i was basically laughed at like died as not as you thought i mean a starter's sell my suggestion to people who have health issues they can't figure out if they're going to see a medical professional and they've been going for 10 years and they're still in the same place they should probably take it upon themselves to start testing things out testing out diet testing out exercise and trying to figure out things on their own . dr mehmet oz joins us for an end one on one on this edition of politicking. welcome to politicking on larry king to mehmet oz joins me an old friend for an end def discussion mainly on his advocacy for the emmy malarial drug the president trump is calling a game changer dr oz as the cardiothoracic surgeon and

a host of courses the a mentally popular dr oz show you joins me from new jersey dr before we talk about this drug what's the effect of long term confinement on people men mentally and physically because for all going through it what we know about a lot of things what's the effect on us. well this is actually studied in rwanda which had the longest largest quarantine ever and that 60000000 people one point down to 11000000 quarantine for 11 weeks just released this week as a town the question and we looked at the emotional physical well being the number one thing they noticed over and over was depression i mean in a large percentage of the population we are hardwired to be social we're supposed to be out and about our brain grew the size that it grew so we can process each other's faces are hear the voices you don't need to go hunting with a big brain many they connect with each other and that's why we have a big brain and so it's very difficult to spend prolonged periods of time out of

sorts and out of touch with each other i actually worry 'd especially for the older population because we know connectivities critical there and they're the ones most at risk but they're the ones who benefit the most from being sheltered in place against solitary confinement would be the only thing comparable or a. bit go on the one benefit is we now have technology keeps us hooked into each other mute i can speak from our homes i'm in my basement you're in your palatial facility in the specially. estate but there nevertheless you know we're finding new ways and i think what's what's uplifting for me and i suspect you feel this way too is the remarkably adroit way that people find a way of getting by you know the new normal it's trance but it works i've got 4 kids and they're all helping me tape by the way we know one of them does tech support one does her make up like my oldest daughter daphne this you know was host the dish for me on my show big time chef she does quarantine kitchen maid on my by

my wife make sure i'm dressed righton you know i haven't had a haircut that's what they are lacking but it works he said to get the whole family to collaborate in a way they haven't had a long time. i got to the subject at hand what is hydroxy chloroquine what is that. why russia couric when is it medication and it's causing couric would have been used for decades for malaria treatment and blair of course is huge loss of life in history and for since 1055 this drug has been approved in the united states for that purpose it's also widely used in this country for the treatment of lupus and some rheumatoid arthritis it effects the immune system response it's it's widely used for a bunch of reasons one of which is that it's believed to be very safe i was told by a dr dale wallace who's a butt of one of the most prestigious rheumatologist the country heads a cedar sinai program in los angeles that they don't even have guidelines for side

effects because they're relatively uncommon but in theory you'd want to watch out for things like the heart which and you know other than that there are some rashes and allergies and the like but because it's believed to be so safe it's used widely and it turns out that it might have an effect against this virus now there's theoretical reason to believe that is to look at and test it with but also different clinicians have noticed that patients with lupus taking this medication don't seem to get the coven 1000 virus as often or if at all in china the initial researchers didn't notice there was any infection in that patient population so they got excited enough to start to try different clinical trials and they're doing a randomized clinical trial for 62 patients and they showed 66 a significant improvements in the time to a fever resolved time till their cough resolved to close to classic symptoms of cope at 19 they also showed that on c.t. scans of the lungs and all these patients had the monia there was a dramatic improvement in the patient population taking the. medication is

