time after time sam we're going underground as the global coronavirus pandemic continues to center on europe bearing all news of the world's worst humanitarian crisis yemen as it faces its 3rd year of a cholera outbreak amid 5 years of u.k. backed saudi aerial bombardment of men women and children coming up on the show as tens of thousands of u.k. subjects face being killed by u.k. government policy on the pandemic we speak to the man responsible for leading the global response to the sars epidemic former world health organization chief professor david heyman tells us that boris johnson's have been astray she is condemning britain's most vulnerable to death and the british government response to the cholera epidemic in yemen was arguably to fight against english courts decide they need to weapon sales were illegal what now for the world's worst humanitarian crisis after years of british armed bombing one of the poorest countries in the world all the small coming out today is going underground

professor u.k. prime minister boris johnson says it's fine to go to work and get on the london tube in a so-called lockdown risking tens of thousands of lives of the u.k.'s most vulnerable citizens that's what scientists from university college london and the university of cambridge said and as the death rate is on par with italy fears a mounting about the competence of the british government that while the small island nation of cuba has arguably been taking it seriously from the start cuba has sent its army of white robes to italy for the 1st time to revolutionize medical treatment inspired by che guevara will britain be next to need help from the communist island for more on this global pandemic is professor david heyman who led the global response to the saz epidemic while he was executive director of the world health organization david thanks so much for joining us so many different model so much information coming out 1st of all your response to this u.c.l. cambridge study saying the u.k. government strategy could mean up to 70000 dead does it make any sense. well modelers use the information they have available at the time and they make

assumptions based on the that information and then they put this into a model which churns out a result and the result can be a maximum or a minimum impact depending on what's done within their government models are useful for public health preparedness they're not necessarily useful for the general public to assimilate and try to understand so what we're seeing is a government which is working based on estimates from many different sources doing its own risk analysis and doing what it feels is necessary to curtail the spread of this virus as are other countries throughout the world and it's really building a ship while it's sailing trying to determine which strategies will work best and the u.k. is trying strategies that it theo are the best to work in the u.k. ok and given information is obviously critical therefore you can forgive say the b.b.c. here in britain for reporting that the science has changed that's how the b.b.c.

reported the different responses over different days from the government to the public in. well the science is coming from many different sources and everybody has access to that because the medical journals actually are publishing information after peer review very rapidly and they're putting it in front of their paywall so that anybody can have access and that access permits countries around the world to take this information and use it in their own national context to do a risk assessment and decide what is within the potential of that country to do to stop the operates and so we're seeing a variety of different measures being used in different countries and none of those are really known to be effective at present certain ones are more effective than others early on but in the long run it's not clear what will be the most effective measures to deal with this outbreak so what actually happened to herd immunity is a policy response for the corona virus because the governments don't seem to be

talking about that although they did talk about britain's rather unique response. well herd immunity is when enough of the population has been infected in developed anybody that the virus stops transmitting so rapidly and can actually stop altogether this happens when you vaccinate children for example for measles they develop antibodies to measles and that prevents measles from circulating in the country but then if it's imported again and people aren't backstage it there can be operates so what herd immunity is is attrition of the enter body by the population over a long period of time that's not a strategy that the government is using as far as i know and it was something that was mentioned by some of the modelers early on but to my understanding was never a goal of the government well it was a report it is the power of the of the hood can protect the most at risk of infection that was reported here on news are going to tell you ok globally then the editor of the lancet the peer reviewed journal here in britain richard orton claims

the countries that will be most resilient will be those with the most equitable universal healthcare systems and any proof of that. well what i think is important is to understand that mortality from this disease and seriousness depends on the number of hospital beds available for the elderly who are greatest risk especially the elderly with co-morbidities so that means a health system which has beds which has isolation beds and which has ventilators will do a better job in saving lives than health systems which don't have that the u.k. i understand has made an agreement with the private sector to increase its beds and at the same time to make sure that there are ventilators available 'd and hopefully that will be sufficient italy has had a very difficult time because of its elderly population and that seems to be the population that has been initially infected with the virus and they've not been able to cope with all these infections and so their hospital system has had to deny

access this is a viable rate of these people who are infected will depend on how well they can be supported within their hospital system we've seen it is only that when the hospital system is over run by the need of patients especially for ventilators they can't accommodate all those patients and unfortunately many of them are dying in italy because they can't get the care that they need in the u.k. there's been an attempt to make a bridge with the private sector to make more beds available in public to the public as well as ventilators and only that will be sufficient to be able to deal with patients in a way that germany for example is dealing with patients able to manage those patients within the health system and make sure that they have a greatest possible chance of survival but where you getting this correlation between number of hospital beds and response to coronaviruses mean british policy under successive governments to reduce the number of beds here in britain in the

