now imagine a transit were going underground exactly 76 years since d.-day when u.s. troops landed on the beaches of normandy to fight fascism there are now deployed to fight self-proclaimed anti fascist anti fire on the streets of their own country coming out of the show as u.s. president all jump threatens an occupation of his own country by the u.s. military arguably known around the world for the strong middle eastern african states we ask if the only route to law and order is an end to the police and white nobel prize winning by a this is the answer michael leavitt thinks that boris johnson the government in the u.k.

just stuck to its initial goal in the virus policy herd immunity so is the law. also more coming up in today's going underground 1st in the next 48 hours they're chosen a police officer charged with the murder of george floyd respond to global protest will make his 1st court appearance in minneapolis but what can charging a handful of police officers really do when u.s. authorities have responded to protest with the factor martial law by tear gas rubber bullets and armored vehicles joining me now by skype from nashville in the united states is david a professor of african-american and the asper studies at vanderbilt university david thanks so much for coming on i'm going to ask you actually the other day the new york times published a call for military intervention it was written by a senator from arkansas tom cotton a call for overwhelming force and the use of the insurrection act which of course would mandate federal military troops across the united states i saw that piece and like most americans. i think this cuts across racial lines

were this was utterly a poll done a trance playbook 'd is one of divisiveness one that plays to the racial. legacies that has long player in the united states and really to this whole discourse underground or maybe not even so underground this course of white supremacy where he completely denies that saying that actually he is being that arrest for people of color it is it's baffling in a certain kind of sense because there was a piece in the end nothing like it was the washington post about the ways in which . donald trump will say something. you know say something in one moment that's caught on camera and literally turn around and the nih that he said it in the next it would be laughable and bizarre if it wasn't so utterly dangerous ok well you're in republican national convention territory there in nashville joe

biden after all is the presidential candidate for the democrats in november i mean what do you think about him making political capital whilst being known around the world for mass incarceration of african-americans or opposing desegregation i think a lot of times african-americans are stuck. in situations where you have to make the best choice within a given field i think what we have been by like we have been a lot of politicians is an imperfect politician but when you consider the alternative biden is by far. the better candidate to engage with these issues and at the very least to stop the bleeding we would not be facing. tanks and tear gas if we had say. for example hillary clinton in the white house right it doesn't mean that

these folks don't have deeply problematic legacies as we know with hillary clinton's famous. you know quote about bringing people you know these super predators to heel we know that and biden has many many have said many things that are deeply problematic i mean in saying in africa obama is known for destroying africa's richest per capita country i mean i'm talking about libya there and as far as i know donald trump doesn't launch any wars on nations of people predominantly have a home why is it these participated certainly in the perpetuation of white supremacy in the united states when there were white supremacy nazis rioting in virginia over the confederate monument he said there were good people on both sides when it was when the other side was clearly a group of nazi whites

a premise hate crimes have exploded it was not too long ago that donald trump was was was was calling african countries all countries so you know when you start this kind of but there must be a difference between words and bombs from obama's era planes falling on these countries and that's i mean that that is some ways that that's the republican playbook right instead of talking about the realities of the current administration the impulse is to try to retain their rate presidency of obama as a way to distract from the utter like corruption of the current administration obama what it peached obama wasn't you know a perpetual lie. a lot of people have doubts about that impeachment as you know

well over here we had rudy giuliani the former mayor of new york trump advisor now claiming that this is all a left wing conspiracy about george floyd and no one is covering the death of a retired police officer in st louis rudy giuliani was one of the orchestrators of stop and frisks frisk campaign in new york city which has now been proven to be unconstitutional because it clearly targeted black and brown people ringback. so when you invoke rudy giuliani as your as your source of insight i find that to be deeply deeply flawed he'll definitely deny that what is the role of police and that's what you know i'm sure that's exactly what you do well what is the role of police today in the united states because i mean many so-called liberal cities like minneapolis to blast his new york $5000000000.00 budget on police in oakland half

its money and its budget spent on police even in these supposedly progressive cities police seems to be the number one priority often stated as why is it given so much more priority than i don't know homelessness and. how that on or about that excellent that's an excellent question the mayor of l.a. just announced that a significant portion of the budget that was going to police officers is now going to be redirected into certain communities of color to support these very kinds of efforts now i would say that is a good starting point but i think part of what has happened is over the course of the years there has been and increase in political rhetoric around safety and around. crime which as this part of the larger prison industrial. complex right you ramp up this this kind of idea that everybody is

