thank you alex 1st of all in response to our extended interview this to heidi burns a former chief medical officer for scotland mike says this is a fascinating interview long in-depth and totally vetting absolute honor and i really really hope people in particular on board and take action tracy says this is the best interview i've listened to and makes a lot more sense than what we have to listen to on the news with the politicians seem to tell us very little and almost says wish you were still r.c.m. or heidi then in response to a sure last week on media on the pandemic award winning journalist peter osborne and chris hedges from both sides of the atlantic lewis says love the show interesting look at what the press are seeing i mean no doubt that they will increase their criticism of the prime minister and his government want to says it must be scary living in the us to be so bad for humanity in policy development she then goes on to city agree we have huge inequality too norma says the print media is dying but it's mostly their own fault by some lies that's what they print i

haven't bought a newspaper for years but i get all untruthfully on social media gemma says newspapers have brought on their own demise by reporting biased news and finally scott says there is no way to run a pandemic government just save lives and live right a lot of the better part of the world economy as an event without precedent in the world has strained never before has a world recession been engineered as a deliberate policy to tackle our health crisis vicky pryce is the chief economic advisor of the center for economic and business research she's also former head of the economic service and the united kingdom who better to assess the prospects for economic recovery vicky pryce now joins me from london. vicky pryce what of the 4th quarter economic figures tell us about the impact of the. world economy basically we're seeing anything traction to spread across the world

and be one of the interesting issues is 1st of all how much. to do contractionary and his activity to stop because we're beginning to feel someone who knows outcomes just now in the western world anyway the question then who say this was. not an impact that would have and whether the recovery that we're all hoping will happen at some point is class as the national motto funhouse but whether we're going to have one it was chucked it period during which we tried to get out of this recession which is the largest they've seen released since the great crash in the early part of the 20th century and whether therefore that is going to leave scars for quite some time and the economy simply aren't going to recover and change going to come or anything what we lose to see is all for now when your sense financial crisis so that it's telling us we're in recession basically that's what

they do since most of. the country is the major condom is a been flowing for could only be described as economic how it serves the recession at the crisis what policies haven't passed through the morse thus far i think all governments have it don't prepare it to engage in quota borrowing in order to sustain the economy so fiscal rules have been abandoned i think the governments have learned from the financial crisis is exactly what was needed then but it was suddenly easier because we had one problem to deal with the banking system trying to avoid the credit crunch from causing huge financial instability that was more easily handle that this is quite unprecedented because we have it both ways that when. trying to expand the amount which is local trying to do then what we're trying to do now is sustain the population and this is this why we're pushing demand and supply downward sentiment but this is quite unprecedented for central

buying to be buying us on the scale but would you say it's justified given the unprecedented nature of the economic crisis are completely about illusions to fight who must remember that the european central bank has been doing this for a long period of time cos it's not new for them and since 10 to 15 now been quite aggressively we've now abandoned concerns about how much we do the u.k. for example has been able to sell its bonds and finance. the deficit is going to have this year estimated to something like 300000000000 pounds mainly because the central bank his feeling behind it printing money you could call it promising to buy all those bonds that others will acquire back from them so they know that there's someone there to make the market for them that the risk is a small part and therefore the bank of it in his neighbor with the support so the

treasury rather has been able to support him the bank of england to go out to the markets and issuance of bonds very low rates can then use money on it to fund guarantee course a lot of the activities that are going on my mountain markets to sustain the economy going to do without that whether you bank of england bank of japan received the list said that also has been quite supportive in china and elsewhere. that think you have seen much much faster here and racial conditions in the us. thus far some countries are been substantially more successful in containing the virus than others korea taiwan in europe gleason's and germany will these countries be insulated from the economic effects or will they be caught

up in a general don't term in the world economy and world trade. to worry thing about the world economy so he was already slowing down going down very significantly before the crisis hit or working it seems that the change is huge between china and the u.s. in particular had already we've used chinese growth question centrally and really use glancing notes in other parts of the world japan was an export and a lot of the time in the 1st china was growing particularly germany wasn't us for 2 months a china scene in europe in fact was a few quarters of contraction some of the commons there that included actually germany it also included the u.k. because we're also going to hear by that slowdown in change and than being a worry in any case one of the reasons why monetary policy has been relaxed and ready. for this crisis has been the calls on the central banks are trying to

