culture and the world being of the british people and how we can fix it plus does the child of u.k. civil rights leader office cargo hold the key to a cuban future for our national health service all the some more coming up in today's going underground but 1st european mainstream media has downplayed alleged corruption in the removal of the leader of western europe's largest socialist movement not that it stopped jeremy corbyn in parliament continuing to ask questions about coronavirus that while his new leaders against ahmed threatens call to action against anyone publishing a leaked 850 page anti semitism document suggesting his allies conspired to lose a u.k. general election i want to pay tribute very briefly to all those health workers care workers delivery workers street cleaners cleaners and so many other groups all over the country that doing such an incredible job together with all of volunteers to deal with this crisis i think it's an amazing moment in this country's history however parliament's job is to hold the government to account and the question one of us is quite simply this the world health organization indicated that there was

a danger of an epidemic from corona in january they that later declared it to be a condom the director general of the world health organization said in terms the way of dealing with it is test test test in order to ascertain the levels of infection across our society we didn't do that no we didn't do that here in britain but then jeremy corbyn today arguably represents the polar opposite of his success as a guest star that alone boris johnson in a new book by the b.b.c. is stuart macone explains the korban tradition the author of the nanny state made me a story of britain and how to save it joins me now via skype stuart welcome to going underground all the talk here is a free internet we need to have a new respect for the shop workers for refuse collectors for n.h.s. people your new book begins with a story about the public sector on the post office tower in. i'm going with tony

benn who i should say that is last to have a television interview don't forget even before this program just to recount the beginning of this book well and that's good to know the you got a last interview from him a great great now i don't usually yeah we were yeah it's sort of the siege of the book reading the book begins with i was doing a t.v. interview with tony bennett and we would united talk of the what many people still think of as the post office tyrion and london g.p.o. chapter in bloomsbury and them. the p.r. guy for british telecom n o n listen to our kind of chit chat before we began internee came over and said hey guys just just want change you can call it the g.p.u. chair of the time it's the bt tower it's the british telecom terrorism in the g.p.o. quite some times if you could remember to say now and tony benn fixed him with this when they're in gaze said. i commissioned this tower i was involved in

the in the building of this terrible planning stage it was commissioned by the government it was built and designed by engineers not checked of the state and it was paid for by the british taxpayer those people down there and he pointed at the window and said and he was paid for by those people and margaret thatcher's stole it from them and it wasn't hers to take and it isn't yours and it's a new and you know i'll call it when i'm like really on the guard has slid away defeated and i thought and since then coming these and use have been percolating through my head it eventually has become this book well today in 2020 amidst a pandemic we have a successor he would think to margaret thatcher certainly one of his heroines boris johnson and he's never been more popular according to the polls during this pandemic i should say to our viewers this book is not negative about this country despite as you suggest there what happened after that you know the 79 tell me about

how much this book is infused with a love of britain. yeah no it's not a it's not a nancy british book at all i prefer to think of myself as billy bragg calls it is a progressive patriot but there is a difference between being a patriot and agreeing we want to tap into this country for the last 40 years maybe even half century which i considered to be essentially and fundamentally unpatriotic i think that's a revolution of $79.00 and it was a revolution in 79 with the revolutions in some way they had a massive revolution in iran and we had a massive revolution here in this country that we didn't recognize it as such i think it was a fundamentally anti patriotic anti british revolution because it said there is no such thing as society in the common bonds of humanity between us are not really as important as profit and he said that individuals often don't paint yogic individuals who do not pay their taxes and who live off shore and huge stash their assets offshore it handed the country and its wealth to them rather than the

british people so quite the opposite to be known to british folk in this book connects with a fundamental british patriotism about what made this country great and any one of these images country great was a section of the welfare state in 1945 by the most progressive government country's ever seen so no i do not get quite the opposite i consider the people who inhabit the boardrooms of this company and the offshore companies i consider those to be the real unpatriotic town ok well some phil says the refuge the last refuge of the scoundrel i've got to tell you the book title is this phrase the nanny state and that is a that is a term used when it comes to the public sector obviously not being used at the moment during the pandemic where we rely so much on the public sector who are dying to save us you think that the nanny state the word itself covers room in the sense people who had nannies that's that's that's very much i mean it's a joke in

a way but it's i think a. the joke with some serious intent i do say the people who complain about in many states are the people who have not eat it is an extraordinary thing that we take this on board i mean we we are seen no i mean we're in so much what is the function of a state if not to provide for the well being of citizens i mean and for too long we neglected that in time in thought the state should be some kind of other not existing it's all or should be by just facilitating the protection of private property property and them and the smooth transition of money from one bank account to another usually to rich people's back and i want to reclaim this word that people have never had a nominee in the lives of taken to using and say no let's not what you know the not and stayed the well for us that's a phone call it is kind of love made institutional and we have seen not that when

