right. i'm afshin rattansi and you're watching going underground the whole team here hope you're all safe we're away until wednesday the 22nd of april but in the meantime we're screening something a favorite episodes of the so far coming up in this show are you comfortably numb close to 10 years since collateral murder revealed nato nations indiscriminate targeting of journalists and civilians former pink floyd front man what to watch as the british government persecuting wiki leaks founder julian assange plus agreed in an industry exposed by wiki leaks as london fashion week shuts down its glamorous

facade we talked to steve coogan and michael winterbottom about their satire on capitalism featuring the last ever on screen performance of u.k. celebrity caroline flack both of all coming up in today's going underground the 1st ahead of next week's hearings on the trial of julian assange still heard nothing from u.k. labor leadership contenders in defense of the wiki leaks publisher but one candidate for deputy richard bergen has been speaking out going underground fine ahmed caught up with him. it's important that we speak out against the actual vision of julian assange who codes end up in prison in the united states of america for 175 years people have got to look at what's his given reason was given rise to this situation you've got to look at the. crimes that we kill akes exposed the truth the wiki leaks spoken for example look at the. video which came out in 2010

a video which went around the world and horrified people showing innocent civilians in iraq being gunned down that wouldn't have been seen by other words if it hadn't have been quickly simulate the wall logs in relation to iraq and afghanistan and similarly the treatment of people in guantanamo bay it is because if we're killing the world knows about these things because it wiki leaks the world has seen the evidence of these things vitally important in a democracy the. truth is known that we know what the powerful do in our name in the name of every citizen in this country so we need to speak up what we call it says don't need to depend defend press freedom we need to speak out against the extradition of jews in the united states america through feeling these atrocities for revealing these crimes or even revealing these horrors of war and you fair with our son so now with

a large majority in parliament western and genocides does get extras the united states due for parcells and assad cracking down on press freedoms head. i think one of the great problems with this situation is that it's almost giving a warning to other journalists don't expose war crimes don't expose the truth don't expose the horrors of war because this may happen to you as well just imagine what would have happened when you look at the vietnam war and the trust that is committed by the night. states of america that if the journalists expose those atrocities were prosecuted afterwards it's important that the world knows the truth and horror of war and we must carry on speaking out about this and just finally of course now john magaw and yourself have a pet is about this officer innocent but i wasn't as much what i was as much vocal support during the riots of the general election so will the labor party be mournful for sporting events and from now on well before the general election

jeremy crowe been down our butts and myself and others spoke out against the extradition of julie the sound show leadership part so it was clear on these matters of course the labor party itself now has to decide what it wants a leadership going forward to be clear on these matters but it's a matter for labor members to decide if the labor leadership can they reject bergen their joining me now is someone who refuses to be silent over julian songe things like co-founder roger waters roger thanks for coming in the studio at last a sign of the finely exactly you've been campaigning for julie as songe eloquently they have talked about them by richard berke and you know that the british guardian newspaper maybe channel 4 news if you watch that you could be forgiven for thinking you know and which of bergen and others are basically campaigning for a russian agent who's committed sex crimes i mean everything that he's said now in

strew. how they're even having these extradition. trial for jude in asuncion is weird because it's goes completely contrary as we know to u.k. law so our law the law of this country the little that supposed to represent always addition treaty with the united today has a treaty but it specifically precludes anything that could be claimed to be a political crime or a political misdemeanor which obviously this is because julian is is only crime is to speak the truth to the people and he's speaking truth though to a powerful elite to do not want the truth spoken to the people to go to serve is obviously believes that the espionage act that hacking these are crimes that you can exude i think they do i thin as 600 the powers that be in washington d.c. have decided that they want julian killed or at least imprisoned for the rest of

his is health it's extremely pole. and and they want to be locked up forever as an example it's frightening to know that any minute they could be that standard issue kicking in the door and your talk of you know stuck into beaumarchais where you will stay until they've had their way with you which is to silence you and any who might follow you which is that which is i mean apart from the fact that julian assange. is clearly a great journalists he went he wouldn't and he went to places that other journalists were not going and he developed methods. to help we the people to find out the truth of what was going on in our names in other posts that look like as richard bergen was saying the collateral murder in baghdad well why do you think then that amnesty international has chosen to declare