hospital system to one of the lowest in the o.e.c.d. countries. well i don't want to compare o.e.c.d. countries that's not my goal here my goal here is to help people understand that number one models are just models they provide an estimate of how many patients there will be the health system has to adjust itself in any way it can to support those patients including possibly temporary rooms for hospital patients and somewhere else and each country has to do it based on their own risk assessment capacities and that's what's important in the u.k. that's what it is important in every country we've seen the example of a country which is overwhelmed with patients in italy we've also seen the same thing happening in spain hopefully the u.k. will be able to deal with this through their methods it's chosen to decrease transmission and i must remind people that it's their responsibility to decrease transmission if we all understand how to distance physically and how also to

maintain a social distance from people and also understand how to protect people if we ourselves are sick we can go a long way to helping the government decrease that burden when hospital beds ok that's a god's other correlations obviously on twitter or in the newspapers they talk about this celebrity or that celebrity with coronavirus is there a plus component in coronavirus susceptibility this far is understood everybody is susceptible to this virus and at the same time everybody has a role to play nobody has antibody or protection from this virus at the start but we can protect ourselves by understanding that we must physically distance ourselves from other people we must at the same time ensure that we don't go to mass gathering events or public events though a lot of people together and it is same time we must understand that if we are sick

we need to protect others especially the elderly but not coughing or sneezing directly on them. and that making sure that if we can we wear a mask we're going to finger sneezing so that we had probably been told to wear maya we haven't been told to wear mosques here in britain i have to say and so-called low skilled workers who we were told about a few weeks ago do you think they are more susceptible because they obviously are working as porches and clean as in hospitals right now that alone frontline n.h.s. stuff and this could be for health care systems around the world we need to be careful about the word susceptible susceptible means people are at risk of an infection where as there is high risk means if they're in a bad in a in work which creates a greater risk than other people have of getting infected so we're also sceptical we all have different risks of being infected and health care workers and those working in hospitals have a great risk presumably that if you live in

a cost well you're better off oh we had lawyers are actually trying to appeal for the release of julian the sons from a prison here in london what do you think are the dangers in the prisons of the world as regards coronavirus well there's great concern for prisons there's great concern for refugee population and there's great concern for the elderly in nursing homes because all those populations have one thing in common they're in confined spaces where they if there are infected people they will not be able to physically distance enough to prevent infection of themselves and so they will be great at great risk of infection they work is trying to figure out how to decrease the risk for these prisoners or people 'd in refugee populations and for people in homes for the elderly so do you think it be a worthwhile would it be worthwhile to release nonviolent offenders from prisons

because it would endangered prison populations and overseas visitors. well that's not for you or i to decide that's for the government decide to decide as they make their risk analysis and decide which populations are greatest risk and how they might deal with those risks while a cuba is being that trialing interferon be in china and l.v. the doctors have been arriving in italy president trump was very excited about anti-malarials like hydroxy chloroquine we now having some reports of a death actually in the united states for people overdosing on it what are the dangers of hydroxy chloroquine ok there have been many trials of different drugs throughout the world and the risk of taking those drugs without knowing if they're effective is that all these drugs have side effects and so if you're taking a drug with side effects and those side effects are greater than the effectiveness of the drugs that you're being that you're using you might cause yourself more harm by using that drug what's going on now there are studies of or when there's studies

of many different drugs that have been studied in the laboratory shown to be effective been shown to be effective tacitly in humans but those studies have to compare a group that receives the drive to a group that doesn't receive the drug and then there has to be a statistically valid population that's been studied to make any conclusions about whether that drug is useful and then you can begin to see whether the side effects of the drug are less important in the usefulness of the drug or vice versa so it would be very wrong for any patient to sell subscribe to sell prescribe any medicine in person at present they must be listening to what the medical profession tells them president thank you after the break 5 years to the day if you came back to saudi bombing of yemen before a cholera outbreak killing thousands of civilians and with 20000000 without access to basic health dept will it cope with kovac 19 we go to the world's worst

humanitarian crisis the poorest country in the middle east attacked by british warplanes and bombs all the similar going up about to go. underground. banks kind of financial survival john today was all about money laundering 1st to visit this campus into 3 different. oh good this is a good start well we have our 3 banks all set up here maybe something in europe something in america something overseas in the cayman islands and it will all these banks are complicit in their tough talk received a softer didn't phone and say hey i'm ready to do some serious move under ok let's see how we did while we've got all got a nice luxury watch for max and for stacy old beautiful jewelry and how about. luxury automobile again for max they know what money laundering is highly illegal.

