a sex offender who was not even put to justice or put on the registry this is simply an hour in violence male sexual predators for the large part of target whoever is there to prey upon whether that's a man or one. time after a time say we're going underground on victory day when russia commemorates the 26000000 soviet citizens sacrificed to win european freedom and victory against the nazis 75 years ago coming up on the show can freedom be one again in europe this time after the so-called war on coronavirus has britain's death toll becomes the worst in your of we ask a former world economic forum director whether in nato why do you cannot make a depression well catalyze revolution and there's western governments shake

billions from the magic money tree to tackle coronavirus we ask tribune publisher and jacobin founding editor because the current mass working class mobilization could make elites finally see an apology as the world's deadliest pandemic all support coming up in today's going underground but 1st billions around the world today commemorates and celebrate 75 years since the soviet union saved them from the grip of the nazis after the red army liberated berlin but with the u.k. death toll now the worst in europe could we see a revolution everywhere to rival russia's 1917 revolution joining me now via skype from zurich is the chairman of think tank or racist dr frank you're going to richter thanks so much for coming on as i say 75 years since victory in your approach some estimates have it say the japanese own financial times of 50000 may have been killed here in britain just before i get on to other or wide ranging analyses of coronavirus your take on the british response to coronavirus. well i

think the a merc response came in a little bit late saw yuki is one of the most hit countries in europe if not a lot and there might be a devastating 2nd wait for of course it's happening we have to wait until the us senate is ready to fight and you need another 12 or 18 months you'll finally get all worked arguably that was because in part britain was more concerned about bracks it than coronavirus what did you make of the use apparent 1st response or just to punish italy to actually find them for breaking state aid rules just because they were trying to save the lives of their population well 1st of all about. i should say that we are facing a double whammy in u.k. presage and call it it's a very unhealthy alliance and i think the extension backs it that

this inevitable i'm on call it and you keep asking should agree to that believe in order to avoid possible not you'll press it but i expect that term of course the main concern is well also in continental europe how to deal with scrum 2 is was it by the crisis like italy spain an increase in ice in which to shore solidarity to support each other stronger nations in the last germany is going to new york holland supporting basalts in the west or in the east so we should think about being finally occur on arm front or even curled up once as far as i know boris johnson continues to say and his whole team there will be no extension to break scepter deadline date do you think though that it has been the legacy of the 28 bank bailouts that is impacting europe's response to coronavirus obviously europe the worst hit the continent as regards coronavirus. well we eldon

a lot from 2 laws and 8 and how to handle the crisis in the us not the white way and the right to find those countries and putting up borders again it's definitely lights in the corner is present all doesn't know any borders and the whole building chinese walls around the continent is totally misleading or are it's really a chance for bible of the book you're not going to face a disintegration of the union i think will come out of it even stronger at the end it will even medical advisor saying walls need to go up in fairness you said uncontrolled capitalism has left europe afraid and forgotten do you think there are dangers of social unrest because of coronavirus you know robert what you call the crisis globalization has left a great portion of british and other western society impoverished an uncontrolled

form of atlas and favoring the richest few has increasingly diminished the middle class and a deep seated resentment of globalization is spoiled or what will quite a great portion of this he perceives themselves to be globalization losers and social welfare systems it's not this global as it. already there are voices here in britain talking of post pandemic austerity do you think austerity policies could push your p.r.b. in countries maybe britain direction lucian's on the level of france and 789 and russian i.v. 17 and john are in the if you vote in a well already lost you're proud to call it french you know west voters as the industries of parrots and you've seen similar protests in the u.k. and around the globe the middle class wants to benefit from economic rewards just as elites do now didn't see that france rice or our space on this. resentment

it was mostly elected by globalization losers and finally yes i think we might face another revolution and maybe something similar to the the french revolution and the russians what do you think it will look like because presumably the rich some of whom may be watching this program feel they can lock themselves away in ivory towers they can use private. infrastructure whether it be water or basic amenities and ignore the massive. well a lot of rich london are so flat corcoran are virus and all sitting in their nice kartel and mentions summer in norse whereas we have unrest in. poorer cities and poor regions in the u.k. and across europe and the corner why is this really highlighting you case starkly white boy meant the look of health care and threats the social safety nets to call it if you will outreach you see the british government attacked the un special

rapporteur when he was saying things like you are saying there about the political decisions that were made after 28 as regards austerity and don't you think that a media here run by oligarchy can hide some of this from the general public or at least from the policy makers and decision makers so we don't fully understand the world the way you see it well in he has a very important role to play here and sing about knowledge spending now trillions of europe's pounds and dollars where should the money come from and icing event b. is indeed austerity but austerity it all group is talking we have to revise or commies we have to help to corrupt parts of society him and. maybe facing even the class warfare in u.k. europe and america in america i guess europe minorities are dying at twice the rate

