and well i was speaking to a guest of the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see of that. alone and welcome the crosstalk were all the things we considered on peter labelle cold war $2.00 targeting china is off the ground and gaining momentum something china must pay for the pandemic well others claim beijing is an existential security threat to the washington centric world still others say washington can't concede we live in a multi-polar world now. cross

knocking china i'm joined by my guest tom what gives a normal he is president and c.e.o. of t w d and associates a global business an educational consulting firm based in michigan as well as a regular contributor to china u.s. focused with an interest as unbuilding heis between the east and west and in singapore we cross to jim rogers he's an international investor and director of. our gentlemen crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump and he was rich all right let me go to singapore jim let me go to you 1st here we hear a lot of bluster coming out of western capitals particularly the united states and the media depending on what. side of the aisle you're on but it's all trying to spot china must pay something must be done it's always the mantra something must be done that is the age we live in something must be me not i look at all of it and then. you know and it's this. kneejerk reaction and of course.

old paradigms like the cold war that was ended in 1901 so i mean as you all is you all absorb it here and you're a financial guy so i trust you more is there a strategy now that i don't trust politicians that's for sure and you know you know asia very well is this you know. cold war 2.0 against trying it is a risk rather g. that you see that you can delineate all. throughout history all over the world when things go bad politicians blame the foreigners they always blame to far as they have different skin and different languages different religion different food they smell bad food smells bad everybody loves to blame the forests and that's what's happening now china is the most prominent of the farmers and the most successful so we're blaming the foreigners i mean it is

a total absurdity if you ask me we should be working together to bring prosperity to everybody but that's why i'm not a politician i guess. that engender so many responses for me but i can't do it on this program i'm going to go to you you know. jim really puts it really very squarely i think here i mean for 1st of all the u.s. and many of its allies are not coming through this pandemic very well we would show that they were unprepared and particularly in the united states and in the end this is not to attack any particular politician that's not my point here i point is is that the globalization reveals what globalization has done for the chinese to globalization and build an economy in the united states in the in the western world created financial ation be financial ization of the economy very different approaches to globalization overall one player makes stuff in exports so that

people want and the other one well displacement funny money all the time and this is something that no one really wants to talk about in the west because it is not to do they would benefit actually it's very much to their serious disadvantage. thank you and 1st time jim thanks for not wearing a bow tie i thought i was going to be on but to bow tie actually not ask and be the odd guy out clearly what we've seen is a massive change over the last 20 years i grew up right outside of when wash a nice a as a boy and i remember when china was not. much different than north korea was for us today it was a forbidden by so my mom telling me you know each appease the chinese children are starving well i want to measure them too long because i didn't want to hear them but you fast forward to 40 years and china has risen up as mouse said and 949 s. and the gate of a campus where the chinese citizens of stood up and clearly they have more people

have risen up out of poverty over the last 40 years than the united states has a speech. so when jim talks about it as it's not a politician i've kind of ebb and flow and government and private and nonprofit world. blame has always been a part of americans playbook and certainly blaming people as he pointed out the difference that us as what we need to do in my a summation is change the paradigm around and when people start pointing the finger at other people the american people have to ask how does blame help that hasn't restore there for a while and how does it help get them back to work and if you think you're just going to decouple from china and that's the end of the game i think you got another thing coming when given the same would be a couple of years living it's very important i think the understand the need your response i mean we saw the supply chains particularly in the medical sector in the

united states wanting roughly one thing in many ways been decoupling well there is a decoupling going on but it's not being really reported there or at all in the media this asian countries are really need to decouple from the united states not from china ok and that is something that is a trend that is growing before this pandemic that was going on now we will see people will look at the data comes out but you know this mantra of you know we have cut ourselves off from him in the form from china it went you know that again is. well politicians knocking on of their sleeves and that's what i told them to meet but you know i don't see who want to be the titans of business are going to be leaving china anytime soon because well that's where they make money ok so i mean this will end up being a 00 issue or an internal issue 19 states because out there were years of. investing in the chinese market i don't see a problem and i don't see them coming back anytime soon unless you want to start

now one is the news we go ahead. peter trade wars have never worked for anybody nobody has ever want to trade world where there's t. coupling our tariffs are you any way you want to put it mr trump either doesn't know history or well he actually thinks he's smarter than history he doesn't care about history he has it in his brain and his friends around him all think the trade wars are good and that bashing the chinese i mean various people in the republican party have made it very clear dish selection is going to be run on bash in china and that's what they're of out doing they look around and say we how we're going to win this election the easy way is to i think is to bash china is it good for america no of course not we should all be trading together you know america by it's a lot from china china buys a lot from america the chinese are ahead of us in some technology but we're ahead

