we did channel 4 in the 1980s knew my boss but what would you say now to the millions who have been inspired by your work the fight for freedom and justice that you've undertaken in your life what would you say to them who are now profoundly pessimistic about the neo liberal response to a pandemic let alone gross inequality around the world won't basically we find. it difficult to come out on the streets because of the nature of this epidemic but i think what the epidemic actually teaches us is that the system under which we live is a proof soundly floor. and it does not alter the world a future that is worth living to put it at its heart i mean the notion that well is the only do not and later they prove the. names and thence to this day and wealthy people will get their way. by saving their lives

i don't write to them that but what about the restaurants the work so i take the new learn broke up into a system which is being enforced now effectively since the eighty's and charge since the ninety's of the last century needs to be dismantled all the countries there are seriously attempting to come to grips with this epidemic i mean macro in france was korea it was election is based on making france to be near liberal state has now been forced to reverse all that and offering 'd to pay the utility beers council tax well you know people not so well off except truth shows that deep down this entirely oh through worst major government the western world. are aware that the system which to be defending and

supporting doesn't work for a majority of people that's the lesson to be drawn after the virus has been tackled there and it should if i may just say one of the countries that are shown no panic because it is prepared for these claims is the tiny island of cuba where cruise ships which are not allowed to land anywhere on joc anywhere are jockeying in cuba being greeted by the population most all and are to be greeted by the doctors and the cubans assuming free medicines all over outstrip them now that is the mob whereas in the west they askin government to side move the to maintain sanctions against iran or venezuela which is still to be incomplete be discussed stick though this is still going on when those in the higher world is facing this crisis in

fairness to morris johnson's foreign office and a stand that the british government have thanked the cuban government for taking the ship the braemar into port but certainly no condemnation from here about the u.s. sanctions on the island i want to get on to some of those other issues a bit later and today's anniversary of the iraq war but you're also a novelist and putting your novelist hat on how do you characterize near liberal culture and art given the fact that most people's cultural imagination of a pandemic is really from hollywood and from films that what we have to go on well i mean you know it's lost both of the culture today of fetus is dominated by a form of neo liberalism switch ill carriages individualists some of 'd the most group has sort of you notice and worship of 1st celebrities then someone will screw me we're. no on television or

a very strong. actor is almost greeted as a dog and this is really deep you know much much worse so. 30 to 40 years so this. proves venice people almost completely from thinking collectively and actually it's not tell by the technology either the old internet revolution that mistake in place encourages individual ism of course it needs i mean the number of people you run into on the buses all the tubes are on pavement so even on their bikes they see you know from the noises of the real world if i can put it like that their eyes sealed off from what is going on around them because they're concentrating on those that are on the singles grange now it needn't be like this but that is what it's become and i think in

it so i'm strange frightening eerie way what we are witnessing now is people beginning to think again beyond themselves holy wall is you know produce the old film like contagion what does that do it just creates korea i mean the thing is not to create fear but to create hope not to create better 70 but to encourage people to be to be active and they is now at the station response to this crisis i mean someone wrote from send up all saying that here or in south korea and in japan the the detainee's testing testing the entire population regularly and not banning contact with each other except physical contact so there. many many different ways of looking at it from

the fact that the chinese themselves the. root ball tipples not a single new peers to be revolted anywhere in the country shows that actually in the interests of who are great people and have been a factor anyway what about the united states where you don't even have 3 outs deeply shocking the richest most powerful country in the world got untreated spock relation because of capitalist doctrine and the one candidate and pinning for a. national health service in the united states is most likely to be defeated but a sleepy joe biden so it's a very weird big job but i think there are lessons to be i think many people will learn i'm saying that if this is what you have to do in emergencies why can't you change the way in we treat live well hollywood at least though is

how a lot of people describe what happened 17 years ago today when the world woke up to the pictures of the u.s. and u.k. bombing of baghdad why is it still relevant what happened in 2003 why is it still relevant to all our lives right now because it's still going on that's the 1st reason that it was 17 years ago it was iraq. and the. torments that are being inflicted on this country the brutality the cruelty the waste of not. doing everything possible to find shias from sudanese one day playing with the shia giving. makes if you're on the central are in the region and then suddenly blaming other forces for no good it it did to. they are targeting iran and they're

