italy shuts down production of all non-essential goods as the coronavirus death toll in the country surges by almost 800 in a single day and russia sends a plane load of aid to a crisis. in france police officers threaten to quit unless that they are provided with equipment to protect themselves from the. like and become the latest car giant to halt production due to the. breakout of the pandemic ever more jobs. and u.s. senators are accused of insider trading after they've sold off their stocks just before the recent crash. the latest on the stories you can head to our dot com

colleague you know neal he'll be here in about an hour's time but stay with us now for going underground looking at the impact of u.s. sanctions on countries dealing with the ongoing pandemic but if you're watching this in the u.k. political talk show sport is next until we meet again. and we're going underground 17 years of the day the world woke up to the often mouth of the initial bombing the head of an illegal u.s. u.k. invasion of iraq which would lead to tens of millions across the middle east killed maimed or displaced coming up in the show as coronavirus displaces all of the news . for the rolling stone street fighting man if anything has changed since he took part in the biggest global peace protest. 21st century against the

unchecked imperialism the destroyed iraq and destabilize the world plus as the coronavirus pandemic continues to ravage europe what does it mean for capitalism kashmir and the future of the world's most famous publisher julian assange. also more coming up in today's going on the ground but let's go straight to one of the greatest living political activists and writers who has inspired antiwar figures were malcolm x. to john lennon tariq ali joins us from his north london home via skype jack thanks so much for coming on the program i have to declare an interest because you brought me to channel 4 in the 1980 s. and you were my boss but what would you say now to the millions who have been inspired by your work the fight for freedom and justice that you've undertaken in your life what would you say to them who are now profoundly pessimistic about the neo liberal response to a pandemic let alone gross inequality around the world well basically we find. difficult to come out on the streets because of the nature of this epidemic but i

think what the epidemic actually teaches us is that the system under which we live is a sound belief lot. and it does not alter the world a future that is worth living through boarded at its heart i mean the notion that well is the only do not in nature so to prove the survives and then still this state wealthy people will get their way. by saving their lives i don't practice them but what about the risks the work so i take the new liberal capitalist system which has been in full snow expected at least since the eighty's . charmed since the ninety's of the last stage reach needs to be dismantled all the countries there are seriously. tempting to come to grips with this epidemic

i mean macro in france was korea it was election is based on making france ditto premier liberal state has now been forced to reverse all that and offering to pay the utility beers council tax you know people not so well off except for shows that deep down this entire leo through worse wage doesn't the western world are aware that the system which they're being defended in supporting doesn't work for a majority of people that's the lesson to be drawn to the wires as being tackled there and surely if i may just say one of the countries that are shown no panic because it is prepared for these claims is the tiny island of cuba where cruise ships which are not allowed to land anywhere on joc anywhere are jocking in cuba

being greeted by the population most all and are to be greeted by the doctors and the cubans assuming free medicines all over outstrip them now that is them all whereas in the west this didn't come to site move there to maintain sanctions against iran or venezuela which is still to be incomplete be discussed stick though this is still going on when those in the higher world is facing this crisis in fairness to morris johnson's foreign office and a stand that the british government have thanked the cuban government for taking the ship the braemar into port but certainly no condemnation from here about the u.s. sanctions on the island i want to get on to some of those other issues a bit later and today's anniversary of the iraq war but you're also a novelist and putting your novelist hat on how do you characterize near liberal culture and art given the fact that most people. as cultural imagination of

a pandemic is really from hollywood and from films that what we have to go on well i mean you know it's lost them both and the culture today obviously is dominated by a form of neo liberalism which ill courage is individualists some of the most grotesque sort of you know this and the worship of 1st celebrities that someone extremely well known on television or a very strong. actor is almost greeted as a god and this is really deep you know become much much worse over the last 30 to 40 years so this. proves venice people almost not completely from thinking collectively and actually it's not tell by the technology i think that the. internet revolution that mistake

