we don't know still genesis for the. end of this sort we. will still not know still just as. some of the college students i teach in prison say they never experienced overt racism growing up they were not attacked and insulted with racially derogatory language but then i asked them to describe the overcrowded schools they attended and poor urban neighborhoods the dilapidated and often unsafe facilities the lack of textbooks lab equipment and computers and the presence of police and metal detectors in the hallways the bullying and fights and constant stress that makes it hard to concentrate i then describe the princeton public schools where i live this is the modern face i tell them of racism the united states does not educate the

poor the way it educates the wealthy and it certainly does not educate them with the wealthy the separate segregated and unequal forms of education divided largely along the lines of race has punishes lee given rise to an industry that seeks to profit from the selling of education all in the name of rectifying the gross injustices meted out to poor boys and girls joining me in the studio to discuss our system of educational apartheid and the corporations who have found a way to profit from it is no leeway roque's professor at cornell university and the author of cutting school privatization segregation and the end of public education. very important book thank you so minutes and from the start you lay out. that we do know how to educate but there is

fierce resistance. not only among the ruling elites but among the liberal class i think of one point you quote a poll about how liberal whites in theory would like quality education for all children but they don't want busing right so let's just begin there we know what works. we do and one of the things i think i've discovered reading this book because you have to research the book to write it and it wasn't that i knew all of this before i started to research the book how well we know how to educate kids who are poor kids who are black kids who are let next how many teachers experiments pools superintendents we've head who have done it well and so looking over time again of the book is actually goes back to reconstruction post reconstruction and makes this argument from post reconstruction up to the 21st

century and and what i found is that there is generally support for. educational experimentation for idiosyncratic forms of education for things that sound right to people who are not in those schools not in those communities that make sense to them but the actual things that we know building up self-esteem having black teachers you know the less data that we have one black teacher before the 3rd grade for a black child increases the likelihood of college graduation by 20 percent let's talk about the industry that's been built up to profit off of educational inequality yet. you know you mention that we never educate poor kids or kids of color in the same way that we do the wealthy i think

actually grappling with how different. those forms of education are in private schools versus public schools in highly resourced districts versus struggling districts and. would you start to say well why why why are why does testing look the way that it does and why does it impact poor kids certain school districts or because i know this from the book in fact when these kids are in good schools there isn't a disparity rest we know that we know that the issue really is for me the issue began with why do we seen so committed to segregated schools segregated education why the resistance from 1954 on pre-one 1054 the 1st lawsuit arguing for a black parent arguing for equal education for their child is 848 in boston way so it's not just a sudden thing but why why is that happening and the thing that you consistently

see is you want a different kind in quality of education for some kids in the question really is what one of the answers i think that there are number of answers we tend to do sort of say racism we tend to say we just don't know each other well enough but one of the things that i consistently found is there are businesses that profit from segregation that need high levels of segregation some in the charter school industry the publicly funded privately run schools that are expanding in some urban and rural areas you know what they're really going for is what they call in 1990 schools like their their profit plays based on 1990 schools those are 90 percent children of color. 90 percent poor kids and 90 percent of kids who are performing below grade level i want to point i want to look at exactly what they do but you make

a point in the book that the wealthy schools like in princeton they're not doing this. they're not doing destroying brick and mortar for online classes and statistics you write in your a staggering in terms of the utter failure this is about to divorce of. but let's talk about how this has become an amazingly profitable industry under the guise of. socially culturally. bettering the lives of the poor reminds me of king leopold's go. by adam hochschild where king leopold is going down there commits genocide against congolese on the rubber plantations all in the name of fighting slavery it's exactly the same kind of hypocrisy but this is a huge industry i just have to point out because in the book which i did not know that michael milken the junk bond felon was just pardoned by trump and is a deep into this stuff and i think you from your book are still worth $3000000000.00

