hello and welcome to worlds apart in medicine is one area where succumbing to authority is not just tolerate it but why is the expected we still treat our doctors this priests possessing a secret knowledge that's imparted on day millenia old oath but the so many medical dog having been proven wrong in recent years can doctors even be sure that they are

indeed doing no harm well to discuss that i'm now joined by mikaela peterson a prominent house longer and daughter of the canadian psychologist jordan peterson it's good to talk to you thank you very much for coming over thanks for having me on i'm excited to be here now technically speaking you're supposed to be me how you and not me caleb because your father's name the year after me gorbachev. so in great detail most of my substitutions would call me but no mckayla i'm not sure why my parents chose to pronounce it like that but. do you know what that was about me how gorbachev the 1st until i was president of the soviet union. made your father call his firstborn after him i do actually my dad was. a bit traumatized from the relationship north america had with russia during the cold war and when the soviet union fowl which was. a large part

from which i have there was a huge relief in north america from like the end of the war basically so to dad mikhail gorbachev represented somebody who. you may have like saved north america from russia i don't claim to know better but having listened to a lot of your dad's lectures a thing he holds may have seen gorbachev is somebody courageous enough to break with the mold and speak up against the prevailing orthodoxy reach i hope something that we can discuss today but before we do i have to ask you how is your dad doing . dad's doing well given the circumstances he had a terrible last month and he nearly died several times. better than i've seen him in at least 6 months so i'm happy to be here anyway. i don't think there are many people who don't know who jordan peterson is at least

among our audience but for those who haven't been following his progress housewife's again you describe it in the old wards what happened to him the bigger picture. we had we had a we have a number of health struggles in our family. i'm not sure if there's a genetic predisposition towards auto immune problems but there seems to be and we've managed to keep it under control with a very strict diet. in 2017 there was a really terrible auto immune reaction to food and he went to our family doctor and was prescribed. just to treat some of the auto immune symptoms the anxiety caused by the other means sometimes and then it turns out that especially to biologically susceptible individuals it can be extremely difficult to get off of so he took it for a number of weeks and then became physically dependent which we weren't aware of until

earlier this year when my mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer since then she's recovered from it fully. it was a horrible experience and. was unclear. and we realized he was experiencing not only a paradoxical reaction which is when the medication does the opposite of what it's supposed to but he had also become physically dependent so we tried to get out she tried to get off with her number of time to end just experienced horrific withdrawal and the more research we've done into this benzodiazepine problem the more apparent it has become that this isn't that unusual for people now from what i know these drug. long acting been baen's a day as have been that your father was prescribed experimentally used in russia for treating. and while it is a controlled substance it's nog thought of as it is the 6th really dangerous drug it's routinely given to children my concern is whether you or how can you be sure

that the russians have the expertise to you when somebody of these drug we weren't actually what we went to a number of places in north america that thought they could successfully when somebody off of the straw but if your experience and greely really severe physical dependence even if staying at the same dose on time isn't tolerated because of something called into a dose withdrawal which means the body goes into withdrawal in between doses so we looked all over the world for someplace that would do. a benzodiazepine detox. which is just stopping cold turkey which is fairly dangerous and extremely unpleasant and. we couldn't really find anyplace that would do that certainly not in north america found a place here and we found a place in serbia and because my husband speaks russian going to russia seemed like a better option but we it was like

a terrifying decision to make because. no offense to russia but choosing russia as a place to go for health treatment isn't something somebody from north america would usually do well probably because if you're. not necessarily true yes now these heroic narrative you know taking on your witnesses had gone you know 5 in your limitations is a big part of mr peterson's philosophy and it's a good strategy in many cases i relied on it myself but i don't think it works all the time do i understand correctly that this condition was made worse much worse by essentially being too heroic about it. being cold turkey as you say rather than trying to win. all more slowly. not exactly so he initially stopped taking it. because he wasn't aware of the physical