in place encourages individual ism of course it needs i mean the number of people you run into on the buses all the tubes are on pavement so even on their bikes if they're sealed off from the noises of the real world if i can put it like that their eyes sealed off from what is going on around them because they're concentrating on ones that are normal on the singles grange now it needn't be like this but that is what it's become and i think in it strange frightening eerie way what we are witnessing now is people beginning to think again beyond themselves holy wall is you know produce the old film like contagion the waters that could really just creates korea i mean the thing is we lost. really

fear but to create open not to create better 70 but to encourage people to be to be active and they is now at the station response to this crisis i mean someone wrote from send up all saying that here in south korea and in japan the the detainee's testing testing the entire population radially and not banning contact with each other except physical contact so there are many many different ways of looking at it from the fact that the chinese themselves the. root ball tipples numbers in the nucleus that be reported anywhere in the country shows that actually in the interests of who are great people and have been a factor in any way more about the united states where you don't even have 3 elephants it's deeply shocking the richest most powerful country in the world got

untreated spock relation because of capitalists dock on us and the one candidate and being for a. national health service in the united states is most likely to be defeated but a sleepy joe biden so it's a very weird big ship but i think there are lessons to be no i think many people will learn i'm saying that if this is what you have to do in emergencies why can't you change the way in we treat live well hollywood at least though is how a lot of people describe what happened 17 years ago today when the world woke up to the pictures of u.s. and u.k. bombing of baghdad why is it still relevant what happened in 2003 why is it still relevant to all our lives right now because it's still going on that's the 1st reason that it was 17 years ago that was iran.

and the there the comments that are being inflicted on this country the brutality the cruelty the u.s. do not to by. doing everything possible to divide shia from sudanese and one day playing with the shia giving. makes it here on the central are in the region and then suddenly blaming other forces for it no good it they did it and now they're touting iran and they're. basically using the saudis to control the sunni population. and most important to a whole describing the social infrastructure of that country that is will just start out of business a mess my friend near me client calls it that it's all day here in iraq they just strolling to an entire country and if you think about it today where the entire

world is thinking about corona virus i have absolutely no doubt and i can say this with confidence that the health service created by the iraqi series of iraqi governments was one of the best in the middle east in order to be much better able to cope with this resident the moment in iraq a wall that triggered off another wall in the region. syrian. war there created massive movement of populations and refugees that this war is still going on even as autosave peter out. is appealing to the united states to with rule all its troops from the region that is being. nort you'll talk to many iraqis today of all political persuasions and they will say openly we were much better off. that is what they say can i just say can i guess

a terry if anyone thinks you're an apologist for saddam hussein you made me work on a program in the eighty's about thatcher's support for saddam hussein what is it like actually personally given that you came under pressure for that channel of your program because he was an ally of britain and then over the if it's which is a matter for folks we would join for cham for if you remember who was. the architect chair of fear and we were it was an ultra political program showing those who built these gigantic monumental statues of a model from so the old arms went like this and dominated. especially in the military areas the parade grounds and we were doing a critical piece of this and we came under a lot of pressure not to do it i remember. i should when you or someone else

researching that program rack up the company in basingstoke in. it in the loop. which you did to the baddies big arms made created them and then shipped the answer to both that they said why ain't going to sets of credibly. so many of us who are true critical of. when he was actually in our. work then attacked for opposing a iraq war you live in a strange world priorities are decided new rules and decided which depending on whom the united states as settled on as the enemy of the month and disses become an enemy of the poor need to get kids i mean if you think about the iraq war that american soldiers are still that libya has been destroyed that. area

is trying to recover from and retreat civil war then afghanistan is still occupied all of these halls of lasted longer than the 1st and 2nd world will pull together and they carry on and what angers will be is that citizens in most of the western world europe north america sleep or care every day basically ignore the lot their governments and their countries have been doing to the middle east which isn't as state of. the retreat destruction on many many levels politically socially economically culturally and the palestinians left with absolutely nothing and the 2 basically supported by the united states israel and egypt receiving huge subsidies to this dish for

acquiescing in one has been happening surely. since i'm in the us remember all souls of. monsters are emerging from the aftermath of this war people who say attack isis it's the ones group and who created it how did it come about al-qaeda was not present in iraq under saddam was that it went in with the american troops and the troops of other countries supporting them so it's it's not difficult to to to draw a direct link between the bombing of all those years ago and the state of the middle east today certainly the united states of course to this day completely did i agree a thing isis diaster tag i'll stop you there more from jag ali after this short break. for. her.

