do you think why do you think they might have been using your case so early on in the proceedings at this south london court and they trying to tie up the cia are they trying to connect a publisher and journalist to someone who like you consider themselves a wrongly convicted former cia officer i think what they're doing is. considering be efforts to use the u.s. the united are at war with their own called a darn good job to see to quiet dissent since acquired free speech i think it does make sense and where you know her purse or wait for them to mention my case because there was an appeal in my case where the government won't be appealed to finally decide i'm clearing me confusion about whether the government would go after the press were in journalists or by leaving just you know. be a son's case that's tradition proceeding is a further a starbucks and it shows that the government my government ole will use any method

necessary to acquire said what did you make of them then saying this same q.c. lewis representing the usa pointing out that wiki leaks cables were founded well he's a former cia proxy asama bin laden's house in pakistan what do you think when you think they were going with that case to try and get as scientists to virginia it's all about image and they want to create an image so mr summers eason going to me super free moral that he's a terrorist if you will and making any sort of connection with. some of the larger just fulfils their purpose to make that image the bible or any other court in the world with me during my trial the only thing that i see. for the trial the only thing accrued beyond a reasonable doubt was that i was black and they have theirs they have to show during my trial because there is no evidence that i was there. unruly on american

black men who have the nerve to stand up against the cia and u.s. government yeah in your book i wanted to spy the persecution of an american whistleblower you say that racism the worst racism was not in missouri it was in northern virginia where they want to bring julian a songes of course a publisher and i and a journalist not even a whistleblower what would he be facing you said not only racism but a right wing ideology exists in that area similarly that court of virginia is they are our home field if you will with us government their court routinely. rules in favor of the government with the conservative hammer everything north a law what i face even with regards to jury there was no i don't at yury that was black you know out in america and most of the members of that jury also had some sort of connection with security clearances so there was already i think

assumption by. that they better do the right thing by the government or maybe they were a match so he could not receive a fair trial in virginia i don't think that's certainly what the united nations measure up to neil's meltzer told us on monday's a show but the defense team also saying that this trial which the british authorities think is worth having in here in london they say that the cia cut out they allege a cia cut that spanish security firm was bugging the conversations of the lawyers we had geoffrey robertson q.c. one of the top human rights barristers in the world him saying that that the cia were up to this kind of thing is that the kind of thing that the cia do bug people's conversations with their lawyers i think you know i had words known show that sort of activity by cia or n.s.a. is certainly possible and doesn't be happy i can't so i cannot of course. speak to

any direct knowledge or apne but there is certainly within the earth you incapability your reader also organizations well you wouldn't be able to tell me. in the. helping the enemy that's another thing the barrister for the united states of america versus julian sanchez said and he said there are also the official secrets act trumps the un charter and the european human rights act what do you make about this helping the enemy charge i think again there has to go into the image there and i think it's quite disingenuous of the state to make any sort of claims about any sort of harm because if you eventually years since to america to face trial under the espionage act the government doesn't have to prove any sort of harm for them to do so now bolster extradition i think just shows that this is a political prosecution what it's like what the soviet union. yes

absolutely they have to portray this man as an enemy. particularly to the united states and to the world it will be a very sad day for speech and legal process in general you know years mr science extradited to the u.s. the lawyer again noted to the judge that there's no public interest defense for a publisher or journalist that was changed in this country not sure where they are up to speed on this a the family of a u.k. teenager killed by an alleged cia spy they have been supporting julian assange saying they want to see i suspected cia spy cyclist's and so google has extracted him but they don't want to sign it's taken away from just being a journalist is it one rule for the cia and one for not cia oh absolutely absolutely a dirty murder trial it was incredible or out there you saw are claiming national

security national secrets was only for their benefit. as i stayed in my book i sued the c.r.a. for discrimination my suit was not allowed to go forward because the cia and the didn't administration claim backs if i were a little awkward with my discrimination case there were holes a threat to the national security of the united states or u.s. government in general will use it to their defense and also use it to go after its enemies yet that same sort of situation is not allowed to be used by individuals who have complaints about the u.s. or trying to stand up to the u.s. government so is it is excess for strategy because they can point to you and right now if there is someone thinking of blowing the whistle on wrongdoing in langley at headquarters or it the myriad cia stations around the world they just can't now again it's a strategy of deterrence they're all chilled out if you say anything that we don't like oh we'll go at you and look weak. jeffery sterling stepped out why it will be

