discussion going on about whether the american intelligence was so bad by accident or by design doesn't even matter as far as you are concerned are clearly of invasion of iraq and the liberation of what we call that of iraq has been a turning point in iraq as history. also was a chance for iraqi liberation from tyranny. there have been exposed to for a good 35 years or so that the iraqi people lived under persecution torture. and political persecution that they were subjected to a very bloody regime for years and years so we as iraqis most of us would see it as a liberation although it was termed later talking persian and led to a lot of unrest and conflict but in its core the tours are a cause for celebration for iraqis well it's interesting you say that this

liberation as you just alluded came at the very high cost and i would argue that many people in iraq are still paying that cost with the main risks and insecurity is in the own life so are you saying that it was all worth it historically that it was the prize acceptable for iraq to pay to be free from tyranny. well the thing is i don't think it's a qantas fireable argument to say this is worth a dollar not worth it in terms of we we don't look at a bad way what is clearly sure is iraq was living under. very tour and they looked at the dictator who who was holding to power at whatever cost and we have seen the cost of hundreds of thousands killed we called in to an aide to year bloody war that more than a 1000000 iraqis were killed in the war as well as 1000000 or plus iranians were

killed on the did the rest of you see in the regions all to do with the regime. we have seen so it's not a comparable situation room one for one but for iraqis they enjoy a lot more freedom than they ever have and the saddam's regime the same time the welfare of the iraqi people is by far better now than then and what it was yes there are sort of backs in terms of security in some of the stable it is due to new factors that got into the original equation but the iraqis themselves are much better off now than they were before now the reason i pose this question choose because the iraq war has now emerged as a major theme in the democratic primary process in the united states but equally between senator bernie sanders who voted against the war and former vice president joe biden who supported it and this is this argument is ultimately about the u.s.

foreign policy how major decisions were made back then and how they are made right now. g.'s think that americans have made any changes in their decision making process based on the experience that they had in iraq would do you would you like them again to how common how often to your country and announced without asking your population whether it wants to be liberated or not. the thing is the iraqis were almost united specially after these the opposition groups to the iraqi previous iraq invasion were united in terms of helping their americans to to liberate iraq and it was it would have had not been possible if it wasn't for the help in terms of the american election and the antics that usually goes on and the claims and counterclaims it's all to do with electioneering i don't think we should take a lot. into it these are matters of suppling scores or making points in an internal

election as those they are the one who really make that for their own. public or local consumption it's not only about their own public i mean when you decide to help people across the globe it's it has to do something with more than just electioneering i mean like it's it's ultimately you know a major decision for the world security i know that history doesn't accept hypotheticals but i'm sure you've run them in the your mind more than once what do you think iraq would be like if that fateful decision to bomb baghdad hadn't been taken if diplomacy were given a bit more chance the fact is that iraq under saddam hussein was a bloody. wars and torture and suffering of the iraqi people under sanction and everything else that they have endured during saddam's regime this is not going to not going to change and continuation of that it would have been even

worse for the iraqi people but they are what i'm talking about in terms of the local electioneering of the american democrats now they're debating whether some of them oppose that some of them were for the war and so on this is. definitely it's a local issue that they usually come up i mean if you go back to the turn to 16 election and president trump then was making all sorts of statements about taking bags are all. hielan. going there and going that and he's going to do this do that and even building the walls and i'm going to do this this is these are all electioneering pledges that they made which means nothing when it comes to actual policy what we what we are really concerned about in iraq is to find stable ity here of and care what the world 11 candidate that could say oh don't say but the problem is of course is that what candidate what one candidate says sometimes transpires in terms of actual action on the ground and it happened not only to iraq

it also happened to your neighbor syria which provides an alternative template for how the removal of an on the wanted or horrible leader could have been attempted when you look across * the border and compare after syria what do you think had it worse the thing is i'm looking at the iraqi prospect of. the why the prospect of and the iraqi prospect there was iraq is by far better off now than they were under saddam's regime and there is nothing to convince me otherwise because we have seen 1st the atrocities committed by the regime i for myself i was a push mower again i knew what it looks like and i've seen the chemical attacks on the court of this religious i've seen how soon the victims are followed. i've had friends who were who were murdered and tortured in secure secret police you're misrepresenting the shia i'm not arguing that saddam hussein's regime was

a good regime that it had to be preserved my question is whether how being the iraqi people or any other people across the globe by launching a war on false pretenses is really a way to go and what your seem to be saying to me that yes you know it was worth it i mean all the sacrifices that your country has also your son know to your question what i'm saying is i'm explaining to you the my perspective the iraqis. prospective in terms of what happened and the history and the past 17 years it's your your your prospect of maybe is the front but that doesn't change what i'm seeing here and what i'm saying to you is for iraqis now they live better could do should we have been had a much better 17 years could we could have had a much more prosperous iraq a stable iraq yes has there mistakes happen absolutely could the americans have made things better by far they could've than they should've have made it better.