unsafe and we need more policing because they're such a huge threat and of course police unions and such benefit from that and the coffers start to feel right and what we what we know is that crime in the last 10 years has actually precipitous league gone down but you would not know that based on the political rhetoric and the hype around criminality that persist so it makes it very so any politician whether you're on the right or the left that invokes a certain kind of reference for the police or reverence for increasing security actually built up a lot of points right so it becomes very difficult it becomes very difficult to argue against those types of funding for those departments when they now have so much not only presence and power but now because of all of this money that's flowing into their coffers they also have

a lot of lobbying power so that part of what you're seeing police as i understand they were created in the south to track down runaway slaves as it will is it time now to hand the police i think what we need is radical reform i don't think you can expect to change any of these kinds of dynamics of violence in the policing system if you don't have levels of accountability studies have shown that many white lease officers have more racist and racial insensitivity issues than the general white. population we see that it's almost impossible to convict a police officer for the killing of african-americans i think in minnesota that only happened like once and so. oh yeah that the end of the police i think the

end of policing as we as we understand it now i think there needs to be a policing that is accountable to those communities that the police what we know now is that most police officers do not live in the communities that they policed so we need to change those those kinds of policies there's no real talk of reparations being paid to black communities that have ever been systematically underfunded over over generations but one morning with the institute survey claims that of the people who responded 54 percent thought it was possibly justified to burn down a police station that's white and black people being told what exactly is going on in the united states we've heard people to vote martin luther king's statement that a riot is the force of the un heard i'm sure about no the world has seen that horrendous video of what was

a public lynching. and so people are outraged and rightly so little when you can take somebody who is not convicted but who was unarmed acute mind you he will accuse of something right that tanian put him in the police car like we're here to take his hands up in a police car you take him out of the police car wrestle him to the ground and literally kill him as people around are watching saying and filming saying the guy's dying why don't you get the knee of his neck and literally put your hand in your pocket and literally snuff the life out of him. the fact that there is that type of violence that we see in response to that is it's highly predictable given that the issue is not so much the way in which people are looking at property damage on that is the problem is how is it that we've tolerated this type of.

highlands and destruction of human life not physical property but human life for so long they want to be in charge as i say and as you know very well many politicians equating human life with property as far as i can understand it and that's true and that's our white supremacy and hopefully people are finally starting to call that out what it is but we're just fizzle out when the well it just fizzle out obama and of course black lives matter started under obama obama's rhetoric arguably let it fizzle out likewise matter what's going to happen with these protests are going to fizzle out to the black vote matter movement started because a white supremacy police brutality in ferguson. black obama happened to be the president under that particular machine and unlike what is happening today there was actually a conversation about what is going on there was actually engaged minute in terms of what's going on. keep going because you keep bringing up barack obama i will remind

you that when he was and i have written a book that had been very critical of a lot of policies that he did so i am certainly no lol you know i'm not riding for a bombing in a kind of a but facts matter so when he was a senate it illinois he was part of a chief sponsor of appeal to address police brutality that put cameras in cop cars to address issues of racial profiling that proved to be very substantial donald trump yes legacy is of accusing those young black men in in new york in that central park rape tragedy of doing something that now we know they did not do a column for the death penalty of these men that is his legacy a legacy of racist profiling in his businesses and al this stuff is well documented i think the question that you asked i think that is a very good question is will will the movement feel so i think there's something that's going on here. that we have not seen before and one of those things is

a kind of crouse racial participation if you go when you look in places like salt lake city that has a black population of less than 5 percent it and they've got major rallies where you are or there is a there was a major rally in christie new jersey for example there are rallies in maine and some of these rallies are mostly white people mostly middle class white people so you're seeing this is this is not like ferguson this is much this is this has much more reach across racial lines so i think that in and of itself. means that there will be some traction beyond the protests on this at least that is what my coat is professor david eick i thank you here thank you often right stanford university nobel prize winning professor michael leavitt on why the pandemic may be over much sooner than we think and why nationwide lockdowns and

social distancing have nothing to do with it all of them all coming about through going underground. we go to work. straight home. dollars. dollars. dollars i mean a dollar

a dollar here's what i believe. what we got carol we here we care the music with us . we are here we were dragged here. by your love going to get rid of those who are not go away who will not die quietly. real the hard what we do is the true. welcome back the u.s. and the u.k.