such a one sided affair where the government is able to do whatever they will are there in the trial but anyone trying to defend against that because of the complications . of the national security will be very difficult i did my best to fight against all of that. it was a hell of about and of course it's not just purely innocent to the u.n. repertoire says torture knob charlie detained by british authorities here it's chelsea manning who refuses to testify against a songe and who who is imprisoned there in the united states obama commuted jealousy manning sentence of 35 years saying it is disproportionate your vice president mike pence said there was a mistake to commute the sentence do you think u.s. authorities really want a songe manning dead as an example i don't know that they want her back would not serve the purpose of putting these individuals up as an example of what can happen

if anyone decides to whistle or say or do you really think it may be an embarrassment to the u.s. government how would you advise someone out there right now who has seen wrongdoing in the intelligence services the intelligence community the military industrial complex given what you've been through i would say stick to. your inclination and stick to your stopping your guns and goal stay the course oh don't be intimidated by threats of. retaliation and i reprisal those are very real aspects concerning whistleblower but for anyone to even say the steps to think about coming forward that in itself is a very powerful. thing to do hopefully with a discussion or was laura service happen maybe we can finally see more protections whistleblowers take it out of the. political route. i think yes i mean that be

a good example for someone who is wanting to expose government wrongdoing but it's doing the right thing so it's a unique person and i think even with these actions against me l.c. manning johnson react to you and julian assange arts. i think you can despite that people have integrity. and know how to do the right thing and i don't think this is going to squelch any of that even if it isn't covert attempt at infringing the un charter you wouldn't advise a whistleblower a journalist a publisher any of them to to attack the intelligence services for racism no i am not saying don't do anything like that because there are certainly reprisals but i'm just saying stand up be yourself stick to your integrity and sticks to your conscience and regardless of how big the enemy may be as you can stand up for

yourself and you can't fight against these individuals it may not be a good outcome but as i have always myself i would never let you all see to something that i did not did and i would never be able to face myself in the mirror doing such a thing so contrary to my character and i think the same things can be said out chelsea manning john kiriakou emmett yet julian jeffrey sterling thank you my pleasure thank you very much after the break ahead of the 120th birthday of britain's labor party and as members start voting on a replacement for jeremy corbyn we also have all the labor cabinet minister of the party of the working class is relevant in boris johnson's birth although some are going to have a budget of going underground. and the united states presidential candidates debate the future of the u.s. and the world. next kaiser and stacy her but dig into the burning questions of this

election cycle one to. every week. student trade was money universal basic. catch up with. exclusively. now that they haven't given the data system. that you know now. there is no no don't you know you're not. going anywhere else no creek. was not a master at. the battle they are a. lot of guys that are not going to be. the man that having.

people. give their net a 1000000 come on. and i do if they need the whole corn. let out of here was. just an honest. welcome back well to more of the 120th birthday of the british labor party now thanks to jeremy corbin the largest socialist movement in any major country but the party now finds itself amidst an increasingly fractured leadership battle of to defeat at the polls in december joining me now is former labor cabinet as an old clock of when dimia who served as a child serve the duchy of lancaster under tony blair he also served as they were shadow secretary defense and shadow agriculture minister will collect thanks thanks

for coming on the show called been turned into the largest social movement repeatedly in western europe is it now finished you know far from it and i think we've got to thank jeremy call been for the way he's gonna live and i support and you know the last election he said. or it is very confusing because if you look at it in catastrophic well you say catastrophic but remember we normally have 40 seats in scotland we had one we had almost a wipe out in wales you know for labor we lost a lot to seize this time and if you look at england in spite of the red wall that the press are focused on we've done so much better in england in december 29th teen then we did in our last catastrophic election in 1983 in 1903 we won 219 seats throughout

britain including 40 in scotland. this election we won 203 seats 6 different despite scotland going there you know all about the lake district you know the areas that is the. kist alma chatter breakfast secretaries the agony the mainstream media's candidate to be the next labor leader was it just bricks that his disastrous breaks a policy that last called an election i don't think it was i mean bracks it was really symptomatic of a wider problem the seats we lost when the city seats in the north seat in manchester newcastle we won all the seats with my majorities we lost the seat on the fringes and news people were feeling alienated they didn't feel part of britain any longer and therefore the lashed out and breck's it was the way in which they

