you cannot be both with the yeah you're right. a low end welcome the cross not we're all things are considered on here level counting the cost and charting the future when the pandemic appearing to recede it is time to assess the economic damage how has the crisis changed the global economy and if there's going to be a recovery well crime will be and are there lessons to be learned.

rostock in the global economy i'm joined now by u.s. and lee in new york she is author of well china's economy collapse and what the u.s. can learn from china and in ankara we crossed the road. he is a professor of econometrics as well as the president of the foundation for international economic research and. crossed out rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate what you're going to and in new york as i said in my introduction and it appears that the pandemic is receding and globally although individual countries still have some serious issues but now is coming in the next phase of this crisis and figuring out the damage that has been incurred and how to move forward and you know in preparing for this program there are all wild estimations out there you know the elbe the you all of that. there seems to be no consensus so there seems to be. it seems to be politically driven

depending on how much you cut it 11 letter 3 here what is your thinking here because the terrain is changed a lot and even if when things start opening up a lot of people are very hesitant to spend because no one knows what the recovery is going to look like it's kind of a self-referential issue for him yes i think there's also no agreement as to what indicators are important to look at. inter member whether this is going to be an l.d.r. you there are folks who point to the stock market. and they basically say oh you know since it's rocketing that means that things are looking well people don't realize that the financial markets now are very much decoupled from the real economy because. we know that as more money gets in best and in various corporations that means it is going to be. fewer people actually

going to get employed because these investments are going into technology into robotics into artificial intelligence and so yes maybe individual corporations might do better coming out of this crisis but for the average person they're going to be even faced maybe they're facing weaker prospects going forward and so i think that that's clearly one area of disagreement. i think that there are so many variables there that makes it very difficult to. come to any. sort of consensus in terms of what it's going to look like because a lot of countries are going to have various policies. in terms of what they're going to roll out and that's going to have different effects and so what we're going to see in china i'm sure is going to be very different from what we'll see in

the u.s. and that is why it's going to be very difficult to do you know one of the interesting things if and didn't use the word that there's a good there are elements of protectionism that have to be thought about here these people are really i thinking about borders in a way that they haven't for a very long time and that's certainly one pretty negative critique of globalization one of the things that really worries me is that 1st of all we had 200-2009 millions and millions tens of millions of people around the world particularly in the western world never recovered from that tragedy and now we have this one and this is oh in totally different magnitude from a bottom up not the top down and it particularly the case i know best is the american case we have another massive shift of wealth to the wealthiest ok and the one of the issues that imo. concern with this growing inequality and it was pretty bad before this happened and now it is rated at

a speed that is and i'm going to have to agree with dan i mean there are so many indicators out there it's hard to understand what that magnitude is but i think it's pretty fair to say that it is. order of magnitude greater than it was in 2100 we dress that go ahead. then the latest aircraft they have never. changed but let's start with i'll probably really. because we are making him stink by looking at their financial indicators on the line talking about the real difference of. the global economy. so far as ansett the financial war popular as you know become people from the real economy but the point is. as you mention there is going to be. radical structural changes in teams that are working specifically in terms of the group of decision something with my 980 s.

peter. who runs asian has expanded and. has you know become killing only closer and closer integration among the economies. as we call it for now i mean our i see a new mode of globalization. if you like a lot to say short of globalization by shortly after claiming that it by short globalization i mean there from our war specifically says there is this in our broken lives which is you know in the lives side of the economy and some mayors will start looking at more than a local local part of global you know like you know turkey's going to look for some place in russia you know we are in european union instead of looking for someplace in china and united states. because of since as i said

there's something within 1800. patients has been based or export and then that's. crucial you know between 1960 s. and the 1980 s. look at that in the physician was. substitution there you know the 1980 s. it has become a sport oriented things are says asians so much for all now to be from pollute more of it and then change the sex of the investor is the sex of the economies has to be on all of those have to be now all. these you know of some of the. spending on how things are going to hear a lot from our source is be ahead now that you know as. well we have local economies now we need to get international partners point now is the question is when we are going to get is part was the supply. that's what i'm calling short

