a matter of time soon you're watching going underground the whole team here hope you're all safe we're away until wednesday the 22nd of april but in the meantime we're screening some of your favorite episodes of the sofa coming up in this show what does a u.s. funded u.k. lawyer mean when he references a case of secret cia nuclear warhead a blueprint smuggling to iran as a benchmark for songes extradition to virginia we talked to the espionage act convicted form a cia spy named checked in court jeffrey sterling and 24 hours ahead of the 120th

birthday of the u.k. labor party whose trade unionist and socialist beginnings began a new age in political representation of the working plus we ask a former labor cabinet minister whatever happened to raising the scarlet stamp to tie all the civil coming up today is going on the ground 1st extradition proceedings are underway today in london as the usa tries to get its hands on the most famous publisher and journalists in the world julian assange faces 175 years in jail in the q.c. for the usa james lewis is citing former cia spy jeffrey sterling to secure the australian wiki leaks found his removal to virginia geoffrey stilling now joins me via skype from st louis in missouri jeffrey thanks so much for coming on the show so you know all about the tactics of the u.s. deep state racism persecution at the cia what do you make of your name being quoted in court if i didn't writable their name dropping. the course of their position and saying i guess they were referring back to the sentencing. for me shows how

reasonable it can be of one thing the experience you mention was that in my prosecution persecution over yes you know there was absolutely no evidence yeah they had they obviously said it was circumstantial evidence so the us authorities say but james lewis has his q.c. his exact words were your case and the case did involve pretty bizarre covert smuggling of nuclear warhead blueprints to iran to perhaps create war who knows specifically lewis said you and that case was a relevant benchmark for the prosecution and sentencing does that mean he will get a 175 years at least i was facing are also over a 100 years based on yes you know it's our chance that i was alone and i did he may not only in my case that be you know the judge are going to be clear in stating that the sensing guy rights or way out of balance i think should realize and

understood that it was a completely circumstantial evidence with no case and the government actually prove nothing but dark being on the government's side she's certainly going to hear and sentence me to i guess she thought there was a sunni only are 42 months in prison lined out that mr assad will receive that same mercy or we've talked to people who have been in the court they say they can see all the u.s. officials and then you hear a british q.c. to speaking the words what do you think why do you think they might have been using your case so early on in the proceedings at this south london court and they trying to tie up the cia are they trying to connect a publisher and journalist to someone who like you consider themselves a wrongly convicted former cia officer i think what they're doing is. considering be efforts to use the espionage act with their own. only darker juicy

to quiet the sentence acquired free speech i think it does make sense and where you know her purse or to wait for them to mention my case because there was an appeal in my case where the government won't be appealed so you finally decide i'm clearing me confusion about whether the government would go after the press were injured or violating just you know. be a son's case that's tradition proceeding is a further a starbucks and it shows that the government my government will use any method necessary to acquire said what did you make of them then saying this same q.c. lewis representing the usa pointing out that wiki leaks cables were founded well he's a former cia proxy asama bin laden's house in pakistan what do you think when you think they were going with that case to try and get as saddam's to virginia it's all about him it's and they want to create an image so mr assad he's an enemy suger

free moral that he's a terrorist if you will and making him sort of connection with. some of the larger just fulfills their purpose to make that image the bible or any other court in the world with me during my trial the only thing that i see. for the trial the only thing accrued beyond a reasonable doubt was that i was black and they have theirs they have to show during my trial because there is no evidence that i was there is on the ruling on american black men who have the nerve to stand up against the cia and u.s. government yeah in your book i wanted to spy the persecution of an american whistleblower you say that racism the worst racism was not in missouri it was in northern virginia where they want to bring julian a songes of course a publisher and i and a journalist not even a whistleblower what would he be facing he said not only racism but a right wing. thing ideology exists in that area so the only dark corridors in your

is they are our home field if you will with us government their court routinely. rules in favor of the government with the conservative hammer everything north a law what i face even with regards to jury there was no one on that yuri that was black you know out in american most of the members of that jury also herit some sort of connection with our security clearances so there was already that i think assumption by other they better do the right thing by the government or maybe they were a mountain so he could not receive a fair trial in virginia i don't think that's certainly what the united nations measure up to neil's meltzer told us on monday's a show but the defense team also saying that this trial which the british authorities think is worth having here in london they say that the cia cut

out they allege a cia cut that spanish security firm was bugging the conversations of the lawyers we had geoffrey robertson q.c. one of the top human rights barristers in the world him saying that that the cia were up to this kind of thing is that the kind of thing that the cia do bug people's conversations with their lawyers i think you know i had words known show rebirth sort of activity by cia or n.s.a. is certainly possible and does indeed happen i can't so i cannot of course speak to any direct knowledge or apne but there is certainly within the earth you incapability of either also organizations well you wouldn't be able to tell me or. have good in the. helping the enemy that's another thing the barrister for the united states of america versus julian songe said and he said there also that the official secrets act here trumps the u.n. charter and the european human rights act what do you make about this. helping the

