alex i mean if you contrast the visit of pope john paul the 2nd 79 when over a 1000000 came tonight to a mass and the more recent visit of pope francis where to my mind when one t. shirt for a greater than here furtively surge of holiness are really really welcome but don't be touching anything because it's not yours anymore you know and 100 years removed i think we look back and say that the old universe battle cry of home rule was wrong rule had a certain validity but that validity has gone and in the same way that northern ireland was created to have a protestant majority that has gone to we are a minority we are a country of minorities and it's not even a question in some unions quarters of why are we going to react to that it's a step back from that do you even realize that this is annoyed the case and then once we absorb that fact high are we going to react to it and to my mind we react to by looking at it as an opportunity and truly embracing the diversity that we

tried to celebrate of the belfast good friday agreement from 1988 so perhaps some of these initiatives you seem to be trying to build a center of global and or politics between the s.-t. o.-p. nose to unionist party to be a rival to the should unfeigned d u p jew or pally. would you be more amenable now in the present circumstances than perhaps there were a few years ago i think perhaps and i judge that on the evidence of the surge for the alliance party the middle ground party last year in the european and the local government elections where they did incredibly well what i was trying to say back and back in 2017 was that you've had 10 years and i of the deep ancient fane running our coalition government of storm and castle. you don't need any more evidence that they can't get on that they can't cooperate that they cannot deliver for you so let's have an alternative and the alternative has to be not one party

but one unionist party and one nationalist party so that was ourselves and the s.-t. o.-p. and when i looked at colm eastwood when he took over the s.e.l.p. i heard him saying what i was saying which was we need to make northern ireland work and when i sat on and spoke to him it was the same measurements the quality of the health service the education system the infrastructure and prosperity so i find a lot of common ground politically with calm and given the fact that we have this mandatory coalition that we're in to par sharing is the only way to go forward that was a proposition to put to the people maybe it was 2 years too early which is one of the messages of the christian selection in terms of northern ireland and for that matter of the federally election in the republic is that the people wanted more attention to mange of nothing as would sales go on the bread and butter issues the health service nor now of the housing crisis in the republic what do you take from that if that was the message that the voters nor from so we're delivering i would

say from that that we're getting which are about our quality politics we realise that the constitutional question is not the be all and end all i believe that what we should be doing is trying to make northern ireland work irrespective of whether that is to make us more attractive to the rest of night or kingdom to stay in the u.k. or whether your ultimate destination. to get some sort of a united ireland if if we fix the health service the education system bring in the infrastructure which which will make our economy stronger that is more than a lifetime's political activity as far as i'm concerned so it's not for me it may not even be for my children might be for my grandchildren to make the call on the constitutional question but let's work on all that in the meantime and what i've never understood about sinn fein to lead the charge for united ireland is that they've always described northern ireland as a failed state that well if we're going to have a united ireland the people of the republic after a vote for change. what is attractive about it saying to those people will you vote

to adopt 1800000 really high maintenance people half of whom don't want to be members of a united ireland some of them might even get quite violent abroad. and who live in a failed state. what school attracted to vote i want them as part of my country it's taken the republican 100 years to get comfortable in its own skin so why disrupt all out why turn all those tables over by adopting northern ireland under those circumstances from the vantage point of no moment the republicans a northern theocratic state a successful state no looks rather more attractive than when i was growing up you knew you'd cross the border because the roads got worse and you were living in a state controlled by a church and these days the roads get better and you're going into a country that is much more progressive and you could argue than the northern ireland but i would add for our unease in

a paradox irony number one the biggest obstacle to united ireland as i grew up was the ira because their bones and their bullets represented the coercion unionism would never give and our only true you're going to zation probably doing most to promote a united ireland today for the democratic unionist party their policies not only supporting bracks it but also their tone and their attitude or really bad for the long term future of the u.k. irony 3 the biggest break on our show unity is probably the irish political establishment fianna for elephant a gale both know that nobody is ready and the 4th army is that after decades of unions looking over their shoulders thinking that irish nationalists with a enemy. it's not even scottish national center for english nationalism is the biggest threat to the future of the united kingdom and the paradox is unionists who who analyze abraxas referendum know food well that the lesson for

a border pool in our shooty is don't go to the polls until you've thought through the implications of change the nth degree. and yet those same people will say to you don't debate and public don't talk about it because the more you talk about it the more likely it is to happen. that's fascinating stuff so where are we we're where for these for i base that in the big paradox there's no going to be a border of some sort of customs border in the eye of the sea with the south leave you newsom in the medium term that leaves us feeling as as we often do friendless betrayed and totally on certain about our future nationalism is always a boat a process we're on the road to something unionism is always looking for a full and final settlement whether it was partition in the 1920 s. or the belfast good friday agreement in 1908 we're always in search of something that says here is stability and here is certainty going forward and bracks it was

