hello and welcome to cross talk or all things considered i'm peter lavelle russia and turkey negotiate deescalation regarding what is next for syria also coronavirus is it time to start rethinking the impact of globalization. ross talking some real news i'm joined by my guest on that on the new guy on he is a professor at the moscow state institute of international relations we also have dmitri bobbitt she's a political analyst and editor and innocently internet media project and in london

we crossed who i was going to be here as he is a writer on legal affairs as well as editor in chief of the duran dot com all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate let's go to london 1st alex we had a stress test over syria particularly and we had the leaders of turkey and russia meeting and we came to a conclusion now it could be spun a lot of different ways but essentially the turks back down why. well i think the back down for 2 reasons firstly the the fount that militarily they were outmatched they're not in a position to take on the syrian army and the russian air force one on the same time and they were suffering casualties and i think that was one reason why they pulled back but the other reason was that they found that they had no diplomatic support or military support or political support from their western allies the

united states ruled out any military action in support of turkey they refused to send it to provide air cover for turkish troops and turkey found that instead of europe coming to turkey support the europeans instead were very critical of turkey's actions in libya and along the border with greece where turkey has been allowing refugees to move migrants to move in their efforts to enter europe so i think the turkish government and president gun made the correct decision in the circumstances which is that turkey really was not in a position to advance and to throw back the syrian army back to the regional sort she sees for our lives that were agreed in september 2018 and the result is that they pulled back and have allowed the syrian army to retain its military gains and they've taken steps to way towards

a reopening the highways but it is but this hasn't resolved the issue here because turkey still refuses to start dealing with this jarvis element that is imbedded in what we it's like 2 steps forward one step back it's not resolving anything and a lot of people are saying this is a temporary solution to a problem that only turkey can now solve because we have to remind our viewers the syrian government sees these jihadists elem. it's as terrorists and they must be dealt with and they're in the status quo cannot be maintained everyone wants to somehow maintain this status quo that's true and i think that earlier on miscalculate that. his policy and he didn't realize it that his position is not so exceptional which once was a bloke who was confronting whiston bloke at that time turkey was very important

country inside the nato now everybody mention turkey its real place which means it will have to recall kill it and understand that turkey has a limited puts ability it's a limited options and that's why this is not going to be the last humiliation for him because he initially wanted. to bring the americans backing him against russia he failed he want to reply exactly he wanted to bring e.u. blackmailed them and it didn't work and then he had to come to moscow to bow to putin and make that settlement which is of course temporary settlement because everyone in turkey they are talk actors strategic aim of turkey of course it's a might be strengthen its position in syria

a territorial autumn ism syria's. or don't mind a leader a kind of he is a kind of salt but as i said the reality is that turkish possibilities and turkish good goals are not coincide with. one of the things i really find surprising because with the end of the cold war and we have this global reassessment going on. nato is still looking for a mission to exist turkey she actually should be in a very strong position as a regional player but it seems to have it goes from one misstep to the other it's not playing to his advantages it constantly plays to its disadvantage for me it's remarkable well i think you're going to have to prove that god made huge mistakes and it's enough just to quote his statements in the last 2 weeks 1st russia must

get out of the way and let me deal with you know on the 2nd one i have no problem with russia so basically contradicting self so many times about this is why does he have to deal with his son why you see in syria and says anybody gadget question this is a 3000000 what are the turks doing in syria is exactly the question but the more stable think is the edge over the western media and the western elite because i slightly disagree with that expense he says that they would get more support at about let me call to the headline of the spiegel magazine right before the meeting between abbott and why the europeans must support that's the kind of language that they're going to do logical ok you're both right the article said that but i will examine it carefully got because they didn't do i need to exactly but the more the more i see where you're saying was that article from andrew higgins in the new times right after the meeting it will be prepared in advance most of it because it'd be