dependence so he was actually told by somebody just to stop and stopped that wasn't a good idea the winning down didn't work he couldn't tolerate that so coming here to the detox was our last option really i wouldn't necessarily put it into a. narrative or not it it was really the only way we could figure out how to get this medication out of a system because of the immune response it was adding to it now judging from your instagram you've been here since early january with your family immediate family your husband your daughter your daughter obviously. what about. mom how is she doing and how is she coping with mr peterson's house. well this has been just terribly stressful for our entire family it's it's been a horrible scene months so she's she's one of the strongest people and she might be the strongest person i know. managed to deal with my health struggles and having a kid that's sick. must be just awful man is. my dad's health

struggles so while recovering very very serious diet hasher nearly died in the summer a number of times so she's doing as well as can be expected and like i said she's probably the strongest person i know i wish your family old the best and i think the 3rd deal in a very direct way is putting to detach. what your father has been thinking in talking about all these years that you know these mythical idea of venturing into the bally of the beast in fact several when i was thinking about a situation it's almost like you know being captured by a t.-rex while running away from a dragon and i wonder when did you realize what did it take for you to realize the nature of danger has actually changed and you now need to be more concerned about your died down about your mom probably september or august was switched

from focus and well my mom they recovered in august and she recovered and then was almost back to other than being traumatized from her experience she looked like she was fairly back to normal right away and then yeah immediately switched to dealing with with dad's health problems. now speaking about this current. fighting the physical dependence on the drug your father was prescribed to deal with or they doze off which was increased to deal with your mother's illness from what. to describe the facts when the here were seemed to be far more excruciating then you know even the fear of losing the grief the actual grief of losing a loved one did he know what he was getting into no no. we took a surprise for a decade and a half to treat this depression that was caused by auto immune issues that was

treated with diet so when he was prescribed an anti-anxiety medication at a low dose it wasn't something that rung any warning bells you know to use your father's terminology it's the typical 1000 and bargain when you take a collateral on your soul to relieve a little bit of pain right now only to be chained in slave by it for what seems like an internal the only difference i guess is that our doctors are not just awful as they're supposed to lead us through an informed choice for each i guess was not the vailable to him my question to you is do you attribute that to his. biology because you guys do have a number of rare condition is running your in your family or is it more systemic prescribe being the drugs the may relieve the pain in the moment but certainly come back to you with more pain afterwards i think i think it's both i think that the reaction dad had was extremely severe but i've had hundreds and hundreds

of people reach out telling me they've had the same experience with benzodiazepines so i think that there's a huge misunderstanding about the dangers of physical dependence regarding specifically this class of drugs so i'd say well it's a mix of both genetics and systemic problems with doctors not informed about how dangerous these drugs can me do you think it's just not being informed or do you think there is economic interest in. prescribing the medicine. produce a lot of profit for pharmaceutical companies but do not necessarily produce the desired effect for the people who are taking them. i'd like to believe that it's just uninformed but i know in north america the medical industry is heavily like wow if you go to medical school a lot of the courses and take are backed by the pharmaceutical companies so i think

people who are meaning well go to med school medical school and are perhaps taught by the wrong people and then end up over prescribing part of the reason we thought russia was a good option is because the medical system here isn't as backed by farmer so i'm pleased as it is in north america while it's still a bag it's to some extent so certainly i hove yoyo hopes are realized to the best but i would be a skeptical myself because i mean capitalism is a system in russia is that capitalist society right now so. their ways of inserting you know putting bad influence on the government on the doctor is you know work here is as well while from from what we've seen it's not nearly as bad as it is north america ok both we go we have to take a very short break now we'll be back in just a few moments states. this

is a story of women and women was troubled histories and complex court cases you know some of us did leave leave. out there. were not.