never going to deliver that it was always going to be exactly the opposite so i've never understood why any unionist who thought it through would support a bracks a referendum because quest start a few weeks ago when you co-sponsored an anti sectarianism report and you give the analogy about eunice being. like a frog tell us tell us what you meant by that well it's a story i read awhile ago about a particular type of frog and the characteristic of the frog is if you put it in a pan of cold water and really really slowly bring the water up to boiling point. the frog dies because it doesn't realize that the environment around it is changing in a way that represents an existential threat and my concern is that unionism could be frog the all certainties of go on the environment is changing the demographics are changing in northern ireland we're not a minority and the demographics who traditionally support the s.-t. o.-p.

and shin fein are on their way to becoming a majority you've got scotland looking for independence you've got this rise of english nationalism. all these things are going against us and you've got the d p who in my analysis are doing nothing to try and promote the union i think they're tactical but they're not strategic think about the confidence and supply when when that chance result in the general election left them holding the balance of power they ask for a 1000000000 or a 1000000000 and a half points short term brilliant that's money into our economy into our public services but long term what's the damage with english nationalists because they look at that and they say 26 years after your cease for us why are you a special case anymore why do you need money for your hospitals when we need money and that 1000000000 and a half you know that's acute hospitals that's probably is on the beat in england that's classroom assistants that's boris johnson language slip in the logic of

a few are knowledgeable from the union or some of the thinking about it given the me jim tell most we should be cutting a deal no it isn't universal menorah now never going to be in a stronger position to say it taught at least debate terrapins with the republic this moment as opposed to waiting for another 20 years when unison is going to be a much smaller natural what if political change is coming we've gone way beyond the binary of the status quo of staying in the u.k. as is or that traditional sense of creating a 32 kind to unitary state there are all sorts of other possibilities as to wreck rulers joint authority there is no one country 2 systems not popular given that the hong kong model these days right through the reporting on this probably 6 or 7 options are not advocating for anything but making northern ireland work. but

people need to realize that there's not a binary anymore in the same way that the population of the country isn't a binary we're not all either protestants or catholics unison nationalists there's a big group called other very own poor dick term for them but it is the others who will decide our future constitution and what would you say to members of the unionist community what do you really imagine serve a single economic entity in ireland the violent or to members of the nationals community who might be concerned about the disappearance of the european community or union overview of the belfast agreement can both communities simultaneously be fearful of the future than 1009 $108.00 agreement said that we self defy our identity we can be british we can be we can be both we can be whatever and there's no hierarchy anymore being british isn't more important or better than being a us. what

a lot of nationalists but some unionists as well thing happened and that referendum was an english national scheme and over there and did exactly what the agreement said could never happen and denied them their sense of european us so there's an all still poor from from the last century john hewitt who refused to define himself in a binary term he said i'm an austrian but i'm also a rush british and european and he went on to say what was important he said if you deny any part of that you diminish who i am and that's what a lot of people felt after the press that referendum people from northern ireland who wanted to remain part of the e.u. and feel european they felt at the internet had them in the way the agreement said could never happen and they felt to manifest so we're talking about people who if you went to them in your 1st question was would you like to see a night of that and some day they would say yes but that's an aspiration. if your

2nd question was will you join us to be an activist they will say no i'm too busy too busy earning good money having my children well educated just enjoying life to people that which flag flies for storm but after the 24th of june 26th the answer to the 2nd question is where do i sign up my next button the subject of party of steve brought along a quick no there's only one stipulation here this whiskey obviously the queen has to be scotch either side the stuff not for saw a lot of what was fair thing else oh that's so big challenge for you sir are acts thank you i'm going to know your friends nationalism unions thank you very much indeed heretofore beautiful yes black bush you look very well and. might nesbitt represent a strong foot in the door modest assembly but the worst parliamentarian for the same can state and see as jim sherman joins us off the break to fight though a very different view of the future of unionism.

the stock market and i can imagine trading in a 1000 again on the dow and that would be an appropriate level given the true underlying economic factors the bond market interest rate should be 45 percent in the 30 day interest rate ok that would mean bonds would be down 506070 percent but that's that's something that's return to normal valuation and that's what we need.

