while come to worlds apart medicine is one area where succumbing to authority is not just tolerate it but widely expected we still treat our doctor as this priests possessing a secret knowledge that's imparted on day millenia old oath but he saw many medical dog having been proven wrong in recent years can doctors even be sure that they are

indeed doing no harm to discuss that i'm now joined by peterson a prominent house longer and daughter of the canadian psychologist jordan peterson it's good to talk to you thank you very much for coming over thanks for having me on i'm excited to be here now technically speaking you're supposed to be me how you are not me caleb because your father's name the year after me gorbachev. so in grade 2 most of my substitutions would call me but no. i'm not sure why my parents chose to pronounce it like that but. do you know what was it about me how gorbachev the 1st until i was president of the soviet union. made your father call his firstborn after him i do actually my dad was. a bit traumatise from the relationship north america had with russia during the cold war and when the soviet union fell which was. to a large part from which i have there was

a huge relief in north america from. the end of the war so to dad mikhail gorbachev represented somebody who. you may have like saved north america from russia i don't claim to know better but having listened to a lot of your dad's lectures i think he also may have seen gorbachev as somebody courageous enough to break with the mold and speak up against the prevailing orthodoxy reach i hope something that we can discuss today but before we do that i have to ask you how is your dad doing right now dad's doing well given the circumstances he had a terrible last month and he nearly died several times. better than i've seen him in the least 6 months so i'm happy to be here anyway. i don't think there are many people who don't know who jordan peterson is at least

among our audience but for those who haven't been following his progress how flies again you describe it in your own words what happened to him the bigger picture. we had we had a we have a number of health struggles in our family. i'm not sure if there's a genetic predisposition towards auto immune problems but there seems to be and we've managed to keep it under control with a very strict diet. in 2017 there was a really terrible auto immune reaction to food and he went to our family doctor and was prescribed. just to treat some of the autoimmune symptoms the anxiety caused by the other men sometimes and then it turns out that especially to biologically susceptible individuals it can be extremely difficult to get off of so he took it for a number of weeks and then became physically dependent which we weren't aware of until

earlier this year when my mom was diagnosed with terminal cancer since then she's recovered from it fully. it was a horrible experience and his dose of around was increased and we realized he was experiencing not only a paradoxical reaction which is when the medication does the opposite of what it's supposed to but he had also become physically dependent so we tried to get out he tried to get off of it or number of time to end just experienced horrific withdrawal and the more research we've done into this benzodiazepine problem the more apparent it has become that this isn't that unusual for people now from what i know these drug. long acting benzo day as have been that your father was prescribed experimentally used in russia for treating. and while it is a controlled substance it's nog thought of as it is the 6th really dangerous drug it's a given to children my concern is whether you or how can you be sure that the russians

have the expertise to you when somebody you know all these drug we weren't actually what we went to a number of places in north america that thought they could successfully when somebody off of this drug but if your experience and greely really severe physical dependence even staying at the same dose some time isn't tolerated because of something called into a dose withdrawal which means the body goes into withdrawal in between doses so we looked all over the world for someplace that would do. a benzodiazepine detox. which is just stopping cold turkey which is fairly dangerous and extremely unpleasant and. we couldn't really find anyplace that would do that certainly not in north america found a place here and we found a place in serbia and because my husband speaks russian going to russia seemed like a better option but we it was like a terrifying decision to make because. no offense to russia but choosing russia as

a place to go for health treatment isn't something somebody from north america would usually do well probably because if you're serious about this going to reach and not necessarily true yes now these heroic narrative you know taking on your witnesses had you know 5 being your limitations is a big part of mr peterson's philosophy and it's a good strategy in many cases i relied on it myself but i don't think it works all the time do i understand correctly that this condition was made worse much worse by essentially being too heroic about it. being cold turkey as you say rather than trying to win. all more slowly. not exactly as so he initially stopped taking it. because he wasn't aware of the physical dependence so he was actually told by somebody just to stop and stopped that wasn't

a good idea the winning down didn't work he couldn't tolerate that so coming here to the detox was our last option really i wouldn't necessarily put it into a. narrative or not it it was really the only way we could figure out how to get this medication out of a system because of the immune response was adding to it now judging from your instagram you've been here since early january with your family immediate family your husband your daughter your daughter obviously. what about. how is she doing and how is she coping with mr peterson's house. well this has been just terribly stressful for our entire family it's it's been a horrible few months so she's she's one of the strongest people i know she might be the strongest person i know. managed to deal with my health struggles and having a kid that's sick. must be just awful man is. my dad's health