. basically using the saudis to control the sunni population. and most important of all just trying the social infrastructure of that country that is will hit it disaster doubtless some as my friend noomi client calls it that it's all day here in iraq they just royal in country and if you think about it today well the entire world is thinking about coronavirus i have absolutely no doubt and i can say this with confidence that the health service created by the iraqi series of iraqi governments was one of the best of the middle east in order to be much better able to cope with this resident the moment in iraq a wall that triggered off another war. in the region. syrian.

war there from created massive movement of populations soon refugees that this war is still going on even as all of europe keep them and is appealing to the united states to withdraw all its troops from the region that is being ignored you talk to many iraqis to do of all political persuasions and they will say it openly we are much better off under us and that is what they say can i just say can i get a dowry if anyone thinks you're an apologist for saddam hussein you made me work on a program in the eighty's about thatcher's support for saddam hussein what is it like actually personally given that you came under pressure over that channel of a program because he was an ally of britain and then over the airlift it's which is a matter for folks we would join for cham for if you remember or serve the architecture of fear and we were it wasn't. cultural political program showing

those who built these giant danticat monumental statues modeled from said oh no i don't like this and dominate it it's above that especially in the military areas the parade grounds and we were doing a critical piece of this and we came under a lot of pressure not to do it i remember. when you or someone else researching that program wrapped up the company in basingstoke in an area in england. which did the baddies big. mate created them and then shipped the monster but it's out of this and why ain't trying this it's affrightedly. so many of us who are pro critical of. when he was actually involved. what then attacked

for opposing a iraq war you live in a strange world priorities are decided your rules are decided depending on whom the united states a settled on as the enemy of the month and disses become an enemy of the poor need be to get its i mean if you think about the iraq war that american soldiers are still that libya has been destroyed that syria is trying to recover from an horrific civil war then afghanistan is still occupied all of these roles of lasted longer than the 1st and 2nd world will pull together and they carry on and what it angers will be is that citizens in most of the western world a europe north america sleep or carefree day basically ignore a lot their governments and their. countries have been doing to the middle east

which isn't as state of. the retreat destruction on many many levels glued it least so should be not only culturally when the those stadiums left with absolutely nothing to basically supported but the united states israel and egypt receiving huge subsidies to this dish for acquiescing in one has been how to make sure the loop. that in some members rebel all sole source. monsters are emerging from the aftermath of this war people who say attack isis that's the ones group who created it how did it come about al qaeda was not present in iraq under saddam hussein and it went in with the american troops and the troops as i look on trees supporting them so it's it's not difficult

to to to draw direct link between the bombing of both berg all those years ago and the state of the middle east today when the united states of course to this day completely did i agree a thing i says day ash tag i'll stop you there more from jericho alley after this short break. the last 10 or 15 years we've heard the era of big data where so much of our reality of our environment of our society is governed by experts interpreting data and now thanks to corona virus this is our being stripped away it's our not that the crowd a virus is now bringing back to america some intuitive sense of self or life is going to be a difficult adjustment don't don't get your art. welcome

back i'm still here with tariq ali you were speaking at rallies the largest global demonstration in history with against the iraq war alas does it not show that protest marches do not stop wars like the one that happened 17 years ago today and what difference was iraq to vietnam because obviously mick jagger and the rolling stone sang about your opposition to the vietnam war how is it different i think the main difference is in what happened to the world in the ninety's in my opinion the fact that the soviet union collapsed that china and the way it did created