sustain growth in those regions and practiced or still responsible and resources to be given to the market again not quite aggressively back you remember in crackle of last year it is a very unusual situation so if there isn't a resumption of trade pretty soon. extend that that sustains the world economy as we've seen our home concentrate is then countries that have done quite well in terms of containing the fires are still going to be affected by the slowdown in trade and we're hearing who else is sumption on all the possible resumption of changes to this between the u.s. and china which of course is going to be affecting markets for which there are. some economists. some political liberals a been pretty forward hope so there might be a substantial economic recovery in the back end of the sheer 2021

as of any real prospect of a vicious. recovery as it's called or are we more likely in for a period of prolonged what recession we don't know that's the interesting thing if you look at china and the data has come out of it then went to quite a bit line in the 1st quarter so what we saw is in quite a dip in induction production particular now if you look at what's been happening recently the april data are after 2 months of very serious decline so increase again so china is moving out of it is no reason why other countries if that is the lockdown shouldn't either art i think is for a thing in mind that when ruth who know what's going on right now what happens in the mansion prices back in 200-8009 the monster went into recession very quickly i didn't last very long it was a v.

shape well but at the time that's we had the then. all prices were still quite high commodity prices were high actually doing reasonably well i mean it's just as the school's recovering that someone's going to use went into recession the concern prices fell one might as well so there was a bit of a balancing out there also if this time seems to be the case that the developing world is also going to see a fall this year and getting out of that for them might actually be much more difficult than was the case back in the form of the financial crisis because many have very high debts now most of congress and most high debts 200 due to the beginning of the financial crisis and of course they will have difficulty security is the have to continue their incomes to pay back some how any credit worthiness left sort of a deep thoughts right lots of debt is not going to be a nice experience for the world economy for a while so yeah i think the shape is. in your recent book

women versus capitalism. if you put forward the view that women still face substantial obstacles in terms of business and the economy and developing careers and going into positions of influence do you anticipate that women might also get the her share of the economic impact of the covert 19 crisis but a lot of the push is going to slow down in the economy the international monetary fund has come to that are in times of recession slowdown women suffer the most and of course the tend to be the poorest members of society because there is a big wage gap and they do the types of jobs which are the margins of society quite a lot for their work. not paid and they're the ones for most like you hong kong today so yes i worry on what's happening in the developed world is just like the

pressures for gender equality seem to. have eased a little bit right now and probably will not be at the forefront of any becoming the thanks place you see here in the u.k. for example in the long parlance for the firms to some simply if you see the gaps that the have in their organization in their women has been delayed and that causes a hurry to be going backwards and forwards and when we take them back you can who are again in the position when one has been lucky so the hunt or take medicine will be slowed down because of this and those in the main concerns and if you look at data it does suggest that women and young are the most of them in this process. join us after the break when we continue our discussion with called i must thank you price.

you are no fan speed you no longer a young woman in fact you are one of the last living survivors of the nazi yeah. i'm aware of it. all your life.

they forget. to be in jail she would never believe i want. to ask. for 3 years of the. very best at all she was told by the family. when i get out i'm going to find some. place in hopefully bless her. that's geysers financial life they say money to develop. close to these it is a central plank support dying at the moment i'm going to call them right now she stopped. welcome but i'm discussing with vicky pryce the former head of the government

economic service and i think by the efficacy of the financial policies being pursued by governments right in the world will do so so the v. shaped recovery may also be more set for a prolonged recession. record price you pay. for the bills have to be settled some point after the crisis is over the policy makers wrote the world will be looking for different means of of raising taxation is to close some of the substantial 1st call gobs of the early opportunities in terms of the economics effect to the crisis for example we knew them thurstan carbon taxes given the substantial fall in the resource price that may offer themselves us more attractive policy options than normal from canonic you point it's a carbon tax that we need is not just because of the cause and now there's all

sorts of behaviors that many get much more likely that we'll get to a solution that will lose less force and you know even move into the area of carbon capture and storage to alternative fuels and to get out of boston piers that can be used to not only i'm certain way imo instantly just on gas our presence this is huge which to say to construct an industrial policy in countries that is who you want in the future. what we have before thankfully i'm going to need some more time changed and so have been sent to many countries by no are certain is the case in the u.k. so see those are some of the tunes that also there's a worry about evil tends to get poorer than month to get what. fronts are the same theme what changes would you expect to see in the economy as