your government and our government and all the other major governments of the world know what's going to them when it's going to. but they haven't told you and they haven't told me they haven't announced. imagine something as big as the earth. is going to cause tidal waves earthquakes volcanoes erupt and it's going to chill. so very for a while right. my great grandfathers. nobody would care about the law or prison so you'd have lawlessness should have. a terrible life between now and the. welcome back i continue my conversation in the future unionism in northern ireland

with jim shannon the member of parliament for strength. so shannon welcome back to the early silent you are very pleased to be here in belfast as well wow you come to us it. used to be interviewing me in the green motel you obviously looked at the house of commons but lots of course is appropriate because the assembly is back and running and storm and yeah how important a development do you really are i think it's crucial i think it's critical i think the election before christmas told us just how critical it was we all got that's not the election and listened to or majorities and and my kids and force me off to all their colleagues and i think as an indication i knew a week into the election that we were we were the sort i was different i said that the likes and even the shellback of pain and the workers and comforters i says as i said the different likes and the people who are noida dissent may not work and they're noisy but the health service they're not about education not about rules so

you as a west coast a member of parliament you find yourself campaigning just before christmas in the west most of the election people so you were not going to vote for your german because that assembly should be up and running i think some people decided they were going to vote for us but there were all those who told us they weren't happy either and i knew they were giving us our vote this time round. and we thank them for that at the end the day they were saying look get there someday work and get the health minister pike get the health department back do it at the school a longer i think people were say and i had a sense because by correct rooms and one thing i was was clear and hard to come to the impasse that we hada northern ireland we reflected on our new move very quickly yeah one foresaw held by the normal sort of 3 who seem to believe that the neighboring rule in doing that and then got the sack for these payments. personally

my i had some fairly strong comments with. smith the new south i also recognize. hard work and when the effort put on he certainly had a measure you cite very very carefully the measure of the political parties the measure of the of the irish republican as well and their ministers and to show off i think he would been better in my opinion if he had a stayed to oversee the political process the next 2 years ago will be a someday like for 2 years so between now and the end i think it's important that we had someone who the parties had did not always agreed with but probably they respect that. personally i think of a better if he stayed but he's moved on the reasons for that are better known to the prime minister and probably to him. to be dominant cummings lose the i'm so nice pulling the strings here i think the new surgeon instead of still a capable guy very boy boris johnson we'll see how it goes but he needs to hold out

working relationship with the parties i think can spend. i hope that they present circumstances see him working relationship on the symbol their standing with all of the agreement but where to be a little if we're going to agree but it's not entirely perfect it's not a perfect for all so we're not happy with everyone but it's just better to get back to work it's almost a it's better to have a hold on a credible minister for education a cut a moment for health i mean i said earlier on there's been written between 808-0000 people waiting for appointments for assessments for operation of a population of one point yet 1000000 829-0000 people waiting for appointments and assessments and so on just to some work the fact that matter is that the health service could not have went on was still going to be it was it's good to have a bigger share of places a comfortable but you know experience politically and i've observed many members of parliament from my own but westminster over the years and you probably more than

any other single. be noted for pursuing what's called the bread and butter there's a poet this was your health and education should be unusual more. often because when assembly was up and running with assembly we're dealing with that and the constitutional issue oversee a lot of the troubles the violence the model loomed large and question of you and i'm just interested in your experience is that the demand from the public cannot allow it to get the same would back up and running was a demand to address issues like the. i think anyone who was in a company until before christmas and at westminster elections. from very well known i got it i got it regularly i respond to what the people tell me and i try to keep in touch with the grassroots as always will i like for bread and butter issues suppose me that very beginning when i 1st went to come to 1905 the bread and butter issues were always me i don't get the interaction with people and i got that the

opportunity had there for a little dialogue i thought the opportunity at the assembly and have the opportunity at westminster so what party spokesperson for health party spokes person a human rights party spokes person on quality issues and also on paid the popular books and pensions so they keep you really in touch with your people and you must aleut when you. leave the public alexion you know unfair but you must look to that and thought well it's quite interesting seems to be these sort of issues which are really expected dominating that campaign were hosting in particular america was an enormous issue which to many we set the pace of the yeah i started to believe that . doesn't deal with the political parties but one political party and i just happened to be shunned fee and resonated with the populace and they were probably for observation to look at other from the outside then and assume to me that you know you could talk about perhaps that as much as you want and something as you

after say that and my own action back in december. most people were not talking about breakfast they were talking to me about those bread and butter issues they were talking about the state of the union and those are the critical issues so whenever i looked at the at that they are likes in the republic of ireland i can understand exactly what's happened the big parties said they were going to address how you can set up an address homelessness the city can address the health issues well people believe that they hardened and they look for someone new that could do the hard. and got a substantial vote but the democratic unionist party moved from a position because of the christmas election from one of the normal sinful is that we're supposed to effectively holding the fate of the government in the palm of your home to one of us i totally majority of ity boris johnson is putting the customs border in the eye of the sea and he's not a suspect going to be convinced by the u.p.a. peace to change his mind. we're living in

a new word here. and the new king there and he's got a massive majority we don't have the influence we had prior to their likes and is going to need a seat majority can basically do what he wants a set of steven far away young people north to him when he moved and i am saddened by the pain in the 1st for the 1st day before 33 votes and they covered the majority of it in 92 and 96 i said stephen see that tonight also we're going to be flying over the next 5 years he may get used to it we're not in have any fun friends and here upon them they will pursue their party policies they are what they want to see change and so i think we have to. observe. that we don't haave on prince anymore and we accept art and we're 2 people to it as well we're too young peacetime from our town don't see it and we have to also accept a political reality of art doesn't mean that we can have and fears i think maybe we are and i for i was 16 we saw war before the election.