the person that there's a cheesiness of the day are considered the most dangerous of criminals she's in a still. all the off 23 hours of the day tell me that it's not enough punishment it will give women on death row. the outbreak and spread of the corona virus has become a black swan event for the global economy is no longer whether the u.s. and other economies will slip into recession the question now is how long the recession will last it's going to get worse before it gets better. welcome back to worlds apart with me caleb peterson a prominent house longer and daughter of the canadian psychologist jordan peterson

before the break we touched on this issue off. medical authority trusting medical advice which many people don't. question given your family's extensive history in this round what do you think is a responsible stance when it comes to medical advise and old how. i think how much should you trust them how much should you mistrust well i don't trust medical authority at all ever and the reason for that is i had this horrible autoimmune disorder growing up and then it turns out it was completely alleviated with very drastic dietary measures and i went to a number of doctors to discuss what happened to me and i was basically laughed at by it has nothing to do with autoimmune disorders. diet has nothing do with mental health disorders and mental health aren't associated and i kind of over the years

learnt that everything i've been told and everything i believed in regarding the medical community was wrong and harmful so my suggestion to people who have health issues they can't figure out if they're going to see a medical professional and they've been going for 10 years and they're still in the same place they should probably take it upon themselves to start testing things out testing out diet testing out exercise and try and figure out things on their own i think it's safer being told it's your responsibility to fix your health and not your doctors than it is going to somebody else for tells you they can fix you. i think it's pretty mind boggling ols revealing that you know the amount of pain dysfunction that your body had to go through for like 2 decades was cured to be a good few months of dietary changes but before we discuss your particular diet i want to dwell on this particular point we are what we eat because hypocrisy is came up with 2500 years ago and the many people still believe eat as if it

doesn't apply to them why do you think that's the case i think it's a mess education i know my diet. especially when i went off to university and in north america it was like horrible i was surviving off of you know instant noodles and things because it was fast but i had no idea that what i would affect me in the way it did i i bought into the calories in calories out. now i don't you know it has some truth to it but i don't agree with so i say mr who doesn't want a straightforward it's a job no it's certainly not a straight forward you are a little bit of a biological as you said you have a very rare condition that you were diagnosed with with. his when you were a kid you had a replacement i think at the age of half an ankle 17. also pretty unusual and. when people hear you say that the medical rude didn't work for

me it's very tempting for them to say that you know she's a biological curiosity she's an exception and her struggles and achievements dole and apply to me is that the case no not from what i've seen so i 1st i thought when i 1st started researching and trying to figure out my health problems i went down the genetics route because i figured it was something in my family there wasn't anything obvious we don't have any well it wasn't anything obvious. so i started publishing them fog and talking to people and testing my diet or suggesting dietary changes to family friends people online and i've seen hundreds and hundreds of people recover from illnesses that generally aren't as severe as mine because like you said mine was abnormally severe but even smaller issues just like joint pain or the need to lose 30 pounds or being 15 doll the time seems to be helped by dietary intervention you know it's it's hard not to reference. talking to

jordan peterson's daughter but karl you had a very interesting view all but particularly psychopathology and rather than seeing it. as something that needs to be magic eat it right away he actually too good for the body signaling system to point to what's wrong and i tend to think about people with rear although more frequent conditions like yourself as old as signals pointing to what's wrong with the. entire public. house sector what do you think about it all hopefully i mean i one point my brother asked like was it worth it you had to have your hip replacement your ankle replaced i was miserably depressed for most of my life and then i ended up getting rashes like i was really ill and dying. but the recovery i've seen so many other people making the awareness i can bring to the fact that people can take horrible health problems and potentially fix themselves has made the entire experience worth it you don't

remember pain very much and it's all about the way you frame it i mean on some level i think you can take an argument that you were lucky to have these very discomforting disease early in life so that you can have the rest of your life in relative how they had no 1st as opposed to many other people eating crab for the 1st half of their life until it's way too late to change and in the end i completely agree with it and i've actually thought about that like if i wasn't suffering as badly as i was suffering i probably wouldn't have had the willpower to make the changes i need to make to get better and i could have ended up you know 50 and. just slowly declining and being ill for the last 40 years of my life and because i was so ill young i do look at it that way may have been severe enough to get me to change things early enough that i can be healthy for the rest of my life which will keep him you know what's driving the thought it is that it's actually