much keyser because. your government and our government and all the other major governments of the world know what's going to happen and when it's going to. but they haven't told you and they haven't told me they haven't announced. imagine something as big as the earth is going to cause tidal waves earthquakes volcanoes erupt and it's going to chill. so very for a while right. my great grandfather's quote. nobody would care about the law or prison so you'd have wallace this should have. a terrible life between now and.

welcome back 5 years ago today saudi arabia armed to the teeth of british killing machines advised by british soldiers launching airstrikes on the poorest country in the middle east yemen and while britain today sits in fear of a virus yemen has continued to be the target of british weaponry as it fought the world's worst ever recorded outbreak of cholera with tens of millions facing the world's worst humanitarian catastrophe i'm joined now from our studio in sanaa by the chairperson of the watch our organization for human rights would who are called thanks so much idea for coming on actually before we even get to coronavirus just remind us what happened 5 years ago today when british warplanes in the saudi air force bombed your country in 2014 in september 2014 hoshi's they control the capital. by force so the idea of war was there in the mind of people

but very few people none of people expected them military intervention from many countries ready so the moment when people. heard the sound of airstrike was like a nightmare and people will not even understanding what's happening and what's going on oh was another turning point over the war in yemen that is not expected by many many people. well obviously your group is not affiliated to any side except human rights while britain has supplied weapons to bomb civilians in your country what what now is the threat of coronavirus given the damage to health infrastructure in yemen by as i say bombs manufactured here in britain yeah so arms trade is as a keep your point in the war in yemen because the international community like

especially u.k. u.s. and france they can do a lot to stop the war in yemen and he keeps saying that peace in yemen is always have possible and never happens and i'm straight as one of this. so through 5 years of war. by who thiis by the yemeni government by the saudi and i'm out of that coalition that supported by the u.s. u.k. and france in many ways one of them is selling weapons. with a very limited infrastructure in yemen that we already have has been destroyed and we in want and with the physicians for human rights just released a report. about attacking that medical facilities through the 5 years and we documented 120 incidents where medical facilities health workers were attacked by all parties to the conflict so we are not reedy to

receive new kind of disease and coronavirus was not. able to be faced by very developed countries like us in europe and so what's going to be happened in yemen where all the health. i mean health system is collapsed because of the war because of the airstrikes by the saudi an american that coalition because of ground shelling by houthi is because and other armed groups loyal to the heidi government . so it's going to be another the. different disaster if caught on of violence the virus arrived to yemen and yemenis to fight hearing about virus well i should say the british government says the weapons sales are regulations here are the most robust in the world and like the british come just for an english court decision to be able to try and sell more weapons to the war

when you talk about growth of virus is it going to be difficult when coronavirus strikes for the yemeni people to. take measures given they've already had to cope with cholera diptheria measles and dengue fever and as you say the health care system has been bombarded yeah human is they couldn't cope even with cholera they have died. they couldn't cope with many many normal diseases that are people in the in the wards can be treated from easily they couldn't call it will just kill us and . i say the international i was i was outside yemen for one month for one year until months of doing advocacy in many countries including the u.k. and i kept emphasizing that the war in yemen can be can be solved. especially if there is a serious pressure from the international community in their allies and all in all

parties to the conflict but the never happens they kept in estates and weapons to their allies so saudi's an immunity is i mean u.k. and u.s. and france and i think that the coronavirus can be it is another disaster in yemen but also it can be a chance to stop the war in yemen it's another reason to stop the war in yemen as of earlier in the week there were no coronavirus cases but oaks from the ngo is saying that cholera may start increasing again in april. just tell me about the worst ever recorded outbreak of cholera on record so in 2018 there were. it was outbreak of cholera for and 2000000 people and there was many difficult cases and always very very difficult to control the call cholera but i think it's very early to feel relaxed that yemen will not face the threat of cone of virus i

hope that corona virus will never arrive to yemen but it's very early to say this and you can see this fact in the in the faces of all yemenis they are terrified about the coronavirus they talk about it every day and many. i mean n.g.o.s. public says 60 years they they give like a vacation for their employees because of this and many things and you can see in yemen that they really don't care about anything and they are very familiar with the idea of defend this is. they are scared from coronavirus and they are trying to protect themselves even before it arrives because they know that yemen doesn't have the capacity to protect them if something happened like this. of course here in europe obviously boris johnson in the united states john trump huge health care