a songes new prisoner of conscience. i did not know that what an earth does not me i mean i'm i'm asking you because you know you have worked so you could probably explain to me them what the hell is a prisoner of conscience they've come up amnesty have in the in the last few years come up with some very strange fever some very strange things that are not necessarily based on anything that you and i might consider to be the fact of the matter how entrenched of these elite forces then kissed on the secure store them or is one of the leading candidates to replace jeremy corbyn as leader of the opposition nearly oversaw as the head of the prosecution service here the edge persecution of julian. is it all through our society of course lace but you know politicians politicians that tricky animals because they've always got one eye on

them on the meter they're always looking to see where they stand how much power they have how popular they are or they aren't well horrific arenas have to perform and a lot of them says overkill for musicians to a very young aspiring musician later taylor swift as someone started talking like you presumably rick would do the recording companies would get quite alone at alienating audiences will that it is true in my in my industry absolutely. there's not a great oh dear straight talking coming out of i'm 76 years old i've been doing this for 55 years it was a video not quite so. and also. i have survived to date with but now brith had counted wrote a letter to the major m.o.p. saying that it was appalling that they were what is having tickets for my shows

what they always claim is i'm a self of no a valid they said a woman of about long standing a vowed anti semi who spreads a treat. that's a could according to them and they do it because i support b.d.s. because i support human rights lawyer because divestment and sanctions a vote could have essman is or was the e.u. does not support explicitly do you think there's something different about this obviously jeremy corbin was heavily attacked for supporting palestine and bernie sanders whose relatives died in the holocaust this some of been accusing bernie sanders of anti semitism trying to hang time the time to hang over in support of ellison his son is with the same code that they hung coping with by smearing smear tactics and this trait sure of julian is so to this post to use it now with the with the flag. this is why we feel

a lot of the time well the d.n.c. obviously has been alleged to be attacking bernie sanders over the primary season just says they did in 2016 where they prevented him from becoming the next president of the united states then could you see why people at the games are russian agent because it stemmed from wiki leaks the gain russian gave the you know russia has been the biggest waste of time literally wasting everybody's time for the last what did it come from i mean it's so due to chris there were about an identifiable ball steering the 2016 how in a minute what foreign countries interfering in american elections what about $100000000.00 that adelson has just given to donald trump the game re-elected there's a little money arguably also going to certain interests in latin america trying to overturn the the old pink tide if we have a little bit of those we know that's how the game works on guy who was hosted by

prime minister boris johnson in downing street he met with foreign secretary dominic rob what do you make of these pictures of him being feted here in london. it makes me want to throw up because guido is of the right wing thug who was used by the united states government as the figurehead in there or sent to overthrow the jouni elected democratic. government of the sovereign country of venezuela in contravention of every international law and the un charter and everything else because why because they want to make money this isn't a hidden secret war leg during the ages this is the european union and britain both recognizing what it was here shows how it was a city a state in the attack by neo liberal economics and the war mongering of the powerful elites how insidiously has wormed its way into places of

power it's a bit like in germany the buddhists coming out and declaring. b.d.'s a throne even member not what they said but they had some if they seriously have well at all leadership labor candidate it's well the ugly greed that. how to i i mean every time there's no election when i was a kid our front room was a committee room for the local labor party whoa the local labor party from 55 on and before that for the coming this party so my mom would be turning in no growth a lot of people have also been saying why do leftwing candidates like corbin like saunders talk about palestine why do they talk about venezuela these are irrelevant to me a real liberal destruction a manufacturing jobs why are they relevant because you always campaign on these particular issues that everyday people concerned about their own lives might not

think relevant to them this trust me. 2 of my great heroes in life are ken loach and john pilger who sadly can be areas in australia go a note from him this morning but i've seen joan poaches 2 hour long documentary in its school the dirty war on the n.h.s. and it's about the dismantling of the national health service in this country so if you really want to get me started i could weep. sitting here today knowing that the national health service which is the jury in the crown of the possible that cedes away might be moving towards a more equitable world off to the 2nd world war to see it being so down the river by the boris johnson since i need less of margaret thatcher's if this wealth just breaks my heart it's design stuff for it to be privatized any of it well be that

more for roger waters of this short break plus is the death of british t.v. star caroline flack renewed scrutiny of rupert murdoch's media empire we speak to a man at the heart of a u.k. inquiry into mainstream media oscar nominated steve coogan about media manipulation and his new film greed satirizing the 1000000000 is of the fashion industry old visible coming up above to have going underground. the world is driven by dreamers shaped by one percent of those. who dares thinks. we dare to ask.