and others we should be working together the idea that we're going to decouple and say to the chinese we want trade with you how does that help america how does that help anybody how does that help china maybe a few more americans will get a job for a while but there are 325000000 americans who are all going to have to pay much higher prices for everything so we want to start buying our shirts from illinois i don't think so they'll be more expensive than they probably won't be as good. then you would think that these jobs are coming back to the united states i mean that would be the political rhetoric but what you will see is automation and the robots back in the american factory charlie are going to say. and surgical gowns and other medical quip and kind of be in order or i'm sure i don't think the rouge plant the ford motor company that i worked my way through college in here in detroit is going

to come back and there's going to be 100000 people with strong backs and not much think because your job is to tighten that not going to happen if those jobs do come back in our search coming back to automation to robots and not those $3540.00 an hour high. low skilled jobs here in the united states are exactly right but even if well maybe if they come back with robots yes but normally america's not a cheap place official place to do business to manufacture the products will be much higher price than they would be if they're made somewhere i mean this is economics which is going around for a 1000 years we all know that such as comparative advantage and that's the way the world works sure we can all buy expensive forwards again that breakdown for our not to do that i would for america's do the things that you know good and let the

chinese and other people do the things they're good at you know the time to be the timing of this is quite. bizarre because you know you have well we don't know all the details because we don't have all the economic data yet but i mean i think it's very very to say that the u.s. economy is in deep recession right now it's not depressed depending on i guess a great depression i think is this is clearly i am not an american because we don't have those numbers yet but i mean it looks like it's moving in that direction. and so we the powers that be it leaves the good part of they want to go on this you know new cold war with china when the u.s. economy is on its back you know these people have any common sense i guess that's a rhetorical i'm going to is i think it's going to go ahead and i think it's really a 6 month strategy and this is until november 3rd i think is election day strategy this is and i watched it here in michigan a very pointed out this china has always made it the bogeyman certainly one of the

action time comes up and certainly in the industrial midwest here in the state of michigan which has seen a lot of its manufacturing days and keep in mind that in this election it's really going to be a few states that are combat it is going to be a wisconsin then and michigan and pennsylvania which earlier point you there and so let me assure you the bumper sticker shipped jobs to china is going to resonate a whole lot more than anybody giving economic theory or geopolitical theories about ways i think that we should engage with china my hope is that it's only a 6 month strategy and either because the american people make a different choice and hence we have different policies on or shirt after the election there's going to have to be some sort of hit because the path we're on right now seems mutually destructive and in my estimation you know tom appear to be

sure to understand that what what sit there is not election in america in november and everything is consumed by that election they don't care about you are me or my kids or tom's kids they care about winning that election no matter what it takes when i get it here why do i care to try to get that ruining the country from my kid they're already you from me they're running from me because it's a political issue tom they're willing to go down this the bruin is they seem to make some kind of a low point. it is. it is and it's frightening to me i mean what i would have loved to have seeing is this pandemic start up and you know right after we signed the quote phase one trade deal with china which to me was more transactional than transformative but what i would have lost to a scene with real leadership is rather than plan c. small game we're going in country has to be down for the other one to be up. imagine if rather than where the pats were on it if she didn't thing and donald

trump but it's not all the world together let's find a way to address this pandemic this health care crisis in the economic tsunami that it's on leaks imagine if we were sitting down not trying to find a 0 sum game of politics that is i think it's tip o'neill said all politics are local and you're seeing this nationalism politics play out not only in the united states but also was shaky and china because it's all very counterproductive gentlemen or i'm going to jump in here we go to a short break i'm out of the natural bridge we'll continue our discussion on the new cold war going strong states are. part of something is better than 100 percent of nothing and so losing money is part

of the money laundering model as a model of business model and we look at these unicorns the startups and silicon valley like the ones you managed and we work the way fair goober if we were left there all losing money exponentially so many after the aster's well maybe the model is to lose money and so who is laundering the money who is laundering the money. problem drugs don't always come from unscrupulous dealers but from pharmacies to every state in the united states we've seen a very sharp increase in the number of people seeking treatment for addiction to prescription opioids it invaded america under the banner of medicine persisted with the pain but instead of trying to. when i'm off though she just goes after dose after dose after those and really became his drug dealer so who's to blame patients