local station here in the same way you told your answers if it could be much more regionalized ok if you into my life but i'm not meaning you know by you know i'm not talking about the last day again ok i'm not talking about regional unions economic unions i'm just walking about regional economic relations marts much more closer originally come into the mix look at china who is going to go to china. and one of the things i've been thinking a lot about since this crisis started and i'm a very harsh critic of most elements of globalization i make a very clear to my viewers that it seems to me that in the west globalization took on the form of financial ization with a country like china actually made real things real economy seats a globalization a real economy versus if the globalization of any actual ization and i think that that is going to cost will we see it right now

a lot of tensions because they're very different interpretations of how you benefit from globalization go ahead yes i would say that the way the u.s. has act just go. was a show that was really about. wishing their corporate profits around the world and in the countries that invited us corporations in that they clearly saw their people benefit from it because there was no real investment in their infrastructure and. then until china came along. you know globalization was such that it was really a one way street to the us once china came along and suddenly you saw a lot of profitability around the world. where local economies got to benefit and grow and. and so the pie was actually getting larger

and so. i would say that in this case after this crisis is over i don't agree i think that there is going to be a fracturing of supply chain because of political reasons and if that the u.s. clearly wants to go its own way there are 80 you know pressuring companies to bring back their productions locally. i mean i think you know i have i think we just have to be realistic i mean that horse left the barn 20 years ago ok i understand the rhetoric and i understand the political impetus behind it but realistically speaking that is like a stalin 5 year plan a harsh one ok i mean it doesn't work that way in the west ok well maybe out of this crisis will work that way in the u.s. i don't know you know i'm just saying is that you know intellectually you understand that in because but the reality on the ground i don't see what it what

is the u.s. government going to do to both force under sanction of american companies investing abroad i mean you know again you know could listen to the senate floor it also is a patriot. taken the flag and every the music's playing but at the end of the day sheryl you say whoa really going right i think it's really under realistic it's hard for any. realistic economist to to see how this develops because the supply chains are very complex so. just to make something very simple like shoes lot of the companies that used to make it in china like moved it down to be a nom because you know they wanted to access cheaper labor then now they've left vietnam and went to western china because they discovered that importing is a rubber from you know malaysia or cambodia you know was difficult unless they

ordered large amounts trying to get the number of people to make the shoes. you know they would strike if they didn't get she raises so they discover that there are so many other issues when they try to move their operations out of china and so they discovered that the station sees complexities you know made more sense to stay in there and this multiplies 10 times a 1000 times more when you're talking about say electronic goods you know an apple i phone steve i mean tim cook has very much sense that it's not possible to do it any other place other than china and so because of all these companies that feed into the supply chain is the u.s. is going to try to make their cars just in the u.s. like good luck because you have. all the right where we should be laughing because this is it a real crisis you've been you're absolutely right i mean you've already laid out

very clearly becomes like city building shoes what about you know a car a computer a smart phone you're absolutely right it's go back to any group before you go to the break years i mean is that really kind of been to with some of the the well. what you're calling a short globalization going to finger to as a. new government that would send their you know. how when you get all the world you know change your monkey. no. you bought the chains you know there are small jeans and useful chains and you come on each campsie. one of those you know will change jeans when the great jimmy is me before or before the me he had very very long soaking but now we are going. through local chains you know you know kind of i have to i have to jump in here we're going to go to we're short break and after that are over continue our discussion on the global economy and the recovery stage are.

we go to work so you straight home. has changed american lives but pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. based drugs talk to people who are chronic pain patients and believe that their prescription is working for them on the remedy be set to.

price that they paid closer dependency and addiction to opiates the long term use that really isn't scientifically justified and i'll study actually suggested that. the long term effects may not just be the absence of benefit but actually that they may because we want to. welcome out across the uk we're all things are considered i'm here alone to remind you we're talking about the global economy and the recovery. and want to go back to you. it's going to focus on the u.s.