of their white pews but it's really a longing. well perhaps there is some realisation of what you're talking about as regards class warfare because elites in nato countries. are very aware perhaps of this instability and they are blaming of britain secret services for infant blaming sabotage of health care services here from russia from china from iran who knows venezuela cuba and as you know donald trump sees coronavirus as a direct attack on par with pearl harbor and 911 from the people's republic of china. well yeah he's making this comparison but. our it's and i think it's a wrong thing to do it stole it different and i don't believe the virus comes from a lap one it's definitely not a good time to pick another fight is china so the us will definitely amplify the

current economic downturn by terrorists to punish punish china for its rule in the else crisis think about not the great depression of 20 in 29 at the time most countries are very protectionist accelerating russian salaried in crisis in the same scene might happen again yeah but i'll give lee with 645000000000 pounds of quantitative easing here live governments at the same time as they may be blaming china are pouring money into firms that are committed to globalization supporting your viewpoint and if it doesn't work surely natural they should blame bad actors russia china iran you know it's so easy to believe they're so playing it's very much a 1000000000 mindset at the end but it won't really help the us at the end of the day and seeing us. response to cruel of us rude missile you know all of us is

built superpower and it was not really able to contain. the barretts belief that the current or cola crisis something like a swiss moment for america do you think the media as i say is being successful vo in hiding that level of the crisis we noticed here that there were harley street clinics offering coronavirus tests for the rich in santa pay apparently billionaires have been getting tests at the expense of the hinterland there or in the south of france is the nature of the class war ahead i don't think you know that the media is controlled in western society but the human media especially bytes in the western media landscape it so nobody is following the leading your voice and everybody's seeing the same so it could be that it did end up that the media it's missing the point and not quoting of what is coming rouge and the coming hours or about you drinking off the u.k.

economy i think we'll see a cheapie lots of media minus 1520 percent this year which this incredible and that's what it means for the trucks. but this way it's going to be comparable to the great depression or well the bank of england 48 hours or so indicating at 25 percent down in g.d.p. if g.d.p. is indeed a good indicator for quarter 2 you are arguably a good barometer of what policymakers and politicians are thinking about your company does these presumably zoo meetings now with the top ministers what do you make of your successor at the world economic forum arguably marc benioff chair of the tech company sales force saying capitalism as we know it is dead there longer can we maximize profits in a way that only fosters climate emergency is this the new future and the policymakers recognise it or will it be back to ideas of maximizing profits of obsessions with debt to g.d.p.

ratios at the expense of the majority. well we definitely need certain all countries the private sector and civil society to cooperate and capitalism in the old way this stuff we have to rescind capitalism and how economies broke and for whom potentially for them you want bretton woods down south on them for the entire global economy or for green cross and ukraine deal something european union actually announce approach when you call up writers and you should look at it right now the money in your is corrupt as an apple is an anglo-saxon style of capitalism expect us to reposition capitalism with the. social dimension of capitalism dr frank you're going brecker thank you. after the break is it too late to save what was the west of europe's largest socialist movement has essential workers continue to die without protective equipment in the face of an arguably ineffective

post-hole been labor leader tribune publisher and jacobin founding editor because of kwara if there's any hope for the so-called party of the british working class all the more going to going on the ground. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. welcome back this slide coronavirus catalyzed government stimulus seemingly winning the economic argument for socialism across major nations socialist movements in the u.s. and the u.k. are experiencing that worst defeat for years so do those looking to create

a world free from the ideology of neo liberalism need a new model of resistance and organization joining me now via skype from new york is jacobin founding editor and tribune publisher bus because of cholera whose new book the socialist manifesto the case for radical politics in an era of extreme inequality is out now basco welcome to going underground so tell me about this socialist manifesto book as it's come out and it's out now just as the dull compulsion of economic relations as you quote for marks in the book seems to have ended as government intervene overcovered 19 well yes i think we're seeing a return of the state or one of the things that i try to express in the book is that even without state policies might change at certain point so might be more laissez faire it might be more stay. interventionist and other points fundamentally the system is still based on a division between those who work and who have to work for others and those who

were owned don't have the same compulsion of course they are compelled in themselves by the market so what i was trying to do with the book was to discuss what's relevant and also question perhaps what's not relevant in the classical socialist vision and to look seriously at the history of past attempts to bring about a better world a world that truly represents not old spared in the enlightenment liberty equality and fraternity yeah it's internationalist it's local it's full of opium ism obviously was written before the pandemic cholera arguably affected paris in in the 19th century ahead of the 848 revolution 118 spanish flu catalyzed. apparently apartheid in south africa how can cope with 19 affect things in a positive way well i think at the very least it's shattering

