hello and welcome to cross talk or all things are considered i'm peter lavelle showdown in syria as the damascus government continues its drive to liberate the country turkey's illegal military presence has created a major international crisis is between a rock and a very hard place. some real news i'm joined by my guest here in moscow glenn these and he is a professor at the higher school of economics as well as all the decay of western

civilization and resurgence of russia we also have dimitri bobbitt she's a political analyst and editor at me internet media project and in athens we cross to alex pearson for oh he is the director and writer for the duran dot com. in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate glenn let me go to you 1st here. we've spoken many times about the situation in syria in particular and it would give this real quickly the 2 opposing media narrative one coming out of the on the ground and what you'll see in western media what's the difference well there's a good question i guess from the west the main thing you get is that this is all about human rights so it's about assad's government attacking. attacking its own in its own country you know with some foreign troops present for some reason. and i guess from the other side. the more story you get from russia recognizing that this is largely a regime change war and i guess this is this is quite important because by

recognizing that this is largely been a war to topple the assad government recognizes that the west also have certain culpability i mean for for many many years now this drive towards toppling assad has meant that the west has to logic stand well not to vet the militant groups there well which is supports if if anything for a long time anyone who is willing to pick up a weapon to fight the assad government in many there is not at all recognized as. a moderate opposition and i guess the awkward situation we're in now is i was just b.b.c. website this morning and even they have now their maps on the web site recognizing it is labeled jihadi on the jihadi control so it begs the question now where we are we because for because we're very upset that syria and russia is moving into liberate italy but if we're recognizing it's controlled by jihad this under turkish

protection how could you do it very unclear what the what the solution would be and indeed the initial agreement between turkey and russia was russia and syria would would halt it going into response the turks would separate you know what they call the moderates from the jihadist and thereby. yes clean up the region and then you would have some form of for for diplomacy in solving this and no one who didn't do that he didn't want to make good things here glenn brings up such a good point 1st of moment and it's never mentioned in mr western media that turkey has invaded the sovereign country of syria and its military there is its presence is illegal and even. mainstream websites like like the b.b.c. designate the elements holding it live in the province that it's in our jihad it's but you don't get any kind of pushback you know i mean it's so bizarre but here they are in turkey a nato ally is protecting and giving aid to what are deemed as jihad it's go ahead

alex explain it to me. i wish i could but i mean i think that they're doing on it and turkey have run out of road at this point and i think you said it best peter that he is definitely in a very tough spot a tough spot of his own making and i really think that when you look at a site like the b.b.c. and they're also starting to finally finally represent the situation after years of falsely representing it was going on finally starting to come around and you also had told gabbert the other day you came out with a statement as well stop calling the moderate rebels they are not moderate rebels they're isis fighters that the u.s. has been funding i mean you're starting to see that narrative change and they're starting to come around after many many years and i think that has a lot to do with the fact that while they say they may support turkey and they may say that you know turkey is a nato ally and we stand by you the support was very lukewarm for the united states

and for the e.u. and i think there's just no appetite anymore to deal with their dogs should natica and there really is not and i think you're going to see that reflected even in even in the fake news mainstream media that's going to start getting reflect you know it's interesting damon is the you know the russians and the turks have been. dealing with this issue for quite a bit and and almost every single step of the way into one deviates from what he's promised ok and in the western media interpretation is that somehow this is all russia's fault i mean for goodness sake russia has been trying to help everyone save face for well over a year on this particular issue. and they say if you're not going to do over there year since they have failed coup against in 2016 russia has been trying to find a more the civilian get with but. you know the west is able to watch than that because they're not conceive quenched i mean just last year when the. knowledge

that he would move his troops into the north and areas of syria controlled by the kurds there was an old gray in the west he is breaching the border and somebody they finally realized there were kurds there that's what how mr. the keyboard here is a western ally they kept saying that kurds are western allies so you cannot dodge them you cannot enter the a.v.s. even the. even the syrian government should not enter it even though legally it's all syrian territory right if. not on the border with turkey but look at the map it's pretty deep inside syria it's 5 percent of the syrian territory and it's controlled by jihadi groups even the b.b.c. acknowledges that it's you know so the question is how can you clean up this area you know the syrian government the russian navy how can they do it without using