welcome back i'm still with roger waters the interconnectedness here that. really dressing with you gives julie that certain drug we should just now he's talking about guantanamo torture he's doing about the killing of journalists and civilians in iraq but then all of this talk about pharmaceutical companies and all sorts of corruption wrongdoing is all around the around the world you see this as a hugely interconnected says it is hugely interconnected and that's that's one thing that chiz may help somewhat is that people are in the streets in sunday out

though in chile right and where where where it started with a tiny crease in subway phases something that they've realized now that there is a movement in latin america and south america but also the in france and maybe one day there will even be an uprising in the united kingdom to say you know enough so but it was the other uprisings as a border johnson well supposedly he wanted to huge majority in poland was coming to will come to that but you know before i do in colombia now even though they even though the government there is very very extremely right wing and is a dictatorship in the people who are on a general strike the whole country is rights as well and bolivia they're not they're refusing to accept the coup again u.s. financed coup that has just taken place getting rid of the julie democratic again

britain recognizes the new leader of bolivia well 1st johnson would say anything. i mean and i find it very difficult you know to kape straight face even but the mention of that buffoons name. i'm sorry. half but it's no different than the united states where i live how do you get these people rise into these positions of extraordinary political power yeah arguably donald trump who came to power in an antiwar ticket i mean i i spoke to judaism's in the ecuadorian embassy about how hillary clinton. could will of got us into a full scale war involving syria i'm sure she trump was an antiwar president yet and yet and yet the united states' involvement in the wars abroad has actually increased in this spending more money on it than they were in any previous administration under trump i mean and let's not write off the possibility that

trump may do something credibly insanely stupid at the behest of the neocons visibly iran is already has murdering that monitoring customs eliminate again exactly well if you can get millions around the world to support drilling a songe like he is a latter day nelson mandela. i did into g. politics at least has been presumably there's been massive progress on it since you started out but even in their. own like jails the manning who is refusing to testify against judaism and it's day 346 of her it because our ancient tongue credit was a brave woman people think chelsea manning is a traitor and that she deserves everything that she gets the hatred was so intense music has been such a great part of rebellion against elites over history obviously in south africa and so on presumably that's why you turned up outside the home office here to protest

about the incarceration of julie the surge hardly any people turned up i have have to say are you saying that again propaganda hardly any people turned up and not a single word was printed in any english or american newspaper of that event apart from on r t but obviously what journalists that all the television networks here would say no one told them don't cover roger waters singing wish you were here in ignorance of performance so it's a would it's in their heads oh. people aren't stupid where you think journalists are coming out and in bed drove sit in their hundreds of thousands to defend judea you don't have to write shit on people's forehead so they read it every morning when they go to shave they go oh look of mustn't step out of line or i won't get that promotion i was because i won't be given that job of this one how about one when you fly a big pig above

a demonstration of the mother of all parliaments what are you drawing to do. get attention. like for instance a pig that we've got flying over here now. has got a big picture of julian in the american flag over his face and it says free is in on the of the so it is describes the moment where it's going to stop from what's going to finish and the fat going to be on it and i'm going to open my big mouth in public so that made the pick has become a way of attracting attention to it because people recognize it so it's familiar it's a bit like we don't need no education is familiar to most people it's in their minds so that in and if you want to get people's attention then and and and. you have access to iconic images so well it is lyrics and news

do you think the tide is not turning in julia surges favor even some mainstream media outlets may be reporting on this trial struggle monday and realizing that the very same out of the reporting of the case may not be able to do journalism i think. fingers crossed you know. one dreads to show any faith just at this particular moment where he's languishing in belmarsh in a tiny cell a man who's committed no crime and as we know the strings are being absolutely pulled from the united states it's a tiny courtroom and it's almost full of american advisors american lawyers sitting behind the english q.c. who's prosecuting who's prosecuting the case so. lou we will those of us who care about democracy and freedom and human rights and more

importantly running mate and the magna carta and english jurisprudence and the law desperately want to believe that the law will prevail because this is not the law it's a kangaroo court and to have a kangaroo court taking place in my homeland distresses me beyond all belief is this what my father my grandfather died for no it's not we need to be able to rely on the law and this is a sure or come on people let's that it's. take to the streets where i am or if you will to spank you well while julian assange just been mostly ignored by mainstream media one story that hasn't is the death of reality t.v. host caroline flack questions similar to those are asked after the deaths of princess diana and amy winehouse are being asked all over again about all agog newspapers and ironically flacks last on screen performance is to be in