but it is a huge industry and it's very cynical and very manipulative because it in the name of confronting these injustices it perpetuates them. yet. one of the things that really led me to start looking in trying to understand this was i was teaching at princeton. and around 2009 i had all of these students who were white who were wealthy who by their own admission said they just didn't know a lot about poor communities that their schools they were you don't come to princeton by and large from struggling schools you yourself maybe from a lower socioeconomic level you just don't get there from poor schools very often so you know that all of these you know white wealthy students were like yeah we know how to solve what's wrong in struggling communities we get it we we have seen the like just trying to understand you know for a literally at 1st i was a little bit charmed and was thinking $964.00 freedom summer so at least this early

is kind of like this is kind of like that you have to figure out. i had a moment you know i have hope i'm a prisoner so i'm kind of like this group is new is a little bit different. but what they kept telling me is this is the civil rights issue for our generation this is the unfinished work of the civil rights movement they head slogans like a child's zip code should not determine the quality education all true all in arguably you know true. but up underneath what i consistently found was because they didn't know it like they just did know poor people. they would say ringback things like well the fault of under education lies in those communities lies with those parents lives with those guardians because if they valued education of those communities and those individuals were valued education the system would look like that so it was the reason i was doing it it's. it's this is i mean

they were constantly and it's not a systemic issue it's an individual issue but the permissions thing for me is that again they were speaking not from even experience which brooks is good for ray he's all like let's let you generalize my experience that they've been had an experience and yet they were going to indict entire communities and never polls the kind of education that they had it is the way to fix it from your book i mean however revolting and it is revolting this kind of. you know it's basically racial supremacy white supremacy but there are power figures bill gates. who have billions of dollars and the same attitude but the ability to do a lot of down michael bloomberg my kid leave york city schools i don't actually

talk about him much in the book but he his administration really did take a lot of these experiments that we have seen. spirit and try them out here 1st cyber education didn't start in silicon valley the most success or supposed successful examples are out in silicon valley have are they really start in new york city billionaires and diane ravitch a researcher yes so she calls them the billionaire boys club we now have women who are among. the billionaire class. steve jobs's widow is with the emerson collective funding many of these kinds of experiment till think so it's my students at princeton on steroids because unlike my students who were kind of like i get it i see the what's wrong they need more of what i have

what i know what i would do these billionaires have the money they out and expand it all across the country so from bloomberg to mark zuckerberg came into newark and pledged $100000000.00 and like a business person said you know ok 5 years you got 5 years i'll give you $100000000.00 there's actually some mention grants there but when they're all done you know we will have turned things around and we'll have demonstrably. things to show and we'll be able to scale this up everywhere and i did everyone i mean they announced this he and cory booker the mayor. chris christie governor chris christie at the time on the oprah show everyone was just as 100 but clearly clearly you have figured out how to do this and at the end of the 5 years everyone pretty much acknowledged that this was the most expensive educational failure that anyone had ever seen because they kept trying to do things the don't somewhere i want to

come back to that. when we come back we'll continue our conversation about segregation in education with professor know we were.

20 or 30000000 people unemployed down. why have they. why don't they have a state that's a very important question that we need to look at. something memorization punishing on the stomach and you know that that sent me a inching up at you. with nothing to do and that i desired to know. how much all those. local just to. fill. me up on the show was stable at. this time will push.

me to show. you prince not just punk that's the most unusual not amenable to resteal stuff it takes to do this you. call it. welcome back on contact we continue our conversation about our segregated educational system with professor know the way it works so before the break we're talking about or. explain the disaster that it it was well a big the 3 big things that they managed to do with this one over 60 percent of the money went to hire consultants to tell them what to do now the reason that $100000000.00 yeah yeah $60000000.00 went to consultants $60000000.00 what $62000000.00 i believe it is went to consultants to come in and tell them look at

the district give them exotic i tell them what should happen the thing is you know i mean it's a little horrifying to me about that about that figure was supposedly this money was being give me given because they knew what to do because they had it all figured out because they had a plan of action so you have to spend $60000000.00 now to have other people come in and tell you what. exactly they also had to spend about 30 something $1000000.02 pay past teachers' contracts so teachers have been working without a contract because the district was saying we have no money like what was seen as we get some money though you know we're going to. live up to our obligations so big chunk of money went to that the rest of it went to expand charter schools. which call those all manner of issues in the district where the majority of kids don't attend charter schools. how it was drawing money from traditional public schools how kids were supposed to get to school there were all kinds of parents who were