china. show because that's really what it is your own. home. if you put you positive the question that you know because of the way the supply chains are right now and i kind of reacted to it it's going to be very difficult to chase and change that arrangement of decoupling is possible i mean if that but honestly. you monk is economic decision to make because these are not just state actors these are private actors or shareholders they're at them sooners and all of this i mean do you see this kind of just as a 2020 november general election issue to get past all of this because the reaction in the united states it was far from perfect and i'm being very generous right now with the couple lee that is a tremendous pass to go down and i don't think people after what you just said to us about shoes and then you know about i phones you think they owe it to sions and

business leaders understand the magnitude of making that decision i think that the politicians and certain policy makers in washington. mander stand it but they don't care and the reason is this they see this competition to china as a big national security issue because they're so worried about china eclipsing the u.s. in economic and political power around the world and they look at the situation in the u.s. and think there's no way they're going to be able to compete with china has a population that is you know 3 times larger or times larger and they. don't have you know the u.s. doesn't produce the same number of engineers that china does and so they think that the only way that they can stop china's rise and n. maintain its superpower status is by trying to throw really radical

policies there to disrupt. all and shueisha in and out forcibly probably you know create a depression like situation because then nobody can grow and therefore the u.s. will still maintain its economic leverage in that case what one might look at that with the kind of disruption in pretty clearly clearly where the u.s. economy is in a deep recession ok what is going to happen the next year quarters is anyone's guess but i think as we speak right now there is a deep recession here and we in the unemployment numbers tell you everything you need to know but i mean that is that from what you're saying that just spikes ok if we can't be number one we can't be prosperous the way we were reporting this pandemic nobody will be i mean if that is the law that's a bully approach that's not looking for answers the browser's go back to angry here

i mean it is sort of like the poet and have to say here i mean. this is this means that the lead salut west particularly the 9 states not understand that the it's not military power this is going to solve problems it's a country that's best that are in deep ok that is this revolution they're experiencing in the global economy right now and as i said there's financial ization there is really going to be a development of globalization and i'll whoever is going to do the bull by the horns the research and development is going to be the one is going to be supreme and maybe even use the word hedge a monic if you want go ahead and you. think not doesn't happen. and hasn't hurt me is you know in this sort of thing that has been said many times that he has not even be productive with you who you know. for you know for her. behavior. the focus

of what in the long run is. you know who you beagles chinese the vertical living don't mean resonance in the mini. the u.s. and invest in economies in general i think the short run we have to take into grant that you know one 4th of all g.d.p. by the united states and another one for. p.v. and approximately one for the chinese you know she's about turkey per cent so in the miniature. economy i'm announces that hands off the united states and the rest so. if you are going to talk about how his you know thought our. economy before. you know us is according to me is more advantages that it's very well and get it it seems to me and when we go to you.

this rhetoric is coming out of washington i mean correct me if i'm wrong here but if this is the assumption that if the united states feels that believes that china needs the u.s. more than the u.s. needs china i mean i think that's a that's a that's not to take that's not absolutely true and certainly not clear i mean again if the u.s. is always talking about global norms ok but it's only the norms of a hero to everyone else's house doing it here to their interpretation i mean isn't that a risky proposition that they need us more than we need them go ahead. yeah i remember reading somewhere that when the u.s. think tanks try to do an inventory like how many things have chinese parts and you know obviously are imported from china and it was so high that they actually could not publish it and has kept that you know a state secret because i just assumed that you know it's nice i saw the same thing

and it had actually to do very specifically with the defense department and how. many of the supply chains of their own equipment that they buy from producers american quote unquote it's all outsourced everywhere else i mean there is some of these weapons systems their percentage of the parts and components are like 708090 percent out sourced from abroad ok i think we're on the same wavelength here i mean we're making my point right here you could make that snap decision but then you could be left holding the bag for a very long time and that in itself is a national security risk as they would see it right and so therefore if they say that. china needs seen us more than us needs china. i think that again it's probably rather it because they haven't backed it up with very specific

examples if you just talk about import export numbers that really doesn't tell the whole story and i think that. you know the election year could be playing into this rhetoric but if the u.s. really is serious about trying to stop you know the trajectory of china's growth. you know they're going to end up hurting the u.s. economy in the baby as well and i think some of the elites have made this calculation and said well. that's fine because we still dominate in the financial sector we still dominate in. the internet technology like cyber security and so forth. and so they probably feel that in specific areas that are important and strategic in terms of.