the crunch of when we are when we face a really serious serious national and international crises the people who we put our faith in the people we look out not. reasons of the borgia they have been the 1st people to bleat and to give up that in fact as we see every day it's the n.h.s. from work it is delivery drivers it is refuse collectors it is all these people the people who've been cleaning let these people pretty patel says our own skilled workers well now we see that they are fundamental and i wonder if it's too romantic an optimistic that will see some fundamental realignment and rethinking of our society but i do think we will change i do think you're not going to hear quite the rally pretty patel dismissing people who make less than 25000 pounds on skilled i do not think you will see quite the same relish in the attacks on state institutions and i certainly don't think you'll see any day soon conservative

politicians applauding themselves in the house of commons for refusing nurses a pay rise. that would not be a very good look at all i think in the coming months and years i want to get on to some of the things you show that we have lost as a country since 979 but the story politicians of course disproportionately were educated there why is it so important because certainly jeremy corbin the outgoing labor leader didn't want to abolish into why is it as obvious but as the manifesto said anywhere the election why should we abolish eton. it is the fundamental. schism in british society i think. it is both emblematic of everything that's wrong with this country so if you just concede is a purely symbolic act getting rid of those places where people will be useful but i also think you cannot ignore the day to day practical repercussions of that the fact that. in a country where a black 6 percent of people 6 between 6 and 7 percent of people we think are

privately educated they comprise a majority of high court judges the majority of officers in the british army the majority of journalists across the board so even in the liberal papers regard the journalists are privately educated the b.b.c. when john humphrys left the b.b.c. today programme many people applauded because they thought he was an old rightwing kerman that's maybe the case but he certainly his leaving left that program less democratic because not every single radio 4 use presenter is privately educated a 1st step any government should say if we want to see. you know how to fairer society is absolutely overnight abolished it will be skills i cannot it seems to me so self-evident and yet to say to people think you some a hugely ridiculously communistic thing to say it seems like we british love play this play pleasure declare an interest that i was a i was wrong umphrey's producer at the at the b.b.c.

do you think then that because of all of that we have a tribute saying all. all of the history that you so romantic really talk about in the book by people like. the people that are doing the press coverage is about coronavirus because their patriotism is very different to that in this book you know i don't i don't judge i don't want to you know demean or join in but if the person insulting i don't doubt it sometimes they think they are doing what they think is the best in the circumstances but preservation at all costs of this system as it stands preservation at all costs of an elite of an establishment of of of inequality is what they are about it having said that i do think it's interesting i think johnson's an interesting case in point he's certainly not an idealogue i thought you i mean he may well be i mean some people suggest he's simply a game plays in this self aggrandizement and a bit of fun he certainly is not an idealogue the fact she was and i think that's why we've seen already this. really soon x.

. enterprise in endeavors and suggestions have been warmly welcomed and seem very conservative because they're not like the conservatism we've been used to for 50 years or so but it's interesting in order to get them public on board he's got to embrace very public spirited principles the kind of principles they don't appear in the senate for the welfare state i do not think the page does mean is my pictures and no i don't think genuinely they really want every british citizen to have everybody's interest that they have that of the few and it is their own class and it is their own people that said i do not want i want to jump about my going to be tata zammit my criticism they are faced with unprecedented problems and they are handling them probably as well as they can in some respects maybe economically although we see every day that we the people we see every day that seems to be complete lack of forward planning and lack of community thinking as well well the

riches are that of course the chancellor caver goldman sachs and a lot of the big. were throngs of cabinet are associated with supporting privatization of the national health service has been a struggle about a previous exercise why do you think they've been able to turn a sixpence so easily and suddenly say they love the n.h.s. that they obviously were so much a part of a privatizing it before this pandemic struck well i think one of the reasons for that seeming vault fanous has been the one of the engine things about these crises as you say about boris johnson was hospitalized one of the crises is it has been indiscriminate in your attacks i mean it's wrong to beat pain is being felt discriminately as always in these cases the brunt of the pain has been felt by the poorest the most vulnerable that is that's what all the time but this has in terms of its contagion. affected everyone we have we were all as likely to suffer as anyone else and i think it's been the sheer that ubiquity of it and the fact that