a lot of the illusions that neoliberal lucia's of the past few decades so we were always told that there is not enough money it's impossible these are these big complex economic and social problems and the state can't play a role in fixing the politics in other words democratic politics can't play a role fixing them but now we're just seeing that when it's needed to prop up the stability of the system to prevent a deeper crisis the government can in fact aggressively intervene so we need to think about is this slow moving crisis the slow crisis of poverty and of hunger and of declining living standards and wages and of bankruptcy is and people getting in over their head in consumer debt and household debts in credit card. that just to maintain a semblance of a middle class standard of living so if the acute crisis of coronavirus can be responded to with this intense state effort why can't the slow moving crisis to

respond to in the same way and i think the real reason is because we're yet to be organized together as a class of working people to demand that our every day problems are responded to as an emergency and that's going to take us creating a crisis of sorts for our rulers because you write fairly quickly about the tragedy the defacto martyrdom of rosa luxemburg do you think it's still relevant today when you talk about how she said gradual changes compares it to the myth of sis offis the gradual change is not ultimately going to get any one anyway. i think that the secret of social democracy and more radical forms of socialism in the 20th century is that in fact radical radical change can get us somewhere and in a way it's breaking down this to conduct me between reform and revolution as rosa

luxemburg put it because in other words today the barriers to reform are so great that the elites. capitalists who own own things going tro so much of our societies will resist even minor improvements of change so viciously that you know it's hard to draw quick that condom in the united states we still have one 6th of our qana me run by the private insurance industry you know these are people who have a lot at stake and even something minor like medicare for all of but if you have that part of the economy in the hands of private industry and any you have you know thousands of people making millions and billions of dollars off of this then obviously they're going to resist it tooth and nail so i think we need to say that our immediate demands are demands that we would call social democratic demands that demands to expand the welfare state your people a little bit more security

a little bit more dignity a little bit more respect and their day to day lives and society but in order to accomplish even these moderate goals we'll need to think about industrial militancy and how we can alter. a road the power of capital over our lives and i think right now the really important thing to remember is that the ideas of the political left are deals that have historically been associated with political left for more justice and more security and for deleterious measures like in the u.s. medicare for all and jobs guarantee and all these other programs now have the joy. ready support i'll get to elections in a 2nd you know we have a think tank it called the i e a and jump on this program talking about his film the dirty war in the n.h.s. showed up privatization all of the national health service was one of the things he i.e.

a little bit about it reviewed your book and said it's desperate to excuse the failure of attempts to create socialism in the u.s.s.r. and china what they did to me is you yeah i think it's ridiculous you know i'm a democratic socialist democratic socialist were among the 1st victims of some of these systems but the key is to put this into some sort of historical context that's how we should really understand things otherwise it just becomes more of a mountain heritage that china there was incredibly developed then perhaps he wouldn't have attempted crash agricultural collectivization if he inherited a country there was a ravaged by japanese invasion and european imperialism before then you know maybe he would be in a different condition you know we operate in conditions of not entirely our own making and you know obviously it's a shame that those on the right will always use any attempts of complexity or nuance or any you know look at the experiences that people had and with with the

stain when in fact there's a reason why there's you know millions of pensioners in east germany today they yearn for the german democratic republic of the seventy's and eighty's and it's not because they love authoritarianism are these are bad people it's because they're seeing social chaos they're seeing cuts to their their welfare they're seeing what feels to them like an annexation by by forces beyond their control and they didn't really have much of the same so i think we need to speak to the complexity of the communist experience while still criticizing the very gross and very obvious abuses of. human rights and individual freedoms and so on these systems as a publisher of tribune and and jack and jacobin and what do you think that is behind the criticisms that your friend tickly trying to protect your worldview and i should say it's not from the right mainly it's from the liberal left the

criticisms tend to go well i think people on the liberal left like to paint and very broad stroke all forms of redistribution i said alex thank you so bernie sanders for instance and the democratic primary was attacked for saying the most minor things about cuba bernie sanders merely said that you know cuba has managed to do a good job improving the literacy in the country and for that he risk considered on the left the ball he was attacked and whatnot or even basic things like in the 1980s you know saying nice things about the sandinista fighters fighting for for their freedom fighting against dictatorship fighting against right wing contra death squads you know this is controversial and the discourse in the united states still so i think what you often have is this. this is

