the way it used to be used to be like we heard from hundreds he said you know we have a lot more tolerance we could talk to each other now you have this shadow bat banning and monetization. forming i mean it wasn't always that way and it's only

getting worse and i don't see how we can be reversed i mean how can you how can you disagree with someone if they won't even let you speak go ahead rory. well i think that you raised a really interesting point and i think that part of this conversation gets into the fact that so much of our communication now takes place over social media so i think before when you say it what it didn't used to be like this a lot of our communications before used to take place in person when i'm face to face with you and we're making eye contact i can read your body language we might be able to have a more productive discussion and reach understanding whereas when i'm just staring at a computer screen you aren't you don't seem like a real person to me if i disagree with you you're an abstraction and it's easier for me to lash out with you know victory all against somebody that that i don't really know and don't necessarily view is a real person and as a result of this and some of the social media activity you see people just getting further and further into their echo chambers so i think as we talk about where do

we go from here and how do we heal some of these political divisions. we have to have a conversation of how do we get back to having face to face conversations and spending less time on screen i mean technology can be wonderful in many ways but it also hurts us and you know that ties it back into our conversation with iowa this app that they created to tally the votes was supposed to be the great savior well guess what it didn't work so we really is part of this conversation have to have a bigger topic about how do we handle the role of technology going forward because from where i sit i think that plays a huge role in how people have become so isolated that's a very good point you know kevin we already mentioned the 1st part of the program about people challenging institutions even destroying institutions and the way i look at it and again i show my political colors all the time you know but i see the left you know it's get rid of the electoral college we don't need the senate we should lower the voting age i mean we should pack the court i mean. i'm open to all

conversations but this seems so you know dramatic you know because the obvious outcome favors one political side of the debate in and i'm not willing to take the take these institutions on until i understand how they're going to work and if they would work to my advantage as well equally to your advantage ok do you see that from at least from conservatives kind of worried about taking down all these institutions because at the end of the day it's all about power i believe in ideas and institutions where power works ok but not for power for power sake go ahead kevin right where you talk about packing the court there's no greater court packing into the than the senate right now and mitch mcconnell the way he's fast right that's the rules he has remained he's doing a lot of the rule it's not but it's the rules it's the rules it is by the rules the rules that were put in place you know but it's not like the left are the only ones that are sort of attacking institutions or changing them to their benefit we see it from both sides and it's getting worse and worse as time goes by to me i just think

that we've lost sort of our. our sense of common ground as americans there's more that we have in common than what divides us and i think that that gets lost because you know you've got partisan media and you can turn in to turn to a station that will present the facts to you in a way that you want to hear them if you're liberal you can watch the station like m s n b c or you can watch a fox or something if you're conservative and get the facts presented it to you the way you want them present it and that's not not very healthy i think we need to figure out a way to to sort of inspire people to have pride in their country i don't know if it probably not mandatory military military service but some type of service in the american courts or you know working in national parks or local government in exchange for cheaper to education to wish and lower tuition something to to bring people together and inspire that sense of sort of civic duty and american pride

which you see in some people but it's really really stunning i mean just the pew study that came out late last year late 2019 really highlighted the fact that people you know they they would be upset if i think it was almost half of americans would be upset if their a member of their immediate family married somebody a little different political ideology which i mean is really outrageous when you think about it it's almost like politics has become the new religion in a lot of ways but it really is a problem it's a weakness for our country is probably the thing that could that could destroy our democracy or republic whatever you want to call it and we've got to get in line there's got to be a way around it there's going to take some work and we've got to admit that we have a problem and then work towards fixing it ok quadriga is in washington i mean the way things are going for the democrats and i do think i always a metaphor it looks like donald trump is going to get reelected because the

democrats just don't have anyone of grabby toph out the. there and i can just imagine what the debate stage will look like i mean what is going to happen if bernie is denied it again trump is reelected and it's time for the democratic party to break up into 2 different parties because i mean if you have joe biden in a o.c. in the same party what does that say about the democrats it doesn't say much to me except for it's a huge tent where everybody's angry with each other go ahead. i agree i think donald trump is on the path towards reelection and i think we're clearly seeing that happening this week so it's it would be very interesting if bernie sanders is indeed the nominee i think he will have some sort of dramatic effect very similar to hillary clinton of course he is the nominee and donald trump wins listen it's very hard why do you say that i like because a lot right now you mention hillary clinton i don't understand the parallel you're

making here she was a dreadful candidate that is well you might say that the fact that she because she's a woman so the fact that she thought that she deserved to be president and the fact that she lost it was traumatic for and i think again if bernie sanders is the democratic nominee he loses again it's going to be traumatic forms of the parallel i was making is the political trauma that will happen if bernie loses yet again well donald trump is slated to win this election is donald trump really has to lose because the economy is doing quite well you have republicans who may not necessarily like his behavior but he's good for business he's good for the country and it's going to be very hard for those moderates and those independents to make such decisions and so what i really think we're seeing here is that to your point no one no one on the democratic side has the sort of gravel toss of the bravado if