struggles so while recovering very very serious diagnosis nearly died in the summer a number of times so she's doing as well as can be expected and like i said she's probably the strongest person i know now i wish your family old the best and i think these are deal in a very direct way putting to detach. what your father has been thinking and talking about all these years that you know these mythical idea of venturing into the bally of the beast in fact several when i was thinking about a situation it's almost like you know being captured by a t.-rex while running away from a dragon and i wonder when did you realize what did it take for you to realize the nature of danger has actually changed and you now need to be more concerned about your dad down there both your mom probably september or august was switched

from focus and well my mom they recovered in august and she recovered and then was almost back to other than being traumatized from her experience she looked like she was fairly back to normal right away and then yeah immediately switched to dealing with with dad's health problems. now speaking about this current bs that you're fighting the physical dependence on the drug your father was prescribed to deal with or they doze off which was increased to deal with your mother's illness from one. you just cry but the facts are in the here and were seemed to be far more excruciating than you know even the fear of losing the grief the actual grief of losing a loved one did he know what he was getting into no no. we took a surprise for like a decade and a half to treat this depression that was caused by our own munitions that was

treated with diet so when he was prescribed an anti-anxiety medication at a low dose it wasn't something that rung any warning bells you know to use your father's terminology it's the typical 1000 bargain the when you take a collateral on your soul to relieve a little bit of pain right now only to be chained in slave by it for what seems like an internal the only difference i guess is that our doctors are no it is just awful as they are supposed to lead us through an informed choice for each i guess was not the vailable to him my question to you is do you attribute that to his. biology because you guys do have a number of rare condition is running your in your family or is it more systemic risk driving the drugs the may relieve the pain in the moment but will certainly come back to you with more pain afterwards i think i think it's both i think that the reaction dad had was extremely severe but i've had hundreds

and hundreds of people reach out telling me they've had the same experience with benzodiazepines so i think that there's a huge misunderstanding about the dangers of physical dependence regarding specifically this class of drugs so i'd say well it's a mix of both genetics and systemic problems with doctors not informed about how dangerous these drugs can me do you think it's just not being informed or do you think there is economic interest in. prescribing the medicine. produce a lot of profit for pharmaceutical companies but do not necessarily produce the desired effect for the people who are taking them. i'd like to believe that it's just uninformed but i know in north america the medical industry is heavily. like wow if you go to medical school out of the courses and take are backed by the pharmaceutical companies so i think people who are meaning well go to medical

school and are perhaps taught by the wrong people and then end up over prescribing part of the reason without russia was a good option as because the medical system isn't as backed by pharma so i'm curious as it is in north america well it's still a bag it's to some extent certainly i hove yoyo hopes are realized to the best but i would be skeptical myself because i mean capitalism is a system i'm in russia is a capitalist society right now so. their ways of inserting you know putting bad influence on the government on the doctor is you know work here is as well. from what we've seen it's not nearly as bad as it is north america ok bo we go we have to take a very short break now we'll be back in just a few moments states. the

outbreak of the spread of the coronavirus has become a black swan event for the global economy is no longer whether the u.s. and other economies will slip into recession the question now is how long the recession will last it's going to get worse before it gets better. thank you because you know you probably won't be done. in this time you will why are you going to use a crate with him he will. freaking out and he will want his freedom anywhere near. breeding dogs or caged in the conditions on puppies i mean 67 years you know they've been locked up in a cage outside you see no protection from the weather the heat you know the courtier the rain the snow the founder nothing they have no protection. to you. or to to kids. across the u.s.

crude puppy mills are supported by dog shows and stores most of the puppies that are coming from this large scale factory farming kind of operations are being stolen goods stores even joined a good businesses are involved like the mom santa there has been a shocking amount of the organized opposition to efforts to increase the standards of care for dogs bred in commercial breeding facilities most of that opposition is coming from huge agricultural groups and industries that have nothing to do with jobs don't buy dogs.