once 1st crisis is finally over you wanted to see what would be what happens the way we work. there is now serious discussion about whether one means of this commercial property that's out there and one. saddest thing of this mean for our pensions given that money is invested in certainly in the you can't remain advanced nations to. believe me that we were more from home when one is very much see is that he notes that in some countries germany for example was thinking of. legislating that you can write work from home for the want maybe globalization a little go backwards because we need to be close to supply chains maybe there's a lot more on showing all the saying is that our now so the possum can go home so he can make it work most of their own state much to get well. because so many

companies are going to be requiring systems they already are and then find it in the sand to think to have been in the got. of course is of the room and i think the banking system will have different to. how quite new to the getting any of the loans back to them though the danton been stated in many places and then consumer might just change the habits. i think is the one to god's needs or they might be much more careful how they spend that money in the future. be worried about the spot then happening again so i think it's a cozy with a very important no confidence because john's will be great say prove jason to vicky pryce from london thank you very much indeed for for joining us on the show you. well in the aftermath of this extraordinary economic crisis which has followed the global pandemic or new economic thinking

a mess of as countries come to terms with the fool economic ramifications of covert 19 a time to jobs care of a leading economic thinker and scotland a former s.n.p. member of parliament just kind of an joins me from edinburgh now the bigger economy is all economies of we'll go to the big guns in order to confront the economic consequences of a lot though the enemy is unprecedented positions of our and in just world recession and just as a deliberate act of policy isn't this exactly the the moment where central banks are justified in a substantial purposes quantity of easing printing money isn't this the exactly the situation where the unprecedented action is justified i think you're right miss me was how quickly i mean as

a matter of microseconds the core of the big central banks went back to cranky of the money machine trying to pump more cash into the economy the trouble is they can really use that mechanism over the last decade to cut interest rates down to rock bottom so that more money is being printed now it's essentially going to replacing lost taxes doing a lot and it's not actually adding extra demand to the global economy in a way that would expand investment and expand empirics which is why i think ultimately the solution if you want to get the global economy back on track and growth back up to trend is going to be more. secure injection not not monetary cost you know essentially keeping interest rates down which is what monetary policy has been used for to date i think comes you have to use them. they're printing from the central banks and companies are actually into the economy directly into investment directly into purchases interest rates already at rock bottom out so

what we need to do is to put money directly into spending and you're seeing some governments begin to do that chinese government began to do that even trumps government is really meant is that america not so much yet in europe. but coming to the u.k. economics the snow criticism has been mounting against the prime minister's handling of the crisis the chancellor has been getting rave reviews the new chancellor of the exchequer seems to be the the darling of much of the media commentary is that praise justified as the more that should be being done by the u.k. exchequer and actually the bank of him of just being given the chance or cash directly so he's got no shortage of spending per moment and if you use sort of spending curve then you could look good i think the real test for the chancellor is one hand out of a look. could well be that the chancellor thinks he can resort to an all fashion

gambit which is to boost inflation and of course if inflation goes up in the medium term then they value of the debts that the government has contract it will contract will fall in real terms so i think the chance of might find it hard to raise taxes and freeze public sector pay if the media aftermath of the of the look but i think chair he might looked kindly towards a little bit of inflation tell the economy along what side of new and different thinking the usage of kind of an emerging from this crisis i can't imagine there's the political will to go back to another bowl of a stereotype it's a payoff the substantial sums of money the government support across the world. so there's going to have to be other ways of funding government from no owners and you and you sort of thing series called monetary series and essentially says that

it's actually quite a good thing for governments to port because when they borrow they are issuing government bottoms and those bonds are trying to wilkes i just be very simple simplified about it you know where does your pension come from. yeah you're you're you have to save what could you see even well you can't you know your pension fund buys government loans government borrowing is actually quite a good thing because the local term underpins people's pensions so there might well be a rethink of course the world about borrowing government borrowing and making and see this as a positive thing that we see in the year of the stairs who are the last 20 years but that would be a very substantial change in economic thinking when the economy is a business indebted as they will be a melting from this crisis after napoleonic wars in europe after of the world wars of the 20th century that have been they've tended to be followed by

a period of austerity which has been justified on the basis of balancing the books . well i mean the curious thing if you look at the 2nd world works the best i could remember. was that there was an initial view yes you know having your vast about some of it mean the british national debt was running it twice of g.d.p. be twice what it is at the moment. it was in him and we have thought well maybe we have to you know tighten our belts and and pay all the sauce but i mean that i actually didn't happen at the end of the 2nd world war they more or less grew our way out of it the americans. bless the cotton socks came up with a marshall plan and came up a lot of money in the initial 8 by the by the 1950 s. we were actually bordering a lot more and we moved over to funding the economy through. personal debt and that