81 percent improved after a week for cystic to 5 percent in the control population but i think the reason that a lot of americans heard about this medication is a famed french researcher did year old who's invented a bunch of solutions and isaac. he discovered different species of viruses who was of the belief that when combined with as it were my centers ipac this malaria medication could be effective he this a very small initial studies too small to draw any conclusions from that it did in larger study with 80 patients way ahead what he believed were good results and i just talked to him earlier this week and he summarises 1st 1000 patients on the medication combination and he said of the 1000 patients admitted to the hospital with code 1000 diagnosis 7 died and 20 went to the i.c.u. that we don't have a control group again that's not the kind of data we like to make decisions on but it perhaps because of this these combined bits of data has become the most why they prescribe sought solution from doctors trying to desperately find solutions for

this illness when you give it how much he gives whether the side effects those are still undecided issues. dr found his unconvinced he says the evidence thus far is anecdotal and contradictory he also says i think we've got to be careful that we don't make that majestically to assume that this is a knockout drug would you agree with that statement are we making a majestically. i deftly agree we should not make a majestic leave this this drug is still experimental in my mind it has not been proven with the large trials that we all expect that's not really the issue the question is while we're waiting for the clinical trials to come about which could take months certainly least take weeks what are doctors the front line going to do and so i would argue this is not anecdotal to manic though it is you know i try to once a work i try to twice it had some effect but you know 1000 patients in a row with the same protocol for studying them administering the drug i don't think

that that's called the case series that's a longer anecdote and this study in china that i mentioned with a randomized group of 62 people that's not an anecdote that's a clinical study randomised into place populations so i think it is wise for us to be humble about this drug we do not know for sure enough about how it might work we need larger trials absolutely but if you've got to make a decision today for a patient right in front of you and again is the prescription pills what's a doctor patient talking about it then these they should be aware of what the option is and make a wise decision personally i would not give it to people who are doing great with no problems why bother but for folks especially if they're high risk and have co-morbidities i would consider giving it and i would take it myself if i was having issues with the virus. there are no side effects i can't see the no side effects i can only trust the rheumatology experts because they prescribe a drug all the time larry as you know i'm a heart surgeon heart surgeons don't prescribe this medication i mean i took it

because i went to a place where there is malaria but i would amount to prescribe of this pill but when the head of the past head of one of the major societies at a very prestigious rheumatologist like dr weil says that complications are nil that's his word he wrote a letter to the f.d.a. outlining that when he says that they don't even have guidelines of side effects because it's so rare that i start to think my goodness if they're not worried about it then why am i worried about it when the downside of not giving it might be progression of the virus. is the president jumping ahead when he calls it a game changer you know i can't speak for what the president knows about this area he may be getting insights from other advisers who have much more knowledge about this than i'll ever have i can say is as a scientist. i know that we don't have enough data to say that it's a treatment that will work uniformly as a clinician have you make a decision right now at what you know i what i march into war with the army i have

and right now this medication is in my army so when the president says what have you got to lose you would agree with that right what have you got to lose i think the rheumatology community would agree with the president that they're the drug court and does not seem to have a risk profile that should make people concerned again you never want to take a prescription medication in a vacuum a doctor's got to make sure what interact with another drug iran or that you don't have some other reason not to be on it but if the trade off is at the person who need to take this pill and perhaps changes the natural history of this virus infection or not taking the pope for fear you may have a side effect that's not apparently very common i think you lean towards taking a pill whatever or your colleagues in the medical fraternity saying are you now a controversial figure. i hope not and you can never tell when you say things boldly because clinicians are guarded we should be i think a lot of doctors have told me that they would take the pill themselves if they got

ill i've had several on my show including the past governor of kansas dr collier who's back practicing medicine and he would take it himself and he's giving it to his patients e.r. doctors who've actually got that themselves have taken the pill and told me about it so that's what i'm hearing that the doctor in live in is probably the most famous biologist the country he was a the the medical director of the film contagion remember that movie talking about widespread infection. so heat that sort of his character in that movie he actually was sent to china to help out survived came back and then working at columbia my hospital is on the faculty with me there a contract that covered 19 and he treated himself with the medication after calling some colleagues and getting that advice from them that they would do it as well so when the world expert on viruses who calls his other world expert friends on viruses and they say take the medication and i'll tell you something more if you look in the official formulary from china the book they used to decide how they