media and financial control and so forth that maybe they still hold the cards and it's possible they still think that because the wrong certainly is still relying on the u.s. dollar to a great extent as a world reserve currency and so the u.s. continues to sanctions as a way to. you know bend countries to their will and and so i think that they're probably looking at it from that standpoint. as to the rest of the car a lot about it too and i think it is such a grave mistake to the use the dollar is a political weapon because all you do is devalue the dollar i mean they be our currency but i define it as something that you everyone universally house trusts in but it's starting to if you start manipulating it serves very specific and selfish political ends then people are going to me we received a dollar is a shit going on all the time it's not happening quickly i agree but more and more countries are exchanging goods in their own currencies and it is because the

perception that they don't want to be suddenly sanctioned by the united states for the last time i'd. remember a country that forced other countries to trade with the soviet union and now the united states is saying who you can trade with who you can be friends with here is go back to angry here a lot of people are saying that it becomes bling is inevitable and a pain to our discussion with and we've all agreed that a sudden decoupling would be disastrous for everybody for the global economy it's just mindlessly stupid to think well in the longer term you'll have to internet you'll have to our operating systems and essentially don't be asking enjoying one of the other ok i do see that that's a possibility in the mid-term and long term but how we get there will be very messy to say the least keep going on a. first before i guess we are making him sleep. talking about just the.

u.k. in terms of. giving. now linkage is impossible. but on the other hand if you are not going to be able to solve. it is if you do not have demand than there's no point in. what we are picturing meaning by this looming out of the us and the quest for this for sure for sure. is. the u.s. economy and the. western economies if they. just said you can the size of the man the man you know who purchasing power would say and that's the best you know we have we have to keep that money but i i partly agree with you that you know in the near term people want to service the number of firms to suffer. loss of goods and services that are changed that will be less and less so you know

his particular that we've been sort of you know sort of a couple in here trucked. i'm. appalled that both of these the you know me global markets we are. seeing less and less than $1000000.00 or more mobile phones the hours. and last 30 seconds to you i think though that point we just heard is absolutely amazing it will be more a monopolistic and will be more expensive and less choices for consumers this path that the u.s. is going on it is a bad one for world trade going. right i think what we're seeing inside the u.s. is going to. collaborate around the world and the u.s. is that it's the middle class is disappearing so what one percent is getting much wealthier and it's becoming like a economy that's about 300 years we're going into

a new colonialism in which you have a super wealthy and then poor people everywhere that's right there is a great word for it and it's called serfdom the return of serfdom. many thanks to my guest in new york and america and i want to make our viewers for watching us here in our d.c. annex not remember us are. thinking of getting a new puppy once we got in here she. said you know it's still trapped in this tiny little wired people who use a crate with the wall. freaking out in the wall when it's pretty much anywhere near . breeding dogs or caged in the interview lane conditions on puppy i mean 67 years you know they've been locked up in cages outside you see no protection from the

weather the heat you know the courtier the rain the snow the funder nothing they have no protection. because you. it's ok. to cross the u.s. cruel puppy mills are supported by dog shows and pet stores most of the puppies that are coming from this large scale factory farming kind of operations are being sold in stores even joined a group businesses are involved like called them santa there has been a shocking amount of the organized opposition to efforts to increase the standards of care for dogs bred in commercial breeding facilities most of that opposition is coming from huge agricultural groups and industries that have nothing to do with jobs don't buy dog. all no t. . shirts. action

. well it's true no 1st. point should your thirst for action. max kaiser this is the kaiser report. what if i told you that everything you thought you knew about that will be the matrix is wrong. max in the past week i was very surprised to learn that being red pill is now considered a racist all right and some of the worst things on earth he could possibly say and america.