a just you know minutes after the meeting and so he gets right russia so far has refrained from a taken inside turkey because putin was hesitant about making it and i'll try to tack on nato territory nato territory territory kind of weaponry and it leaves is need to take a tree this is how they view it this is made look times and why don't you know bloomberg is another thing that stunned me you know yesterday they came out with that headline the agreement in a more school is bad news for the west. just imagine you know what i do so if they're fighting about it will be bored with the gates open the floodgates and the more standard outcome that you know that he can seize is some kind of a settlement settlement between russia and turkey because he writes putin previously or what it has failed in his previously successful efforts to cultivate

new star began in the hope that turkey the easternmost member of nato would prashar saw discord within the united states led military ok ok so this is little you may know but this is because it's actually on its head let me go back to. deimos i mean dealers are media expert here of wonderful research but the fact of the matter is if you look at the secretary mike pompei o during this process he was egging the turks on to confront russia because he believed that russia would back down i mean the thing is is that they don't they've never wanted a resolution in syria that they can't control well everyone lost control pompei or no one's going to listen to and of course you have the hot air from the e.u. no all of this is happening on the ground and they are going to determine the final outcome it's taking longer than we all thought but they will go ahead alex well that well this is exactly the point because of course what happens was that yes

there were some people in the u.s. government and in and in the e.u. and in the media who wanted to give full throated support to turkey and not just verbal simple stronger support what decided however was that the pentagon clearly and. unequivocally said no they are not prepared to go head to head with the russians on turkey's behalf in india province and it's important to stress it's not just the syrian government that recognizes these groups in italy. as terrorists the entire international community does the united nations does the united states does and the european union does and i think this is perhaps the single biggest flaw in the internal media narrative well no it doesn't exactly you didn't you just said flaw i will i would change the word fraught ok this is the biggest fraud in the media here are jumping ahead.

i think that. situation it's clear that americans are tired of turkey and in america there is a very serious critical position towards their ground and his policy 2nd america is trying to bring back its troops from afghanistan and from other countries of the middle east and nobody is going to increase american involvement in this area especially when you have elections forthcoming and when trance or many times try is holding its thumb on the scale of exactly that this is the waste of money of a stove for it's a waste of lives which means in this situation and then a 2nd important thing is. with the especially europe they are tired of turkey and

they're gone and nobody is looking through their fingers and that he is organizing a base car once or for refugees towards the border or european union looting ferreting out is it is repaired in syria to know exactly which means all is rhetorical in the sense that when it to support turkey we need to show a unity over the worst. it's just you know. it's exhausted itself you did not in italy. each it's not having any impact on the russia and the russian leaders that's why putin what's so strong in a so strong position was very tough during this negligee it was interesting right prior to a demon the 30 seconds they were saying that the russians had blinked they were going to. say that was all part of the media here 25 seconds but most hilarious

news came from the greek government you know the greek government does but pretty important that 64 percent of the people whom they arrested on the border with turkey cross into turkey well from afghanistan from syria so to key is just finally in there from other countries it's not from syria so much for. that we have to say well no there are people in the syrian if they wanted many syrians want to go home there's evidence of that look at aleppo we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion and some real news stay with r.t. . in the united states presidential candidates debate the future of the u.s. and the world. max kaiser and stacy herbert's dig into the burning questions of this election cycle one something every week. tax student debt trade was

corporate money universal basic income and more catch up with what's front running this sunday exclusively on r.t. . good food descriptions sound up to tell using even for the owners so how to choose the pet food industry is telling us what to feed our pets more based on what they want to sell us then was necessarily good for the pet turns out that food may not be as healthy as people believe we have animals that have you know diabetes and arthritis they have auto immune disorders allergies we are actually creating these problems it's a huge epidemic of problems all of them i believe can be linked to a very simple problem of diet and some dog owners so heartbreaking stories

about their pets street to larger corporations are not very interested in proving or disproving the value of their food because they're already making it a $1000000000.00 on it and there's no reason to do that research. welcome back across the uk where all things are considered on people about for a month we're discussing some real news. because go back to alex in london let's switch gears and talk about the coronavirus and something they don't think gets enough discussion is the coronavirus and globalization because you see the vulnerability of this this model this neoliberal model for the world economy it's has a lot of weaknesses we have supply chains under under threat we have to we're being forced to reconsider borders even though the left always talk when they believe in open borders well have you have an open border and you have

