you are if you are present one day when would you say it's time to sort it ease up down my preference would be if we could to ease up on the lockdown after 2 or 3 more months if we really start to well if we embrace the need to continue to not see. nixon large groups the way we had become accustomed to in so many years not to do as much travel around the world as we had done in prior years we know this is going to help this fundamental epidemiology there is no huge mystery but this would help as we continue to grapple with the problem so the issue is in others if we're to be as patient as i seem to be willing to be this patient and the answer is clearly no and that's why this is an issue is how quickly can we go forward as well as how brutally can we wake. so delhi a share earlier said no reason to believe that polemic will come to

a close in summer but russia has authorities places they're staying at the barracks because there are patches at air temperature over 30 degrees celsius. what's your you do support that you will hot summer days may call it larry king live it's great because my view based on the evidence that i've seen is that we would probably be fortunate this summer and any places experiencing warmer climates we're going to be benefited by this probably with reduced transmission and it's important i answered with a probably because of course we don't know what we are dealing with a new problem however i have to say based on the evidence of i've seen the experts who i've heard from the literature and i've read is that we should benefit from this so the idea of moving forward in opening reopening prudently with the expectation that we're going to get the benefit of reduced transmission i think is a real possibility and that would be my hope is that we navigate properly are you are are those who say that yeah we will probably get it at the end of the summer

but come autumn and start that shares drop we are going to be great for a 2nd wave out to agree with that or we could actually not be having this cooling i agree with that because we don't know yet how much of the benefit of herd immunity is going to kick in and i know you discussed that earlier in your show with experts so if we do benefit from herd immunity helping to reduce the end cut off the chains of transmission so that people have never seen the virus or won't be as likely to be infected by it because these chains of transmission will be broken then in that case we would benefit from the herd immunity keeping in around the time that we would expect a cold time seasonality it's also be problematic so i try to be an optimist but i also believe the data and i read as many of the papers as i can and i'm cautiously optimistic i really get some benefits from herd immunity that really gets benefits from the summertime seasonality reduce transmission before the inevitable return in

the colder months. so then you heard of hours shares learned 6 percent of the cina to a backer virus discovered in china in 2032 and this cyrus was considerable low risk and not really thought back then that it could mutate translate to humans causing pool demick like these you study the ways viruses and that to evolve so tell me is are you no way at all to predict how bad is cool mutate i think there are ways to predict how a virus could mutate there are ways to predict how it can evolve and it seems like an insurmountable very difficult problem but it's more about which of the genes that are most important for that are as a disease as it evolves and sees a new host as a thing that we can key in on and i'm not revealing some history of a people as well but what it shows is that evolution is very hard to predict especially from the point of organismal interactions so you now have

a virus it's entering a new host of humans we don't know enough about our in our own immune world immunity reaction to this iris we don't know enough about its interactions with immunity and reservoir host such as bats so i think what's emerging now let's use that term too lightly but what's emerging is that we need a lot more study of virus host interactions and while hamill's to more so you get a greater understanding of how do you work i think that would allow us to make a better prediction about how many iris that could emerge and humans would interact with us but that such is best it's like other animals too who are potentially narrow as. this is their place of fire siskel spread out to rats issue of the setting of the animals they're potentially. you know a host to dangerous to the risk of viruses to us humans i love that question because it recognizes the scope of the problem and i think you you may know this

your listeners may know this was a real. in a world of viruses they are the most common thing on this planet effects all suddenly her life including humans as well as all the animals that live on the planet so it's pretty much impossible to do a blanket surveillance and all that biology became you're not well we can't c.n.n. on the she said seem to be almost. for us in countering them in the lie of receiving them as food that's on in the wild so this is what's going to happen in the next few years for sure to the next decade is going to see a lot more. basic research on these interactions and humans have with wild animals what we consume for food is a big task but i think we are up for it there are a lot of people who study by rolla gee of other organisms not just in humans and that's really what we're talking about here are the viruses were for their interactions with organisms that are not humans what can we predict about what were

they jump into. so that i was talking to a very young russian virologist a couple of days ago and he was sort of proposing the same at d.n.a. as you. know like out of all the viruses that are out there are potential viruses and they could be hundreds of thousands we only know about 6000 out of the 6000 i 3 or 4 are plant based viruses so where to get a database of all the no viruses a study that would really help us go forward with you know coming up that medication and coming out with the facts seem to know that if that were to happen how long would that take that you actually study all the potential viruses that will we know are out there. good question i think unfortunately to study all the viruses that are out there will take centuries potentially unless our methods for studying them improve radically terms of the high throughput ability to do it. a