middle class people and rich business people will be affected by has made them realize that they have to step up to the place i think of the coronavirus it only affected some poor people who they couldn't see you know in the cities because you hadn't grown felder you in that context what exactly i mean i write about it in the in the chapter on housing in my book i write a program for and said that as a simple many quality you kind of get more point and similarly calls for the rich few miles on earth you had graham fell but i think it's been the fact that i don't like graeme felt this contagion if you like has in fact you as the potential to affect everyone i think has meant that. this government has had to be seen to be doing some good because and i say if it had been another graham or something even less public than graham i think it could have been swept under the carpet but this no but this is hitting a lot of people like richard branson in the bank balance and i think so i think even the conservative party to us and some of their friends might not come to this on scale you know i maybe this is why they've got this new found generosity and

community spirit soon i'll stop you there were over you're going to. this short break. the u.s. economy was booming growing numbers of people were made homeless. you can work 40 hours 'd in a week and still not have enough to get housing everybody believes america still is the land of opportunity the reality of it is we're not financially equality and the lack of affordable housing for a living minimum wage gave many people new choice you know that's been a problem with the city always turn to make sure and told me stay away i know mr colton sums up the food that there is no answer because the answer requires at least the most vulnerable or abandoned on the streets to become the invisible comes .

welcome back i'm still here with the stuart people are watching may have been lucky enough to see the site of tens of thousands of cuban doctors pictures of them helping different countries around the world during this pandemic despite the fact that arguably mainstream media in this country has not been showing those pictures boris johnson used to taught jeremy corbyn about cuba and its ally venezuela what why why did you think you were is so important as regards a country like britain because in the book you talk about relations with the relatives of author scargill one of the architects of arguably one of the biggest flashpoints of international near liberalism in british history his connection to cuba and health well yes in the book i was very keen to do this i should say that i didn't do not know enough of banks to be able to say i would not want to seem to be a cheerleader for the cuban system overall but on one thing. i've got things right

is that health care system and i knew virus friend of mine the actress maxine peake . after scandals daughter margaret. with her husband jim actually mine manager had set up a cuban style health practice in bonds and i was intrigued by this and went to go i knew nothing about the cuban healthcare system except that many people said it was apparent and i was brilliant and they have set up they said submission in the middle ninety's tony blair's government came along to try and emulate it because didn't do it properly. because what they have set of cuban health care system is a system whereby there is a health home you go in there and you send documents i feel you know if your little money use writing. never know when they need specially selected pop goes the hall and see him also if you transpires that when you don't really want to happen if you're feeling depressed then there is someone you can help you know mentally healthy she's the idea is that it's a one stop shop it's 24 hours and again i'm not a medical i'm not

a healthcare professional i'm not a medical sociologist but it do seem to me the. cuban system of health care as we are seen from the fact in many docs is coming is something we can very definitely learn from because the cuban system stands in stark contrast to our national health service in a sense which isn't truly universal in fact talk about how the british medical association tried to destroy any open national health service what we were going through other elements of this book why the importance of buses you see this is so crucial i mean libraries british rail the buses i think of the whole the bush is one that just does is show again emblematic and symptomatic of the wrongheaded thinking of 50 years in this country or 40 years at least. everywhere in britain in everyone remember him except one place the boss is a prime time back in the days when the conservatives are drunk on power looking for want to privatized next i mean. whatever you think about privatisation i think

there are you know there are certain things i say in the book i do not want the state to make my clothes i don't want to state to make my point music i don't want to state to make my career that's fine i'm happy to leave that to small business people and entrepreneurs but i do not want. i do not want the private world private sphere to be controlling my prisons my water supply or my transport and i think everyone going to be some of those conservative privatizations i think maybe some conservatives themselves would agree not that some of them were insane and would run for pure ideological grounds what coming coming flog off next buses no one in britain wants to privatized this it was system that worked perfectly well and what you got immediately afterwards was a cowboy system whereby health and safety went out the window if you go into mansion i'm down to oxford road the most polluting transport corridor probably anywhere in the world you get now get places that have no job because it doesn't make any profit sense it does not make any fiscal sense to do you know i just it's

emblematic of the insanity of wholesale privatisation and of course what's the one place in britain that didn't do its london where the buses are still controlled by the council and where they are still cheap what do you what more proof can you need in the name of the people who made the decision the people who made the decision to privatized transposes and said oh no he because we like it the way we know that this way works so you put saps can have the stupid system we're going to foist on you but we'll we'll have it this way thanks well during the pandemic disproportionate numbers obviously a bus driver isn't rats whatsoever actually dying on the was a bright light without b.p.a. we're not sure what is going to happen with that another element maybe of trying to understand the pandemic and the response to it because as i say birth johnson is popular as a prime minister you have literally you stop short of blaming. ignorance within society on the closure of libraries after the bailout of the banks in 2008 you