not a potential scenario it's the actual scenario because metabolic disorders are the leading cause of mortality globally and you certainly do know if you have a rare condition like yourself to. i realize that and what's even more troubling is that that mortality is preceded by a lot of pain and discomfort you know diabetes or alzheimer's a terrible disease not only on yourself but also on the your loved ones and you know the way you accumulate them is by years and years of eating foods that you think nourishing you but in fact doing a lot of harm to your body yeah no i agree there are definitely ways to avoid that and i was probably lucky to figure out that and last that i've been able to share it with people now speaking about the ways to avoid it if you are a strict carnivore you don't consume anything beyond pastured meat salt and water. is everyone. so the way i would look at this diet

is contrary to what we've been told is absorbed in the small intestine and. for people with especially with gut disorders is actually a very easy way to digest food plants naturally have a number of like natural pesticides just to keep bugs from eating them and people with metabolic disorders potentially and autoimmune disorders are more can be more reactive to those proteins they're in plants so giving your gut a rest for a while might be a way to that's what i'm hoping with me is you heal the gut damage and then slowly reintroduce other foods which you do look forward to introducing out of foods because i hear yeah i do i mean so i've been doing only meat since december 2017 and i don't have cravings for other foods but socially it's awkward for sure and i guess is probably mostly the social part that i miss because if you go out for

dinner you know eating one thing isn't really a problem for me but the social aspect is weird and i'm not 100 percent certain that only eating meat for everybody is the right way to go i think it's a really good way to heal your guide and then people should probably test things out slowly on those of us variety i mean the pleasure that one derives from. the different kinds of food when so initially i didn't go straight to all meat i went to a very low carb diet where i was eating a limited fruit meat and vegetables and that worked for a number of years. i had more cravings for variety on that diet than i do on my diet now for some reason cutting the plants have gotten rid of the plant cravings now you often talk about the difference between being alive and a friend who owns the world and a sheep who is told what to do serves as a floater. i understand the matter for it but isn't that huge divisive sort of

verses that kind of frame that many people try to assign to your own father saying that he is. representing some group of people against the other group of people oh i don't. i don't mean to represent plant based eaters that isn't what i meant but i can tell i can see how it came across as that i just meant it's up to people to take their responsibility to not be a follower of information that isn't necessarily true just think don't trust don't trust what you read just because it comes from an authoritative. that leads me to a question that there would really love your father answer but i'm sure you're hopeful have an opinion on god the free market is thought to be a prerequisite for democracy and we have everything we have talked about today is a product of free market people are addicted to eating crab because with companies can influence nutritional guidelines and because they can produce food that preys

on the brain's reward circuitry people are prescribed very expensive drugs we see whose efficacy is not really proven because pharmaceutical companies can have ways of exerting influence isn't the free market just another form of charlie terry and. i'm for the free market regardless of the fact that there's clearly a health crisis that's partly due to it. i think i don't see a better option and i honestly think the only way to counteract that is to educate yourself and stay aware that just because you're listening to an authoritative figure doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. your father likes quoting alexander solzhenitsyn. the line dividing good and evil caught through the heart of every human being and i guess in these they may have caused it directly through your plate more specifically through

a mouth because what you put in there whether it's food or drug can greatly influence your choices and as you said why the weights you gave diaries through what you call citizen science i wonder though how do you approach it how do you separate the pressure of wheat from from the chaff as bad of a matter for it as it is for our gluten free lifestyle so yeah well 1st i was completely obsessed with when i 1st started researching i was completely obsessed with whether or not articles i was reading were. scientific and then after you know 8 years of searching and finally putting my auto immune disorder. i figured the actual best way to do science on your body is to test things out on yourself so part of the reason this lion diet ruminant meat salt water diet works is because you can go to a baseline of food and reintroduce foods in one by one to actually see what your react until. and i think that ends up being more scientific then epidemiological

studies 1st say it's interesting well thank you very much for sharing your wisdoms i don't know if you have had the chance to watch your father's the lectures as much as i have but russia features prominently very as the country that has experimented a lot with meaning and control the q. main themes both for him and for his intellectual hero. carl gustav jung and i really hope that he rediscover both of those faculties meaning control it while being here in moscow thank you very much for coming and best of luck to you thank you thank you for having me thank you for watching i hope to see you again next sunday here on worlds apart.

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