hello and welcome the crosstalk where all things are considered on peter lavelle 75 years ago the scourge of bashes them was defeated in europe the soviet union and its western allies were big taurus what is the meaning of that victory today what explains recent efforts to rewrite history and what it counts for the efforts to diminish the sacrifice made by the peoples of the soviet union.

this and more i'm joined by my guest underneath me good on ya and he's a professor at moscow state institute of international relations and in ottawa we crossed him paul robinson he is a professor of history at the university of ottawa and author of numerous books and russian and history original macross up rules in effect that means you can jump i mean what i was. involved in a lot of well obviously this pandemic here is cancel the press their bodies in russia on the 70 good banner verse 3 of the end of the 2nd world war in europe and the end of. an hour but the spirit here is still very much alive and how is that spirit changed in your mind because i think it's fair to say that the big 3 in 1045 reenergize the legitimacy of communist rule in the soviet union and that in that maintained that was maintained that it was me all the way when it's taken out

and i think even more important residents in post soviet russia in 202070 years back and i would attribute it was protecting russia from a very hostile and sure you want world and certainly the kind of world we're living in right now. it's certainly true that there's been a very strong revival of memories of the 2nd decade or so i think it's close and such as the origin of the much of this row people carry the pictures of their ancestors a. thing about 10 years ago maybe even less and it's a much an indication of. a circle almost bottom up. it's not very often it's described. commentators as being pushed down from the regime it's not it's not that it's not say the regime has not

could insult the head of this. is not exploiting it and using it but it is but it's not an original. russian equal to whom is not so strong resonance you know underneath i think it would poles point about the immortal regiments a very important here because. actually it's only been like 3 or 4 years it's much less than 10 and working in r.t.e. the number of my russian friends that send me pictures of their grandparents that were in the 2nd world war and asking if i could get it into a promotion or a film or a documentary that we may be making in our teahouse i think that's really remarkable paul point is really very important because it really is a groundswell and i still think attribute that to a hostile world but at the same time it's a very interesting way to keep families together when we live in a time of majority were families are countless pressure on breaking them up all the

time so it's a very interesting mechanism to look back at your family lineage in let's face it russian history in the last 100 years is been trying more to us say the least but that's one thing that they hang onto are their families go ahead under a new. yeah i think that the problem that we're stuck on every family had terrible losses during world war and 2nd you know not the derision was the victorious and that's why the warrior never was considered to be a pack jilted or. going back to you know the world with natalee under which means this most kind of. the problem of survival of the nation survival of a country my father was. you know one of the participants in 9 import you are on your last right here near where i am living now in prague and so

you are. going to go there what i did you. for every family it feel has a very significant meaning because it is not just a memory it is something which would just recently touch on it when we can still touch participants all of this is story of events which was of course in one interaction history which was full of manage your are wars of turmoil and different kind of thing this was the biggest this was. really its heart all of the forget if you are so ignored it is something very very important that white and another problem is might be and i agree when you are with your i think you know you mentioned that we are living in

a very specific situation a bit more than soviet union collapsed. and then you're not there was a reassessment are all historical events rash i was very awake in the ninety's and you know there is a saying famous saying i don't know where i read that that history is the modern day politics india or apply to the events in the past which means today a political situation is changing some countries becoming stronger some tragedy a week earlier and this event black lived at a time based on current politics. doria 1st will the winner who is dollar under there are another there was even questioning there are all of soviet union after 9 days and especially when our liberals also all year now

put down there to question our victory. our sacrifice and. nature are underage and put you know of discomfort a sense that they're not degenerate monahan soviet union and stalin and hitler both did create that america and now unfortunately it tanked to get out of this mess again with you know paul i mean i'm glad that was brought up here because that is a function of the idea neo liberal ideology today is to conflate nazi germany in the soviet union ok and i would attribute much of that to is that and very simple words as a russian it doesn't bend the knee to the washington consensus and because of that in other reasons they will deny the historical significance and meaning of victory over bashes them in europe for what the russian people primarily but the other peoples of the soviet union contributed to it's an ideological thing and it's them

they're the ones that are being an ideological not russia russia's respecting historical facts have. it's certainly true. that there's a lot of little elements in arms moves this year in the way history and the stories he gets it reflect the current political desirous i don't think is just neo liberals or the seniors that suit complained so that union nazi germany coming . royal saying is a little action in the u.s. just in terms of historical studies it dates back to. writing. this story but it's also people like timothy snyder who has various blogs who is very much a union i'm not suggesting that he is not more alas the. right if it's generally a desire to. 7 sensibly keep fighting the cold war and it is related to

geopolitics and to so groups are typically like diaspora groups who are interested in. an intimate part but that if the result is the same it seems to deny the peoples of the i say my words very carefully the peoples of the soviet union the sacrifice they me it's people like snyder that wants to make it political and ideological i don't see that in 2020 in her how the war is commemorated here i see a wide variety of issues the one thing that is missing is ideology and i think people like snyder and i think he's a shyster lawyer historian personally because i think what he does is a historical and he wants to just driving a political point but you go yeah i mean. i think it is far more political