better way to you know in my opinion is to. c n n specific virus. so we know corona virus is a problematic we're a bit complacent about mers from the virus are strong a virus one other corona virus issues that have happened in this century and we were a little late to that game we didn't we worry a lot about flu and understandably so but now so much attention is going to be paid to corona viruses the key is what else is out there there's certainly other viruses that might have variants particular species there in some family of viruses that we consider to be a night for humans and yet you see very. easy ones to protect ourselves against but what if we don't and this is the problem with studying pandemics you don't know and so you know it's easier to be reactive than proactive but i hope that we are entering a new renaissance here i don't think we need any more evidence to show us that this is a vitally important problem facing we're talking about carotid viruses because this

is the burning question now and from what we know there are around 30 types of coronaviruses known to us would you say it is more important to work on a universal vaccine that would actually be excellent at all of this they're occurring viruses are suing me. for a vaccine that is afaik to each one of them i think currently the goal is probably for those who are chasing the vaccine to work against this corona virus and the reason is that we are fortunate in seeing that it's not changing very much at the genetic level over time it's not like the flu problem or we have to really come up with a new vaccine each flu season because the virus is changing so quickly and what worries me about a universal vaccine against all coronaviruses is that universal banks things are just so difficult to establish and prove that they have safety and efficacy across that group that's a tall order worry about bad as the goal in

a more realistic goal would be. that seems are being this current coronavirus problem that doesn't seem to be changing very quickly we will face the issue of waning immunity and i'm sure you've heard of that in others as well as we have no evidence yet and if somebody is infected with this current through the virus and then it recovers from it they're protected long term through immunity if they were that would be wonderful but there's just no evidence to show that in my opinion at this point so we will be faced with perhaps in the back scene and then getting it again just unity but i don't see we're at the point right now where the strategies to create a universal vaccine against all current offices fortunately the other ones that affect us are very. quiet so i'm sure you heard that tell top that delegates caving 2015 everyone's talking about right now it was about how

unprepared for that it was for an epidemic following the ball outbreak and he actually proposed dealing with fusion badasses like we do with horse and i don't care for so stand by trade that have infrastructure in place costly trade practice to restart and they may not have enough to have all of what we'll be able to see something like that after they sit at it. and i think that that's i think that's very likely is that the global economic problem is also in from this i think of course only is as big or a big driver as the health issue so there are many people are unfortunately getting sick and dying and yet we don't even know the extent of the global economy. problems that have resulted from this and demi so what bill gates and others might be going for it if you can sort of prove idea that she taken seriously prepare ourselves for the future we know this is going to happen again in

a highly we're very population density. and many areas species were highly vulnerable so this from just fundamental epidemiology what one should expect were her patients and we certainly could be better prepared about the future already towards that it's just a terrific goal i definitely applaud that effort or that idea just very quickly i want to go too deep into that what do you make of that possibility out immediately past voice that some countries are tolerate. i think that we have probably sufficient knowledge you that we could pull it off. i worry that it's going to contribute to a lot of what we already see in the world is how does an app not has access to brown the planet from an economic standpoint that's clearly the case that everybody can travel as easily is because they can't it's i'm to move away from their job or just take a vacation etc there's all sorts of restrictions that adding

a layer of restriction to it sounds like a pretty daunting and not a very fun way to move forward if you know that's my memory of a same time i'm a realist so if there's a short period of time when i feel like humans or maybe inconvenience or good purpose this seems like one of those times and if there has to be a reduced ability to just move freely around the planet and if we're better able to track who has been exposed to the virus was recovered from it i can't say that that's a bad idea there are way we'll be right back with paul turner professor of ecology law prevails at yale university talking about what's going to happen to this is the nearest creature stateless.

yeah it's. easy to. use give away you because you knew you could if you could only get you to go to egypt would you if you could. tackle. them was not a deal of content is neutral when it. comes to stories means less lethal with. just the curious. clinking you sit. on the slum to sleep. just when you finish. my handgun ban you from me my sibling afforded to you no more.