actions or a little bit messed up by our d.n.a. in some way or another look at me i'm bored that surely isn't such a great thing you know i'm sure you look better now than when he had hair how. long it's nice of you to say so but i went home when i was 25 i knew it wasn't so great then. welcome back i'm still here with tariq ali you were speaking at rallies the largest global demonstration in history or at against the iraq war i last did it not show that protest marches do not stop wars like the one that happened 17 years ago today and what difference was iraq to vietnam because obviously mick jagger and the rolling stone sang about your opposition to the vietnam war how is it different

i think the main difference is in what happened to the world in the ninety's in my opinion the fact that the soviet union collapsed that china and the way it did created a huge wave of demoralized nation which even amongst people who basically didn't support these governments but saw them as creating a space between 2 power blocs and in that space we can all function and live and be critical of one euro side and we want to do once that counterbalance disappeared the united states' book game v. had a moment power in global scale and people follow them and alternatives that the iraq iraq war demonstration in my opinion was the 1st sign that people were

searching for something else 1st day by saying don't make war on iraq and these demonstrations were huge in your but if we look back on it over a 1000000 people in london 2000000 people in madrid nearly 3000000 in rome over 200002 new york hundreds of thousands all over the phone ship cargo every american city in probably. sure look at the state capital was infected and effected by a desire to stop the war they were ignored and one reason they were ignored is that they had no following and little supporting are that much when you have the republicans and the democrats waging war. and supporting it when you have too many black band prime minister in britain the conservative opposition supporting the war then you know you can have 2 or 3000000 people and you know that it's

a reality of it and been never came out again and those numbers i remember saying at the big demonstration they're no longer we're all trying to fight against the war don't imagine it won't take place or words to that effect and really more obscure with this start bombing where we didn't we couldn't them all satinder but effectively they got away with it but it will be wrong to draw from this the conclusion their protest is useless it may not always be effective but creating a different public opinion is extremely important i am not now and nothing's being done. and these really occupation has been sanctified by a crime back and terror de facto by the european union days no chance of the

palestinians getting any form of state even the most not only. the present time nothing happens the world is garcia is that total ghetto completely wrecked disease the palestinian authority has got so used to collaboration with the israelis that they basically don't know what to do when they oppose what's playing now they participated in creating this situation where the british look what happens not a marketplace that's what i say but that doesn't mean we stop arguing your baiting mobilising i mean life would be awful if one just became well the british the labor party his ministers obviously committed us to war in iraq 17 years ago obviously. protecting israel arguably after the after the jeremy corbin years why do you think that this same labor party as it were is so keen to re-invite people who are

associated with the iraq war back even to the party including i mean care started a leading figure once tony blair's head of war propaganda alistair campbell back in the labor party is this opposition party does it understand what you've been saying well i think there are 2 things one has to see about a party what is the insurrection on little girl insurrection of the young country and we all been interim our power as fracture. in my opinion and momentum became exclusively true. if not exclusively 80 percent of it through our low there mick in addition to that also doing a lot of political campaigning political education etc so that the strength of traditional live gruesome which is that the only thing we do is win the election is now back in falls the left was given

a chance the left was defeated not even going to ask. searching for why the left was defeated refusing to accept their need was because labor joined him all the parliamentary moorings to prevent a referendum from being implemented to care starmer let me just say obviously associated according to the un with the persecution of julian a son church from whom and because of whom we know so much more about iraq than we have a did back then how frightened are you for julian assads can i just as the founder of wiki leaks given he's in belmarsh prison and governors of prisons in this country obviously are worried about the spread of coronavirus i'm extremely worried about truly moon for many many. i mean initially it seemed that they were imposing a regime not really cheating on him in that prison which could have led to a no the debt that is what

