ok let's start with an initial clinton virus policy herd immunity it was the most down point. of them all coming up in today's going underground a 1st in the next 48 hours their chosen a police officer charged with the murder of george floyd who sparked a global protest will make his 1st court appearance in minneapolis but what can charging a handful of police officers really do when u.s. authorities have responded to protest with the factor martial law by tear gas rubber bullets and armored vehicles joining me now by skype from nashville in the united states davidic a professor of african-american and the asper studies at vanderbilt university david thanks so much for coming on i'm going to ask you actually the other day the new york times published a call for military intervention it was written by a senator from arkansas tom cotton a call for overwhelming force and the use of the insurrection act which of course would mandate federal military troops across the united states i saw that piece and like most americans are not and i think this cuts across racial lines

was was utterly appalled donald trump playbook 'd is one of divisiveness one that plays to the racial. legacies that has long the united states and really to this whole discourse underground or maybe not even so underground discourse of white supremacy he completely denies that saying that actually he is being that arrest for people of color it is it's baffling in a in a certain kind of sense because there was a piece in the feel like it was the washington post about the ways in which. donald trump will say something. you know say something in one moment that's caught on camera and literally turned around and the night that he said it in the next it would be laughable and bizarre if it wasn't so utterly dangerous ok well you're in republican national convention territory there in nash. well joe biden after all is

the presidential candidate for the democrats in november i mean what do you think about him making political capital whilst being known arguably around the world for mass incarceration of african-americans an opposing desegregation i think a lot of times african-americans are stuck. in situations where you have to make the best choice but in the given field i think what we have and by like we have been a lot of politicians is an imperfect politician but when you consider the alternative biden it's by far. the better candidate to engage with with these issues and at the very least to stop the bleeding we would not be facing. tanks and tear gas if we had say for example hillary clinton in the white house right it doesn't mean that

these folks don't have deeply problematic legacies as we know with hillary clinton's famous. you know quote about bringing people you know these super predators to heel we know that and biden has many many have said many things that are deeply problematic i mean in saying in africa obama is known for destroying africa's richest per capita country i mean i'm sure about libya there and as far as i know donald trump doesn't launch any wars on nations of people predominantly have a home why is it these participated certainly in the perpetuation of white supremacy in the united states when there were white supremacy nazis rioting in virginia over the confederate minute minute he said there were good people on both sides but it was. when the other side was clearly

a group of nazi whites of premise hate crimes have exploded it was not too long ago that donald trump was was was was calling african countries all countries so you know when you start this kind of but there must be a difference between words and bombs from obama's era planes falling on these countries you know that's i mean i think of some ways that that's the republican playbook right instead of talking about the realities of the current administration the impulse is to try to retain their rate presidency of obama as a way to distract from the utter like corruption of the current administration obama was that impeached obama wasn't you know a perpetual liar other people have doubts about that impeachment as you know well

over here we had rudy giuliani the former mayor of new york trump advisor now claiming that this is all a left wing conspiracy about george floyd and no one is covering the death of a retired police officer in st louis rudy giuliani was one of the orchestrators of stop and frisks frisk campaign in new york city which has now been proven to be unconstitutional because it clearly targeted black and brown people. so when you invoke rudy giuliani as your as your source of insight i find that to be deeply deeply flawed he'll definitely deny that what is the role of police and that's what you know i'm sure that's exactly what you do well what is the role of police today in the united states because i mean many so-called liberal cities like minneapolis. de blasio has new york $5000000000.00 budget on police in oakland half

its money and its budget spent on police even in these supposedly progressive cities police seems to be the number $1.00 priority often stated as why is it given so much more priority than i don't know homelessness and. how that on or about that excellent that's an excellent question the mayor of l.a. just announced that a significant portion of the budget that was going to police officers is now going to be redirected into certain communities of color to support these very kinds of efforts now i would say that is a good starting point but i think part of what has happened is over the course of the years there has been an increase in the political rhetoric around safety and around. crime which as this part of the larger prison industrial complex right you ramp up this this kind of idea that everybody is