like you want my child you're not providing transportation here you want my child i want my child to attend this charter school they have to cross over literal gang territory is kids pass through 2 different hostile kinds of territory to get there and you're saying that this is a good thing and no i can't just pick up and move closer to the schools so what is supposed to happen the consultants that they paid the $60000000.00 to apparently didn't tell them to stick with i mean just let me ask you 1st. there is a huge attempt to an assault against public education there's a charter school in princeton which no one wants and who's at the charter school well no one who needs english as a 2nd language no one with learning disabilities the only quote unquote minorities are asian. the black and latino those are negligible and as a presence they're all left because they're more expensive to educate in you know

at the public school and you're draining money into the charter schools and this is replicated there's also that whole militarization of education you know they put them in uniforms and then there's the whole vocational aspect but before we get into the motive of the people who push it and often profit from it wire charter schools so. permission this in terms of educating young boys and girls well the reason. the issues with them have to do with these experimental take. practices that they often engage in however the reason that they tend to come about i remember when the princeton charter schools open is a bunch of princeton professors who did not think the public schools where highly ranked public schools in princeton were doing good in the teaching math and science

to their kids so they were looking at how their kids were coming home like oh we should be able to do much better let's start our own school with no kind of background in education of this or that note that they'd start as a blue ribbon school 11 awards they took very highly educated kids and had smaller classrooms more more rigorous curriculum and so the test scores went up which that's how you determine if if people are doing well in charter school but in general what happens is given that tax dollars fund the majority of public education in in our communities in their thousands i get the number now there's less of it was like 17000 public school districts. across the country in the majority of that money is coming from property tax what people pay to live in those communities. what you have are community and then text dollars

follow the child so if they go to a public charter school the money whatever it is 'd in princeton when i was there is about $20000.00 in trenton which is not not far down the road is like $7000.00 per child whatever the amount is pretrial follows the child to the charter school what that means is if you have 10 kids who are taking their $20000.00 from point a to point b. you quickly start coming up with. a budget gap with a shortfall in a district that head had $200000.00 more. the season before all of a sudden is plugging holes is trying to figure out well where would a way to have to take that from 4 districts that are poor already they don't have a big tech space that don't have property only interest in 90 percent of the

property is rental property there's not of the tax base there to support the public schools what you end up is a hole that gets bigger and deeper and wider so you end up having to increase class sizes for the kids who are left behind you have to cut college counselors you have to cut social workers cut our classes cut p. cut dancin in richmond you have to cut what people consider the fluff rate because we have to of course you know keep teaching math and keep teaching science so it's not it's not value neutral money goes from point a to point b. and nice billionaires who really could if they were of a mind to if they wanted to take their money and say we want to experiment we want charter schools we want this experiment but we're going to actually pay for students who want to go we will reimburse the district while we're doing our experiment over here and the things that are successful then maybe we can talk

about having them work but no the money is almost like trump's wallet is going to mexico is going to going to pay for the wall but money for this is coming from the traditional public schools and weakening them while enriching a small group of kids you know i mean i think it's the last thing i saw was about 15 percent of kids in the country all over the country atin. target schools of some sort that is 85 percent god shouldn't we at least at some point be focusing on where that 85 percent are going but you have betsy divorce. secretary of education and huge proponent of charter schools and i just want to because it's in the book we know statistically that these schools in fact. they may an individual ready do not majority to not raise test scores and then this whole online which is a very lucrative business you know putting kids in front of

a screen as if that's going to somehow replicate that a classroom experience you write about a gora cyber charter school you know the 60 percent of the students were behind the grade level in math this is from a new york times report 50 percent trailed in reading a 3rd did not graduate on time hundreds of children from kindergarten to seniors with true within months after they enrolled by wall street standards the recording but again from this new york times story by wall street standards the adorers a remarkable success that has helped enrich k. 12 inc a publicly traded company that manages the school and the entire enterprise is paid for by the taxpayers right so it's lucrative in terms of its ability to generate profit but a disaster generally across their education is now we have the data in and yet. it's accelerated let's not let arnie duncan off the hook here. under the obama