they should wards of public debt left over from fighting the war the that was just left there really suits to the end of the 1960 s. and aggression lost it served its real value through inflation so the actually you know the lesson of the 2nd world war is that we didn't really rush to a sterrett see we had 20 or 30 years of quite positive growth and inflation and let the debt just disappear in real terms i suspect there will be. over you know the stereotype forces growing the economy and i think the bankers always get kind of conservative this might be pressure or pressuring the chancellor syrup so to move towards the stairs but i think you will find it very difficult in political terms to get away with that once people come out of what. i think we're into a nuclear will be a big debates about how to get out of this and i think political movements that

just simply want to go back to the old the stereotypic light of business i think they will find it very difficult to achieve that. and finally just kevin if you were still gracing the green benches of the house of commons what policy single policy prescription would we be offering to the the chancellor as. a way of helping to come out of this economic crisis and for policy option do you believe the scottish government should be pursuing to sure that they've got new thinking to meet these different times well the policy that has bubbled up or is not is now being discussed north and south of the border is introducing a universal piece of income the i could be yours a sense get rid of all the old baggage and a bureaucracy of of the different welfare systems to show work anyway which people too busy trying to you know so in order forms and which are means tested let's just have a basic income that everybody gets which takes care of basic needs and that in

a sense save your money to get rid of all of the bureaucracy and it saves you a lot of the mental health problems of current people through these hoops and actually creates you know a kind of. civics coming together so that people can begin to concentrate on rebuilding the economy thinking you are used to rebuilding the economy and so on so i think universal b.c. income is going to become the issue that we will be discussing over the next period i knew just that the new social justice and fairness commission that they scorched up and set up is discussing this and i think i'm looking forward in time. we're going to see that major change occurring you actually have the welfare state is organized does calvin from edinburgh find you very much for joining us once again on the alex salmond show. we can now see pretty clearly

the shape of the world economic response to the onset of the 1000 crisis most finance ministers of aimed. at the pandemic with varying degrees of success the real question is the jews ability of the crisis and those countries which have been pretty successful in containing the virus taiwan south korea germany greece new zealand are still looking with trepidation at those countries in western europe the united states of america which are still struggling and indeed the increasing signs that so for america is being grouped by the pandemic they know this successful countries know that what old economic recovery depends on world control of the virus in that sense we are most definitely all in this together. in the u.k. increasing questions are being asked as to why it's only now 3 months into the crisis that the comprehensive system of contact facing is only just getting off the

ground control of the violence stomping down on the infection would seem to be a prerequisite for economic recovery not on off the fop but there's little point that aiming big guns at the economy if it's peashooters was a big game that public health and self has been our myself and all the show is good bye for now stay safe and we'll see you again next week.

'd to let me show you the cities in eastern ukraine along the wall or a parking. place that just. has to be seen all. the stuff down there some say i think if you could say thank you everybody we know is. if we more. or less did not see him. politically. thankfully the police and. the. box is likely to finish editions it should perhaps up to. test it.

welcoming our viewers from around the wild live from central london this is all to u.k. . time is running out for the british government to put an effective track and trace program in place according to health service leaders i'll be joined by a world health organization spokes person shortly. the government confirms it will increase the health service surcharge for northern e.u. migrant workers amid calls to scrap it for n.h.s. and current workers. scientists predict disruptions to cancer treatment and delays to remove shoes could lead to thousands of extra deaths we hear from the former director of the w.h.o. cancer program professor carol cicle. and the british government 6 additional

powers to put restrictions on terror suspects for an unlimited time occluding weakening the required burden of proof that all the measures necessary will be debating this with a film account of terror chief and a human rights lawyer a little later. health service leaders say that time is running out for britain to implement an effective track and trace strategy risking a 2nd wave of coronavirus that's as the government confirms it will be increasing the health service surcharge for known you foreign workers amid calls to scrap it for workers fighting the virus on the front line but he carries the sound he joins me live in the studio and. there are real worries about the government's track and trace system absolutely boris johnson has promised to have 25000 traces in place as part of his plan to get the system up and running by the 1st of june of course

that's when many prime school children will slowly begin returning back to the classrooms but these recent received a letter from the. chief executive of the n.h.s. confederation doctrinal dickson has penned this letter to the health secretary actually outlining his concern saying that time is running out to finalize the tests truck and trace strategy that will be needed to avoid a 2nd surge also says that members of the confederation are concerned that unless there is a clear strategy there will be a greater risk of a 2nd wave so as far as those exports are concerned if the government doesn't get this system in place then we will be heading towards a 2nd wave or 2nd surge of both covert $1000.00 infections and also of course a rise in the number of deaths arising out of that now we understand that the antibody tests which have long been awaited are finally going to be honed out next