a pandemic that is bad news for everyone i mean there are so many elements here and also with the rise of populist movements all across the globe the whole issue of sovereignty and the coronavirus is making people question or so. smart people question most people don't want to ask serious questions in the media go ahead alex and. the most extraordinary response to the coronavirus crisis has been the fact that the european union has very clearly that he's intending to stand by the whole free movement because within the european union this is a time when it's been made clear that we have to have controls on movement in order to control the spread of this virus so here we have the audio globalization if you like confronting the reality of the decision makers are going with the anti all inji rather than face the reality what you think that the decision makers of this

ideology are well protected from this virus they're always protected from all the downside all the negatives of this ridiculous ideology does less and less for the average person they're going to be fine don't worry about it alex ok the rest of us well let's hear. this yeah i mean it's very true here i mean because the open borders thing and then and then you look at these supply chains probably get the year wrong so no hope no one's going to sue me i think it was in early 2000 the united states closed down its last factory to produce penicillin it's all imported from the outside primarily china and if you look at pharmaceuticals all around the world sourcing comes from china i'm not blaming china for being the source but globalization allowed that to happen where you have big pharma in the west becoming fabulously fabulously rich because you can outsource from china but when you have a situation like this where

a country's supply chain slow down maybe they can export it because of the virus here i mean no one really seriously thought this out because globalization does put people at risk and we're seeing it with this virus i think that cooking a big. clear as a result of this crown i will address when americans openly. confess to day don't have enough equipment to make the tests which was very very surprising because any american politician who can tell the people that you know we are the greatest country and they were richest country in the world and they have only 1000 tests or something because they don't have equipment which means this is the result of this globalization as you have said and problem which is for me very interesting and i don't know what the answer how

much global media is playing that negative role and easy used against china and chinese economic interest because them and i think china of course think chinese economy be your more closed and limiting their expansion is also in global interests although. that's you're really one of the smartest people i know in your right because you can throw in this element of racism as well that is being played well i was in london with alexander mackerras actually about a week and a half ago and then they the chinatown area was basically vacant ok ok there was a you know give me your that your ideology guys here ok. we'll house here but i mean what i'm trying to get at here is that this isn't because globalization has created allowed these threats to become more real. we have an opportunity to

push back in and reassess this ideology at the same time because i think that is in our our interest also and also themselves and we curious and later is that the american medical system is on trial right now let's talk about the ideology well. history shows us that in many cases proponents advocates of to go just became their victims you know. especially when studying destroyed the old communist was a good example so the same story here i think their initial reaction in the united states in the year was it's all china's fault there was a cover up there were fake mules you know what cheney is going to dissolve for their meat and they don't feel eat bats and they bats you know and then suddenly well 1st people in the west don't trust the media of the rush of the new trade to do separation after wards of coverups people taunt droste recitals media you know and then western media spine that it started seriously writing about their risks in

san francisco in the united states suddenly again and you're spiegel magazine they had a huge article about you inequality you know in some fantasy school if you have a home office you're protected but what about all of these hundreds thousands of people you know all who are delivering food you know the whole are still homeless situation in san francisco and los exactly what about people who have to use public transportation you know who can all be driven. to the office by texas so suddenly this inequality becomes even more visible you know and and all of the talk about. you know huge wide wall which is open for you is suddenly becoming so hollow you know and the european suddenly we have a situation when the borders with italy are open and the disease can spread from there while just recently they refused to take people from syria who belonged to

the government side please remember why did the os that his people fight so desperately against. these were missed because they were left no choice europe was taken from syria if they were on the side of the government. so i think that this globalist ideology it's it trapped itself you know if. we go back to our answer in london but it's also a political weapon isn't it ok the chinese are prepared they lied they did they weren't transparent book the troubling ministration is slow in reacting i mean it's a cudgel i mean they i mean it's really quite pathetic people are being in fact it and some people are dying but no it's a political cultural that's what the good part of the mainstream media wants the us they're not interested in this virus they're interested in scoring political points in an election year i think i do that i think that was very true at the beginning especially when it was made the current kernel virus outbreak in china became as

