i'm stating that the sensing guy writes or way out of balance i think she realized and understood that it was a completely circumstantial evidence that no case of the government actually prove nothing but dark being on the government's side she certainly going to hear and sentence me to i guess she thought it was a sunni only our 42 months in prison lined out that mr assad will receive that same sort of mercy or we've talked to people who've been in the court they say they can see all the u.s. officials and then you hear a british q.c. to speaking the words what do you think why do you think they might have been using your case so early on in the proceedings at this south london court and they trying to tie up the cia are they trying to connect a publisher and journalist to someone who like you consider themselves a wrongly convicted or former cia officer i think what they're doing is.

considering be efforts to use the espionage act with their own called a darn good job to quiet dissent since acquired free speech i think it does make sense and where you know her purse or wait for them to mention my case because there was an appeal in my case where the government won't be appealed so you finally decide. cleary confusion about whether the government would go after the press or any journalists or by oh yes you know. be a star and chase extradition proceeding is a further a starbucks and it shows that the government my government ole will use any method necessary to acquire said what did you make of them then saying the same q.c. lewis representing the usa pointing out that wiki leaks cables were founded well he's a former cia proxy asama bin laden's house in pakistan what do you do you think if they were going with that k. to try and get as symes to virginia it's all about him

it's and they want to create an image so mr assad is he's an enemy suga moral that he's a terrorist if you will and making him sort of connection with. some of the larger just fulfills their purpose to make that emits a bible or any other court in the world with me during my trial the only thing that i see. for the trial the only thing accrued beyond a reasonable doubt was that i was black and they have theirs they have to show during my trial because there is no evidence that i was there is on the ruling on american black men who have the nerve to stand up against the cia and u.s. government yeah in your book i wanted to spy the persecution of an american whistleblower you say that racism the worst racism was not in missouri it was in northern virginia where they want to bring julian a songes of course a publisher and i and a journalist not even a whistleblower what would he be facing he said not only racism but

a right wing ideology exists in that area similarly that court of virginia is they are homefield if you will with u.s. government their court routinely. rules in favor of the government with the conservative hammer everything north a law what i face even with regard to a jury there was no one on that jury that was black you know african-american most of the members up at jury also had some sort of connection with our security clearances so there was already that i think assumption by other they better do the right thing by the government or maybe they would come out so he could not receive a fair trial in virginia i don't think that stops that's certainly what the united nations special robert and heals meltzer told us on monday's a show but the defense team also. oh saying that this trial which the

british authorities think is worth having here in london they say that the cia cutout they allege a cia cut out of spanish security firm was bugging the conversations of the lawyers we had jeffrey robinson q.c. one of the top human rights barristers in the world him saying that the cia were up to this kind of thing is that the kind of thing that the cia do bug people's conversations with their lawyers i think you know i have known show rebirth sort of activity by cia or n.s.a. is certainly possible and does indeed happen i can't so i cannot of course speak to any direct knowledge or apne but there is certainly will urge you in capability of either also organizations well you wouldn't be able to tell me or. have good in the . helping the enemy that's another thing the barrister for the united states of america versus julian assange said and he said there also that the official secrets

act here trumps the u.n. charter and the european human rights act what do you make about this helping the enemy charge i think again their past to go into the area there and i think it's quite disingenuous of the state to make any sort of claims about any sort of harm because if you eventually years since to america to face trial under the espionage act the government doesn't have to prove any sort of harm for them to do so now bolster extradition i think just shows that this is a political prosecution what it's like what the soviet union. yes absolutely they have to portray this matter and as an enemy. particularly to the united states and to the world it will be a very sad day for speech and legal process in general you know years mr science extradited to the u.s. the lawyer again noted to the judge that there's no public interest defense for

a publisher or journalist that was changed in this country not sure whether you're up to speed on this a the family of a u.k. teenager killed by an alleged cia spy they have been supporting julian a son saying they want to see i suspect that cia spy to cool a sense of cool is extracted here but they don't want to silence taken away from just being a journalist is it one rule for the cia and one for not cia oh absolutely absolutely a dirty murder trial it was an incredible war out there you saw are claiming national security national secrets was only for their benefit. as i stayed in my book i sued the c.r.a. for discrimination my suit was not allowed to go forward because the c.i. a and b. b. an administration claim barracks if i were to go or work with my discrimination case there were holes a threat to the national security of the united states u.s. government in general will use it to their defense and also use it to go after its