is your media a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe. isolation or community. are you going the right way or are you being led so. please direct. what is true what is faith. in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. aura made in the shallowness. during the vietnam war you. there was

a secret war. and for years the american people did not know. millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country. even today kids in laos full victims of bombs dropped decades ago is the u.s. making amends for the tragedy and. help to the people need in that little.

we're back with professor paul turner president microbiology and ecology at yale university a pall iraq back to sorry parapet searching sorry for it he meant our president a virus of generations and generations ago sardina to remember is how to fight certain factions and then we as faces grow more resistant over time and then it got me thinking how come some people go through chicken pox and their kids go through chicken pox as well. so this is the interesting thing about interactions between humans and certain passages so you said many things that are very intriguing in your statement one is that you see and genomes the ghosts of infection so in the long long ago evolution of our predecessors on this planet if they were interacting with viruses and being infected enough those viruses got it once all the germline

so if they are asked for generation to generation through gametes then they become part of our genome and that's what we can recognise really when you do human genome sequence it interesting recent listenings there was a lot of in a social good so part of it for example lisa proper for mission or a sense of and the inability of the mother to reject the child is something that seems like it's parasite rowing within the human body experience treating that's a viral gene that allows an interaction to work well in all placental mammals analysis go fast forward to more of the current day yes there are virus genes that might be in our genome that help us in a way express these genes and prevent us from being attacked by other viruses as vigorously so i take your questions i mean would if we fast forward ahead to many hundreds of years or thousands of years into the future the viruses of today are shaping up or we should future definitely the case. and the ways of avenues

very unclear and we haven't. see how that happens or still trying to decipher have heard asked what is undoubtedly happening and. i was also i was training asked if that had our immune system involved kill well over time and become to it so that iris is more have to develop meaning taisha is to get it's honest. i say yes that's a that's an intriguing question so the immune system to me as fascinating and i should say very transparently i'm not an immunologist i try and read up on the topic as much as i can it's lots of other immunologists so the interesting that you mean ology is one of the few things that's me reflects increased complexity over time in evolution so evolution doesn't always have this increasing complexity it has plenty of single cell organisms around today there are around billions of years ago for example and they're doing quite a few but the point of increasingly complex system is prone to breakdown and

breaks in the armor so the thing about immune response to some pathogens in ways that we don't entirely know they could be too big a risk right you're seeing this in the current and to make some individuals are being infected in their immune systems are in a way seemingly overreacting to the problem creating a worse problem maybe hastening it becoming a mortality ship and i don't think that this is very well understood but it's certainly very real so what i'm getting at is the unfortunate consequence of an increasingly price immune system is that yes it creates vulnerabilities because it is a complex immune system it works very well to protect this and i'm very happy i have it at the same time this is the root cause of auto immunity the mis firey the immune system to solve problems and actually turn the immune system on you and even creo worst problems as a result i think that's what you were getting at. was let me know. yes i know

you've also said that viruses are immensely deborah hersman. plentiful on their planet so we could be in fact with a ton of different barracks and serve as a host to them and never even knew where they and that we also see what kind of ice island south people asil to that day they don't even know they had corona. you know put aside the night our most viruses harvest to themis their you know harmless to humans or me in mountain off of the spot in a commune barrier so then we don't have to wait for him by used it we just have barriers against the infection and there's lots of ways that's built in to the geno so he had about 3000 level way for me to answer your question is it is a bit like swimming in a sea of viruses on this planet they're in the air we breathe the water we drink the suit we and by and large a lot of them are incapable of infecting her cells but interestingly some of them

will strike syria so they may be in fact a plant matter and you need sally and you and just a plant virus and it exits the other end tags and it can go on and infect a plant after that so fortunately we never know when some viruses enter and leave our body because they do us absolutely no harm and we fight them off successfully and the ones we do care about are at the so-called top of what's been referred to as a pathogen pyramid at the base of the pyramid are very many microbes including this is that you see every day as you marge upwards. you know as you traverse the top of this germinate you have mentioned gets at those that are of epidemic potential work and then it's ensuring they get the most attention deservedly so and the unfortunate consequence is that we pay so much attention to them for all we know coronaviruses might be interacting with other viruses that are already in some people in some way in the directly or indirectly and this might be