we've just heard. the excuse for 9 anti chinese campaign and a horrible one and of course it's now being imported back to the united states was in a campaign against donald trump but of course neither the address the underlying problem of how to deal with the outbreak like this and it seems to me what the coronavirus affair has shown is one you need a strong government and strong will thought routines in a moment of crisis to deal with the matter of a crisis of this nature as china shows china does have such a strong government and that goes back to the question of sovereignty that you are identical on and the 2nd is the basic your entire economy on financial financialization on the financial services and ignoring manufacturing and resources and relying on just in time supply chains from around the world exposes you

to enormous risks and these are points that have been made many times yes you haven't seen. the truck been minister. she is being blamed for this but it wasn't trump that moved all of these factories and jobs in china ok he says the rich know it's easy to blame trump and it's easy to blame the political elites and they are culpable but not trump he wasn't around at the time but you know china quite gladly started building this equipment because it's high value high margin equipment that you can export to the world i mean they're all winter here and i think your point is actually taken here is that this is a strategy to slow that down and to start. truncating their growth which of course is kind of stupid because we've gotten down the path of globalization so much that it china sneezes and i hate using this and. the rest of the world's gets

a cold ok so it's too late to do that ok yeah exactly once over and over this saying what's true concerning the united states when the united states never has. and interest or the world. quite cold. it goes to chinese because they are producing everything practically you know but if it has. another information which you have for the awards widely circulated in american media that google was on microsoft and others. proposed their employees to home and to work from the home you know not at 1st i want. to come back to. the idea here you can have a gated communities but gated gated communities can survive without supply or

food or you know some other kind of services but who is going to provide it and that's where this is very important point that state must be strong and state my story arc. it's kind of. but if i could use me in the american context is that the the the american medical establishment there they're not interested in national security they're interested in shopping that don't get one minute finish it up well i think that we can summarize the. record in the situation from. normal the war all the wall to remember the martians have basically invaded all of the world and then they and they die from a virus they're there that is basically causing people sneak you know so the globalization was so huge there was so much destruction so many wars done and nowhere seen it been done by

a small wire us probably of the one that discouraged the marsh and so you need to well still to be in. the last 20 seconds go to you. i think that we've learned a lot from the corona. outbreak and i think this requires a round change in our economic models and that's not about china it's about us in the west in places like greece and that we have to start looking at our own ways of doing things and we need to change them and that means building back our own industries and not blaming the chinese that we don't have them anymore when we just saw everybody everybody write that down on a little posted and put it on your refrigerator because it's worth hearing that again from alexander mackerras all the time we have done many many things and i guess here in moscow and in london thanks to our viewers for watching us here in our d.c. you next time remember across the. time

of the time corp. repeat the same mantra sustainability very important celery transitions to sustainable price board sustainability stay number may not be more equitable and sustainable well. they claim their production is completely hamas followed dissolute. because. it didn't design the companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away there's a 2nd eldest let's keep going don't even and i mean look. this is the move and news to me doing to me when i'm stunned seemed to be best understood superman in.

the world is driven by a dream shaped by one person with those great. military thinks. we dare to ask. and we're going to fulfill the repeated prophecies apologise to the people and promise to be a new day with all bots the. minute. we really. want.

do you want to. know. 5. well yeah.

for street stocks dive a saudi arabia values to step up oil production after russia's refusal to join an opec production cut trading in futures was halted off by fell more than a day limit to 5 percent for the 1st time since 26 things also this president is in brussels discussing the unfolding migrant crisis of the greek to border by tens of thousands of refugees to remain in limbo and we speak just one of many women who've been forcibly sterilized in south africa with that then knowledge she told us she only found out when she tried to get pregnant. for some reason for i'm no longer needs and they just decided to move me no woman to call.