unsafe and we need more policing because there's such a huge threat and of course police unions and such benefit from that and the coffers start to feel right and what we what we know is that crime in the last 10 years has actually precipitous lee gone down but you would not know that based on the political rhetoric and the hype around criminality that persist so it makes it very so any politician whether you're on the right or the left that invokes a certain kind of reference for the police or reverence for increasing security actually built up a lot of points right so it becomes very difficult it becomes very difficult to argue yet those types of funding for those departments when they now have so much not only presence and power but now because of all of this money that's flowing into their coffee. they also have

a lot of lobbying power so that part of what you're seeing police as i understand it were created in the south to track down runaway slaves as it is a time now to hand the police i think what we need is radical reform i don't think you can expect to change any of these kinds of dynamics of violence in the policing system if you don't have levels of accountability studies have shown that many white lease officers have of more racist and racial insensitivity issues than the general white. population we see that it's almost impossible to convict. police officer for the killing of african-americans i think in minnesota that only happened like once and so yeah that the end of the police i think the end of policing as we as we

understand it now i think there needs to be a policing that is accountable to those communities that the police what we know now is that most police officers do not live in the communities that they police so we need to change those those kinds of policies there's no real talk of reparations being paid to black communities that have been systematically underfunded over over generations but one monmouth institute survey claims that of the people that responded 54 percent thought it was possibly justified to burn down a police station that's white and black people being told what exactly is going on in the united states we've heard people to vote martin luther king's statement that by that is the force of the on her i'm sure about now though the world has seen that horrendous video. of what was

a public lynching. and so people are outraged and rightly so little when you can take somebody who is not convicted but who was unarmed acute mind you he will accused of something right that tanian put him in the police car like were he to take his hands up in a police car you take him out of the police car wrestle him to the ground and literally kill him as people around are watching saying and filming saying the guy's dying why don't you get the knee of its neck and literally put your hand in your pocket and literally snuff the life out of him. the fact that there is the type of violence that we see in response to that is it's highly predictable given that the issue is not so much the way in which people are looking at property damage on that is the problem is how is it that we've tolerated this type of violence and destruction of human life not physical property but human life for so

long they want to be in charge as i say and as you know very well many politicians equating human life with property as far as i can understand it and that's true and that's our white supremacy and hopefully people are finally starting to call that out what it is but we're just fizzle out when the well it just has allowed obama and of course black lives matter started under obama obama's rhetoric arguably let it fizzle out likewise matter what's going to happen with these protests are going to has a lot of the black vote matter movement started because a white supremacy police brutality in ferguson. black obama happened to be the president under that particular machine and unlike what is happening today there was actually a conversation about what is going on there was actually engaged minute in terms of what's going on. keep going because you keep bringing. barack obama i will remind

you that when he was and i have written a book that had been very critical of a lot of policies that he did so i am certainly no lo you know i'm not riding for a bombing in a kind of a but fast matter so when he was a senate it illinois he was part of a chief sponsor of appeal to address police brutality that put cameras in cop cars to address issues of racial profiling that proved to be very substantial donald trump yes legacy is of accusing those young black men in in new york in that central park right tragedy of doing something that now we know they did not do a column for the death penalty of these men that is his legacy a legacy of race as profiling in his businesses and al this stuff is well documented i think the question that you asked i think that is a very good question is will will the movement feel so i think there's something that's going on here that we have not seen before and one of those things is

a kind of cross racial participation if you go when you look in places like salt lake city that has a black population of less than 5 percent and they've got major rallies where you are or there is a there was a major rally and crist in new jersey for example there are rallies in maine and some of these rallies are mostly white people mostly middle class white people so you're seeing this is this is not like ferguson this is much this is this has much more reach across racial lines so i think that in and of itself. means that there will be some traction beyond the protests on this at least that is what my hope is professor david take i take care. thank you often a bright stanford university nobel prize winning professor michael leavitt on why the pandemic may be over much sooner than we think and why nationwide lockdowns and

social distancing have nothing to do with it. going on but through going underground. some people have gone this protest across america right now bolshevik revolution time make a reference to the workers uprising that we saw in the old the imperial russia. and you've got a new imperium here in america a lead story can tell you there and the workers suddenly realize that wait a minute we don't want to live under a dictatorship we don't want to live under a monarchy a good old fashioned bolshevik revolution which is what's happening because. according to several sources felisa united states kills from 2 to 4 people simply day. ahead and.

with. one of my being arrested for a response from me and. that is just their little world to establish they developed just us against them it's. a long history of 2525 years as. i had to shoot someone holding it close but. there is a corruption inside of this at least i don't think the culture is.