enemies yet that same sort of situation is not allowed to be used by individuals who are complaints about the u.s. or trying to stand up to the u.s. government so is it is excess for strategy because they can point to you and right now if there is someone thinking of blowing the whistle on wrongdoing in langley at headquarters or it down myriad cia stations around the world they just can't now again it's a strategy of deterrence they're all chilled out if you say anything that we don't like oh we'll go at you and look weak. jeffery sterling who stepped out why it will be such a one sided affair where the government is able to do whatever they will are there in trial but anyone trying to defend against that because of the complications. of the national security will be very difficult i did my best fight against all of that but it was

a hell of about and of course it's not just purely innocent to the u.n. repertoire says torture knob charlie detained by british authorities here it's chelsea manning who refuses to testify against a songe and who who is imprisoned there in the united states obama commuted jealousy manning sentence of 35 years saying it is disproportionate your vice president mike pence said there was a mistake to commute the sentence do you think u.s. authorities really want a songe manning dead is an example i don't know that they want her back would not serve the purpose of putting these individuals up as an example of what can happen if anyone decides to whistle or say or do you really think it may be an embarrassment to the u.s. government how would you advise someone out there right now who has seen wrongdoing in the intelligence services the intelligence community the military industrial complex given what you've been through i would say stick to. your inclination and

stick to your stopping your guns and gold stay the course oh don't be intimidated by threats of. retaliation are reprisal those are very real aspects concerning whistleblower but for anyone to even say the steps we think about coming forward that in itself is a very powerful. thing to do hopefully with the discussion or whistleblower service happen maybe we can finally see more protections for whistleblowers take it out. political route. i think yes i mean that be a good example for someone who is wanting to expose government wrongdoing but it's doing the right thing it's a unique person and i think even with these actions against me elsie manning johnson react to you and julian and sons. i think you can despite that people have

integrity. and know how to do the right thing and i don't think this is going to squelch any of that even if it isn't covert attempt at infringing the u.n. charter you wouldn't advise a whistleblower a journalist a publisher any of them to to attack the intelligence services for racism no i am not saying don't do anything like that because there are certainly reprisals but i'm just saying stand up be yourself stick to your integrity and stick to your conscience and regardless of how big the enemy may be you can stand up for yourself and you can fight against these individuals may not be a good outcome but as i have always myself i would never let you all see to something that i did not did and i would never be able to face myself in the mirror doing such a thing so contrary to my character and i think the same things can be said about

chelsea manning john kiriakou emmett yet julian son jeffrey sterling thank you my pleasure thank you very much after the break ahead of the 128 but they have britain's labor party and as members start voting on a replacement for jeremy corbyn we also have all the labor cabinet minister of the party of the working class is relevant in boris johnson's birth oliseh morgan have a budget of going underground. has changed american lives. but pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. based drugs talk to people who are chronic pain patients and believe that their opioid prescription is working for them on the remedy be certain to. price at the. grocery dependency and addiction to opiates to long term

use that really isn't scientifically justified and i'll study actually suggested that the long term effects might not just be absence of benefit but actually that they might be cause or long term. thinking of getting a new drug the ones we got in our shelter crowd was as he didn't know until he was trapped in this tiny well wired how much we don't need to create with him the wall . reaching out into the wall when it's pretty much anywhere near and thousands of breeding dogs are changed in the into lane conditions on puppy farm i mean 67 years you know they've been locked up in a cage outside you see no protection from the weather the heat you know the courtier the rain the snow the founder nothing they have no protection. because you . know it's ok. across the u.s. cruel puppy mills are supported by dog shows and pet stores most of the puppies are

coming from these large scale factory farming kind of operations are being sold in stores even joined a group businesses are involved like ogling mom santa there has been a shocking amount of the organizing opposition to adverts to increase the standards of care for dogs bred in commercial breeding for so many most of that opposition is coming from huge agricultural groups and industries that have nothing to do with jobs don't buy dog on a hearty. welcome back well to more of the 120th birthday of the british labor party now thanks to john. we called in the largest socialist movement in any major country but the party now if i did self amidst an increasingly fractured leadership battle of the defeat at the polls in december joining me now is former labor cabinet minister lord clarke of when dimia who served as child serve the duchy of lancaster under tony blair you also served as they were shadow secretary defense and shadow agriculture minister your black thank thanks for coming on the show corbin turned into the largest social movement

repeatedly in western europe is it now finished you know far from it and i think we've got a funk jeremy corbin for the way he's got all of a nice support and you know the last election december is very confusing because if you look at it in catastrophic well you say catastrophic but remember we normally have 40 seats in scotland we had one we did almost a wipe out in wales you know for labor we lost a lot to c.c. this time and if you look at england in spite of the red dwarf that the press are focused on we've done so much better in england in december 29 teams then we did in our last catastrophic election in 1983 in 1903 we won 209 seats throughout britain