enemy at charge i think again that perhaps you go into the image aspect there and i think it's quite disingenuous of the state to make any sort of claims about any sort of harm because if he eventually years since to america to face trial under the espionage act the government doesn't have to prove any sort of harm for them to do so now all bolster extradition i think just shows that this is a political our prosecution what it's like what the soviet union. yes absolutely they have to portray this matter and as an enemy. particularly to the united states and to the world it will be a very sad day for speech and legal process in general you know years mr science extradited to the u.s. the lawyer again noted to the judge that there's no public interest defense for a publisher or journalist that was changed in this country not sure whether you're

up to speed on this a the family of a u.k. teenager killed by an alleged cia spy they have been supporting julian assange saying they want to see i suspect the cia spy to cool us and so google is extradited here but they don't want to sign it's taken away from just being a journalist is it one rule for the cia and one for not cia oh absolutely absolutely a dirty murder trial it was an incredible war out there you saw are claiming national security national secrets was only for their benefit. as i stayed in my book i sued the c.r.a. for discrimination my suit was not allowed to go forward because the c.i. a and b. b. an administration claim barracks if i were to go or work with my discrimination case there were holes a threat to the national security of the united states u.s. government in general will use it to their defense and also use it to go after its enemies yet that same sort of situation is not allowed to be used by individuals

who are complaints about the u.s. or trying to stand up to the u.s. government so is it is excess for strategy because they can point to you and right now if there is someone thinking of blowing the whistle on wrongdoing in langley at headquarters or it the myriad cia stations around the world they just can't now again it's a strategy of deterrence they're all chilled out if you say anything that we don't like i will go at you and look weak. jeffery sterling stepped out why it will be such a one sided affair where the government is able to do whatever they will are there in the trial but anyone trying to defend against that because of the complications . of the national security will be very difficult i did my best fight against all of that but it was a hell of about and of course it's not just purely innocent to the u.n.

repertoire says torture knob charlie detained by british authorities here it's chelsea manning who refuses to testify against a songe and who who is imprisoned there in the united states obama commuted jealousy manning sentence of 35 years saying it is disproportionate your vice president mike pence said there was a mistake to commute the sentence do you think u.s. authorities really want a songe manning dead is an example i don't know that they want her back would not serve the purpose of putting these individuals so as an example of what can happen if anyone decides to whistle or say or do you really think it may be an embarrassment to the u.s. government how would you advise someone out there right now who has seen wrongdoing in the intelligence services the intelligence community the military industrial complex given what you've been through i would say stick to. your inclination and stick to your stopping your guns and gold stay the course oh don't be intimidated

by threats of. retaliation are reprisal those are very real aspects concerning whistleblower but for anyone to even say the steps to think about coming forward that in itself is a very powerful. thing to do hopefully with a discussion or was laura service happen maybe we can finally see more protections whistleblowers take it out of the. political route. i think yes i mean that be a good example for someone who is wanting to expose government wrongdoing but it's doing the right thing so unique person and i think even with these actions against me elsie manning john to react to you and julian assange arts. i think you can despite that people have integrity. and know how to do the right thing and i

don't think this is going to squelch any of that even if it isn't covert attempt at infringing the un charter you wouldn't advise a whistleblower a journalist a publisher any of them to to attack the intelligence services for racism no i am not saying don't do anything like that because there are certainly reprisals but i'm just saying stand up be yourself stick to your integrity and stick to your conscience and regardless of how big the enemy may be you can stand up for yourself and you can't fight against these individuals may not be a good outcome but as i have always myself i would never let you all see to something that i did not do and i would never be able to face myself in the mirror doing such a thing so contrary to my character and i think the same things can be said about the man in john kiriakou emmett yet julian jeffrey sterling thank you my pleasure

thank you very much after the break the head of the 128 but they have britain's labor party and as members start voting on a replacement for jeremy corbin we also have all the labor cabinet minister of the party of the working class is relevant in boris johnson's were all of them are going to have a budget of going underground. i'm not for. decapitating anybody but i am pretty capitalizing all the wall street bankers by shifting the center of gravity of money from the dollar and fear to bitcoin and that's perfectly within our purview with the our scope as a global citizens who wish justice justice through free competition and hard money that's the only justice that matters that's