showed their views but to the election we take working to i mean we rarely got breaks on the doorstep it was all until called me. describe workington it's an area which the mainstream media particularly homed in on as the bellwether seat of the december election yes it was that the press really picked up a good story there and run with it unless you are right we are going to. feel that and they feel the story but it's an area which is 40 miles from the m's takes no really good road to get there and they've always voted labor as indeed it did but on the right on top of that alienation they rebecca long bailey who's the corbin east a candidate touted by the mainstream media again. she said progressive patriotism you saw that patriotism as a clue to understanding these last oh yes because what you've got talking to labor

voters who deserted us by in large it was the men who do. speaking i'm going to say that and of course a disproportionate of young people in workington because there's not been jobs for years for decades so many of them have spent their time a few years in the army they got a trade there they would call it and there's nothing else nothing else but of course when they go back comb the one thing you know that afghanistan or iraq just doesn't matter they've been there they fought there and it made them even more pottery how to make these super jeremy corbett as. dick a not was the key thing so many labor voters. i believe in their country nothing else to believe. traditionally did nothing to believe in and therefore they were they believed in britain right or wrong some may say that the reason jeremy coleman was able to increase the membership by such a great amount with

a be able that never would vote or take part in labor party politics they were inspired by corbin if we look at some of the pictures of the former prime ministers the few they were prime ministers in the 120 years they're all war prime ministers at the dam of that plea obviously working with church within the malaria merge and see for rubber to get the money for the n.h.s. there's wilson who didn't go to vietnam but arguably covertly was involved in the vietnam war is a man called tony blair the 2 you served under yeah i mean we take her wilson i mean he was very brave in vietnam he resisted america america was desperate to get us to going to be how old wilson said we're not going to go there and he obviously worked with the americans me clearly he did but he we were part of that effort and i think he believed he paid the price for that lack of support of the vietnam war

which killed 4000000 people maybe maybe that's right and you can judge it but i mean you go back to otley clearly i mean churchill was fighting the war utley was running the country and in a sense was preparing for i don't think he set out to do this but the outcome was he was preparing for that great labor victory in 45 that the labor party itself. all parts of the labor party to all the liberal labor leadership candidates will be talking about the great age of play in the n.h.s. and so on clearly we now know papers are still not being released about herbicides used in the malaya emergency how many thousands are killed under clement attlee his leadership isn't that the boy that we aren't facing the fact that labor has been responsible for a brutal imperialism in all its time in power well i'm not sure if it's right to try to judge events of 607080 years ago by today's standards that's the 1st thing

the lack of knowledge the 2nd things if we're going to survive eve taking up your road regional point and prosper we've got to start looking forward we've got to offer something to the people of britain not only rebalancing between the southeast and the rest of the country but between parts of the rest of the country i mean i for my thoughts are more a trump and says by the way here you just said yes but i'd be moving the treasury to teesside in the well and moving the house a load where you work up there yeah go there before you well know he hasn't got before and he's got it wrong to start with why would you say york it's not typical of the redwall of the voted labor in your book given what happened to his chance such a job and maybe maybe moving things up there was to do with the bad weather in the abyssal and flooding going on up. areas ok but care storm of the mainstream media obviously wants to be the heir apparent to all of this he voted against an

investigation into tony blair's iraq or even to for mass surveillance in the investigatory powers act he. stained on the welfare act which disproportionately affected men women and children in the disabled he he he actually altered legal guidelines as head of the d.p.p. to charge those. on benefits with fraud under the ford act so they could spend 10 years in jail for mine the welfare or claimant excesses emily thornberry wanted to think went away more 14 years. i mean kiersten how much we destroyed by the left of the body just for those things surely if he's later i mean and she does a communist by the mainstream media well that's right that's one of the problems one has in the labor party and but we've always had that problem it may be greater now i don't know i can't make a judgement even looking back after all those years we shouldn't forget the origins

of the labor party and the beliefs of the labor party of using science and technology to make life better for the future of ordinary people in this country and nuts what i think we may have forgotten. in some of the recent years we've got to look to the for the future and that is what germany was getting at with broadband and it was loft at even though and of course there are food banks now in britain and one in 4 children are in poverty supply haps that's where the broadband was lost but wasn't corben appealing to that will sony an idea of technology in the the white white heat of technology he was absolutely right absolutely right we need our t. in every house in the country so generally coping was absolutely right but on the other hand as i said the un repertoire for liberals to said the poverty chosen by