you will to actually go against donald trump but what we do know is that the voters are sort of looking towards these these extremes on both ends so you have a donald trump and you have a bernie sanders and when you have these 2 together i think at the end of the day donald trump has more going for him although of course his behavior and his rhetoric sometimes reality a bit but i don't really trust him about or from child's behavior and rhetoric is baked in ok everybody knows that i don't know why the left can't understand. ok rory i would like to see bernie sanders run against donald trump you know why because i think you talk about policy instead of identity politics and all that other nonsense hot air you know white noise when we talk about policy for a change and i think it would be quite refreshing and ben you would have a choice go ahead rory well i think that you're absolutely right because from a policy standpoint i don't think you're going to see 2 candidates who are more you

know diametrically opposed than sanders and trump so yeah and to the point about you know questioning institutions and things like that if i were either the d.n.c. or the r. and c. i would want to engage in some level of introspection to say what are we doing wrong why are people on both sides gravitating towards these outside candidates and having a debate between 2 you know outside candidates i guess trump is technically and inside candidate now he's he's fully embraced the label as a republican even though and i know we talked about this a little bit earlier in the show you know it's interesting to say well trump was a republican even though he was an outsider because he was a democrat for most of his life and he basically switched his voter registration because he saw opportunity and i think the other thing that we're missing here is not just that a trump and sanders debate would be something that's about policy yes i think that's true and i think that would be refreshing however what we've also seen is that what ultimately wins elections isn't policy it's charisma i mean trump had

a very strange aura of charisma but it works for him and you look at obama as well charisma h.w. bush charisma clinton charisma in our modern age people gravitate toward candidates that have charisma and they pay less attention as much as pundits like ourselves really want to have these more in-depth policy discussions at the end of the day they're not always what ends up winning elections so even though it would be interesting i don't know if bernie's person. ality going toe to toe with trump is enough to carry the day for the democrats and you know for all the reasons they're concerned about bernie i think that that is also one of them that we're worried about ok kevin i think maybe charisma is in the eye of the beholder because i know a i know a ton of bernie sanders supporters and maybe they wouldn't use charisma and i think and i think rory brings up a really good point i mean postmodernists don't like don't think in terms of charisma big is very important but bernie means something to so many people and i

pick their brains about it all the time why not elizabeth warren she's a fraud ok why and why not close which are she's boring but bernie's got something going for him because i'm a conservative maybe i don't see it but a lot of people do see something go ahead ken. bernie is the originator he's been very consistent his whole career whereas we talk about roy just mentioned donald trump switching parties will elizabeth warren was a republican until she was about 48 years old you know and she switched and became a democrat and has she always you know was taking on the capitalists and and big business even as a republican but she really started to embrace more of the more socialist type policies later on whereas bernie's been very consistent so when you've got the progressive voter and they're looking for someone who who can carry the flag for them they i think they're going with the person who's been the most consistent who's been who's been talking the same talk for a long time and it's really because of bernie sanders that the party has swung so

much to the left i mean medicare for all was something that was looked at as sort of dead in the water now polls come out that show that you know 50 percent or a little bit over 50 percent support medicare for all now they tend to be younger voters that overwhelmingly support it but a lot of that due to bernie he deserves credit for that for putting these ideas sort of at the at the top of news cycles i mean even the green new deal i mean we can get to the say we're going to lead and we're may cost you know us a bernie sanders the originator but the d.n.c. will never embrace them and that's why they're going to lose in november that's all the time we have many thanks i guess in cincinnati and in washington and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. a next time and remember. in the united states presidential candidates debate the future of the u.s.

and the world. next kaiser and stacy herbut dig into the burning questions of this election cycle one something every week. tax student debt trade was corporate money universal basic income and mole catch up with what's front running this sunday exclusively on. and i mean on this one entire system i found a way to go through a suit because they could solve mukti if i. was in this way got to doubt it so hard not to think of the mother disappeared this moment the work of a coward and i know mr larkin if. this is the only thing that we do is music because everybody fights in his way.

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coming from huge agricultural groups and industries that have nothing to do with jobs don't buy dog on a. president trump prepares to give a state of the union speech to the u.s. congress as his impeachment trial reaches the final stage. meantime a u.s. . she takes the lead in the democratic party's iowa caucus with the most votes counted after a long delay caused by technical difficulties. broadcasting live director our studios in moscow this is r t international i'm sean thomas we have a very interesting hour for you or a bulletin rather the u.s. president is about to give his annual stay.