doesn't mean that i'm agreeing with their medications on what they have conducted here and they have committed crimes some some of a 2 year they have the same time participated in the iraqi liberation so overall to me it's important to point out the iraqi liberation by the help of americans was an important factor but that the same time they weren't they they made mistakes and the mistakes some of them were asked for paying prize i mean i can name just a few now i can tell you for example not allowing a quick iraqi government to be in place after toppling saddam was a big mistake appointing paul bremmer as the only source of power and authority was a big mistake the decisions paul bremer made then it was a big mistake of the dissolving of the army was a big mistake and so on so if we go through the details we will find puns and tons of mistakes that american did but that does not take away from the fact that they have ousted a tyrannic dictator who was bloodthirsty and he participated in

the murder and killing of hundreds of thousands of iraqis and millions and wars with iran then the invasion of kuwait and so on absolutely this is exactly what i am trying to did to do that on this program speaking of we since 2003 march 2003 and the purpose of the u.s. presence in iraq has been reframe several times from war on terror to nation building to war on terror again to what exactly what do you see as the purpose as the strategy of the american presence in your country today. what the american strategy now was the from by far there was a huge difference between now and then there where we can now they are a lot less involved with iraqi politics on daily basis than the same time the new administration have a bigger strategy would mainly it call the focus was on iran rather than iraq itself we we do complain about

a lack of american strategy in iraq and nowadays they see iraq in theirs and in the context of iran more than iraq itself and i but in my opinion that's a mistake that they do because a record self is a very important country it's jude it's geopolitics the strategic situation is important at the same time iraq is the 2nd largest or pick or oil producer and has impact on the oil on the world economy and iraq should be should be looked at on its own rather than being looked at in the context of the around conflict which obviously the americans have given that top priority well mr elden we have to take a very short break now but we'll be back in just a few moments stay tuned. thousands

of american men and women choose to serve in the country's military and the decision that has shattered lives are bringing home till i complete. the day that i'm afraid i'll be instructed here you know i'll shut up or they'd kill me and they see how destroyed my life any screamed in the me me come in any damn my arm and he raped me with his birth thinking if you take into account that women don't report because of the extreme retaliation it's probably somewhere near about half a 1000000 women have now been. sexual assault in the u.s. military rape is a very very traumatizing tat happen but i've never seen trauma like i've seen women who are veterans who have suffered military sexual trauma reporting rape is more likely to get the victim punished to be a friend and almost 10 year career which shows very invested in and i gave the sex offender who was not even put to justice or put on the registry this is simply an

issue of power and violence male sexual predators for the large part of target whoever is there to prey upon whether that's a man or one. welcome

back to worlds apart before hot allo dean chairman of the iraq advisory council and a former political advisor to iraqi presidents mr elden just as you were saying before the break the importance of iraq for the united states has decreased as the u.s. military presence in that country it dropped from around 150000 at its peak in 2011 to roughly 6000 right now and even dov contingent is a cause for a controversy and political games the iraqi parliament earlier this year called on their merican troops to leave but as we all know neither side seems to be in a rush to implement that resolution does the iraqi political class really want the americans to pack up and go. i think you will find differences of opinion and

position on this matter most majority don't think that the american departure right now is the right thing to do they do they do have a significant role in terms of their war on isis logistical help on the intelligence home but they provide in terms of tracking isis and there were about employers they provide an important cover about iraq lacks and this is cannot be compensated quickly if they are to leave right away so the iraqi establishment in general are marked with the idea of of removing them as the problem and decision contemplated but rather than they should negotiate and park and organize some sort of withdrawal or stage worse agreed by both sides because both sides would suffer if it's done abruptly you just said that both sides would suffer if