week now those tests have just been approved and of reportedly 100 percent accuracy records and there will be hopes that the n.h.s. workers will be the 1st to access those in order for them to the who's had the virus who have built up immunity and then that will possibly also let other n.h.s. workers who have been off the turn back to the front lines and he said the n.h.s. surcharge rau is gathering pace absolutely so what we've seen is the government implementing a surcharge for foreign non e.u. workers in order for them to be able to access services like the n.h.s. now that is going to be raised from $400.00 pounds to a little over $620.00 pounds and there have been calls particularly from 2 tory m.p.'s some raja galen william rag for these payments or this. fee if you will to be exempted from e.u. n.h.s. workers with a 2 tory m.p.

say these people have essentially been risking their lives for the country by working in social care by working in the n.h.s. and that they should be made. it's from paying that the charge is going to go ahead the government have doubled down and saying that they will be increasing that fee again by over $200.00 pounds but we could also see perhaps an exemption coming if the pressure continues for at least and it says work is not having to pay for those surcharges and fees thank you very much indeed for one of the world to discuss the government's initiative on track and trace i'm now joined by a spokesperson for the world health organization dr margaret harris margaret very good of you to be with us now the government is promising to roll out contact tracing by the 1st of june this is then the way out of the crisis good afternoon bill yes essentially testing tracing tracking treating the as

the full payload you have to know where your virus serious you have to know who's got it you've got to know who's potentially got it and you've got it we have to separate those people from the healthy people if you could do that you could stop the virus from jumping from person to person and if it can't keep jumping from person to person it's got nowhere to go you can you can bring it down and you can eliminate it from your population but it's very very hard work but how does the u.k. system compared to other countries for example we hear a great deal of success when it comes to south korea. so south korea had a lot of experience with the threat that an infectious hazard can pose to the population they had a large mo's outbreak in 2015 and they learned an enormous number of lessons from that and one of those was the importance of context tracing then another one they

learned was risk communication and the 2 go together people need to be aware that they need to identify themselves as potentially at risk and they need to take this the health of the population into their own heads by being very much a part of alerting people to the possibility that they may be infected and ensuring that the chains can come to them so it's not just simply having teams it's also having the community larry aware of what's going on and how they can help so this is the reason why britain is the 2nd worst death toll in the world with its failure to really implement tracking tracing earlier on i mean it is quite staggering isn't it that here we are in the u.k. seeing a far bigger crisis compared to other countries. certainly a large diff toll could is made up of a lot of different components so you couldn't just say one thing is causing a very large death toll that the u.k. is very sadly experiencing you could have sectors like the age structure of the

population you could have better actual reporting in other words reporting everybody who may be may have been affected by code so really until the end of this outbreak when we have a chance to do deeper investigations into every country's outbreak only then will we really know if there was a big difference between different countries mortality rates and why the debate at the moment on the possible opening of schools now the w.h.o. says there's no transmission in children under 10 so does that mean that you or recommending the fact that school should go ahead and open as soon as possible. i should clarify that there really isn't the science yet to say categorically that there's no transmission but what we are seeing is that the transmission in family clusters tends to go from the parents to the children so this there are far fewer examples of children transmitting to the parents but again we need to have

a lot more information to categorically state that but the other element of this is that younger children do seem to. do have a much milder illness and it's unusual for them to have the severe illness but having said that there are some children who are developing a post coded syndrome similar to coas sucky syndrome so there isn't children when they go back to school should be thinking oh well this is fine no all the things that you need to do to be safe must be put in place of course not as the prospect of the rollout of antibody tests and your organization is saying well maybe if you've had the virus you can't be too short of how long you'll be immune to it any further developments. in that can we be sure that once we've had it we are unlikely to get it again what is the real stance on this at this stage the science is unclear just as you said so antibody test gives you

a number and it says you've got this level of a particular antibody and there are 3 different types of antibodies would normally be looking at it and so one of them tells you you've had it recently another one says that you've developed some longer lasting response to it but what it doesn't tell you is whether the longer lasting response will protect you from the 2nd. infection because corona virus is a notorious for being able to do that and i'm not saying this coronavirus i'm saying in this family there is that tendency the only way to know in the short term that an antibody protect syria is to actually be tested for the anybody and then go and be exposed to the virus and see if you get it again and if you could imagine there are a lot of ethical issues around doing such an experiment so the longer term way is to observe the population and see what happens but that takes much longer to have a clearance effect is that not pursuing the herd immunity initiative the obviously