the coalition to build democratic tory party was a political decision so bad is the inequality and wages have not kept up to that level since the napoleonic wars it means nothing broadband to someone who can't feed their family and needs a food bank to to eat tonight well no but we've got to look to the future and also learn from the past i mean. territory yes of the liberal coalition with the with the tories when they cut nurse training by 10000 a year for 3 yes that's why we're in the difficulty we're in with you know a 100000 people short in the health service and the whole services straining at the edges because of the cuts they made their territory was a big big mistake and we should not have forgotten the keynesian approach to economics which i was able as johnson seems to be employing now ok well just finally corruption is also been associated by the detractors in the mainstream

media with the labor party whether we will soon is raincoats whether it be tony blair's cigarettes and the gambling obsession by gordon brown of putting. betting shops on every high street wish the tories i think of curved a little what would care how would he say today about the labor party. well of course the interesting thing is that the town didn't things that hard it was after. minimum wage. and all the other things that stood for blair tony blair actually implemented with one exception he hardly wanted to ban drinkers well and tony didn't go that far rightly so. but but i don't care i would want maybe tens of millions killed wounded or displaced from a war that yeah well working people we'll tonight it's all kind of yes i mean

it is generally working class people not always who lose their lives when the labor party was formed 120 years ago certainly probably about 80 percent of the people in this country worked with their heartens now it's less than 10 percent it's a completely different world and labor's got to adapt to that pretty quickly to me blair adapted to it and i do find it rather strange the way people constantly run down tony blair and the government and the gordon brown putting the 2 together they were very successful government well they're judged by one other doctor still talk about peer fire new methods of hospital funding i've got to ask also about the major issue about the labor party as regards the mainstream media is not the minimum wage is not trade union workplace rights is not maternity leave. and these

things it is anti semitism all the candidates say it is now anti semitic to call israel a racist endevor something one could one could even see in the israeli press do you consider all the leaders that at. the semitism for them will be the key because the me mainstream media writes their priorities well the media certainly have an effect on that but to the ordinary people in the country it is things like trade union rights a worker's rights it is things like improving the health service it's things like maternity care it's things like care when you discharged from hospital that's what concerns people in this country and the conflation with selling weapons to the israeli government to factor in in children well i mean the whole. efforts of the labor government of trying to get you know 2 party solution the 2 countries solution is still in my judgment a lot it's been discounted somewhat is still the most likely way forward to achieve

to achieve a long term peace i mean it shouldn't have happened as a go to create a separate country of israel but we did you couldn't live without. this week. thank you so much thank you for the show will be. one of. london and as the candidate wiki leaks. presidential nomination until then he would. be. people. are actually digging into their pockets because. they're taking money out of their pockets. and.

this is. only. off the. in the troubled 19 seventies a group of killers rampage through parts of northern ireland that was coordinated loyalist attacks protect the population. were forced to flee their homes. these attacks was a p.r. you see the police actually took part in the attacks so instead of preventing they were active participants in the streets in belfast. more than a 100 innocent civilians were. in seniors and we found out more i was surprised about the extent and of the currents which think solution was involved in some of those cases that killers would later be named until an army jag i think it

went to the very very top i think it the frosts the water where politicians you thought was going on and give the go ahead. and the only think is later systematics know how that is not for. them the that. they have. had to manually. and that there is no no no not. can if you had a way out all of them ok if there. was not a master plan a little like the battle they have laid for the last 3 of a collage that allowed that to be. the one that had been.

given for people. who give the name not. what the how do not. assume alice are. not those they need the whole corn to go before. adam and not let out on asia was. just. the saucer version for the smart. ass to us who can influence. the nature and their good stead for leg. in the. church tries to break just started to show. some from. hope for the light.

northeastern france accuse the belgian neighbors of illegally dumping rubbish across the border. for the 1st time since the stars all be on break the number of new cases of corona virus outside of china has exceeded the none but inside the country. on the declassified study reveals a multimillion dollar u.s. surveillance program has only one mission to turn up do you need dates in just a couple of cases. visit honesty dot com for more on those and other stories coming up next on aussie international get ready for like kaiser reports but coming up in the u.k. and ireland it's boom.