media means you know the west is heap of critical they keep saying that the issue is a terrorist organization now it's called. sham and the 3rd if soldiers who were killed during the recent operations of the syrian army there they were killed operate in next door at the. so so how can the syrian government be blamed for using media true force against terrorism only talking to everybody since the it is acknowledged that this is going to have to be resolved and it's not going to be resolved it's going to be resolved by the military nevertheless they're there just. as soon as they have started you need to go with what that statement. who instead of condemning operating on another country you know as the western media. said could you share this he said that the united states is prepared to take the strongest diplomatic and economic aid shouldn't against that oxford regime

and a new state or individual that supports censorship so the united states decelerates for the whole world who the whole world should support even in the case but this is a country and a member of the united nations which is i don't know there's some theory which is pretty thin is pointed out here let's talk about the nato angle here and nato doesn't seem to have much of an appetite for these. escapades. on the part of the turks i mean a nato ally here but they already invoke article 4 for consultations which is only one step away from invoking article 5 of self defense for the entire alliance is anybody in nato going to listen to them outside of rhetorical i know that the white house came out for absolute support but that doesn't mean material support no i think it's both a yes and no are there because former for nato and especially in the states a little bit of conflict here has not been a negative thing but is because. the u.s.

has been very aware about this about turkey and russia getting along too well in this they don't like the process gets along too well with serbia with china with germany like the you usually it's a problem across the board but with with turkey. some conflicts it's been good to the extent there. during the wedge between the turks and the russians however you are correct i don't have an appetite for going to war against russia in order to protect a jihadi protecting me in an illegal invasion to 3rd country but i want point i think i just. said i think it's quite important to know that there is you would think there's some room for for compromise here because it seems everyone was more or less recognizing that this is controlled by jihadists and if this is the case surely there must be some room for cooperation because i think from now on in the west would be somewhat comfortable by keeping it there as a geologist protector given that it's a thorn in the side of syria and the russians however now that russia and syria is

pushing. them back in all this the problem is going to have. yes course of refugees heading north we're going to talk about that in a few days here in a 2nd here alex let me go back to you and and i mean everyone is basically put in position where he has to decide if he wants to go to war against russia in syria i mean what a dilemma to find yourself in particularly since the 2 countries russia and turkey have been talking about it. for for well over a year now making agreements and it's not that the russians have lost patience it just doesn't come through i mean he has not kept his word in resolving this issue it's it's all comes back to him go ahead he hasn't only not kept his word he's overextended to the point where he's in big trouble now peter i mean he tried to get nato involved that failed the u.s.

made some statements some token statements that's about it the e.u. can't put up with this stuff that's obvious the e.u. has no appetite for more bike routes coming into europe he's antagonizing russia he got involved in libya he has over. steadied himself to the point where dog is in serious serious trouble he cannot take on a war in syria i don't think he can even take on the syrian army at this point let's not forget that after the coup in turkey that failed coup aired on purged his entire military and the turkish military has not been doing very well with their operations in syria their economies and shambles the turkish economy is a big mess what happens if russia decides to put more sanctions now that we're coming into the tourist season in the summer what happens if they decide to sanction turkey again and look at look at their do want to get us in collapsium but he can't and kenny afford even to alienate the russians at all with the tourism i

energy. i think civilian nuclear power i mean there's a lot of involvement there ok real quick before we go to break you know but i think that's a problem as well though. because russia and turkey has invested so much time in from having a good relationship there's a sense of reassurance that they won't go to war but i think there's also the problem because this reassurance is put into the calculation that is the turks think that the russians won't respond because the turks and the russians have a big interest in maintaining good relations if they have it i mean they're going on is that he's good in the bizarre but he blocks way too often we go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on some real news stay with our team. and we're going to fulfill that promise is probably to the people. you know we've

all but. you know. pretty rough. if you want to work. know. all. thousands of american men and women choose to serve in the country's military and

the decision. every song came to a complete. the day that i was right. you know hold a shot kill me and i see how it destroyed my life any screamed at me and he made me come in and you can my on him and he write me. if you take into account that women don't report because of the extreme retaliation it's probably somewhere near about half a 1000000 women have now been sexually assaulted in the us military rape is a very very traumatizing thing tat happen but i've never seen trauma like i've seen from women who are veterans who have suffered military sexual trauma reporting rape is more likely to get the victim punished and be offended and almost 10 year career which i was very invested in and i gave a sex offender who was not even going to justice or put on the registry this is simply an issue of tower and violence male sexual predators for the large part of target whoever is there to prey upon whether that's