doctors manufacturers or the government. or. well the map across not where all things are considered i'm here about to remind you we're discussing china. ok when we go back there in german singapore it's kind of pradhan out the discussion here let's ask let me ask some very simple questions number one is china a military threat to the united states. not at the moment how i don't think america

has enough nuclear bombs they could blow up every city in china if they had to so i doubt seriously if in 2020 china is a military threat to the us your might be someday but not today we're not time that know that's one of the things that's being you know that's one of the solutions to the problem which you make is just so counterproductive in comparison and especially on the 1st of the program we have you know we have the meeting arms control official of the united states saying that if necessary we can we can spend them into oblivion i mean if you think that this is just mind boggling here i mean oh i agree the united states and china are competitors they may be adversary ok it has certainly not a of a reason if you are not contemplating military action because it seems to me that military action is at the very end of the spectrum if you feel definitely threatened we're nowhere close to that right now but it seems that's one of the 1st

positions they jump to is how can we tarry do what the chinese. now there's really been economic bombs that have been dropped and as jim is pointed out this is all about a 6 month strategy for the next to the next 6 months although everything about election you know remember after 911 toby keith the country music singer you know courtesy of the red white and blow it up in your ass it's the american way we tend to. default to that and that lame strategy again going to war with a 2nd heart just world economy going to war with 161. of the world's humanity seems absolutely ludicrous to me but it may be just enough to get enough votes to keep a particular person in power for 4 more years one of the things that you know being

doesn't have to worry about isn't what he's a president leader for life. you know i want to ask you what is the threat i mean i know. i well i know you you know i have to say mass i don't see a threat i mean it literally trying to surrounded by military bases that china is surrounded by a myriad of alliances that the united states is involved in that is gets very complicated could get out of control one mistake and we could have august like the 4th you know and that's why i think that you know these alliances create more security threats than they leave the 8 ok but that may be a topic for another another program here but you know one of the things i find very fascinating being a trained historian want to address this the both of you is that weird assist him to discount from it seems to me is that you know for the western domination even when gemini of the world is it is about a 500 year times 5 years and and what

a lot of people fail to remember they don't leave they doing these colonizers they don't go out looking. for free gold or silver they went out and proselytize they want to bring christianity in the world at the very end at the very basis that say it's a missionary messianic impetus here well to. the west is largely christian ok but that if this is still there then we must we must bring our values to others because we know better they jumped and it's such a mind it is almost impossible to confront because it is a it has a messianic religious tenets to it and look out the the treatment of china is in the present china must be brought to heel do you feel ok i mean look this deconstruct back to language ok i mean it's very oriental this view of the rest of

the world go ahead to the middle east has experienced the last steps and let's point out. well mornings i think to look at is the something where connect is that you know i remember my 1st trip to china and 89 walking down a building on a bun and shanghai and seeing a map of the world from a chinese perspective because up until that point every map of the globe i saw united states was dead center of my i had to rub my eyes i bought one of those maps to remind me that not everybody sees the world from our own perspective tremendous eyeopener for me as a young guy in his thirty's my 1st trip to china that happened or inside i would tenements where i'm so i think that we need to take a broader view the world and understand some of that history that that you were talking about it or feel when you did it every every every country does this the

french did it's a spanish did you you said before we were going to save the world from christianity the russians did it the russians are going to save the world from mr marx i mean nobody will know what is a marxist anymore they all want to be rich but you know this is the way human beings have worked for thousands of years we are better than they are and they should do what we say well i mean museum i mean maybe have nuclear weapons maybe that's got the difference i'm saying you know what i'm what i'm saying this is a lousy and i'm and my viewers not understand so i'm still with jim on this when you're i mean you get closer to home as americans this is this american exceptionalism that i'm talking about and even questioning that you know you're been thrown out of the church as it were ok you can't you can't say that well you actually shouldn't say it because american exceptionalism has its practice now and

has been practiced for decades it is against the national interest of the country and various people it's people are right in. again you know when you vote your letter focusing only once a fair game here but when that election's over and it was endemic has been stamped out look at the records left behind and you want to start a trade war with china i mean wow what that's right here great ideas is the use of doing. america is exceptional where the largest debtor nation in the history of the world the debts of skyrocketing every day i mean we were but 2 months ago 6 months ago our debts for copper has and the last month or 2 they've added another few trillion trillion with a t. to the american debt yeah that's exceptionalism no way to get in her district her. you guys got into this situation has gotten out without a probably didn't use the crisis where you want to if you want to add to it you