a stain of all that's real that doesn't rely on politicians. welcome back well to more of the 120th birthday of the british labor party now thanks to jeremy corbyn the largest socialist movement in any major country but the party now if i did self amidst an increasingly fractured leadership battle of the defeat at the polls in december joining me now is former labor cabinet minister lord clarke of windham here who served as a child star of the dutch of lancaster under tony blair you also served as they were shadow secretary defense and shadow agriculture minister look like thank you thanks for coming on the show corbin turned into the largest social movement repeatedly in western europe is it now finished no far from it and i think we've got to thank jeremy corbyn for the way he's gulliver and i support and you know the last election december is very confusing because if you look at it in catastrophic well you say catastrophic but remember we normally have 40 seats in scotland we

had one we did almost a wipe out in wales you know for labor we lost a lot of seats this time and if you look at england in spite of the red wall that the press are focused on we've done so much better in england in december 29 t. then we did in our last catastrophic election in 1983 in 1903 we won $209.00 seats throughout britain including 40 in scotland. this election we won 203 seats 6 different despite scotland going there you know all about the lake district you know about the areas that is the church. dharma chatter brecht and secretary is the argument the mainstream media's candidate to be the next labor leader was it just bricks

that his disastrous bricks of policy that lost in the election i don't think it was i mean bracks it was really symptomatic of a wider problem the seats we lost when the city seats in the north seat in manchester newcastle we won all the seats with mushy majorities we lost the seat on the fringes and news people were feeling alienated they didn't feel part of britain any longer and therefore the lashed out and breck's it was the way in which they showed their views but to the election if we take working to i mean we rarely got brakes on the doorstep it was all until called me. describe workington it's an area which the mainstream media particularly homed in on as the bellwether seat of the december election yes it was that the press really picked up a good story there and run with it

a neighbor rightly think i think feel that and they feel the story but it's an area which is 40 miles from the ems takes no really good road to get there and they've always voted labor as indeed it did but on the right on top of that alienation they rebecca long bailey who's the core beneath a candidate touted by the mainstream media again. she said progressive patriotism you saw that patriotism as a clue to understanding these last oh yes because what you've got talking to labor voters have deserted us by and large it was the men who'd. speaking i'm going to say that and of course a disproportionate of young people in workington because there's not been jobs for years for decades so many of them have spent their time a few years in the army they've got a trade there they would call it and there's nothing else nothing else but of

course when they go back home the one thing you know that afghanistan or iraq just doesn't matter they've been there they fought there and it made them even more pottery how to make these super jeremy corbett as. dick a not was the key thing so many labor voters. i believe in their country because nothing else to believe. traditionally didn't think to believe it and therefore they were they believed in britain right or wrong some may say that the reason jeremy coleman was able to increase their membership by such a great amount with the people that never would vote or take part in labor party politics they were inspired by corbin if we look at some of the pictures of the former prime ministers of the few labor prime ministers in the 120 years they're all war prime ministers at the them of that plea obviously working with church within the malaria merge and see for rubber to get the money for the n.h.s. the wilson who didn't go to vietnam but arguably covertly was involved in the

vietnam war is a man called tony blair that you served under yeah i mean we take her wilson i mean he was very brave in vietnam he resisted america america was desperate to get us to go in to be at nam how old wilson said we're not going to go there and he obviously worked with the americans me clearly he did but he we weren't part of that effort and i think he believed he paid the price for that lack of support of the vietnam war which killed 4000000 people maybe maybe that's right and you can judge it but i mean you go back to otley clearly i mean churchill was fighting the war utley was running the country and in a sense was preparing for i don't think he set out to do this but the outcome was he was preparing for that great labor victory in 45 and that the labor party itself . all parts of the labor party and i'm sure all the liberal labor leadership

candidates will be talking about the great age of cleon the n.h.s. and so on. we now know papers are still not being released about herbicides used in the malaya emergency how many thousands were killed under clement attlee his leadership isn't that the boy that we aren't facing the fact that labor has been responsible for a brutal imperialism in all its time in power well i'm not sure if it's right to try to judge events of 607080 years ago by today's standards that's the 1st thing the lack of knowledge and the 2nd thing is if we're going to survive eve taking up your own regional point and prosper we've got to start looking forward we've got to offer something to the people of britain not only rebalancing between the southeast and the rest of the country but between parts of the rest of the country i mean i for my thoughts are more a trump and says by the way here you just said yes but i do moving the treasury to

teesside in the well and moving the house where you work up there yeah go there before you well know he hasn't got before and he's got it wrong to start with why would you say york it's not typical of the red walls they voted labor in your book review what happened to his chance such a job and maybe maybe moving things up there was to do with the bad weather and the ability flooding going on up. areas ok but care storm of the mainstream media obviously wants to be the heir apparent to all of this he voted against an investigation into tony blair's iraq or even to for mass surveillance in the investigatory powers act he. stayed on the welfare act which disproportionately affected men women and children in the disabled he he he actually altered legal guidelines as head of the d.p.p. to charge those. on benefits with fraud under the ford act so they could send 10