a clue to why the corona virus might be especially deadly and that person so that's a number. some of what you call partly microbial disease that's a big phrase just to say multiple microbes contributing to disease and i would have to say the best a very under study problem because it's a difficult problem to study it's not as a scientist a big nor good it's just a difficult one to grapple with is just a variety of data sets there what's making him safe reverses 1st they could be due to some virus that's lurking in there that has not been described at all inside it's so i think we need to march in those efforts as well the secondary infections i come in with around a virus even non viral bacterial infections and seem to be contributing to secondary pneumonias and deaths and some individuals this really has to be examined from a poly microbial effort. to. do we have any essential glasses that live in us there are important actually good for our well being kind

of like the carry that material well maybe so the residents of our micro biome are diverse and includes viruses and that's something times or birds or as the viral so just like the micro biome that most people have heard about that familiar with it different parts of your body you'll have different types of viruses that are characteristics residing in that part of your body and exactly what they're doing there is not quite clear are they so-called free riders of these is there in we don't have any benefit or detriment to having them there are they interacting in some circumstances with the residents of our micro biome to synergistically keep us healthy i think that's plausible i don't know of any very strong direct evidence for it but i think i like your question because it's also a great one for future effort viral has not been as well characterized from person to person. and interaction with things that we do every day like our diet much as

a. vegetarian diet does. numbers jerry night in tribute to your viral in it it might just because anything seems to be possible because it's with micro biome so i i think i don't have a strong definitive answer yet because i don't believe science has found a definitive answer. a positive versus negative consequences of interacting with these viruses that are with us every recycle day is a great possibility for future work. so when a virus later said to sort of hijacks cells to rock the cave and he has an experiment with liberated virus into it and run tests they want to stay the viruses they send that it would eventually die out before it is essential harm could this ecology work with a colleague not until just in question has we really looked into this with hiv infection and could you develop schieber in

a way hiv. approaches the so let me back up so somebody was infected with a j is typically her church they are simply at best we can create antiviral combinations that keep a load of virus down in their body and city live a long life without viral load increases one point that they become in 8 mission so the in this yes we looked into this idea that you could take some cell type in the body that is less precious than your immune cells such as blood cells could you generate was something that we tried. to inspect those cells instead in the case of a study that might be a good strategy because there's no nucleus and red blood cells so therefore there's no way for h.p.v. enter that cell actually rappel it so machinery hijack because there's no d.n.a. in a nucleus so that was a fun project to work on me we moved to the lawn we didn't advance that research very much but i think they're you raising this issue time that we're living in

right now i believe is a special on we'll look back on. when it seemed as if far out there or left field service new ideas were little too much for biomedicine another were scrambling to find ways to solve the endemic in a way i wonder if we're going to enter into it's time when there's a little more. within the realms of safety to examine ideas that are pretty atypical ones for bias can we bridge and engineering principles other realms of science biology to come up with you know is this really an idea that might be a game changer and if they put a little bit of effort towards doing it over several months or even years we might just develop something that is so new to the world and so biomedicine it will be a major transition and to me that is my hope is that once we know what this problem i mean that the other side of it whatever the other side may be is that will really

try to head straight mind you with some very out of the box thinking with what we might do just so you know by tomorrow. i hope we humans get a chance to see based out of the box a face that could be a stellar new raising for the whole humanity thank you very much for this wonderful interview for his insight it was keep all the past stay safe and hopefully we'll talk soon a.j. when terms are better than the damages eller thank you for having me either cheryl it's my.

we go to work so you straight home. during the vietnam war u.s. forces also bombs neighbor unless there was a secret war and for years the american people did not know. how much it is occasionally some mouth can rebound country per capita in all human history millions of unexploded bombs still in danger lives in this small agricultural country jordyn wieber going to continue to happen. even today kids in laos full

victim to bombs dropped decades ago is the us making amends for the tragedy in laos what helped to the people need in that little land on. good to bad in the in a few will ago please do you think you were. dying why are some of the wealthier neighborhoods it's been far more contained in the numbers are much lower than some of the foreign neighborhoods. are. anything we're working with can source outside. state is there just so any.

bike to school doesn't lean back to normality save parents and friends as the government starts reopening classes after 2 months of lockdown. number of children in the u.s. and u.k. are suffering from an unknown inflammatory disease thought to have been triggered by a delayed immune response to cope with 90 you hear from the mother of one child struck down by the disease. here the doctor seen there with the way his hydration everything was they were only giving him another 282-4248 hours he will last. a french drug giant comes under pressure not just from the country's government but also its people trip road.