provisions are being created for the coronavirus over here do you think yemenis are going to think it's one rule for countries selling the weapons to bomb your country and another for those children who may be killed by the disease or elderly or vulnerable in yemen by coronavirus yeah and i hope that the u.s. and europe. are going to be creative in facing criminal virus in yemen by putting a real pressure to stop the war in yemen they can do it the only pressure that happened from the international community just of the war in yemen have been after the hush of the murder that have been for political reasons but it led to stockholm agreement so it just proved that the international community when ever they want to do something serious in yemen they can do it but they don't care and the war is it's created now in the ground in in yemen for no reasons there is a huge lack of accountability in yemen and all parties to the conflict they trust

impunity more than anything else and because they feel that they have the green light from the international committee nothing happens from the international community seriously to stop the war in yemen when i say international community i mean states because in geos and many media outlets they already did what they can what can be done to should light in the war in yemen but states they did nothing and they're not even trying to to do they try they deal with yemen like a chess let's move this to here and this group to here and this group to have they never believed that to we deserve a states that based on the rule of law and even democracy this is what the yemeni people want but the international committee and not putting enough pressure in parties of the conflict and specially on saudis and emirates is to go. forward to peace so the only way to be creative in yemen. is to stop the

war this will might help to avoid a crisis like a virus if it happened in yemen otherwise it's just the whole world will just watch yemenis dying maybe even in the streets. i know 20000000 people don't have basic health care but saudi arabia and the u.a.e. and britain and the usa they're actually giving lots of aid or be it as well as they are supplying arms to the conflict you have enough paracetamol little ungrown of ours testing kids yeah i'm not sure about the figure but the idea of giving aid in one hand and. encouraging the war in the other hand is just ironic and it it's funny even the only way that can help yemenis is to stop the war aid can also a can only a fill the gaps but you can't help 30 millions of people by providing

humanitarian aid why the whole state is collapsed this will never work the only thing that can work is to stop the war and to go to peace process and help yemenis to have a state again this is very possible and it's needs to just i mean the i'm straight it's part of it there is a lot of work against arms trade. because of the word in yemen and yemen it turned to be like a headache for those who are selling arms to saudis and teasin in general but in spite of this still the war is going on and arms trade still going on in different ways and this is because of the lack of accountability not only in the yemeni level or is in a level but also in the international level there should be a strong work to enhance income accountability internationally this will help to

protect yemen not only now but also in the future and it will help to protect even other countries in war zones if it's unclear right now as regards testing kits and piracy them all obviously it's going to be hard. the self isolate people are self isolating here in britain when war planes with pilots trained by british soldiers are flying overhead would you call in britain just stop selling weapons and also to stop maintaining the warplanes or they can no longer fly and maybe bomb your country so the u.k. should not only stop sinning weapons they should do their efforts to stop the war and they are been holders and the and the human fire and they can do much more than stop sinning we've been so the 1st indicted thing they should do is to stop sinning wimbledon's and to stop maintain the war in military and the military level but also they should do their critical of 1st to stop the war in yemen and to push in

their allies and they can do it so in in yemen it's not only that the whole system is collapsed many people they don't even have the water. to clean their hands and you can't in other countries you can put people at home but many for millions in yemen if you put them at home they would just die they don't have source of money to buy enough food for them they have to go out and war so it wouldn't it would not to work to protect yemenis from a virus for example that traditional way that's happening everywhere it's going to be another death it's whether to death in your home from starvation or to die from cordona virus so the it's not on these it's a stop cynic weapons but to do a serious pressure on political work to stop the war in yemen right i would welcome thank you and that's it for the show will be back on saturday with national day of

action the palestine is going to virus what's known as the largest open air prison camp gaza guarded by soldiers armed with record you have a weapon sell to israel until then all the news not covered by the mainstream media joining on the ground by following up on you tube twitter facebook instagram and some. from donald trump in 2016 to 2020 there is part of the electorate that responds to can tie war anti interventionist rhetoric in fact there is evidence to significantly help get trampled like that but the fact remains the establishment is keen to downplay any been demonized any candidate who questions all support the dolphins. know what i'm going to be out there so i don't think about it at all many grown men not new dorp or. kind of where i wonder. if

i'm not good now i think it's higher than our. members who are sick of mafias ways they're safe and quick to europe but once they. leave the country each util. will not some of them leave your mom and i couldn't you know. this you need to get it out in. the soil the. core of the. was the kid even then all.

right. in the headlines for moscow this wednesday 25th of march spanish doctors say the medical system in the country is a breaking point with the surging of. overwhelm spain is now the 2nd worst nation in europe behind distantly. anger and wish sadness a very difficult to handle. russian president patients and medical staff on the front line of a coronavirus moscow 'd looks at measures to avoid a so-called at least scenario. help is on the way. big help and quick.