a very fragile defensiveness when anyone mentions anything i'm comfortable so for me bernie sanders send some mild points of phrase about aspects that you can system is way less disqualifying than joe biden supported the invasion of iraq that killed a 1000000 people but obviously mainstream media the united states is never going to make those sorts of criticism and you saw the same thing in the u.k. or germany carbons tireless efforts for peace and places like iraq and for peace in places like libya for peace and palestine this was turned into some sort of radical islamists from a secular socialist much less you know and same thing of her support for the irish cause so i think this is something that we need to look seriously at which is the bipartisan had a common sense on foreign policy even if some of these people might in name only at

least be against austerity and join us in certain struggles i think we need articulate clearly i left policy that's built on self-determination respect for people's rights to live without imperial interference i want to ask about the destruction of cool but in a 2nd but you mentioned bernie sanders donald trump seemed a bit disturbed by the idea that that is was conceding to biden just briefly tell me he's not gone from the ballot when he signed his people will be able to vote for him people will be able to vote for him in some states not all states there's about provisions that the local state parties have erected in some place in the senate if your campaign is suspended or no longer active campaigning you can be removed from the ballot we're kind of battling to prevent that from happening right now in new york state yes i certainly if i'm able to i'm a new york resident so if i'm able to i will certainly vote. from bernie sanders i hope everyone does

a very nice to but also thirdly it's how he holkins who i should say is mean on this show the green candidate gets your vote this november yes i'm in new york i would definitely vote for howie hawkins how is someone that i have known for many years on this group with the many issues but he's a working stir he's someone who understands concerns of working people i think his voice is very important to get out there and i think it's ridiculous the ways in which liberals try to prevent these expressions of i've discontent and try and sort of trying to win over potential howie hawkins voters instead of nominating a candidate or having that candidates speak to the anger and ammunition the people who might vote for hawkins are feeling which are certainly you know are net some votes instead it becomes a disqualifying things that we don't know who's going to win in november over here though we know that's a kiss tama is in charge of the british labor party he's put his place people in the shadow cabinet your reaction to the news not only that it turns out so-called

israeli lobbyists have been paying his stomach but also the fact that he hasn't suspended members implicated in the secret labor reports that we as a program any journalist is threatened from revealing to the public about what exactly was going on for jeremy corbin to be smeared and sabotaged as so that he didn't become prime minister well it's very clear within the labor party to be opposition to german corgan would have rather had to worry room and all the damage and devastation that that meant then to have a member of the labor left someone committed to regulate or part a says on paper. the labor party believes that gemma carbon actually believed that that was a sin we should not be confused by all these attacks and every part of been the reason why they don't like germany corbin is because he tried to enact the labor

party's program well that's where the labor party's always said it stood for but in fact in reality you know we know the truth about the labor party and government so i think the labor party is still a terrain in which if you're in the u.k. i think you should be a part of the labor party you should struggle to build up the progressive wing of the labor party to fight against centrist vacillations and to fight against a labor right it doesn't belong to business interests it doesn't belong to these professional politicians the labor party by definition the u.k. labor party belongs to those and the u.k. you're out there working class but yes so far the response to the report has been absolutely. you know it's been devastating the lack of response given how how callous and how vindictive some of the racial abuse that was that was released as part of that report and also the revelations about attempts to undermine german

carbon journal campaign to defend in a chest campaign against austerity i campaign for the future of britain for building a few british creature for working people and of course you know all the internationals aspects the labor party these are all under bind and of course corben was was blamed for the whole defeat and there are lessons of this is don't let the kooky loony left yet in power again and we need to push back against all this inclusions just as a car thank you thanks. and that's it for the show will be back on monday when one of the world's top risk literally explains how you should interpret what the ruling classes tell you about how to live your lives during a global pandemic so your response is fortunate so the chances of you until then wash your hands and join the on the ground with you through facebook twitter sites but hundreds.

of thousands of american men and women choose to serve in the country's military and the decision. every song came to a complete. the day that i was right to be instructed. you know told to shut up what they kill me and i see how it destroyed my life any screamed at me and he made me come in and he grabbed my arm and he write me with his birth. if you take into account that women don't report because of the extreme retaliation and it's probably somewhere near about half a 1000000 women have now been sexually assaulted in the u.s. military rape is a very very traumatizing tat happen but i've never seen trauma like i've seen from women who are veterans who have suffered military sexual trauma reporting rape is

more likely to get the victim punished than the offender and almost 10 year career or chose very invested in and i gave a sex offender who was not even put to justice or put on the registry this is simply an hour in violence male sexual predators for the large part of target whoever is there to prey upon whether that's a man or woman. be a bust tail of those people as you can see beyond the 1st place in us unique. rules suddenly as days ago i was a potential solution of wishing to go through. templates a secure strained deal and i mean to be a small movie opens i'm sure it. will show just mind that doesn't leave the statue

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