the government initially looked into here in this country. so this concept immunity . the concept of the herd immunity really comes from that the nation so when you vaccinate a population you want to reach a certain percentage and it differs with different viruses in order to block the virus just as i was saying you can do it physically by separating the sick from the healthy or if you have a large lots of people with known protection and remember i said you have to know that those antibodies protect you if you have a large number of people around an infection it can't go anywhere because it can't infect the people around but we still don't know if that situation really exists so it's a theoretical concept quite a few don't know who's coming from. at the moment and of course your guys ation war last month it was too early to come out of lockdowns it is now a good time or is it really still too early. so what we say it's not so much too

early but take it do it very slowly so don't just release everybody sort of you're out of school of if you go and don't think that was the way we lived before is the way we can live now so when you are easing your lot down in the turn that really needs to be used all the time here is ease you ease it slowly and gently you test the waters you try different things and ensure that when you've tried different things your limiting the the crowding so your ensuring that people can really maintain physical distancing and you're absolutely essential about the hand hygiene absolutely obsessional about there is fear trip protection making sure people cover their mouth nose and eyes it mouth nose and nose when they sneeze or cough never touch your mouth nose and eyes with your hand unless you've washed it perfectly just before all those things must be done all the time so every time

a new thing is planned like opening schools all those things have to be put into consideration just finally and briefly you don't want donald trump as accuse the w.h.o. been to china central what do you make of that do you have facing investigation in to the original spread of the virus. there will be this ongoing a lot of scientific investigation a lot of the in 1st a geisha in into the origins of the virus that is what animal it came from we know it came from the horse you bet but we believe there was an intermediate host and we want to understand better the dynamics that led to it jumping from that intermediate host into the human population of that work is ongoing and that will be done by the food network cultural organization the organization for animal health and of course. junction with us and with other scientists there is more information we all want on older sons as you said there are still a lot of don't knows but remember this new virus arrived in our population at the

end of last year and we're not even halfway through this year so we actually know far more than we ever have known about a new virus in human history dr margaret harris thank you very much indeed for your time really good to talk to you thank you. still to come this hour there are warnings of delays to treat you tube coronavirus could lead to thousands more cancer deaths will be hearing from accounts experts very shortly. and a couple of fill seats on the matter control over terror suspects prompting beginnings of potential human rights abuses from both sides of the debate. as you notice in your restaurant that they blow up patrons are consuming anything the solution according to the policy makers would be to make them blow up consumers

bigger like them to inject more up you know helium or oxygen into the blow up and that also mouth improve the situation they're not taking into consideration of their dead the life they do they can't consume just like the money's velocity number shows us that for now a couple of decades has been dying and recently the money is now pretty much. a new cold war isn't this time we should get china what are the terms of engagement what does it mean to win this conflict an all out war possible how did the u.s. and its alliance find themselves in this situation.

thousands of lives could be lost due to delays to cancer surgery according to a study on the impact of coronavirus a report by the institute of cancer research reveals that more than 90000 cancer patients would find surgery of the course of the you ought to 3 months to the age of treatment could lead to an additional $4755.00 deaths and that's as charity breast cancer now has highlighted that 24 percent of women living with incurable secondary breast cancer had seen delays or cancellations to the treatment but the n.h.s. insists cancer services are still going ahead. these theoretical what if scenarios don't correspond to what is actually now happening because kansas out of says are in fact continuing and expanding vital tests and treatments are going ahead in a safe way for thousands of patients including by introducing code that protected

cancer. well for more on this are now joined by cancer expert professor carol sykora really good of you to be with us today professor this is a very concerning of course isn't it how long could it take for a cancer treatment to return to normal do you think that's the key question if it's only a 6 weeks delay it worked have too much impact on survivor or will be able to deal with that group of patients surging through the post surgical system for radiotherapy through chemotherapy if we're on the other hand it takes 3 months or even worse 6 months if there was a 2nd wave and then we go into winter and winter precious in a hospital that older people getting pneumonia and coming in it could be very serious injury you know about 35000 people have lost their lives here in the u.k. with coded and it could be that we lose another 50000 with cancer if we really delay it by 6 months we can understand why there have been delays because obviously we've had to flights coronavirus we've had to prioritize that is is that