among those other people but it would be among russians. who are after all you know brits. more and the myth of the wars is just as large and grim really siddhis as in russia. but there are definitely people who are using as the who curse as we saw this it in prague our risk taking down all monuments it is a soviet marshal who grip the city center nicobar and one in the city the rush of the british nothing which is the collaboration of general. downie well there is a vigil was so you might even look up the glass up on you and why are you doing out we are doing now as a russian. it's a troll rush it is not mean it's already mistreated start the wine appear like there's parents who explained that gen is real quickly ok so i think it's a general communist threat who was the muscle in charge at the front which

he was replaced by. needing replaced by a cited replaced by a monument see gen when r.t. gen last of the russian liberation army which was the army formed by the germans from russia lost their collaborator current regime nasser so it took the soviet my mum elaborate. very serious star reasoning for this in that the russians the collaborationists russian army. the very last sentence sort of sides with us not german troops and our rights or the claim can historically be made a. lot that's not a sleight of hand here and when i find really interesting. and the leak is it the whole cold war narrative about this is that the ending of the 2nd world war

actually whitewash is a lot of the very well and nasty right wing fascist groups in eastern europe because after 140 votes they're just ok but that is the intentional way of turning away from the internal politics of all of these countries that have had parties even. governments and that is a whitewash right there and then they they turn it on to russia where has no historical basis and are under any go ahead before we go to the break or you're not definitive that this is a very important point the problem here is that unfortunately it many european nations and they were part of it were coalition against soviet union and. instead of feeling to guilt for participating in that great bottles are not wrong side of history now they are trying to put the

blame on soviet union and now on russia that the course should be a union of guilt and responsibility for it all the great all of the war that's what they are trying to deprive. and who you know deprive russia of from their legitimate right. victory in europe 75 years on stay with r.t. . because the report never fails to deliver the goods and we've been saying now for a few years. ultimately they're going to $100.00 trillion dollars japan's already dollar percent debt to g.d.p. on their fed's balance sheet kuroda their central banker has already taken their central bank about 100 percent of g.d.p.

in terms of debt that's buying a lot of junk. so america 6789 trillion dollars they've got another 60 trillion to go the globe is set to go to 100 percent g.d.p. debt to the balance sheets of the central bank.

welcome back across town where all things considered i'm hearing about remind you we're discussing the end of the 2nd world war in europe. ok let's go back to cohen arwa it's very interesting i've noticed you know on the edges here there's this an intentional process to delete the legitimize the soviet victory in the 2nd war i'm a car i'm a conservative i don't like communism i lived in eastern europe during communist in the 1980 s. my my ideological degree is conservative because i'm not the right conservative because i'm so in 1945 b. the only elbow you had to what would become 2 great rivals it wasn't necessarily

true at the time shaking up the hands so if we speed up to the last few years i think all of you in many of our viewers know the world at war series that i think came out in 1971 in the u.k. and it's in my mind it's one of the greatest documentaries series ever made about the 2nd world war and if you look at you too slowly but surely there deleting and wiping away those episodes are still here and there but there seems to be consistent effort to persistent effort to even take away documentaries i mean it can see it was made in the early seventy's that documentary could never be made in 2020 because of the international situation here why is that the case because history is supposed to be history right go ahead paul history is not just history history it's a subjective interpretations and so on. as a freshman historian i endeavor to be objective but of course i company into. no no

no nobody is going it is inevitable. be it so it's aisha's it gives us a sense what will of the currents international climate. i think in part because the easy sexual animosity has become so important in russia because the russian government has. to do it right if it follows that if you want to do to devise the russian government you have to deal with it myself. i mean it is all ok if you don't you know you are this is not article the next step you have politically but in the process your view diligent in mining the the genuine interest and aspirations of the average russian in the average russian family in their relationship to the past so i mean it is you're

right there is i think it is regarded as i think the view of being very much. a distorted view that. that may. sound that so you. do not it was a very good well june 2nd world war i mean. after all. delicious i mean you know if i were to say it's when. i did so it is a very nasty face i mean this is. massive. so i think that there is there is some concern which is not entirely legitimate that sub racial grow in. so what washes the i mean i mean i saw this a while washing going on on both sides here i mean if you want to go down that path been you know why was president bombed ok the dropping of the atomic weapons on japan i mean you know we could go on and on and that's called what about what about

is ok but i don't think it gets us really anywhere. underneath one of the things in with this touched on just this for a 2nd we touched on it is really it's not really about the outcome of the 2nd world war it's really the origins of the 2nd world war about invoking the decider character here and sighing oh you have the that the nazi soviet pact display $939.00 that's their exhibit a all of the time and they don't like to mention that just about every country in europe in eastern europe oh and in $130.00 or have not aggression nazi germany that's not brought up because it's inconvenient ok oh it's inconvenient it was western powers that broke the state of czechoslovakia in unix ok all of these things are never mentioned ok they just look at the protocols are the protocols dastardly over you they are because the international system had collapsed and it was a rock it was everyone was grabbing for what they could poland during the partition