a man or woman. welcome back across the uk where all the. if you consider i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news. right let me go back to things you touched about in the 1st part of the program it ever so slightly let's talk about closing the border how greece is reacting to this and how europe is going to be perceiving a possibility of the floodgates opening and we all have one person to blame for all this and made its name is go ahead alex. all right peter 1st of all it's important to note that greece on the islands right now mainly lesbos which is an island which

is close to turkey right now you have close to 2025000 migrants living in an open air camp as it is is a camp that was meant to house 3000 migrants and they've been there since 20152016 when 1000000 migrants paster greece greece is a 1st port of entry for these migrants and these refugees from turkey now the greek prime minister a new prime minister who recently won the elections with a very strong mandate mr meeks attack us and i quote said no illegal entries into greece will be tolerated this follows an announcement by the greek government that they're going to tighten the border due to the corona virus because we've also had our 1st cases here in greece and they want to tighten the border as specially with the microbes passing through as is also a health risk so the greek government at this point in time is basically saying no migrants be allowed in god has already started pushing migrants he's busing them in

to the border with greece and on boats to land on the greek islands and the greek government is deploy military and national guard and they're stopping the migrants the greek government needs to stand firm if it folds like it did in 20152016 allows the migrants to come through you're looking at a disaster not only for greece but for europe ok aleksey of big what is it then is the do the greeks have the of the backing of the european union on this are they still being open ended on the issue because a greek in greece has taken a stand what about the e.u. itself go ahead. i think the e.u. so far has has been very lukewarm they haven't signal which way they're going to go one way or another they don't have an appetite for more migrants either though i'm confident that the majority of e.u. countries does not want to see the microbes passing through greece and moving upward up to the north that's for sure the question becomes what will angela merkel and mark it on do i don't think that this time around they're going to go turn the

water on and give him a payoff like they did last time a bribe yeah because i know you worked at the because it doesn't work it didn't work it didn't work if they do do that then you're looking at a complete collapse what i care about though at this point in time peter is that greece the greek government needs to stand firm it doesn't matter what the e.u. wants at this point in time and it's because it's about protecting greece's borders especially now during the health crisis with coronaviruses well you cannot have the migrants pass through whatever money is going to be given to. should not be given to you want to be given to syria the e.u. should be given money to syria the us should be giving money to syria so they could rebuild and the migrants from syria that are in turkey from syria it's important to know that the syrian migrants and refugees can return home to re build the country you know real quick and in to follow up with what alex had to say here not only do you have these refugees slash migrants you also have jihad is probably built into this as well so not only is it a health issue it is

a security issue go ahead let me just remind you that state just the western press when they talk about isis fighters from germany and french and german nationals who went to fight in syria how did they get that it's all what they what they went to turkey and from the turkish state or treat they perceive it but unfortunately i cannot quite agree with what that accept because i am reading that they show statements that nato and the e.u. turkey is a precious ally i am quoting you have spoken about. where the still ok but once the punch backing it up i mean i some of the. same thing to you it's certainly easy if you take it seriously i take it seriously you know several times i have seen that you were being human in destroying itself in the name of regime change i mean how much did they lose because of the regime change in you create hundreds of billions how much did they lose because of their regime change in syria all of that sort of money and thousands of lives european lives you know victims of terrorism you know

it's funny in that they keep the only in that sense i do agree with you but what i'm saying is that you don't really have any strong words coming from nato in getting involved in this because that it's not their dog fight why ok what do they want world war 3 because everyone can't figure out what he wants to do with turkey in syria really this is the most amazing thing this is why and regular say that not on the air of god but the west is to blame for what happens of course i'm looking at their statements from the french government for example total support french turkish cooperation in syria they use in these phrases when the russian journalist wanted to ask questions to young stoltenberg you know 2 days ago when the nato summit took place there were bar promo asking questions stoltenberg only took questions from europeans and turks so you cannot even question there when you.

think they do have something common like for some of france and turkey that is a shared interest in maintaining it live the way it is because. before when they if they can't resolve the problem least keep them there yeah but if they all if they are defeated now and they go north yes initially that turkey is probably going to have maybe a 1000000 more refugees again thousands and thousands of jihadist as well which is why recognizing the jihad is but they've turkey opens the borders that will no longer be turkey's problem then it will be the u.s. problem so i think turkey and their peons have a common into. and sharing that it remains syrian and the russian problem so i think that's where the that's what they will have in common really interesting because that means it's now resolved nothing is off the radar. you know if you look at the statements the most been ignorant statements on our side come from france and turkey the french former foreign minister laurent fabius said there are quote.