we've been treated and released into the board in the r.t.c. and but to be quite a tame to to. get over that in a way our learn to live with it perhaps is a better way to put it. and i think maybe i'm on my people my constituents were very sore about it as well. described boris johnson as the guy who picture all station dog for a walk. i think is or it was not you know i didn't feed all right for a long time you know but we are building there for bass and chips and i we are. the arctic and tame the m.p.'s to come and speak to us assumes that we've got a source that we probably experience and that they knew we were that they're now looking to see what they can do to make it better what they can do to work alongside us and i think maybe from that point of view alex i think we've got some some possibilities i always look for the best in people who are not my nature. and

i think maybe with a nice hip majority the might be a wee bit more gracious we've got more bite them in the us and we've got more understanding because we can afford to pay well i would say that it would also a lot but i live in the hope that the party and they can service and protect i remind them regularly that they are the conservative and unionist party and i try to remember what it means to be a unionist it's not just a paper thing with us as a star life we want to be in the larry king live great britain and northern and southern ontario equal part or not. and foresee profit this one time i don't believe we are. so let's talk about the $610.00 new of ireland effectively being an economic entity which is going to be different in some ways from. the u.k. as an economic entity what are the implications of what do you look at who really

couldn't do your starting for. a crystal ball of what's going to help move so you see 10 years as well to the. i think the one thing that we perhaps may be hard some influence on and not see the north not to sound like the north to something and then france and what direction it takes but again we don't have a majority. still have a majority in the northern assembly anymore it will have a tory at westminster either you know the m.p.'s who are like that not from the hand so things have changed mathematically there is a demographic change of population and those who are you know still see themselves as nationalist i think we've got a reminder that not every person who votes niceness is necessary and i stress civil scotland if you don't mind me saying. i think the unionism sales should be reassured but not. up attacked for our border pool go up

a tight for puerto pull giving any sort of a change whatsoever. and i think but his government are quite clear they don't want to see the border pulling and i think now we have the republic of ireland who don't want to see the border poor either. so we're supposed to look where we could be about the referendum in scotland who knew as i know and will for a good flurry be agreeable there was provision in theory for a 7 year quest to be law and i would if you ever thought i should just get up and spray cousteau's gardens but knowing them so for you probably doesn't know look i'm one who believes in the union my people believe in that's the most important as she what's more important bracks and over the last election for my people and they're the installations that i did through the orange contacts and john wright the big issue for them was the union all the political parties were told very clearly what they wanted 70 packin working health trast education advanced rule to trast all the

credibility hub understeers and they. what if they can they can ask for a change. i believe i reflect that opinion not a participator they want to work in a sound way that i caught out that's more to make sure that happens and the numbers for the next 2 years like it's very important to take to shallop like you very much my pleasure you're always good to see you are the one here to hold the pleasure was a pleasure as we have seen today there is news thinking underway in northern irish unionism but certainly as yet no agreed forward some believe that even post breaks it the line can be held on cross community support for the union but others argue that this is the time to negotiate a new settlement before demographics move it deem a plea in favor of unite his arm and next week we turn to the national politicians and community campaigners and ask what conversations are being held to reconcile all of northern ireland to a time of likely politically ascendancy of the nationalist community but for now

from alex myself and all the team is good bye and we hope to see you all day. you. know when i'm going to be out there so i don't think about it at all many of us at home and not near our bar. i kind of but i wonder. if they now i

think it's have been. members of the african mafias safe and quick passage to europe but once they. leave the college speech util. will not some of them leave you know my home and i couldn't you know if this unit can get it out in. the soil the. concord of the. cost of a sauna but a kid even. in

the headlines from all school this thursday march the 26 fronts announces a military driven operation to clamp down on the spread of covert 19 as the global economy tries to batten down the hatches and survive an ever growing public. reality strike a paying. called in italy as the nation comes to terms with the scale of the. one church in the north has been turned into a storage unit for the dead. the u.k. court denied wiki leaks founder julian assange despite him not currently serving a sentence of a corona virus outbreak in president. we hear from his legal team. because the solicitor.