almost say to keep people ignorant you even mention dolly parton who's been on this show talking about her literacy project what was behind do you think it was actually that conspiratorial the 1st thing to go in this country after the bailout of the big banks with libraries in this country. well 2 things i'm on it if you don't economists program on it to be sharing a virtual space we've got because i mean she's a terrific human being. i mean would i be so conspiratorial to suggest that they would deliberately closing down avenues of knowledge probably not in so many words that doesn't sound rather tinfoil hat wearing but i do think the prioritization is interesting though. to me the mark of a civilized society is that it would close the library last. if in fact they were so quickly dispense with is part of that same way of thinking though when david camp david cameron described attacks on the b.b.c. as delicious what we do not any time soon i don't think are any of his illustrious

successes but i do think that it was it speaks of a certain cast of mind to say well the 1st thing that goes we don't need a books for those traps account for them you know because what you can go by a book can't you know because traditionally libraries the public library system has been such a vital knowledge of network for working class people in this country and i do think if it wasn't it well i don't think i bond villains they 12 the mustaches and struck cats instead and now we will get to the libraries and consign them to ignorance forever but it do you think they need what you are working class people got knowledge on not for free and i do think they were handy in easy things to close down because i think on a very tribal level libraries like public transport like all kinds of public utilities are anathema to a certain right wing cast of mind of course one of your great expertise is is a music tell me about how one of britain's greatest exports of music and still

percentage points on g.d.p. is state music and how we should reinstitute the dough for 16 year olds well it's getting at some of the points i make in my book a kind of it's a personal polemic it's intended to be maple neck she's intended to be provocative meant 10 and it's not. white paper. now but i didn't reach something to be sent for the fire that i speak in the book some of my friends musicians my job is car current richard hartley who spend long periods of time on the dot com superman to benefit honing the craft and as richard says in the book and as jeremy del of the art he said it was a degree to which the relatively benign unemployment system of e.s.p.n. was a kind of alternative kinds of you know and these were alternative schools because these are places where you could i mean certainly don't was not the right wing press blogs the people who live in the lap of luxury in the dock you want but you didn't have enough money coming in to you know sustain you while you write some

songs going about together and. you know from the disappearance to the stone roses from johnny vision to function and on woods on till we had recalibrations gone in recent years were. privately educated people take control of pop music but after many many this straight sets of projects just produced these musicians and they often honed their craft on the dole and as richard hawley points out in the book is however much money i took in the dough on the dough i have paid now $10.00 times over in my taxes and so in some ways just physically you make sense as well as creatively the north south divide of course in the music of the accepting the clash or the other jam with that era maybe what about the north south divide where they came to media you talk about is another regular an opera bill do you talk about granada t.v. you talk about different types of media used to exist before london because

the dictator as it were media was of the country although arguably has changed a little since the b.b.c. moved to manchester well i think that in the mood for me to succeed b.b.c. sending i mean it is no it's not it's not cured everything but i think it has shifted the center of gravity slightly north which is no bad thing because you mentioned a great you know. which was the work of sonny sidney bernstein who was a capitalist but he was as i say in the book the book is not an anti capitalist or a by any stretch the imagination but he eats against a certain way of thinking and a certain way of thinking shared by governments of left and right that it helps to have 40 years and i do think things have changed certain for the better but you still don't get many people with my accent on the radio for needs you still don't get it you don't get it and that's why i think that class cuts through all the other differences in british society that we've got a lot of in recent years and when we take great strides i think to increase our diversity representation in all manner in all manner of spheres about sexuality about ethnicity by gender class is the great unspoken to be less think cuts through

and i think to simply have. differently privately educated presenters of different ethnicities is really progress but i think things are getting better but in some ways things are very much tense and there are just going to ask finally about income loads of people in this country in european countries suffering greatly financially from the coronavirus pandemic over here we have 640000000000 pounds were given in quantitative easing to the city of london and then really complicated benefit strange 80 percent furloughs where their family businesses i don't know there could even be a bit of fraud who knows it all of this you in the book however say things could be much more easy is here in this country with some kind of baseline income to stop people starving to death and should say there is a cause there are of course well nourished people in this country i thought just

last week i mean i thought just in the end maybe 2 weeks ago when the when the sudden shock of what was happening to us i think finally came home and began to get little government briefings and then. i thought oh we trembly on the verge of our idea of universal basic income i still think it's somewhat in the back of our thinking because clearly this is an idea whose time has come trump is and the next day well i mean you could argue that we are having a kind of universal basic right not a maybe maybe we'll think rethink about it afterwards but it would seem to be an idea again that is not particularly politically not to keep party savvy just to be commonsensical. but again some people on the right think that the very idea of giving people money for nothing is a seat it will somehow sap our moral fiber etc to all that garbage that they always talk but. no it would seem to me to be very eminently sense but i doubt he's times come and these being tried all over the world nixon richard nixon thought about implementing it but no communist richard nixon of course he thought of