administration obama also pushed this for the same kinds of reasons and on from clinton on i mean a really it was from reagan on so reagan just sort of cracked open the door was william bennett. his his secretary of education who was big into privatization big into let's let business let's it industry let's have business practices really get in here and fix some of what we see is waste and waste it like why do people need to spend all this time well these are the things and we have businesses saying we need workers and we need workers trained in certain kinds of ways in their training overwhelmingly as in math and sciences so let's just kind of refocus on that let me take that point because they're not actually training them in math and science the way princeton trains them their training them in numerical literacy to work and low wage jobs this is about cementing into place a class project that has people of color a couch yeah it's

a caste system the level is one of the ways it's easier easiest thing to see you often hear him poor communities or in schools or you know we need more to we're being left behind technologically. we honestly the way that cyber to cation has gained such a foothold in urban and rural poor communities educate kids is the companies that run them give the families broadband access some high percentage of black and let next kid families actually use the internet i mean the their phones to access the internet they don't have broadband access so they say well you can't do some of this you know date of data intensive kind of learning on your phone so we'll give all everyone in the family will have access to broadband and a laptop so the whole fam. become literate when you end up maybe learn some coding so it's that it's like let's just give you access and let's teach you how to code

neither in upper middle class in wealthy or in silicon valley are coding is not a profession coding is a set of skills that outsourced at this point it's not something it's not like engineering it's not something you go to school to do except for these kids from what you wrote in about the virtual schools students rarely even hear or see their teachers at some cyber charter school students need only to sign into the school website and or communicate with a teacher once every 3 days to prove they're actually attending in wisconsin a state legislative unit found that 16 percent of the virtual teachers surveyed had contact with individual students as little as 3 times a month other schools in the state outsource duties such as paper grading to contractors in india making it difficult for the teachers to meaningful explain to students the basis of the grades they received while virtual education is

a growth industry in wisconsin it is important to note that the state has the largest achievement gap between black and white students in the country and ranks last in reading comprehension test among black 4th graders and yet this is an expanding industry great excellence just recently some places have started to bring online virtual preschools what what what you imagine a preschool. to be that the child used to be that they started in kindergarten so now the expansion is quoting even further where your kid is sitting in front of a computer to learn whatever color to learn with no real checks and balances no creativity no play. that that starting earlier and earlier creating. in this kind of divide then there's a whole industry that has sprung up to tell you you need to pay them to close it

looks so you get these educational gaps of course you do if you have some kids who are looking learning expression creativity and having people notice one of the things i know when my son went to private school we were in prison but we put him in private school in point. and we had teachers coming to us and saying things like do you know he's an oral learner so if you show he's not a visual learner that's really hard for you show it to him for some reason he doesn't get it is fast the 1st time he needs to hear it and if he hears it 3 times then he gets it and we had teachers who who were able to tailor how he learned you know to how he would best learn this was not some extra this was an add on this is just what they say you know at the private school thought that the kids they were teaching need it why would we have that well why would you not have you know want more kids reading right now because you know reading

a can write this so of course now all these people in silicon valley they can go to these send their kids to these schools i would stop this and instead wreck you that was cornell professor no leeway ropes about a book cutting school privatization segregation and the end of come with. anyone else seemed wrong. i don't really just don't hold. it you get to see power just think you can get educated and it gets really equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

has changed american lives the pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. based drugs the people who are chronic pain patients believe that their opioid prescription is working for them on the remedy be sent to the price at the. close of dependency in the direction to opiates the long term use that really isn't scientifically justified and i'll study actually suggest that. the long term effects might not just be the absence of benefit but actually that they might because they want to. allow cluster primary democrats and their media friends to decide on joe biden as their party nominee which is the left of will that aggressive. what he's just offering voters in will be

d m c experience buyer's remorse november. this is the one business show you can't afford to miss and fairmont to fail in washington coming up oil continues to dominate headlines on wall street but earnings reports may be giving even more bad news any businesses are eager to reopen but we'll explain what that means for math testing workers thank you not only for both lag and says it's ready to pay up for. we have a packed show for you today thought let's go and dive right in.