that's not merit he does not marry to leave on the plane it who he is. to tell the president of a sovereign country whether he should leave on this earth or not and what has been taught or rate in this you know. when he got to root you know he got kind of criticized in the e.u. the european politicians made nor were less shameless statements on the country that they don't know and that they have no right to get involved in basically every decision they made has been wrong. you know alex one of the interesting things as i was reflecting upon going to the studio is that thank goodness john bolton is still there what did. you know i mean the thing is that of course you could have the mike pompei i was in and here's a see this is an opportunity to escalate but the man in the oval office of the last

thing he wants to see happen what 250 days out from the election go ahead. yeah i agree with that i don't think it's going to get involved in syria and let's not forget that we've just crossed our fingers might have gotten a deal with afghanistan iran also trump can surprise you there's no doubt about it that he's unpredictable and i think he is going to to stay out of syria and if anything he's going to come down hard on or don't want. i tend to believe that no one likes erred though on including could all and france i do so i do agree that they are making statements and there are peace in turkey but i think at the end of the day europe and the e.u. they cannot handle another migrant inflow they just can't handle especially now with breaks that the you case out the e.u. is suffering they cannot handle this and i'm going to say once again greece can definitely not handle by great influx that's there's no doubt about it greece will

collapse if more bikers come in the mix attack its government will collapse if he submits to the e.u. is which is if their wishes are to push migrants in there is no chance that this can work on needs to figure a way out he needs it off ramp and i think russia is trying to provide him some sort of off ramp the question is will there do want take it this time i don't know i think i think he's really got in same way i mean this is they have made the off ramp analogy is absolutely appropriate in and as i've already mentioned in the program glenn he's been given that repeatedly you know meetings in in sochi and whatnot he won't take the offer and i mean is it because he doesn't know how to resolve this jihad disinfestation in that he's a he's part and parcel all about or he can't get them to libya fast enough i mean what instance what explains this because either he doubles down or he leaves any

good politician of a major country never denies himself or herself options. he's denying themselves options go ahead and i think that's. the difficult position which is created for himself. but i do initially have some sympathy for the difficult position they are in though because they have more than 3 and a half 1000000 refugees now they're becoming more and more unpopular in the country and with a bad economy it destabilizes further so he needs. the country will take more but that of course suggests he should have taken this offer which was russia has given and given him before now also can sympathize it's difficult to disarm the jihad is because its main influence in the it is that it's a protector of turkey if they're going to go and try to disarm them or make them give up their weapons obviously it is going to be very difficult task. but again there's a reason why this jihad is to have the power they have the why they have the weapons they have and if they would have gone in again russia has given

a lot of concessions in the north of syria allowed the turks to breathing space the need. to go this hard on the i believe it seems very foolish i did see a rational because i do because i don't see what the end game is i mean it's the end game to maintain the status quo i suppose that's one option. let's not forget the. 5 percent all the syrian territories so if i break down wants to invade syria you know and reform it it in the way he wants then the best moment was in 2012 when all the west was against syria you know the russian troops there are still not there was in the making so he didn't do it now there is a lot less opportunity for him to do this table think but i agree with that it's when he says these age should be given to syria but how don't forget syria is still under sanctions turkey is not under sanctions in other countries scenery is under

sanctions you cannot help 90 percent of the. syrian territory because of the e.u. and the united states have decided that they're not going to help let me let me hold you know it's ever going to make me so i guess. if we do you for toss up this will give us a control over lifesaving aid in a bid to feed support us and starve anyone who resists his cruel rule so this is the excuse for not sending too many 38 to this starving the same reasoning with venezuela that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guest here in moscow and in athens and thanks to our viewers for watching us here are d.c.u. next time and remember.

this is not a big do fit to oil companies could not go to the police with you to please. don't get. this done up on the level of use in the body only. as in the back of the car yeah. it was a pretty long it was a drive. through but it was a. suburb of the montevideo. overseas so some of the young gosh. locals for the reporter to be. neutral if there's a group of those who. want to pull somebody to the supreme.

seems wrong. to me. and in. part.

you know right now here in the headlines for you officials. in a powerful. piece coming off of the taliban said it would. get . peace deal between the u.s. and the islamist group the. trouble brewing here greece warning of a threat to national security in the last few days.

is accusing us of exploiting refugees into super bit of the.