want to have it you want the adversary the new enemy to buy your t. bills so you can pay your debt and i think i mean yeah make up ok even if they want you to buy the debt but you're the enemy ok that's an exceptional interesting situation go ahead tom you want to jump in i'm going absolutely i mean that's a that's a point that i was going to make is that who's going to buy our debt that we continue to rack up a lot of this you to me and never president trump in a master of as is getting the american people to cheat chase the next over what we should be really doing in america is looking more and addition and multiplication as opposed to division and traction and what i mean by that is we need to begin to invest in the american people when i go to china and use we chat i don't have to touch her and say i can we chat anything and everything when i can get on a bullet train and go from beijing to shanghai which used to be a center or in our train trip and now i can do in a few hours china has begun to sebastian we need is investing in

education and infrastructure. and workforce training and retraining so that as the kids that are now 30 years old work in a factory those jobs are not going to be there in the future and they're not going to pay a livable wage you know what's wrong and chill america begins to quit pointing to the other guy and begins to invest in the american people in the american economy we're going to continue to have this this false choice in front and it's very sad in trouble they didn't think jim you know going to be again really even reading the mainstream press where there are not a lot very many intelligent people you know that the pentagon needs more money for its you know to finish the pivot to asia you know it's always welfare for the military industrial complex but not is always going on here you know in this. conflict so in this sphere right now it's who's going to be best in r. and d.

and that's that is this is this is well defined this adversarial conflict and now it's almost nobody in washington seems to get it ok well unfortunately the next story is going to be you know on the internet or with with electronics yes somebody's got some troops are going to have to go and explain you know whoever wins but know that the generals fight the last war happening throughout history the next story is going to be electronic and unfortunately for us as americans that china turns out something like 10 or 20 times as many engineers every year as we do in america a lot of the my bad engineers i'm sure but some of them are very good you heard of ali baba you've heard of by doing your part of you know 10 cent i mean some of those engineers a good and some of them are sitting in your are just figuring out how to ruin america. when you hit it we can add to that tom

a lot of the engineers in the general produced in the united states are foreign born i just would like to point that out to it's true you have a player there's a good cartoon that goes out that says americans always want to see a market strong in math and science and then they showed a picture and the picture shows american children indian and chinese descent they're performing very well in those areas and that is exactly the the point is that china doesn't have to get it right for all of its people with 1.51.6000000000 people they don't have to get it right for all they say get it right or sum up in education is really going to be the future so you have an american university likely today. is a future president a later. one of the message that those individuals are hearing and seeing what kind of relationships are they don't. between the most important bilateral

relationship in the world today when you think about it every major world issue. it's going to intersect at the corner of beijing and washington d.c. so how our respective leaders whether it's our current leaders or future dealing with these issues are going to impact the china of people of the united states and for that matter all of humanity that's why the stakes are so bloody ah. let me let me give you the last 20 seconds here because unfortunately you know the way of the west the u.s. is constructed as every 4 years but thomas absolutely right it's the horizon's bunch of 20 seconds go ahead my daughter just came back from china every 5th grader in china spends one hour per day on coding i live in singapore we don't even do coding and staying up for much less than iowa why now would per day for 10 year olds i think that is the best way to end this program because it shows the difference the earth and who's creating a buyable future and who is not ok i want to thank my guests in the norvelt and in

singapore and i want to thank our viewers for watching us your r.t.c. next time remember. every single culture on earth has prohibitions against care. at the same time virtually every culture of the earth will reward you enormously if he was killed the right person one stating it is the most horrendous down rushing single match in the world and in the other setting his little one thing that they will give you a medal for their people who both through because of that the people will meet with you because you're good at it to bring that sort of say.

idea. give me too much me to cope with this time we said. just that. there's not one time i'm old but i'm also the most companies you know so i've been a good who says you to please not emotional when i meet with. those companies he most people and most people you know he goes from didn't you know just to see he's just put you through i called. someone number in the head of the notion that you see him a little you i don't know you kind of these people will. look at is the. thing they do in the medical but i don't tell you in this to you know money so to you in. a moment.

this is the one business show you can't afford to miss in washington. the e.c.b. is forecasting a major hit to the euro zone economy due to the cope at night outbreak and this comes as the european union is eyeing a major stimulus package to save the region's economy and a bit coronavirus continues to pound brazil as the latin american giant is now the new epicenter of the virus we break down the toll the disease is taking there and around the globe and later. too.