including 40 in scotland. this election we won 203 seats 6 different despite scotland going there you know all about the lake district you know the areas that is the. chatter brecht and secretary is the argument the mainstream media's candidate to be the next labor leader was it just bricks that his disastrous bricks of policy that lost in the election i don't think it was i mean bracks it was really symptomatic of a wider problem the seats we lost when the city seats in the north seat in manchester newcastle we won all the seats with much majorities we lost the seat on the fringes a news people were feeling alienated they didn't feel part of britain any longer and therefore the lashed out and breck's it was the way in which they showed their

views but to the election if you take working to i mean we rarely got brakes on the doorstep it was all until he called me. described workington it's all area which the mainstream media particularly homed in on as the bellwether seat of the december election yes it was that the press really picked up a good story there and run with it and grieving to ok i think he feel that and they feel the story but it's an area which is 40 miles from the m 6 no really good road to get there and they've always voted labor as indeed it did but on the right on top of that alienation they rebecca long bailey who's the call beneath a candidate touted by the mainstream media again. she said progressive patriotism you saw that patriotism as a clue to understanding these last oh yes because what you've got talking to labor

voters have deserted us by and large it was the men who do. speaking i'm going to say that and of course a disproportionate of young people in workington because there's not been jobs for years for decades so many of them have spent their time a few years in the army they got a trade there they would call it and there's nothing else nothing else but of course when they go back comb the one thing you know that afghanistan or iraq just doesn't matter they've been there they fought there and it made them even more pottery how to make the silver jeremy call bit as. dick a not was the key thing so many labor voters. i believe in their country because nothing else to believe. traditionally did nothing to believe in and therefore they were they believed in britain right or wrong some may say that the reason jeremy coleman was able to increase their membership by such a great amount with the people that never would vote or take part in labor party

politics they were inspired by corbin if we look at some of the pictures of the former prime ministers the few they were but i mean this is in the 120 years they're all war prime ministers at the them of the attlee obviously working with church and then the malaria merge and see for rubber to get the money for the n.h.s. there's wilson who didn't go to vietnam but arguably covertly was involved in the vietnam war is a man called tony blair the 2 you served under yeah i mean we take her wilson i mean he was very brave in vietnam he resisted america america was desperate to get us to go in to be at nam how old wilson said we're not going to go there and he obviously worked with the americans i mean clearly he did but he we weren't part of that effort and i think he believed he paid the price for that lack of support of the vietnam war which killed 4000000 people maybe maybe that's right and you can

judge it but i mean you go back to otley clearly i mean churchill was fighting the war utley was running the country and in a sense was preparing for i don't think he set out to do this but the outcome was he was preparing for that great labor victory in $45.00 and that the labor party itself. all parts of the labor party lecture all the liberal labor leadership candidates will be talking about the great age of play in the n.h.s. and so on. we now know papers are still not being released about herbicide used in the malaya emergency how many thousands were killed under clement attlee is leadership isn't that the boy that we aren't facing the fact that labor has been responsible for a brutal imperialism in all its time in power well i'm not sure if it's right to try to judge events of 607080 years ago by today's standards that's the 1st thing the lack of knowledge the 2nd things if we're going to survive eve taking up your

own regional point and prosper we've got to start looking forward we've got to offer something to the people of britain not only rebalancing between the southeast and the rest of the country but between parts of the rest of the country i mean i for my thoughts are more a trump and says by the way here you just said yes but i do moving the treasury to teesside in the well and moving the house a load where you work up there yeah jobs go there before you well know he hasn't got before and he's got it wrong to start with why would you say your book it's not typical of the red walls they voted labor in your book review what happened to his chance maybe maybe moving things up there was to do with the bad weather and the ability flooding going on up. areas ok but care storm of the mainstream media obviously wants to be the heir apparent to all of this he voted against an investigation into tony blair's iraq or even to form

a surveillance in the investigatory powers act he. stained on the welfare act which disproportionally affected men women and children in the disabled he he he actually altered legal guidelines as head of the d.p.p. to charge those. on benefits with fraud under the ford act so they could send 10 years in jail for mine the welfare or claimant excesses emily thornberry wanted to think went away more 14 years. i mean kissed on will be destroyed by the left of the body just for those things surely if he's later i learned she does a communist by the mainstream media well that's right that's one of the problems one has in the labor party and but we've always had that problem it may be greater now i don't know i can't make a judgment even looking back after all is yes we shouldn't forget the origins of the labor party and the beliefs of the labor party of using science and technology