a committee and it seems to me to be eminently common sense to start saying now has a certain amount of money that you can have that will to a certain extent have all the benefits folded into it and 8 gives people the right to talk about freedom of choice the right to talk about individual liberty as it is the sacrosanct thing well what could be more individual here's your money do with it what you will bill and when it's gone it's gone you can do what you want with it right now but it is a safety net to stop people starving encourage entrepreneurial isn't that's something you're interested in i think it's eminently sent i have yet to see any properly sensible critique of it so i think it's an idea whose time is coming soon we're going to thank you and that's of the show will be back on wednesday the out of us 3 of the us switching sides to support margaret thatcher you know war for the readers for good islands where a british soldier is belief doesn't confirm the writ of iris goes on the south atlantic archipelago until then give it as well as a media wash your hands of the forget join the army go into south that instagram

and facebook. yes they do most of their sort in the. book or birth. mother which is what she said that's. going to do it. you're definitely walking into the words all in all we no longer know what we're walking in till. march you know what she needs to break she what about that. not. that he is. who she is possible. so.

welcoming viewers from around the world live from central london this is also u.k. . to repeat. i believe we have. to beat. the 1st phase of this conflict. prime minister boris johnson warns against easing long restrictions too early and pleads with the public to be patient as he returns to westminster following his own battle with corona virus. the government says it won't know if the daily target of 100000 test will be met supplied the thursday deadline the capacity stands or just toss a figure where the actual number test much lower i'll be joined by a genetics expert surely. governments are just furloughed workers take 2nd jobs

picking fruit as clothes fit labor shortages will leave jews are not seen in the fields. at least state surveillance is a price worth paying to get over the timing so says that it's pretty plain institute for global change its purpose economy has raised concerns. the pandemic worsens the financial pressure on millions of renters with many struggling to find enough cash to pay for essential. prime minister boris johnson is back to his own personal battle with corona virus saying it's too early to risk lifting the lockdown and calling on the public to be patient as the government attempts to distance itself from the l. secretary's promise of 100000 daily test by thursday he joins me now for the

latest so is the promises but but still no information on lifting the lockdown. now absolutely barres jones giving his 1st speech outside downing street since his recovery from that covert night scene which in his case got very serious and he was a pilot couse in about condition in intensive care he has now covered pretty much fully and he's back to work and in his press conference he stressed the importance of continuing the lockdown measures and i did hint on the pressures that have been put on him and the government to lift some of those now he also spoke and thanked the country for keeping with those measures he said it helped the n.h.s. to cope but also know he also acknowledged that the government of whatever the pressure this is putting on businesses and the economy now mr johnson claimed that according to him the country is coming to the end of the 1st phase in the fight

against corona virus and described his own experiences of it as saying that this virus the way the hays weight acts as a kitten add to that of. these viruses where a physical assailant an unexpected and visible monkey. which i can tell you propose we experience it it's. then this is the moment when we have begun together to wrestle it to the floor. and take photos that this is the moment of opportunity this is the my but when we compress home our advantage. it is also the moment of maximum race. because i know there will be many people looking at our current success and beginning to wonder whether not always the time to go easy on those social distancing measures. now with regards to those social

distancing measures or many questions as to what steps can be taken to lift the lockdown now one suggested idea by some government sources is that businesses would be allowed as long as they keep to those social distancing measures we've seen in supermarkets you know to me to choose and so on and so forth not all of this comes as we've got the 1st of the day the death shake as in now these figures are only full into scotland and wales but they indicate a significant drop in the daily death numbers $350.00 according to dollars these are not the department of health statistics and it just england numbers and government figures will be hoping if this does represent a better trend then it could lead to them being able to lift some of those locked out measures that would suggest the country might tentatively be over that 1st page now we've seen over the weekend the number of people going out enjoying the good

weather we saw in the u.k. but that led to fears that some people will get happy beyond the allowed reasons for going out it was still outing lockdown measures and whereas you can go out to the park to exercise or you can go through a war peaking at twice food that perhaps people were doing a little bit more than that and that was hanging out with friends and pots and so one leading in some cases to police having to drake up gatherings but the prime minister during his speech also stressing and pleading with the country to hang on just a little bit longer and observe those lockdown measures i refuse to throw away all the effort and the sacrifice of the british people and to risk a 2nd major outbreak and huge loss of life and the overwhelming of any chance. and i ask you to contain your impatience because i believe we have