a huge wave of demoralized nation evil amongst people who basically didn't serve all these governments but saw them as creating a space between 2 blocks and in that space we can all function and live be critical of one year aside and we want to do ones that counterbalance disappeared the united states' book game vietnam and our. global scale and people failed them and alternatives to the iraq and iraq war demonstrations in my opinion was the 1st sign that people were searching for something else 1st day by saying don't make war on iraq and these demonstrations were huge in your but if we look back on it over a 1000000 people in london 2000000 people in madrid nearly 3000000 in. row

over 200000 to new york hundreds of thousands all over and the phony ship cargo every american city in provincial capital state capital was infected in affected by a desire to stop the war they were ignored and one reason they were ignored is that they had no following and little support in parliament when you have the republicans and the democrats waging war. and supporting it when you have totally black then prime minister in britain the conservative opposition supporting the war then you know you can have 2 to 3000000 people and you know that that's a reality of it and been never came out again and those numbers i remember saying at the big demonstration and. we're all trying to fight against the war don't imagine it won't take place or words to that effect and really more obscure with

this star bombing. where we didn't we couldn't them all satinder but effectively they got away with it but it will be wrong to draw from this the conclusion their protest is useless it may not always be effective but creating a different public opinion is extremely important i am not now and nothing's being us these really occupation has been sanctified by a crime back and terror de facto by the european union days no chance of the palestinians getting any form of state even the most not in the. present time nothing happens the world is. that total ghetto completely wrecked by disease the palestinian authority has got so used to

collaboration with these really that they basically don't know what to do when they oppose what's playing now they participated in creating this situation where the british well it was not a marketplace that's what i say but that doesn't mean we stop arguing your baiting mobilising i mean life would be awful if one just became well the british the labor party his ministers obviously committed us to war in iraq 17 years ago obvious. protecting israel arguably after the after the jeremy corbyn years why do you think that this same labor party as it were is so keen to re-invite people who are associated with the iraq war back even to the party including i mean care started a leading figure once tony blair's head of war propaganda alistair campbell back in the labor party is this opposition party does it understand what you've been saying

well i think there are 2 things one has to see about a party while is the insurrection on little girl insurrection of the young country and we call bill interim our hour as fracture. in my opinion and momentum became exclusively current machine if not exclusively 80 percent of it through our low there mick in addition to that also doing a lot of political campaigning political education etc so that the strength of traditional live gruesome which is that the only thing we do which is we know elections is now back in falls the left was given a chance the left was too treated not even going to ask. searching for why the left was defeated refusing to accept their need was because labor joined him all the parliamentary moorings to prevent

a referendum from being implemented to care starmer let me just say obviously associated according to the un with the persecution of julian a son from whom and because of whom we know so much more about iraq than we have a did back then how frightened are you for julian a science can i just as the founder of wiki leaks given he's in belmarsh prison and governors of prisons in this country obviously are worried about the spread of coronavirus i'm extremely worried about truly moon for many many. i mean initially it seemed that they were imposing a regime regina on him in that prison which could have led to a no the defense that his order number of doctors said and then the governor of the prison. brutish rager who none of the judges wanted to try to change because it's not needle that's the governor's domain which is not so good for breast baring befall them is not in effect state to give evidence they have every

right to challenge. the governor of the prince who julian is deliberately being mistreated the case is completely manufactured new smells so the u.n. report on torture has made a very powerful intervention saying that the what took place in sweden when he was accused of rape something you always deny was offending crap and processed and designed to discredit him and lose or we close relatively successful i think many people seem to prove that but the fact is this accusation against judea on security matters is completely bizarre and everyone else that is the americans knows the only when they can get him back into the states the british and know that this is a political decision it has nothing to do with the law and i'm going along with it

and i hope that some sense prevails when the case goes to the supreme court and this concrete because it is quite shocking what has happened to julian i hope years dharma said were to go to mess a many many years ago has learnt a few lessons. from that and i think this is something wait cheri boris johnson who is being the most of his life or a journalist should understand if you agree to. what the americans are asking you to do i mean today it's a very. exposed war crimes tomorrow it could affect other journalists who spose other things which the united states didn't want to expose and the americans all already have said washington is dead any foreign journalists the u.s. constitution doesn't apply to them so they can pick anyone up and take their him