welcome back the u.s. and the u.k. have been among the country's worst hit by coronavirus with some of the highest death tolls in the world but the trumpet ministration and boris johnson's government have been criticized for acting late but nobel prize winning by a physicist at stanford university professor michael leavitt who accurately predicted apparently the slowdown of coronavirus cases in china believes the nationwide lockdowns imposed were propelled by panic rather than signs he joins me now via skype from tel aviv thank you so much michael for coming on that's the start of 1st principles if we may every day in britain we're told of how the nort numbers signalling the rate of infection basically dictates how society should operate i understand do you claim that our north is the not what we're being told we're out firstly what you're being told is our t.v. or our effect which are not never change they are they're telling you is basically

how at any point in time. one case in fact how many other cases so it does change with time it's not on your toes it's r t or any more effective. i am not a fan of this number because it's actually very very difficult to calculate and it's not a very easy number. the reason is is that basically if you need to. calculate going back a certain number of days usually 7 or even more than that and this means that there's no way to get any information early on in the epidemic i must say i've talked to many epidemiologists and offered to give me their computer programs to cut out are there or they really aren't easy or talk and i prefer a much simpler measure which anybody can understand and that is the ratio of the number of cases today the total number of cases they wrote about the total number

of cases yesterday if you want to ask about new cases new cases involve differences of 2 number of new cases depending the day of the week may depend on your collection procedure so basically this whole fixation on r. is really not a good idea and just so our viewers know you're a pioneering. scientist in molecular dynamics in protein structure itself why would our chief scientist see a medical offices here in london the downing street then tell us that it depends on our north whether we can go out of doors or see our relatives what they really mean is this whether the number of cases are increasing or not and i think that anyone in 2 to 3 would say that if the number of new cases today is less than 100 new cases yesterday we're going to before then we are not growing rep a sickly sorry down and there's been a case in britain for many many weeks now let's just get to the fact that obviously we have more than 60000 that certainly excess death figures may be here and before

boris johnson's top scientific scientific model or neil ferguson left his position he claimed that without social distancing. basically the deaths could be 250000 deaths here in britain in the u.k. he actually actually came out over estimate well i think the difficulty here is that you know. that number was based on various assumptions i got to a different number based on observation without any assumption that sort of what has happened in other locations such as the city of lacan in china the dominant princes cruise ship and they gave numbers that were about 110th the numbers coming out of imperial college the fact remains that we don't have to really speculate switzerland had a rather mild lockdown trains continued people could travel freely sweden has a much milder lock on than anybody the predicted numbers to sweden where around

$60000.00 sweden it looks like it's going to stop at $6000.00 at the most so basically you know you don't have to worry about britain in the usa this myra's really does seem to be limiting it gets to about. $500.00 to a 1000. 1000000 people and it stops and this we have seen in so many places i don't think that's a northern italy practiced wonderful social distancing i don't think the social distancing was practiced wonderfully in new york city what happened was this that this virus is no skin factious and most dangerous before you actually know it's there and that's right if you're an island and you say no one comes into my island that worked for taiwan but if you wait until everyone is to you've had enough cases and everyone's been mixed and then you know it has no effect because everyone who's going to be inspected and to really been infected and that thing will progress so

this is what happened in new york city to get them to various. separation or mistakes i guess about where the subway should keep on running with they should be running more crowded late and the same thing happened in london and you know in some ways it might be a good thing i think that's a really you said you said the policy of herd immunity is the right policy basically we see indications that sweden. so let's you know hand-wringing about that method of trying very very hard to get different areas of sweden saturated what usually happens is that in london i'm sure one is saturated and i'm sure there are some parts of england and you have to kingdom that have not been nearly as hard hit and you know i think what's happening in sweden is that these places that being identified and they're allowed to continue. now when i say that the deaths get up to about 500000000 that's assuming that we are not able to

specifically protect the very people os the deaths are over 85 in or that we were in a very very large sample are something like 160000 excess deaths that we've seen in europe collected in a in a very careful way hot of those deaths of people over 85 and i think that no country has succeeded in having a lot of infection and protecting those people start in some ways the death become a proxy for how much infection you've had i think if one set as a goal to minimize you know you could argue that if it's not government policy would be to. try to minimize the deaths to avoid public outcry but next a micro level of infection and you could have done that by simply that only people wearing protective gear go in and out nobody you know someone messing them to the