a fair assumption the chance of patients are being sorry can i what we've got is that the whole n.h.s. move fantastically and to code and you know clear the wards of all right cancer patients clear the wards of anybody needing surgery or you don't know you've got cancer too you've had surgery or at least a biopsy the biopsy right to identify the piece of tissue that's cancerous has gone right down it plummeted in in april it's still extremely low and so the next phase is very much to get the whole system going create these coded free hubs for surgery and then to make sure we. and deal with the surgeon patients that come through the system and of course many patients who have been too scared to go into hospital can you reassure them that it is safe to go ahead with treatment now the testing systems are up and running it's been a little bit hectic and slow and people pieced together it's not been done well but

now it's up and running the idea would be chest someone coming for surgery a week before and then the day before to see their virus free so we have a century code free zones everywhere from surgery for radiotherapy for chemotherapy and move forward on that basis if we can get going before the end of this month that we're only a week away things will be fine if we don't people are going to die so it really is important however you do the calculation back of the serious epidemiology short epidemiological work however you do them it looks bad if we don't get moving by the 1st week of june if we don't get moving time is of the assess essence are you really confident the n.h.s. can deal with this surge in cases has it got the resources it says it is of course expanding services in this area. what time will tell i think it can do it you know the response to cope it was just once in a generation i've never seen that before i've been a consultant in the n.h.s.

for 40 years now i was very young when i started and i'm very old now i've seen nothing like it in the past so if we do it for cobra surely we can do it for cats that whatever it takes let's do it for cancer do it for heart disease do it for mental health right across the board those 3 specialisms need some concentrated work on now it's great to hear some positive views from you but of course we are constantly warned of perhaps a 2nd wave of this virus it could be around for quite some time so we have then the resources to treat the 19 patients and still provide the same level of treatment for others that's the key question the predictive model the worst case scenario model that's still being use. biled department of health is 2nd wave in september bigger than the 1st wave requiring even more critical care facilities with lung infection by virus and then the winter pressure business when every winter traditionally older people come in with you moan your chest infection that need

treatment so the 2 together basic close down the n.h.s. to everything but chest infection cloak curtain or a non corona that would be a disaster i would mean going back into lockdown. i don't think it's going to happen and i'd love to see the basis of the calculation if you look at the european figures now it's fantastic it's going right down the new infection rate is plummeting it's as though the virus has got bored with us all you know we're dancing with the human host that sauce on the virus or doing this gums trying to find some balancing act they can both become top dog and i think we're going to get there without a 2nd a big 2nd wave i just hope so for the sake of cancer patients really heartening to hear this optimism from you professor carol sykora thank you very much indeed for being with us. those suspected of tour of fences could be subject to indefinite curfews travel restrictions and monitoring under laws proposed by the government as

part of a slew of measures following recent terror attacks in the capital but has worried human rights campaigners if passed it would lower the amount of proof required for authorities to place someone under terrorism prevention and investigation measures as well as scrapping their current time limit of 2 years and also proposes a new 14 year minimum sentence for serious offenses followed by 25 years on license the bill would scrap the august deadline for an independent review of the government's deep radicalization program prevent her and it would give judges the power to decide if a serious offense as far as possession is terror and therefore subjecting the suspect to tougher sentences home secretary pretty pearl says the package was part of the government's commitment to get tougher on terror. the shocking attacks at fishmongers hall in stratham revealed serious flaws in the way terrorist offenders are dealt with we promise to act and today we are delivering on that promise those who senses he seek to damage and destroy lives need to know we'll do whatever it

takes to stop them the bill was proposed after attacks in london last november and in february where carried out by those on license for terror related offenses but the measures have been criticized for not looking at the root cause of the attacks instead deciding to roll back conscious human rights jonathan paul q.c. appointed by the home office to give independent oversight of u.k. terror law said the measures proposed were worrying. i think what parliament will want to consider is what is the operational case for these changes i'm going to release some technical analysis of the changes over the coming days but overall i am uncomfortable with getting rid of protections for individual rights that don't appear to have caused any real problems for the author or a tease to date. to debate this summer joined by human rights lawyer and founder of reprieve clive stafford smith and the former head of the national counterterrorism security office chris phillips thank you both very much for joining us. the