a film starring steve coogan himself at the heart of an inquiry into present thinks the film greed examines the dark side of the fashion industry from the perspective of a billionaire businessman going underground caught up with the film's director michael winterbottom and coogan on the red carpet and started by asking coogan about using comedy to shine a light on the billionaire class the more clever more sophisticated super rich try to keep a low profile and don't attract attention to themselves if it. has stopped someone who uses a inspiration if you like for this is someone who did did attract attention to yourself you deliberately used him self. as sort of as they would go ahead public figure out of his company. and that in a way helped shine a light on the. super rich are you but that's what we were about were about people being supposed to do it people have money to do what they like but. such

a mash. disparity between the super rich and the super poor. it comes about that people have to say what is acceptable you know and. you know and to talk about it because the one thing the super rich have is influence a young they can be influence politicians they can influence you can buy influence by interest in newspapers and what they're able to do is to some extent it was control of brain agenda i'm not stopping the gender they want to they want to frame is one where no one no one talks about this stuff and what we're trying to do so is make me a story that michael winterbottom. i did say at the end of it the ending of a storm. of the haitian i'm salaries of the c.e.o.'s. pay the walks in bangladesh you know i marked out yeah it was some sort of so do you think that this kind of represents and some walking interests of various of the most basic of the council's cost of this film it's amazing i support filmmakers i support i support creativity

what the problem with this industry is it's a constant tension between art and commerce and when given a choice i will always side with overcoming. what you find is that the world is run by people who are box of life people who will always basically close ranks if that if that the cartel of all ages have is that the threat is about me so i support my claim well we've seen over the past couple of years especially the political climate bill you know as a super rich getting ever more scrutinized so do you think comedy like this do you think is not helping with that sort of i think scrutiny that. i think you know i well meaning documentary that appeals to you know often is. preaching to the converted speech to the choir just say and. i think comedy is a really good way to you know using comedy as a way to show you the pill. of difficult subjects is always a good thing you said it best to do comedy i don't like documentaries straight talk

about inequality and the way in which because it's grown over the last 40 years this felt like it you know and say the way you have a character like which we create a space we create really start to be like that. market and hopefully people get by the end of the film feel that you know the world should be changed in some way and it has been reported of course sony did copy and of the film you did one c.e.o. salaries compared to the walkers but do you think that represents a kind of in some locking interests of you know the 1000000000 as just by being in different industries. so do you think. that's a system opposed to paying a ransom money because i think that the don't buy the film it's not by individuals i don't like one brand is bad one brand is good it's what you get the system the market forces all the brands can be. over around the world for the cheapest possible place where they go to fight each other and can they say i was here for then i'll go to bangladesh to get i get cheaper or they get me a multi-year cheaper so it's like you know all the brands are doing all the brands

use the same faction's images it's about began with you guys it's not say this part is a bad thing but if you think that the owners are is worth $60000000000.00 but the women who make the toasters are ok pay $0.50 an hour or $0.60 an hour whatever it's to pay and what you wish to do in that gap is grotesque and what actions you want consumers to take off the stock i think they should be i think the place guys is bless them because if you can we take a look at look for 'd i think i think all suppliers and that's great but that takes me like 5 buying free range and why they tend to just get expensive it's like leasing it makes some difference to the best way to the best way to chase have got to say what we want we don't want companies to be allowed to buy this so why do we want to break a system or you know we don't want the market to be the only kind of principle holds all brands of kind of competing with other brands a brand find a cheaper place you have to pay for actually less buy that's moving from $1.00 country to another then start all the brands chasing us plus the people it's all

get richer and richer and richer just put all the money in a tax rate and just finally what the political climate now are changing and so much awareness going through we are access to think you have hope now that system is going to change i do i do think by unforeseen my own life is coincide with that honest about god 1st i serve as it was margaret thatcher and since then it's been a sense like you know you can argue with the market i think that since the financial crisis really there's been a growing sense that something should change things should be fairer that is the rich we have richer and richer it doesn't matter the inequality doesn't matter i think people are tired of that people do want to change steve coogan and michael winterbottom speaking to going underground for his arm of their. that's it but one of your favorite episodes of the most recent season of going on the ground will continue to show your favorite episode of the web back on wednesday the 22nd of april until then try to keep safe and make sure to join me on the ground by following us from you tube twitter facebook instagram and.

please. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us from the world of politics small business i'm show business i'll see that.

you. don't pull. the funding the conductor cannot see in your time another small. interest the call that seems to be because to some small false self interest was just this. little fuzzy and if you see the needle in the he sees and he sees e jordan he can hopefully this will. place he says he come along that long to do that still a little bit longer than just.