treat patients it tells the doctors instruct them to give the medication in my family's. ancestral home of turkey it the government confiscated all the pills from pharmacies and he gives it to all the patients diagnosed other countries have done the exact same thing because some countries are starting to think about blocking the export of the product for that very reason so whatever reason because we don't have a lot of knowledge about how to treat covert $1000.00 is one of the ideas that seems to have some traction it's a track that the physicians so anecdotally plus based on these trials i think most clinicians understandably desired as there is their favorite 1st dr. so everyone runs out. as a prevention will 1st of all can they keep making its will it hamper the use for people who with a need for it right now to not covert 19 why would not take it prophylactically that's unproven we're looking at

a large series of insurance patients trying to identify patients who have lupus with iraq's a corporate as a prescription and whether they actually contract kovan 1000 less commonly i mean so far with the 9000000 records with our partners at share care and they've been trolling through their database and they found 14000 patients in that category who have people who have lupus with a dash of cork and prescriptions and none of them have contracted the virus but that's a small biopsy of the population working with c.m.s. which is medicare and will the blue cross blue shield association we hope there it tens of millions of more records to to go through them and see if this is a trend that continues but certainly i would not jump in there it's hard to picking a medication profile at the we don't have enough we want the book especially for 300000 people who are dependent these drugs keep taking it and we want to preserve it for frontline workers if we are going to use a profile axis is that's who needs to get it 1st. we'll have more with dr mehmet oz right after these words.

heteros long russian airline says. i'm a journalist it's all i know being a truth teller people say i make among come from good uses like a jackhammer good drill down and to find the true news with rick sanchez because it's time to do news again and question more.

aeroflot russian airlines. we're back on politicking with dr mehmet oz our special guest dr oz you've seen your you said your sense of criticism in the past how you're taking it now when your colleagues disagree with you publicly. you know medicine is about asking the right questions and when you ask those question and you get people vehemently disagreeing on the answers which is normal we have something called mortality and

morbidity comfort's eminem conference we have it in my hospital on thursday mornings and we go over all the cases the prior week that did not work out and people are bullish on each other they're tough and you do it because you want to improve the care of the patients are taken care of because that's your primary goal so i'm searching for solutions when people criticize me looking for solutions like i am and that's part of the game i respect that i expect that makes me better to be able to defend these ideas. have you spoken to president trump or the surgeon general about this i've not spoken to president trump at all the surgeon general has been on my show several times and i've spoken to him about a whole wide array of ideas not just medications but also general preventive topics and all the things as a nation we need to do to be better prepared do we know one of the side effects to be cardiac arrest. you know it's interesting i thought that was a problem because as a hearts doc i was curious about it and i understand theoretically why it's issue

but the rheumatology association representative dr wallace did not think that that was a common problem he said he'd never had the problem before so i still think you ought to check an e.k.g. just to make sure you're not predisposed to it doctor wrote in france checks an e.k.g. routinely on those patients the 1000 patients he put on this protocol but i think it's more because he's adding the antibiotics pack to it it's not because that hydroxy kora quit and then the question is if we've been giving these drugs so commonly for so many years and not checking e.k.g.'s why now all of a sudden is it such a fearful process regular easy paxman perscribe quite a bit ill many viewers right now would know they got it from a doctor i want them to ask themselves how often they have to go to the hospital get an e.k.g. before they took it right so if i get why it's a theoretical problem i personally want to check it just to be sure but i'm not sure i don't i don't want to create more problems for america we got enough to worry about if it's really an issue the rheumatologist should tell us about it and if it's not an issue we should trust their judgment as if they were checking it