of czech was about due to their pound of flesh from late for the failed state of czech was like it which the western powers turned into what my point is you know if you really want to go into the nitty gritty we can go into the nitty gritty but i would like to see the meaning of the 2nd world war as a unifying these people because they're ideologically possessed want to use it is the debates of things and i think that's tragic because a lot of people die. i think that in russia women are a lot of know both coming out of concern and the beginning of the 2nd world war and many of them reasonable in mentioning the alternative is where the turbulent times and a lot of it never since the end of 1st world war never related to the war ended which means let's try to put forward the idea of

prevention and this 3 venue of the bishop for a gentleman's policy and the policy of many other countries italian ibish india then italian german or against republic and. then your mention and then partition czechoslovakia in one polish participation in this process all this year again there are the who are. then jump on a china all these are you know nada length of that chain of events which eventually brought so there is great war when nazi germany invaded saw it union which mince it is oversimplification. you know just to mention all of the ribbon drop box under the result partition

is done here or part or they started europe or wall taken power back this is very shallow and our right a position does one thing i want to mention as i started this. really because nobody. interested in historical facts because politics is the basic. basics for an assessment of what happened how it happened what are the consequences of all this invented the problem is in mind this rash of was a very weak or a turn off country and not our ashes regaining is this position over one of the major actors in the world politics exactly this is what in the

west and in washington and in european capitals. they don't like to see they look don't like and they don't want to accept rather than equal power as the continue their of soviet union as the country or as the victor is a country and who has very you know. russia has something important to say and this is the rational position and russia's might one of 2 or 2 real shouldn't contras in the world what they like this current russia's position and russia policy. you know in the poll one of the things i'm glad we kind of went to the origin fear and i think it human started out and i mean if you look at international relations theory and we've already heard a mentioned you know and i think that's really i think a lot of people say that the the beginning of the the short 20th century year that

ended in 1901 in the end of the soviet union but it was it was a failed international system and i when i get really angers me is because the soviet union was a communist state and it was a pariah state was treated as a pariah state for almost the entire time in the interwar period until the war started and entirely is that it was. in international system based on. western countries ok it was a failed one the 1st side settlement was rowsley inadequate and i think most people most historians would say obviously it was the seeds for the 2nd woman world war you can even go further it was really a 20 year world war and the end of the into war here it was just a power a cost when if you look at it from an international relations theory perspective here it kind of takes all of the ideology out because again if we want to go back

to the to the nazi soviet cock of. august 18th 39 these are 2 states that are looking for their best advantage it has nothing really much to do with ideology but i mean you have these these. fake historians who are saying it's all about ideology it's bears but actually they're probing and peddling their own ideological pedigree . while i think it's true that wasn't actually really much of an international system and war period bigger previous concert a power switch and existed. in collapse under new system that had not yet in korea and yet your program uses who needed nations that is not my successful and of course you know one major power. versus not understandable reasons and that is are all contacts now as a single and then if you go. ah we see much more stable international system

was constructed but it was started by including. an octet along with the united states all that. wish to me it is indeed not the house itself most ace united states so union i don't know how it was you know rules of the system i wasn't and it is a new hungary it's but the. reason 99 percent of the time it made. they start basic rules created and others are nothing to them so that all things are nothing to. nothing is indicative of why it's useful to our security systems are not just curious this is economic systems the uses of which which are really close. as it was is a. problem we have it goes to europe is institutional. dating from the parrot and the next ok so they don't bring in russia. pretty much.

losing their race on that i'll say bloggers are unable to have a veto brigade major. so i mean to finish on this you know i think the party got as they need to find a way are all looking back and saying things like. where to go when we have includes a certain role in china divide might you say. even if it doesn't desperately well and creates a lot of difficulties it's still there and not at all we ended room on an excellent note i want to thank my guests in moscow and in our way we want to thank our viewers for watching us here as you see you next time remember.

all that sugar has created excess body fat in the majority of people worldwide and that impairs immunity and therefore makes us more vulnerable to infection and during this period when we're more isolated in our all. we. want to eat more sugar that's really the worst thing people can do to janet's

coming in this is clearly is is just very clear that it's those that her. symptoms of over 5 today how co-morbidities it's those individuals that are coming into the hospitals it's those individuals that are simply leaving. and it's ultimately because they have all of this regulation it's possible that there were medical health. max kaiser this is the kaiser report and this is central bank monetary policy yeah get it take it takes down.

placing. more money they might call it it is so much money m o a r money more money and you know it max now some people say all that money printing is going to cause inflation and i devalues everybody else's currency but they're offering us a bargain here u.s. treasury expects to borrow $2.00 trillion a net marketable debt in april to june quarter $3.00 trillion dollars more than estimated in february to put not trillion dollars come on down to the fed's bargain basement to put in dollars order now and get 6 trillion dollars more in 6 months or do now give 6 trillion dollar war in 6 months come on down to the fed broader base with j.p.l. are pretty.