other etc it's a very expensive solution and i really don't believe that governments even given this choice would have done it except you could argue that the reason they look down which is a much more expensive solution is because of the public outcry so you could argue that a smart policy would be to protect the elderly not necessarily because you are concerned about protecting somebody who's $85.00 and could easily got a natural death in the next 6 month. but the grizzlies that are counted once the time and they lead to a great deal of public concern protect the death even at a very high cost and then let the inspection get on with itself corona is extremely. kind i would guess to people under $65.00 the normal fraction of death for people under $65.00 is 16 percent coronaviruses a tough that level fell basically you know if you're under $65.00 you have about twice the chance of dying naturally as from

a coronavirus no natural death includes car accidents and so exciting everything else but basically when you're over $85.00 corona is century the same level as the national so maybe maybe government should immediately have 45 care homes as you say disproportionately affected by coronavirus but you do seem to be suggesting then that the lockdown is a complete waste of time that as britain was having exponential growth there should have been no lock down even the swedish chief epidemiologist at his take not says that sweden should have adopted similar strategies to other countries presumably those that implemented a lockdown much on i don't believe that accurate. i would say this you know i think it's pressuring sweden sweden is acting very clearly in a way that keeps the cases going the death of now reached the max and that's the coming down you know i think a lot of what's reported on sweden is wrong sweden is going to saturate with a population fatality ratio between $5.61 the rest of europe

on average is $488.00 per 1000000 i would imagine it written is higher than that i mean belgium is higher than that so it depends and this is for the whole the whole area including places like germany and so on so i don't think that is true i think the important thing is that you know there's a big distinction between lockdown and social distancing social distancing there's a whole row there's a whole range of different measures of social distancing so for example if you do want to stop your country being infected closing the borders you know when you heard about mohan would have worked it probably would have had a cost but i think the problem is is that look down you know just even the name locked down it's not something like in our whole down it's a great shock has a lot of unintended consequences a lot of economic damage crudely huge social damage. schooling damage

deferred medical care damage things we don't even know about and you know it's certainly that receive us suddenly i'm talking about the economic impact on mortality but then all in all you're suggesting that israel australia austria those countries will ultimately be worst hit because they did have strict lock downs and you're also saying we should believe the chinese to distance. the chinese citizens are absolutely fine i mean i looked at them in great detail and discovered that's what happened in china i sighed a cool day is exactly the same dynamics of the kind as what happened in new zealand so you're china is forging things they must have a time machine if they've got a time machine you know they beat nothing any competition any right so it's not even worth thinking about it i mean the credit for new zealand and all of china except when they are super imposable you know i should also say that i say at the

demick is a dynamic object that has a something is changing with time and this is very much in the expertise of human economics simulations all the time dependent phenomena so i seen many of the same issues of how you integrate the equation and so on coming up again and again and again as about the levitt thank you all right thank you very much that's it for the show will be back on monday with george boyd's alleged police but talking uprisings across the western world finally appears in a deal it's called money will come on 52 years a day for the rest of modern judaism assassin james earl ray london's heathrow airport until then what you had to join the underground following up on you tube has a case against graham it's not about. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation

let it be an arms race is often scary dramatic to follow the only closely i'm going to exist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. i know to no crow. no shots no. action just don't speak. well is dr no arrests one. point she your thirst for action. some people are gone this protest across america right now bolshevik press revolution to kind of make

a reference to the workers' uprising that we saw in the old the imperial russia. and you've got a new imperium here in america a lead story canceling their trips and the workers something realize that wait a minute we don't want to live under a dictatorship we don't want to live under a monarchy but some a good old fashioned bolshevik revolution which is what do you really happening coast to coast. let's face it was government official of president i don't have faith in the system cost of god it's all right i'm too liberal the system is not to sign for people like me who move. as bloodlust . different people who are here for different reasons we all see jobs we all saw.

most people in philadelphia. 2 paychecks away from home. george floyd's death. rested in new york. protesters returning home during. the day and. marches and demonstrations are also taking place around the globe in what's being described as the most intense swell of support for the blocked lives mother movement since its inception in $23.00.