before this pandemic why start now you previously that this could result in a 1000000 deaths do you still feel that way thankfully i don't think we're going to get to a 1000000 the newest estimates are down under 100000 i believe so it will distancing played a gargantuan role and those models that i looked at were widely reviewed and the estimates were not just a 1000000 was 1000000 to 2200000 and when there are big numbers we're talking about in this country alone those numbers drop pretty quickly down to a quarter 1000000 when social distancing was implemented and now and i've got to say especially here in new york city where we're starting i think to see the peak of the pandemic and hopefully won't get any worse than this it gives me confidence that we'll stay under $100000.00 deaths which will be fantastic. anybody who's ever been sick has taken the 3 day pill right we all know that probably the most popular pill in medicine today is take this 1st why does it work so well with the other

that with the any malaria drug we don't really know it was given by the doctor wrote initially because he believed it had the. benefit of blocking bacteria growing in a damaged lung a lung damaged by virus and that's a theoretical reason but it turns out in in laboratory studies that it might have a direct effect against viruses we don't know and we don't even know if the combination is critical in china in their state particle they will give the clerk when an anti-viral and an antibiotic all together that's what they give patients in the hospitals so it's a bit of a shock an approach we don't know if you need all 3 and we don't even know if all 3 are all that effective but it does seem like the results that they're reporting back are reasonably good and i would personally want to at least estonia what they're doing when one ignore what china did because they were here before they were there before we got here will it take

a dip in the summer months do you think and then return in the fall. i believe that's what's going to happen that will have a dip because the virus swells a bit generally in the more humid warm weather so it doesn't travel as far plus humans are for outdoors more you know their understanding this virus means appreciating that it spreads when we speak not just with me sneeze or cough so when i speak i and i make i say the word health that's that the sound aerosolize as a little bit of saliva which if i'm in fact they will have virus at it and it will travel a cloud around me for maybe going 6 feet so if you're within 6 feet of me for more than 10 minutes then you're going to have a risk of infection this meaningful and so if you're outdoors i may not be 6 feet from you maybe further because of a mouth dorce having a picnic not intimately having a meal in a cold. evening in present in new york city where you'd be able to spread it more likely it would be crowded into a bar and then in addition when that the virus is swollen it doesn't travel as far

they'd be nuts you know 60 percent half that this is maybe except the will so that will lead to a swing a downswing in the virus now in the winter we go back to the old habits the old traditions and the virus isn't going anywhere it's an endemic virus is going to remain in our species so there's no reason to believe that it will not return that stated we should be prepared better treatments will have the new trials by then on these different medications we talked about and they virals and that the mice in and who are quit and other medication we haven't talked about there's dozens of candidates and ideally those will help plus people will be smarter about social distancing and would be better at isolating individuals who are in tinning people who are contacts of people got sick so we don't have the spread of these little brushfires in the big forest fires meaning we may never be the same. well we'll have a vaccine in 15 months and that fact scene will make a big difference that especially for the older population and folks who have

chronic co-morbidities they're the ones i worry about it if i could give some advice on how i see this playing out i think once may comes parts of the country begin to open up but older folks who have risk factors are going to have to stay away from it in the mass crowds of people who may have this virus younger people tolerate the virus pretty well so if we have a few rare people here and they're getting those we can quarantine them there won't be much of a crisis older folks ought to stay separate from most others at least until we have a vaccine or they're going to run the risk of getting infected i better stay out of the public eye. fit dr oz great seeing you and thank you so much thanks my friend take care i'm now joined by public health expert and progressive activists stuck to abdulla. he says the united states is suffering from a political of the demick in addition the pandemic we're currently in and he oversaw a far reaching for scription for that a new book healing politics a doctor's journey into the heart of our political epidemic he joins me from

michigan dr what is it what is a political epidemic well tell you just for context larry 1st thank you for having me i spent 18 months interviewing from governor of michigan and i had thought when i started my campaign that you know of course people in detroit versus people in the upper peninsula of course they would have different challenges different issues that they were talking about and then i started campaigning and i realized that the challenges that people were talking about no matter where you went where the same and i'm an epidemiologist by training and so i'm taught to make sense of the patterns that i see in populations except for in the past i was looking at data sheets and now i was meeting people. their living rooms and their v.f.w. halls and as i would you know come home after a long day of campaigning came to appreciate that so much of the challenges that people face are framed by an insecurity around not having the basic means of