welcome back to worlds apart with michela peterson a prominent house longer and daughter all of the canadian psychologist jordan peterson because before the break we touched on this issue off. medical authority trusting medical advice reach many people don't question given your family's extensive history in this round what do you think is a responsible stance when it comes to medical advice and your own house. i think. how much should you trust me how much should you mistrust well i don't trust medical authority at all ever and the reason for that is i had this horrible

autoimmune disorder growing up and it turns out it was completely alleviated with very drastic dietary measures and i went to a number of doctors to discuss what happened to me and i was basically laughed at by a guy has nothing to do with autoimmune disorders. diet has nothing do with mental health disorders and mental health aren't associated and i kind of over the years learnt that everything i had been told and everything i believed in regarding the medical community was wrong and harmful so my suggestion to people who have health issues they can't figure out if they're going to see a medical professional and they've been going for 10 years and they're still in the same place they should probably take it upon themselves start testing things out testing out diet testing out exercise and try and figure out things on their own i think it's safer being told it's your responsibility to fix your health and not your doctors than it is going to somebody else for tells you they can fix you. i

think it's pretty mind boggling ols revealing that you know the the amount of pain dysfunction that your body had to go through for like 2 decades was cured to be a good few months of dietary changes but before we discuss your particular diet i want to dwell on this particular point we are what we eat because hypocrisy is came up with 2500 years ago and the many people still believe eat as if it doesn't apply to them why do you thing that's the case i think it's a mess education i know my diet was especially when i went off to university and in north america it was like orrible i was surviving off of you know instant noodles and things because it was fast but i had no idea that what i ate would affect me in the way it did i. bought into the calories in calories out. now i don't you know it has some truth to it but i don't agree with so i saying this i

just want a straightforward suggestion no it's certainly not a straight forward you are a little bit of a biological outlier as you said you have a very rare condition that you were diagnosed with with. his when you were a kid you had hip replacement i think at the age of half an ankle 17. also pretty unusual and. when people hear you say that the medical rude didn't work for me it's very tempting for them to say that you know she's a biological curiosity she is an exception and her struggles and achievements dull and the playa to me is that the case no not from what i've seen so i 1st i thought when i 1st started researching and trying to figure out my health problems i went down the genetics route because i figured it was something in my family there wasn't anything obvious we don't have any well it wasn't anything obvious. so i started publishing them fog and talking to people and testing my diet or suggesting

dietary changes to family friends people online and i've seen hundreds and hundreds of people recover from illnesses that generally aren't as severe as mine because like you said mine was abnormally severe but even smaller issues just like joint pain or the need to lose 30 pounds or being 15 doll the time seems to be helped by dietary intervention you know it's it's hard not to reference. talking to petitions daughter but carl you have a very interesting view all but particularly psychopathology and rather than seeing it as something that needs to be medicated right away he actually too good for the body signaling system to point to what's wrong and i tend to think about people with rear although more frequent conditions like yours. as also as signals pointing to what's wrong with the. entire public. house sector what do you think

about the law hopefully i mean i one point my brother asked like was it worth it you had to have your hip replacement your ankle replaced i was miserably depressed for most of my life and then i ended up getting rashes like i was really ill and dying. but the recovery i've seen so many other people making the awareness i can bring to the fact that people can take horrible health problems and potentially fix themselves has made the entire experience worth it you don't remember pain very much and it's all about the way you frame it i mean on some level i think you can take an argument that you were lucky to have these very discomforting disease early in life so that you can have the rest of your life in relative how they had no 1st as opposed to many other people eating crab for the 1st half of their life until it's way too late to change and i completely agree with it and i've actually thought about that like if i wasn't suffering as badly as i was suffering i probably wouldn't have had the willpower to make the changes i need to make to get

better and i could have ended up you know 50 and. just slowly declining and being ill for the last you know 40 years of my life and because i was so ill young i do look at it that way may have been severe enough to get me to change things early enough that i can be healthy for the rest of my life which will be you know what's driving the thought it is that it's actually not a potential scenario is the actual scenario because metabolic disorders are the leading cause of mortality globally and you certainly do not need to have a rare condition like yourself to realize that and what's even more troubling is that the mortality is preceded by a lot of pain and discomfort you know diabetes or alzheimer's a terrible disease not only on yourself but also on the your loved ones and. you know the way you accumulate them is by years and years of eating foods that you think inertia in you but in fact are doing

a lot of harm to your body yeah no i agree there are definitely ways to avoid that and i was probably lucky to figure this out and last that i've been able to share it with people now speaking about the ways to avoid it if you are a strict carnivore you don't consume anything beyond pastured meat salt and water. is everyone. so the way i would look at this diet is contrary to what we've been told is absorbed in the small intestine and. for people with especially with gut disorders is actually a very easy way to digest food plants naturally have a number of like natural pesticides just to keep bugs from eating them and people with metabolic disorders potentially and auto immune disorders are more can be more reactive to those proteins they're in plants so giving your gut a rest for a while might be a way to that's what i'm hoping with me is you heal the gut damage and then slowly