a number of doctors said and then the governor of the prison. brutish rager who none of the judges wanted to try to change because it's not neagle that's the governor's domain which is not good for breast baring befall them is not an offense state to give evidence they have every right to challenge. the governor of the prince who julian is deliberately being mistreated the case is completely manufactured new cement so the un report on torture has made a very powerful intervention saying that the what took place in sweden when he was accused of rape something you always deny and was defending crap not processed and designed to discredit him and lose all which was relatively successful i think many people seem to prove that but the fact is this accusation

against judy. on security matters is completely bizarre and everyone else it is the americans know it's the only when they can get him back into the states the british and know that this is a political decision it has nothing to do with the law and i'm going along with it and i hope that some sense prevails when the case goes to the supreme court and this concrete because it is quite shocking what has happened to julie and i hope years said were to go to mess a many many years ago has learnt a few lessons. from that and i think this is something wait show even boris johnson who is being the most of his life we journalists should understand if you agree to. what the americans are asking you to do i mean to do it very. exposed war crimes tomorrow it could affect other journalists who spose other

things which the united states didn't want to expose an american soldier already have set washington as did any foreign journalists the u.s. constitution doesn't apply to them so they can pick anyone up and take their over to washington to be crisis most governments do their bidding and eat certainly the torture has been written about people who watch our interviews with meals melt of the un special rapporteur on torture better if one can forgive a media in a coronavirus crisis for not covering the sun is not covering the the continued bombing of iraq backed by britain of by the united states and in the past few days . there is a just nation being passed through parliament and if it's not martial law its military immunity legislation what do you think about why boris ronson is keen on personal immunity for british soldiers is it somehow emblematic of british

intervention a 3 mile island to iraq absolutely. they want to stay out late a situation where british soldiers are immune from. prosecution i mean this is something we've fought against in many countries where the military is also a little part of the military shouldn't out these days it's a big court against in the united states where many antiwar activists want to u.s. officers involved in massacres from beate ma'am on whats charged to cry. it is still done to those who the west regards it as its enemies the international criminal court functions just as a court goes who are guarded as any. west so it's i don't own a social of what is going on well just finally in the when it comes to colonial legacies kashmir is of course i colonial legacy and the sudan the indian government

has again put it under total lockdown we had the high commissioner on this show said it was being freed up a little of course it is the center of a nuclear possible nuclear conflict just tell me what you think about our coronavirus for instance can be used as an excuse to do all sorts of things by different governments but especially what on earth is happening in kashmir issue here is. the highest incidence of grunow iris afflictions anywhere in india. and the recent focus is that large numbers of missionaries are in prison many are in concentration camps not being given medical aid. from some other also calls from friends being left to die and the world still is because the world today this world likes in the romaji and the ship be because they are of their

own global strategic planning. on on many issues so the schmear is being ignored the lock down on me took many months ago when india abandoned its own constitution and effectively said gosh meter is going to being degraded and the rest of india very few protests . made if you protest but they were pretty true to a very few are countries backed. me recourse so the question remains like that to me and some today very isolated and you know one feels father. and the other thing on this i have to. it is that i'm very glad there's an opposition in indiana resistance on the new citizenship movie is implemented and this is quite deep in many provinces but all those people who defend most losen of the citizenship law

have remained not all but maybe most of those have remained silent on the question me and the reason they remain silent is because question is regarded as a security issue because a terrorism immigration which don't play as many years ago and stopped many years ago to by and large and speak up on that so shereen or as far as bush meat is concerned terrible silence as both 80 and i mean we can speak who don't live in it d. i mean i more deeply probably do live in name it's very noticeable how little solidarity there has been with krishna he's over there invite the high commissioner for india back on land the israeli ambassador in london tie got a thank you. that's it for the show will be back on monday as the coronavirus death toll continues to rise too was a theoretical physicist professor brian greene about the cosmic conundrum that

surrounds the only animal in the known universe aware of its own mortality humans until then with yourself isolating on the front line join the underground by following us on you tube twitter facebook instagram and so on. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest on the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see you then. see you as i watch. i. live for. us.