the best role is done abruptly and i can imagine the fallout on the iraqi side but what is the potential fallout in the american side because the americans currently have between 45 and 65000 troops in the region spread out between jordan and saudi arabia back train etc is being in iraq really so important for the americans because it looks like he's in a way they retain a massive presence in the region yaz the from the terms of if you look at the map you see the americans have lack of presence in the in our area. look at the east or so or north they they they have very little presence and that's why the they give it more importance plus the base they they use like i said they needed for cereals which is an important aspect of this whole region and that's why iraq is situated in the strategic lee important position in the in the region. for so for the

americans of they have presence and the gulf is not the same as one that was in iraq obviously the war on isis is based in syria and iraq so the only place that they can really fight isis and track isis is in iraq and syria now given that it's a very limited contingency around 6000 ships as resat and given that president trump. 9 did promise his constituents to quote and and this war is how big is the risk of him just you know pulling the troops out of iraq and there or reassigning them to other persian gulf bases and what would that do to iraq the issues not the numbers i mean the essence is not 140000 like what it used to be but the 6000 and the operation that they have on what they provide is important and usually they use technology satellite tracking and everything else that they're it's and they're in their position in pursuing the isis war that is what's more important than the

actual number of them as a logistics is not that difficult to to to take them out of the decide to go that line but as i said the suffering and the change in strategy would be immense and the effect would be a negative. effect on the american policy in the region would be huge. so i don't think about they are going to make that decision of the stage obviously they are looking into negotiating with the iraqis to work about how how they would work out a presence of some sort whether be it under nato or or otherwise now mr elden the call for the removal of foreign troops from iraq gain momentum after the americans and the iranians exchanged strikes on the iraqi territory in connection with the u.s. assassination of the rain general custom silly money now if washington indeed respects

the iraqi sovereignty even they want to stay in your country on negotiated terms why don't they consult you beforehand iraq is not an american backyard or isn't. it's basically the iraqi government have issued a statement condemning the attack and on obviously it was a blatant violation of iraq's sovereignty it was something that they should have not done on that should have not taken place but as i said the americans before i said that they look into iraq in the context of the iraq conflict for them general celeb money or as a very important figure that they they felt that they had to take action on him but obviously generals for their money was a friend of iraq and he was very important person for the iranian establishment. his killing was a major turning point in my opinion for the politics in the region and the iranians

took. a swift response by launching ballistic missiles on the american presence in iraq and i know less that so they're americans look. at this action as a way or for retaliation as a way of strategic decision i'm not sure but it was something of a very have taken place on the iraqis responded to it accordingly now as you mentioned you see it as a blatant violation of iraqi sovereignty of each unfortunately is not the 1st time that such an act happened but. is it taken in the in iraq as a sort of as an isolated sad affair vance unfortunate ones or is it something that may turn into a pattern where the united states and iran turning iraq not just into the battleground for political intrigue but an actual battleground to exchange strikes

where the fact is they both look at iraq. in one way as a conflict zone and both sides try to persuade iraq to be on. aside if it suits them they will use iraq as grounds to attack each other or attack each other's interest this is what the iraqis dread most and i have tried hard to to get iraq out of this conflict because both of them are regarded the strategy partners and they both have immense influence on effect on iraq's. sovereignty iraq's economy iraq's military and iraq stable ety both of them are capable of destabilizing iraq of they wish to and both of them could contribute to the stabilization of iraq in the different ways so for iraq really there is little of iraq could do in terms of stopping them apart from condemning any act that could be regarded as

a violation of iraqi sovereignty and the same time they won the iraqis want to persuade each side differently to to really take their conflict with each other somewhere else on the eve of the iraq's alone while i actually have a couple of questions on that particular topic but before we go there i began this program by mentioning the global protest against the war in iraq 17 years ago and over the last couple of months iraq itself has become a center of sustained protests is there anything special anything different about this wave of public discontent or the way it's been suppressed or perhaps rechanneled in recent weeks. what this protest is the really no weakening for the iraqi people as to the suffering that they have in the hands of the current political establishment where the political establishment failed

to take advantage of the huge resources that iraq enjoys and put these resources into serving the people and to rebuilding iraq and sort of infrastructure creating jobs and and really building services and institutions the iraqi people do suffer from lack of these resources in the same time from the corruption the that has almost institutionalized in the iraqi life. i live the same time the unstable ity and lack of security be it what has led to the darst war of the aftermath of it and the destruction the us as war have brought to iraq so if you look at it it is something that the iraqis feel bitterly about the lack of services and they their iraqi young people big numbers and millions that they are without jobs and they see themselves as with very little prospects so it is as you can say