coming now to the end of the 1st phase of this conflict and in spite of all the suffering we have soon nearly succeeded. out north of the border we've already seen the scottish government saying that they have that exit plan are betting that it's a plan that's going to start making a status say she's going to reveal law information about what options the scottish government are considering with regard to lock down and how they will assess lows all of this coming as a bit of a rout about the government's special advisor dominic cummings not even taking part in the special advisory group for imagine sees sage meetings and it's unclear whether he was just as an observer and taking information away to update the prime minister as government sources suggest or whether he was putting his own input into things which is something that in his capacity he's not supposed to interfere with that politically with those meetings and sort of critics saying that mr cummins

perhaps overstepping in that the bounds of his position. and he's the government running back from the promise of 100000 daily tests. yes absolutely we've seen that with regards to testing this is going one of the criticisms at some ports of help towards the government now that we know that the government has set targets for themselves in the past these targets amount to reaching 100000 tests a day now while the environment secretary george eustice released the latest figures for testing in the press briefing yesterday just under 30000 were tested on saturday that are significantly below the $100000.00 tests a day the government had set for themselves $700000.00 only have been tested in total with $150000.00 testing positive for the virus now that $700000.00 in context

generally do just a little bit under that every single week at number 10 say they don't know when they will reach that target further research suggests that the government's at the currently testing around 53000 people a day again around half of their own target which they'd set for themselves to be met by id and of april so will they meet that targets will they miss it remains to be seen but the government promising they are doing everything they can to round those up he said thank you very much indeed for that update well to discuss all of this further i'm not joined by a consultant in genetic pathology dr he and framing in very good of you to join us today it's all very well for the promise to talk about reducing the infection and deaths before easing lock down restrictions book without putting any numbers on it there's a sense that it's just a storing tactic at the moment. well it's the classic one about if you

come measure it you can't manage it and i think they're in the stage of saying we're getting to the phase where we need to manage things like x. y. will say it but they haven't yet got all the mechanism in place to precisely measure what's going on in the u.k. population and talk here measuring why do they have an ambition of 100000 tests a day one of the health secretary pick that number. well you'd have to ask him it sounds a bit like a round number. i mean it maybe it's 92000 maybe it's 41000 maybe it's 105 i don't know but. you could say it should be sufficient to the purpose of course the whole point and to gen testing is to track those who have it and that should normally be at the beginning of an outbreak not now that we've actually supposedly reached that peak well there is yeah there is that argument i

mean germany in korea certainly took the to toot. there is also the the. now emerged evidence of that people are very infectious before symptoms become apparent and therefore this is in. perhaps in large part why covert 19 has run away in the population so quickly because it's been spreading before people rare lies they are spreading it and what about elements within the population why are we seeing that black and ethnic minorities seem to be more vulnerable to this well that's hugely complicated it's a bit like analyzing. an aircraft crash people jump to all sorts of conclusions about oh it's the pilot's fault oh it's the navigators fall or something like that and. for sure there will be an element of socio economic effects there will be an element of wearing or not wearing p.p.m. what sort of p.p.a.

but i my personal view is that a very important component which must not be forgotten is that all human populations vary in their susceptibility to different diseases and evolution is designed all of us to be. one way or the other inclined so northern europeans of a pale skin because they need to make vitamin d. in winter to survive in summer sorry to survive another winter if you live near the tropics all the equator you need a dark skin to stop yourself getting melanoma so we all vary in how we react to disease and this may be telling us something absolutely critical about the biology of coded 19th what we really need are those antibody test that we can actually test that actually work and when antibodies do give us the immunity required that is the game changer shortly and it seems of that's not really in reach of plan that that's been very problematic and there are all sorts of arguments about exactly what

antibodies are you picking up and what are the antibodies to which component of the virus do those antibodies then actually protect people from getting infected again it all depends on what you want the test to achieve do you want. antibody tests to tell you if somebody is immune or do you simply want to use it to tell you if somebody has had it. now in terms of tracking it through the population you want to simply know whether somebody has had it if you want to give somebody a piece of paper saying this person is relatively safe because nobody's absolutely cite from anything. from being an infectious sort of person or catching it again then you need a more specific test and exactly what people want in other words what what the author of teams want out of a test has been to some extent not that well defined perhaps a now they're coming to some sort of conclusion and what is worrying is that if you

had it we're now not too sure whether we might actually get to the again when we have immunity for ya karen tarnal no need to toll what do you make of that speculation well. when when it whenever you do a test of any sort you can get what are known as false negatives so the test comes up as not showing something but when the person actually has something and then a false positive as it shows the person has something when they don't now. if you have an antibody test that is a false negative. that means that perhaps they can't go out well that's a kind of a failsafe but if it's a false positive that it suggests they are immune when they are not immune that could potentially be dangerous but you have to realize that if the test was 99 percent specific it would be letting $909.00 people out who are perfectly safe and