government won an election on this bill it's only doing what the public want. look i've represented perhaps 350 people accused know that these are people who go out military except why don't we do away with their rights to the whole point of great britain is to have a legal system that respects the rule of law that doesn't have a presumption of guilt and the treats people fairly and that is these t. pens just target a bunch of muslim people alienate and then the current world will be more dangerous . chris let's go on then what's your response that to clive yeah well but the difficulty is that terrorism is a different type of offense than what we would you know terribly court. this is people who are planning a proxying sometimes to commit mass murder mass murder that would change society does change society and we do need some special protections i think again it's critical that we do that. as an example we do against sex offenders we've got

a sex offender register we keep people on that so there's not a lot of moaning about that so so i think we have to bear in mind terrorism in a slightly different offense than all the others that we do with a course like many people say what about the human rights of victims people don't care about the human rights of people to commit mass murder as chris was saying well what chris is talking about of course is you can't get on the sex register until you've been convicted in a fair trial of a sexual offense and you know that i represented joe and these top to represent ted bundy for getting this now i'm not saying that ted bundy did as a met serial killer was anything out of north but the idea that we're now using these lures to do away with the fundamental rights of a group of people and let's face it these are 100 percent muslim people is just anathema to the whole process that we believe in and what we've done since $911.00 this we've done a bunch of liberals things like one ton of

a day which just like tea pens i go to guantanamo 10 times we hold people without trial don't get in the trial know what that does for the growth and rich. chris what is interesting that went on about values mentioned because that's a u.s. site of course it's not not a british site and i know we have some involvement but that's us all not so u.k. no i think i think the point is this where terrorism is a very unusual offense and the best example i can give you on this is people that may have committed mass murder in syria or in libya over the last 10 years and now they come back to this country you're not going to be able to prosecute you really are not going to be able to get the the people that were present at the state to come over here give evidence and get them to go to court so so what are we going to do with these people you are you happy for them to come and live next door to you and and carry on a full of free life or do you think that the public may need some extra protections

and let's be quite frank these are very low level protection measures we're talking about people being kept in that house we're not talking about people being locked up in cells like quinton ok let's talk about that and then some of us have the experience of being kept in our house for a long time if you have not been proven yes you're in a crime how would you like to be kept in your house forever and that the idea that guantanamo is an american yes i'm american i apologize for it it's a dreadful idea but it's exactly the same thing as what chris is talking about rick talking about and posing punishments from people without giving him a trial and it's just total nonsense to say that if someone's committed mass murder we can try to imitate the beatles put him on trial and send all sorts of stupid things on film that perfectly possible to trick those people on trial just as we have seen the last 1000 years everyone who we think has committed a crime and it's not difficult really because i think upset over it is that we we think that our legal system is limited in walking that it can actually do against

the likes of the people those who join eisel so surely this approach really will toughen things up when a knock life will touch an attempt in the sense that we're fighting this supposed at war on terror to preserve. right life in the rule of your own the 1st victim the 1st casualty with these a liberal treaty to tell moves is to kill off the very rule of law that we talk about and they do see exactly the same as the argument that the americans of nature grown tired of and then the frustration so i do r.c. the attacks and stratum and fishmongers whole count up to the benefits of a terrorist offenses under these new laws i would have been out of course to do it not tear it all floorboards happens on those things but just how many people are you going to lock up trim to please remember the movie minority report we don't wait for people to commit a crime we just over think you're a bit dubious that's from lock you up right now you know don't just impossible you can't do that and it's bad cases make bad law or i have total sense that the victims of crime don't we can just throw out the legal system because you know

because politicians want to make us afraid that's kept the firework then now from cross you know it's a very small number of people that we're talking about people that there are great suspicions that don't forget this is not going to be done by a policeman behind bill and some some of this this is going to be done by the courts who are renowned for being very recent not these kind of matters and i think we've got to be realistic if we want to be protected and we want to protect ourselves then we've got to give the police the ability to do that clive stafford smith chris phillips thank you very much indeed for a very engaging and lively debate on this we really appreciate your time thank you very much and that's it for the moment i'll be back with more news in half an hour from now.

straight home. 54 jets and more than 1300 military personnel are headed to air force base in alaska where is that to say come on i'll show you what's the reason for any type of enhanced u.s. military presence in this area rush up. what is it suddenly about the south china sea that makes it so that it 11000000000 barrels of oil. take a look at this map who really owns what kind of says no it belongs to us india says

no we claim that that belongs to us both of these countries have nuclear weapons capabilities there is reason for concern so that's why we're going to drill down on this story for you today right here on the news with rick sanchez where you know as we always like to say we do believe by golly it's time to do news again. just like to thank you. you know when the should. you say they use a corner in the way it's an experience we stay in and sing about split us.