to make life better for the future of ordinary people in this country and not what i think we may have forgotten. in some of the recent years we've got to look to the for the future that's what germany was getting at with broadband and it was loft even though and of course there are food banks now in britain and one in 4 children are in poverty supply haps that's where the broadband was lost but wasn't corben appealing to that will sony an idea of technology and the the white white heat of technology he was absolutely right absolutely right we need our t. in every house in a country so generally coping was absolutely right but on the other hand as i said the un report there for liberals to the said the poverty chosen by the coalition to build democratic tory party was a political decision so bad is the inequality and wages have not kept up to that

level since the napoleonic wars it means nothing broadband to someone who can't feed their family and needs a food bank to to eat tonight well no but we've got to look to the future and also learn from the past i mean. territory yes of the liberal coalition with the with the tories when they cut nurse training by 10000 a year for 3 years that's why we're in the difficulty we're in with you know a 100000 people short in the health service where the whole service is straining at the edges because of the cuts they made their territory was a big big mistake and we should not have forgotten the keynesian approach to economics which i observe or as johnson seems to be employing now ok well just finally corruption is also being associated certainly perhaps by the detractors in the mainstream media with the labor party whether we will soon is raincoats whether

it be tony blair's cigarettes and the gambling obsession by gordon brown of putting . betting shops in every high street which the tories i think of curved a little what would care hardy say today about the labor party. well of course the interesting thing is that the stone didn't things that hard it was after. minimum wage. and all the other things that can hardly stood for blair tony blair actually implemented with one exception keir hardie wanted to ban drinkers well tony didn't go that far. but but i don't care i would well maybe tens of millions killed wounded or displaced from the war the yeah well working class people the internet anyone talking of yes i mean it is generally

working class people not all who lose their lives in the labor party was formed 120 years ago certainly probably about 80 percent of the people in this country with their heartens now it's less than 10 percent it's a completely different world and labor's got to adapt to that pretty quickly tony blair adapt to it and i do find it rather strange the way people constantly run down tony blair and the government and the gordon brown putting the 2 together they were a very successful government well they're judged by one other doctor still talk about peer fire and the methods of hospital funding i've got to ask also about the major issue about the labor party as regards the mainstream media is not the minimum wage is not trade union workplace rights is not maternity leave. and these things it is anti semitism all the candidates say it is now anti semitic to call israel

a racist endeavor something one good one could even see in the israeli press do you consider all the leaders that at. the semitism for them will be the key because the me mainstream media writes their priorities well the media certainly have an effect on that but to the ordinary people in the country it is things like trade union rights or workers' rights it is things like improving the health service it's things like maternity care it's things like care when you discharged from hospital that's what concerns people in this country and the conflation with selling weapons to the israeli government to factor in in children well i mean the whole. efforts of the labor government of trying to get you know the 2 parties solution the 2 countries solution is still in my judgment a lot it's been discounted somewhat is still the most likely way forward to achieve to achieve a long term peace i mean it we should and should perhaps shouldn't have happened

although she has to go to create a separate country of israel but we did you couldn't live without all bombing in gaza this week but logon to thank you so much thank you that's actually a favorite episode of the most recent season of going underground will continue to show your favorite episode of the web back on wednesday the 22nd of april until then try to keep safe and make sure to join me on the ground by following other news your twitter facebook instagram and zach that. seemed wrong. just don't call. me. yet to stamp out this they become educated and engagement equals betrayal.

when so many find themselves worlds apart. she says to look for common ground. has changed american lives but pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. based drugs the people who are chronic pain patients believe that their opioid prescription is working for them on the remedy be set to the price that they pay closer dependency and addiction to opiates the long term use that really isn't scientifically justified and i'll study actually suggested that. the long term effects might not just be absence of benefit but actually that it might be causing long term. humanity is on the edge of a precipice thanks to

a continuing destruction of the natural world. we just seem laid out a lot of bills lots of. losing much of a later period. let them everything you can hold up. the bill you. got over the war 30 or near. the bottom with. me dealing in the muslim world as i am will. sit around and stuffing and shit the same stupid as they are and the. human activity has brought us to the brink of the world's 6th major extinction of it and the people in this film just can't take it anymore.

the german government proposed to gradually lift the nation wide long. under control. factions also this hour. the largest state sponsor and this is the 3rd or 4th pandemic that came out of china u.s. politicians continue to blame china with one republican senator saying washington should respond with sanctions. on the holy father is lifting jerusalem as the celebrations get underway for thousands of churches around the world because.