one person who might catch the virus well compared to the huge numbers of other people out there who are completely susceptible to it that might not matter a big deal but i'm ok forces in thought and where are we now please because obviously we did have a remarkable drop in. because over the weekend and in today in england at least they are encouraging we are careful not to restrictions could lead to a 2nd peak where are we with this now well that's part of the problem i mean that it's been reported over and over that the figures on mondays are always lower because registers of not been open over the weekend and they're. not not there for counting so that you kind of catch up on tuesday wednesday when that is when there's more cases that have been reported because this is not the actual number of people dying on a day it's the number of cases reported on a day and i just heard on the news at lunch time that different health boards in

wiles' are reporting this in a different way so 'd there's going to be a big reckoning at the end so all these numbers that come out are a measure of what's going on they can't possibly be the measure and of course then you've got the ask the issue of everyone dying in care for example. and to get a handle on that we're going to have to look in the end the difference between the number of people who died that we would have expected for this time of year compared to the number who actually have and that will be the excess mortality and to my mind that is the figure i can't thank you very much dr the ends of training thank you for all of that and good of you to spend time. 6. british workers currently furloughed to see the help break could find 2nd jobs picking the nation's fruit and vegetables this summer as according to the environment secretary who says the number of laborers coming to work from abroad

was a much lower than needed. we're about to start the british season in fresh produce in soft and salads we estimate that probably only about a 3rd of the migrant labor that would normally come to the u.k. is here and was probably here before lock down and we are working with industry to identify an approach that will encourage those millions of furloughed workers in some cases to consider taking a 2nd job helping get the harvest in june it's not a an issue at the moment since the harvest has barely begun but we do anticipate there will be a need to help recruit staff for those sectors in the month of june over $3000000.00 britons have been furloughed on reduce pay since the crisis began with a further 1400000 applying for universal credit when a farmers are worried that their crops will be left to rot and go to waste if they

don't get more help during the harvest this month grose defended chartering a flight for $150.00 romanian workers arguing they were skilled laborers who returned to the same farms each season. of farmers rely on a workforce of around $60000.00 to help with the harvest each year despite the industry's efforts to encourage more british base pickers nearly 9 in every 10 workers have to be recruited from abroad i'm mostly from eastern europe long unsociable hours make it difficult to attract britons at times of almost full employment at least before the crisis the job is physically demanding with those doing the job often living far away from the farms while the level of pay off and the minimum wage also makes other interests trees more attractive. let's have a look at the latest figures from the home nations and as we await the official government announcement individual reports from england scotland wales tally to 350

more deaths in the past 24 hours now that brings the u.k. wide death toll to over 21000 and britain will observe a minute silence at 11 am on shoes day morning to honor key workers killed by drone a virus scottish 1st minister nicola sturgeon has unveiled a range of courses to help people to learn new skills amid the pandemic and the public health authority or the public health agency launches a contact tracing pilot program in northern ireland in a bid to prevent a 2nd wave and let's have a look know how the pandemic is affecting the rest of the world as you can see there according to johns hopkins university collates worldwide data almost 3000000 cases have been confirmed globally over 200000 deaths and over 875000 recoveries. still to come this hour a leading british he says increasing stakes of the price of work to get over the

pedal. printers are forced to choose between the rent for food bills has locked up threatens incomes across the country. green collapsed global energy markets are in disarray over production low demand and lack of storage has witnessed some prices going to negative territory this is not just because of the pandemic this is the result of just subsidies policy the energy market may never recover. as the u.s. economy was booming growing numbers of people were made homeless. you can work 40

hours 'd in a week and still not have enough to get housing everybody believes america still is the land of opportunity the reality of it is we're not financially equality and the lack of affordable housing for a living minimum wage gave many people no choice. just been a problem with the city knows turn a return call the stay way out almost. concerted effort is no answer because the requires resources the most vulnerable are abandoned on the streets to become the invisible comes. increase in state civilians as a price worth paying you bring this to come through the coronavirus crisis according to a leading think tank the tony blair institute for global change set up by the

former british prime minister argues that it's the least worst option available the price of this escape route is an unprecedented increase in digital surveillance in normal times the degree of monitoring and state intervention we are talking about here would be out of the question in liberal democracies but these are not normal times and the alternatives are even more unpalatable institution says an official contact tracing at an immunity certificate in order to help lift the lockdown and allow people to return to work it also says that previously focused options and a transparent approach should be adopted as well as real time cross referencing data from health care systems and private companies and there should be sharing of unnormalized patient data in the search for treatments and vaccines the national health service is already testing a new contact tracing it could help to keep the virus under control the app is designed to let people know if they have been in close contact with someone who has