a dignified life that for so long americans got to take for granted not all americans but many americans in today the systems have been so eroded whether you're talking about access to basic health care or you're talking about housing that you can afford or you're talking about access to healthy food or you're talking about access to a good school for your kids or even clean water coming out your tap or clean air that you breathe or access to the political system or even a job that pays you a living wage and provides you benefits that those things have eroded and they've been eroded by in effect the the the the powerful and wealthy in our society putting up more and more exclusions for the well being of their bottom line rather than the well being of people and so this insecurity is an epidemic that i think is really framing our politics dodgier is so interesting i hope you'll agree to come back very soon and we're not ending by the for i want to do a full show with you i'd love that would be a lot of fun ok

a couple of other things andrew cuomo once called the corona virus a great equalizer but the data now shows it's having a disproportionate impact on black americans were you surprised at that data. i'm ashamed and astounded but not surprised and the virus is not an equalizer in fact it follows a very well worn path like every disease right there there's a particular social physics to disease that unless you're watching most people don't appreciate that disease always affects more income people always affect the most marginalised people in society more you know take detroit for example where 40 percent of all deaths have been to take over have been the black michiganders where only about 14 percent of michiganders are black but then you look at in for more tally and you realize that well. a black baby has 2.3 times the likelihood of dying before the age of one than a white baby now infant mortality uncovered 1000 or 2 very different outcomes but

the physics the social physics of disease still applies and so it teaches you something it shows you something about how a virus like this or how a baby dying breaks open the social inequality that patterns all of these outcomes again as well for you dr are spoke at least about opening more opportunities to investigating the world of the sandy malaria drug what do you think about. i mean i think that's really important we need to study every plausible treatment for for this disease the challenge though is that you know in science we never want to put the cart before the horse and i'll give you an example of why larry you know aspirin is probably something you take daily it's something that almost all americans over a certain age take daily it's a really really safe and effective drug the challenge though is if you give aspirin to a child with a fever it can cause a really serious reaction called rice and drum and so we can't just assume that any

medication because it is safe for another person suffering another disease is going to be safe and somebody else and so we really do need science to just to take its time and study this to make sure that it is safe and effective for treatment and meanwhile the president questioning this particular medication. chloroquine and is a promise and and what's happened is that you know for people who have rheumatoid arthritis or lupus for which this is an important treatment they're seeing that they're not able to fill prescriptions because there's been a run on it and that's really bad so there's a danger in jumping the gun anywhere that's right science has a process and we've got a lot of the process play itself and i know we're behind the gun there are a lot of people dying right now but a lot of bad things could happen if we don't know the answer and it's not like we have to wait a long time we just need the studies are being done we just need to see that the science is there and if the science is there i'll be the 1st person to say. it is

a thermos and or the treatment for $1000.00. banksia time today i'm glad you're going to be returning doesn't want to spend a lot more time with you i look forward to that larry and thank you for having me on appreciate it. doctors say his book is healing politics a doctor's journey into the heart of our political epidemic it's now available everywhere including on downloads on the thank you for joining me on this edition of politicking you can join me on my facebook page or tweet me at kings things and don't forget to use the politicking hash tag and that's all for this edition of politicking.

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a guest of the world of politics or business i'm sure both of those i'll see over. the headlines this coronavirus takes a devastating toll on care homes across europe with residents dying with no treatment and no families allowed to see them the direction of retirement home in this league describes the die conditions. i would describe what's happening as a tsunami and losing so many people in the same time is a terrible. anymore new york starts ticking mass graves after moves in this is overwhelming overwhelmed by the huge numbers of the dead that is the health crisis there spins out of control and russia and opec finally reach agreement which will see all production slashed in a bid to stabilize the global market although mexico had been against the move.