years in jail for mine the welfare or claimant excesses emily thornberry wanted to think went to way more 14 years. i mean kids don't mind we destroyed by the left of the body just for those things surely if he's later i learned she does a communist by the mainstream media well that's right that's one of the problems one has in the labor party and what we've always had that problem it may be greater now i don't know i can't make a judgment even looking back after all we shouldn't forget the origins of the labor party and the beliefs of the labor party of using science and technology to make life better for the future of ordinary people in this country and not what i think we may have forgotten. in some of the recent years we've got to look to the for the future that's what germany was getting at with broadband and it was loft at

even though and of course there are food banks now in britain and one in 4 children are in poverty supply haps that's where the broadband was lost but wasn't corben appealing to that will sony an idea of technology in the the white white heat of technology he was absolutely right absolutely right we need our key in every house in the country so generally coping was absolutely right but on the other hand as i said the un repertoire for liberals to said the poverty chosen by the coalition to build democratic tory party was a political decision so bad is the inequality and wages have not kept up to that level since the napoleonic wars it means nothing broadband to someone who can't feed their family and needs a food bank to to eat tonight well no but we've got to look to the future and also learn from the past i mean. territory yes of the liberal coalition with the with

the tories when they cut nurse training by 10000 a year for 3 years that's why we're in the difficulty we're in with you know a 100000 people short in the health service where the whole services straining at the edges because of the cuts they made their territory was a big big mistake and we should not have forgotten the keynesian approach to economics which i was able as johnson seems to be employing now ok well just finally corruption is also being associated by the detractors in the mainstream media with the labor party whether we will thousands raincoats whether it be tony blair's cigarettes and the gambling obsession by gordon brown of putting. betting shops in every high street which the tories i think of curved a little what would care how would he say today about the labor party. well of course the interesting thing is that the town didn't things that hard it was

after. minimum wage. and all the other things that can hardly stood for blair tony blair actually implemented with one exception keir hardie wanted to ban drink as well and tony didn't go that far rightly so. but but i don't care i would want maybe tens of millions killed wounded or displaced from a war that yeah well working people we'll tonight it all kind of yes i mean it is generally working class people not always who lose their lives when the labor party was formed 120 years ago certainly probably about 80 percent of the people in this country with their heartens now it's less than 10 percent it's a completely different world and labor's got to adopt to that pretty quickly tony blair adapted to it and i do find it rather strange the way people constantly run

down tony blair and the government and the gordon brown putting the 2 together they were very successful government well they're judged by one other doctor still talk about peer fire new methods of hospital funding i've got to ask also about the major issue about the labor party as regards the mainstream media is not the minimum wage is not trade union workplace rights is not maternity leave. and these things it is anti semitism all the candidates say it is now anti semitic to call israel a racist endevor something one could one could even see in the israeli press do you consider all the leaders that at. the semitism for there will be the key because the me mainstream media writes their priorities well the media certainly have an effect on that but to the ordinary people in the country it is things like trade union rights a worker's rights it is things like improving the health service it's things like

maternity care it's things like care when you discharge in hospital that's what concerns people in this country and the conflation with selling weapons to the israeli government to factor in in children well i mean the whole. efforts of the labor government of trying to get you know the 2 parties solution the 2 countries solution is still in my judgment a lot it's been discounted somewhat is still the most likely way forward to achieve to achieve a long term peace i mean it we should and should perhaps shouldn't have happened no lucius to go to create a separate country of israel but we did you could live with that well bombing in gaza this week would log wind of it thank you so much thank you that's it for your favorite episode of the most recent season of going underground will continue to show your favorite episode the web back on wednesday the 22nd of april until then

try to keep safe and make sure to join me on the ground by following of the you tube twitter facebook instagram stop that. has changed american lives but pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. based drugs the people who are chronic pain believe that their opiate prescription is working for them and the remedy be said to. price that they pay closer dependency and addiction to opiates the long term use that really isn't scientifically justified and i'll study actually suggested that the long term

effects might not just be absence of benefit but actually that they might be causing long term. a lot of lawmakers in the state of missouri that we know receive huge. contributions from agricultural industry groups those are the groups that opposed 'd proposition b. and there is no doubt in our minds that those same groups pressured lawmakers to overturn proposition b. and before the session even started there were bills that were pretty filed to do just that you feel bad because it was repealed but you know all of your work all of your effort paid off has made a dramatic difference for this i mean just the fact that over almost half of these facilities are out of business who could've been vision that things are definitely much improved with many of the worst operations eliminated but you.