the virus may well france germany and other countries and else that its app would store data on a central server but privacy activists say the public must be able to trust their data is secure and essential there are many roads for the u.k. government to choose in lifting the lockdown and determining technologies role within a collaborative previous c preserving model would be best for preserving the trust and competence of the british public. so should the government increase digital surveillance to ease the lockdown or not to debate this i'll be joined in the next hour by a lawyer and also by a former n.h.s. nurse. millions of renters are facing a financial crisis as the pandemic forces many to fall behind on rent payment but in andrea's takes a look at those forced to choose between buying food and paying for a roof over their heads as the u.k. continues its lock down the financial implications are affecting millions one in 6

other people some extra financial help to stay afloat with some even made to choose between buying food and paying rent. well i'm a singer and at the moment there is no gigs there's no wetsuit so everything's closed and then no work i. work. in the morning up. over. everything and we're not going there are 4500000 households live in private rented accommodation of which 60 percent have suffered financially because of the coronavirus lock down although landlords are blocks from a victim to have its for 3 months millions are concerned that after the 12 week hiatus there will be a huge surge in a fiction when the current restrictions are lifted. well some tenants have negotiated rent holidays max levy in essex has chosen to pay his with

a small amount of savings but he's now left with little money for anything else and has resorted to finding food from his own garden and local boards. so our exercise walks will go through local are a ways to go down to the local park local words people working overtime and just eyes are open i know you area quite well so i know where different transcriber going basis a she's a leak rich or really delicious dandelions hope great and loads of parts and even in the garden at the back of our gardens a little bit i'm kept the stinging nettles there harvest them to 3 times a week magnetic syrup so yeah it's a you can do a lot just with the wages around here of course it shouldn't have to come to that there is help out that if you know where to turn even before this crisis we were hearing from people who were having to make those decisions people had instant payday loans just to feed decades so we were to knew that the safety net the social

security net that people depended on just didn't exist so it's a get help there is support out there get in touch with step change for example a step change of all there is help out there we can not put them in the right direction any benefits that you might be entitled to you might be touched universal credit might be types of hardship funds so don't suffer in silence you speak up now and get the support that you might meet. but getting help isn't always easy and takes time of a woman you have applied for universal credit but with us payments weeks away many simply don't have the cash to pay for groceries right now with debts one option and loans the other for many who are struggling the end of this lockdown cannot come fast enough mustard andris off the u.k. . and that's it for them to have more news in.

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hello and welcome the cross-talk where all things. or considered i'm peter lavelle crude collapse of global energy markets are in disarray over production low demand and lots of storage has witnessed some prices go into negative territory and this is not just because of the pandemic this is the result of disastrous policies the energy market may never recover. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest dmitri bobbitt in moscow he's a political analyst and editor of me media project and glenn beason in oslo he's

a professor at the university of southeastern norway as well as author of russia's geo economic strategy for a greater eurasia originally across the uk rules in effect that means you can jump any time you want and i was appreciated let's go to oslo 1st glenn we have this pandemic ongoing and we have been in crisis in the energy markets and it's easy to conflate the 2 and one in the energy situations in the markets has gotten worse as a result of this pandemic but they are very separate things and i would say right off the bat that this is the result of disastrous policies particularly by the united states using a series of tax breaks sanctions and really just unprincipled market behavior to try to support american energy companies and it's all blown up in their face in a pandemic has made it even worse and i don't think there's any really any real road back i mean this is some of the most worse was poorly thought out policies i

can imagine and people and average working people are going to pay for it go ahead learn. it well i agree with that assessment because. this has been very much all shared all of the u.s. media for quite some time and indeed it has been very spectacular that it's going to stay too it's taken from a huge energy importer to become. i'm a big exporter. trump celebrated american to gained its energy independence which high priority however this was achieved on many things was not just the shale take a knowledge of the us was also able to a large extent to replace the energy or oil coming out of iran and venezuela by sanctioning them and replacing it furthermore since the russians and the saudis been trying to stabilize prices by cutting production in the us especially been able to move and failed to demand so it is been able to increase. fuel this social

revolution on many aspects but one i would also. keep in mind that america's oil companies have been running up huge debts. especially since the global financial crisis in 2008 they've been enjoying almost 0 percent interest rates and the problem with 0 percent interest rates is super much lending away money for free and in such you have a lot of male investments that is syrup making investments where they shouldn't be made and i sense a lot of consulting companies are able to continue to operate so a lot of this a lot of observers of the shale industry been waiting for some time now to see you know when this house of cards might collapse or what is the pin that will pop.