an answer to their lack or the for the years of neglect there are quite a few people who said jazz that this new prime minister that was appointed there a few weeks ago is essentially a copycat of the of the previous administration despite having the support of a. very prominent. shia cleric knocked out al solder eases that shoe is that sure that the new administration is jazz and your rendition of the same political class that has been in power in iraq ever since saddam hussein was hanged. well we hope these lot of them in the movie the prime minister there's a good nervous as come with a major statement and made 14 pledges than and that's all sounds good but we have to wait and see if this new administration will be a continuation of the past or he will come up with something new he's making the right promises and people are looking at it with a with

a probably with benefit of doubt but it's something that we have to see he he has moved away and the law he has moved away from the usual established way of appointing ministers and appointing his cabinet he's been so far resisting all pressure from the political parties to to appoint any ministers from them and he's insisting that he. will choose his own cabinet he's also insisting that he will choose the ministers based on their professional marriage rather than party affiliations and i wonder if that's not a knife expectation because at least according to the wall street journal political parties in iraq have long turned ministry's into their own 5th that's the quote to maintain their grip on power isn't the new prime minister naive in thinking that he can forego the party's preferences in major appointments and still secure the

support for the cabinet in parliament i'm not going to call him naive but he knows the exact situation he's he used to be a minister he was elected twice as member of parliament he he constantly visits iraq and who knows what's the score. some people. call his 14 pledges as wishlist. this is probably is one of them it's a wish that he has whether he will succeed in the door now that's something that we have to wait and see a lot of people might not give him the highest score in terms of succeeding but it is something that is different and he is pursuing it in a different way and it's been looked at differently but some people do have the sons as a continuation of the old regime and some people say no it's a new era now on mr allowing the new prime minister designate has a little political base but he secured the support of. the popular

a populous reach over you call it cleric mcdowell souther why do you think mr al souther threw his support behind mr lowry and what do you think that support this condition daunte. the thing is they looked at the. established this rhythm in terms of backing certain candidates and then moving away from them he's more leaning towards the people taking to the streets when things go wrong and so on so it is this is a rhythm and his method of governing you know and expanding his his constituency the support base and as weak if he had to really track him from 2003 until now he has gone through various stages but every time he comes out stronger and he increases has a constituency and you can see that has been his parliamentary base is increased on the last election he won 54 seats and it's expected that he will increase the

smudge or a-t. later on so it is something that he see himself as the backer of this. new candidate although not declaring it wholeheartedly or publicly but he was instrumental in and selecting. mr allawi. though that's a way that he looks so that it's another tool another way another method of expanding his base yeah it's very interesting the iraqi politics is fascinating perhaps he should himself run for prime minister once even though he ruled out any political role for himself mr elvin it's been a great pleasure talking to you thank you very much for sharing your perspective oh thank you very much for having me and thank you for watching hope to see you again next sunday on worlds apart.

on. world is driven by shaped by our own personal there is. no dares thinks. we dare to ask. in the troubled 19 seventies

a group of killers rampage through parts of northern ireland that was coordinated loyalist attacks protect the only population of belfast tens of thousands were forced to flee their homes a mob was striking to put these attacks was that the r.u.c. the police actually took part in the attacks so instead of preventing it they were active participants in the burning of coal streets in belfast at the take more than a 100 innocent civilians were unloaded as the review can seniors and we found out more i was surprised about the extent and of the currents which the pollution was involved in some of those cases that killers would later be named glenna we're getting i think it went to the very very top i think it is. the water where all the test since you thought was going on and give the go ahead.

more employees from russia sputnik news agency in turkey have been released they were detained earlier in the day and taken into the question the. police clash with the turkish border after ankara gives the green light. to reach the e.u. in an apparent bid to pressure nato into supporting its offensive in. the julian assange and his supporters for the 1st phase of his u.s. extradition case now complete the wiki leaks founder and the glass cage and denied opportunity to interact with lawyers we heard from one of them. couldn't take part in the court process this is inconceivable how can a person be in court without being able to interact or communicate with his lawyers

who are representing his.