all over to washington to be trite since most governments do their bidding any certainly the torture has been written about people who watch our interviews with meals well to the un special rapporteur on torture better if one can forgive a media in a coronavirus crisis for not covering the sun is not covering the the continued bombing of iraq backed by britain of by the united states in the past few days. there is that just nation being passed through parliament and if it's not martial law its military immunity legislation what do you think about why boris ronson is keen on personal immunity for british soldiers is that somehow emblematic of british intervention 3 mile island to iraq absolutely. they want to stay out late a situation where british soldiers are immune from. prosecution i mean this is something we've fought against in many countries where the military is also

a little part of the military shouldn't out the simulate te's it's a big call to against in the united states where many energy war activities one to u.s. officers involved in massacres from b it ma'am on routes charge to cry. it is still done to those who the west regards it as their enemies the international criminal court functions just as a court goes who are guarded as any. west so it's i don't own a circle of what is going on well just finally in the when it comes to colonial legacies kashmir is of course their colonial legacy and the sudan the government has again put it under total lockdown we had the high commissioner on this show said it was being freed up a little of course it is the center of a nuclear possible nuclear conflict just tell me what you think about our coronavirus for instance can be used as an excuse to do all sorts of things by

different governments but especially what on earth is happening in kashmir sheer is . the highest incidence of grunow iris afflictions anywhere in india. and the recent focus is that large numbers of fisheries are in prison many are in concentration camps not being given medical aid. from some of the reports out of court from friends they are being left to die and the world still is silent because the world today this world likes moved around magdy and the ship be because they are of their own global strategic planning. on many issues so the schmear is being ignored the lock down on me took place many

months ago when india abandoned its own constitution and effectively said gosh may respond to being degraded and the rest of india very few protests. made of you protest but they were pretty true to us very few our countries backed. me recourse so the question remains like that to me and some today very isolated and you know one feels for them. and the other thing on this i have to. it is that i'm very glad there's an opposition in indiana resistance on the new citizenship morty is implemented and this is quite deep in many provinces but all those people who defend most losen of the citizenship law have remained not all but maybe most of those have remained silent on the question me and the reason they remain silent is because kashmir is regarded as a security issue because of carers immigration which don't play as many years ago

and stopped many years ago do by and large so in the end speak up on that issue mean or as far as bush you mean as. terrible silence as both 80 and i mean beacons we don't live in it d. i mean i more deeply tried to you live in a very noticeable how little solidarity there has been with us over his invite the high commissioner for india back on land the israeli ambassador in london tie got a thank you. that's it for the show will be back on monday as the coronavirus death toll continues to rise to ask theoretical physicist professor brian greene about the cosmic i'm dreaming that surrounds the only animal in the known universe aware of its own mortality humans until then with yourself isolating we're on the front line join the underground by following us on you tube twitter facebook instagram and sat.

as the democrats gear up to officially start their 2020 presidential primary it is fitting to assess donald trump's performance in office a report card of sorts where is he kept his promises and where has he come up short will any of this really matter in november. blushes and. the total morning of each ticket to the host for the team you'll be set it's. not always shifting against. yet i'm. beautiful to go see myself included actually showing you a little bit i was going to have in the scheme. which will be

shown he's. given to us not to the south korean users tell them not to be calm cool and summed up. the money of the british mr bush imo sure but.

deadliest single day june to be pandemic that 627 lives lost in neighboring france police offices their 2nd to quit unless they are provided with better equipment to protect themselves from the virus and volkswagen becomes the latest conduction amid the pandemic is the health crisis puts more jobs at risk to come this hour here not a u.s. senses are accused of insider trading after they sold off their stocks just ahead of the recent. they're just gone.