reintroduce other foods which you do look forward to reintroducing out of foods because i hear yeah i do i mean so i've been doing only meat since december 2017 and i don't have cravings for other foods but socially it's awkward for sure and i guess is probably mostly the social part that i miss because if you go out for dinner you know eating one thing isn't really a problem for me but the social aspect is weird and i'm not 100 percent certain that only eating meat for everybody is the right way to go i think it's a really good way to heal your guide and then people should probably test things out slowly on those of us variety that i'm in the pleasure that one derives from. the different kinds of food when so initially i didn't go straight to all meat i went to a very low carb diet where i was eating a limited fruit meat and vegetables and that worked for

a number of years. i had more cravings for variety on that diet than i do on my diet now for some reason cutting the plants have gotten rid of the plant cravings now you often talk about the difference between being alive and a friend who owns the world and a sheep who is told what to do you serves as a floater. i understand the matter for a bit isn't that huge divisive sort of verses that kind of frame that many people try to assign to your own father saying that he is. representing some group of people against the other group of people oh i don't i don't mean to represent plant based eaters that isn't what i meant but i can tell i can see how it came across as that i just meant it's up to people to take their responsibility to not be a follower of information that isn't necessarily true they should just think don't

trust don't trust what you read just because it comes from an authoritative thing. that leads me to a question that they would really love your father answer but i'm sure you have an opinion on god the free market is thought to be a prerequisite for democracy and we have everything we have talked about today is a product of free market people are addicted to eating crab because with companies can influence nutritional guidelines and because they can produce food that preys on the brain's reward circuitry people are prescribed very expensive drugs we see whose i think you see is not really proven because pharmaceutical companies can have ways of exerting influence isn't the free market just another form of charlie terry and. i'm for the free market regardless of the fact that there's clearly a health. that's partly due to it. i think i don't see a better option and i honestly think the only way to counteract that is to educate

yourself and stay aware that just because you're listening to an authoritative figure doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. your father likes quoting alexander solzhenitsyn. the line dividing good and evil caught through the heart of every human being and i guess in these cuts that directly through your plate more specifically through a mouth because what you put in there whether it's food or drug can greatly influence your choices and as you said why the weights you gave diaries through what you call citizen science i wonder though how do you approach it how do you separate the pressure of wheat from from the chaff as bad of a matter for as it is for our gluten free lifestyle so yeah well 1st i was completely obsessed with when i 1st started researching i was completely obsessed with whether or not articles i was reading were unscientific and then after you

know 8 years of searching and finally putting my auto immune disorder into remission i figured the actual best way to do science on your body is to test things out on yourself so part of the reason this lion diet ruminant meat salt water diet works is because you can go to a baseline of food and reintroduce foods in one by one to actually see what your react until. and i think that ends up being more scientific then epidemiological studies 1st say it's interesting well thank you very much for sharing your wisdoms i don't know if you have had the chance to watch your father's the lectures as much as i have but russia features prominently very as the country that has experimented a lot with meaning and controlled the humane themes both for him and for his intellectual hero. carl gustav jung and i really hope that he can rediscover both of those faculties meaning control it while being here in moscow thank you very

much for coming and best of luck to you thank you thank you for having me thank you for watching hope to see you again next sunday here on worlds apart. her. and his community there are people who believe that it's ok. it's really hard there are no jobs and you see the kids ask and as

a parent. i can come up with lots of arguments there's a lot of conflict within the game between the teams most of the conflicts i would say. and most of them is made. close one on each other. each other is good because the state of california makes $6000000000.00 a year off to prison complexes to get some 20 year life where. you don't care. anything. the world is driven by dreamers shaped by phone person with those words. the dares thinks. we dare to ask.

politicians place from issues although no problem with yaba problem has not yet born because we're still going to lose the average distance looking to replace it with a view still ni-mh it just a little so muckle with the those who should be scheme which little interest will remove them all to mislay a new more hostile mulching signal with i'm just going to put up also my welcome to the 1st appeal of the sheep to probably a book of the most disposable local millwood at the moon 2 story beats his next move is in the sky.