i've been among countries was hit by coronavirus with some of the highest death tolls in the world but the trumpet administration and boris johnson's government have been criticized for acting late but noble prize winning by a physicist at stanford university professor michael leavitt to accurately predicted apparently the slowdown of coronavirus cases in china believes the nationwide lockdowns impose. propelled by panic rather than signs he joins me now via skype from tel aviv thank you so much michael for coming on that's a start of 1st principles if we may every day in britain we're told of how the are nort numbers signalling the rate of infection basically dictates how society should operate i understand you claim that our north is the well we're being told we're out firstly what you're being told is r t or are affected but which are not never changes they are they're telling you is basically how at any point in time. one case in fact how many other

cases so it does change with time it's not on or 2 it's r t or r e 4 are effective. i am not a fan of this number because it's actually very very difficult to calculate and it's not it very easy number. the reason is is that basically if you need to. calculate going back a certain number of days usually 7 or even more than that and this means that there's no way to get any information early on in the epidemic i must say i've talked to many epidemiologists and offered to give me their computer programs to cut out are there or they really aren't easy or talk and i prefer a much simpler measure which anybody can understand and that is the ratio of the number of cases today the total number of cases you're right about the total number of cases yesterday if you want to ask about new cases new cases involve differences of 2 number of new cases depending the day of the week it depends on your

collection procedure so basically this whole fixation on r. is really not a good idea and just so our viewers know you're a pioneering. scientist in molecular dynamics in protein structure itself why would our chief scientists medical offices here in london the downing street then tell us that it depends on our north whether we can go out of doors or see our relatives what they really mean is this whether the number of cases are increasing or not and i think that anyone in 2 to 3 would say that if the number of new cases today is less than 100 new cases yesterday we're going to before then we are not growing rep a sickly sorry down and there's been a case in britain for many many weeks now let's just get to the fact that obviously we have more than 60000 that certainly excess death figures may be here and before boris johnson's top scientific scientific model or neil ferguson left his

position he claimed that without social distancing. basically the deaths could be 250000 deaths here in britain in the u.k. he actually actually came out over estimate well i think the difficulty here is that you know. that number was based on various assumptions i got to a different number based on observation without any assumption that sort of what has happened in other locations such as the city of lacan in china the dominant princes cruise ship and they gave numbers that were about 110th the numbers coming out of imperial college the fact remains that we don't have to really speculate switzerland had a rather mild lockdown trains continued people could travel freely sweden has a much milder lock on than anybody the predicted numbers to sweden where around $60000.00 sweden it looks like it's going to stop at $6000.00 at the most so

basically you know you don't have to worry about russian in the usa this. really does seem to be limiting it gets to about. $500.00 to a 1000. 1000000 people and it stops and this we have seen in so many places i don't think that's a northern italy practiced wonderful social distancing i don't think the social distancing was practiced wonderfully in new york city what happened was that this virus is no skin factious and most dangerous before you actually know it's there and that's right if you're an island and you say no one comes into my island that worked for taiwan but if you wait until everyone has to you've had enough cases and everyone's been mixed and then you know it has no effect because everyone who's going to be inspected has a ready been infected and that thing will progress so this is what happened in new york city because of various. separation or mistakes i guess about where the subway

should keep on running with or they should be running more crowded lake and the same thing happened in london and you know in some ways it might be a good thing i think that's a really you said you said the policy of herd immunity is the right policy basically we see indications that sweden. so well it's you know hand-wringing about the method of trying very very hard to get different areas of sweden saturated what usually happens is that in london i'm sure one is saturated and i'm sure there are some parts of england and united kingdom but have not been nearly as hard hit and you know i think what's happening in sweden is that these places that being identified and they're allowed to continue are now when i say that the deaths get up to about 110000000. that's assuming that we are not able to specifically protect the very old people cost the deaths are over 85 in all of you

are in a very very large sample are something like 160000 excess deaths that we've seen in europe collected in a in a very careful way hot of those deaths of people over 85 and i think that no country has succeeded in having a lot of infection and protecting those people start in some ways the death become a proxy for how much infection you've had i think if one set as a goal to minimize you know you could argue that if it's not government policy would be to. try to minimize the death to avoid public outcry but next a micro level of infection and you could have done that by simply that only people wearing protective gear go in and out nobody you know someone messing them to the other etc it's a very expensive solution and i really don't believe that governments even given this choice would have done it except you could argue that the reason they look

down which is a much more expensive solution is because of the public outcry so you could argue that a smart policy would be to protect the elderly not necessarily because you are concerned about protecting somebody who's $85.00 and could easily got a natural death in the next 6 month. but the grizzlies that are counted once the time and they lead to a great deal of public concern protect the death even at a very high cost and then let the infection get on with itself corona is extremely. kind i would guess to people under $65.00 the normal fraction of death for people under $65.00 is 16 percent coronavirus is a tough that level for basically you know if you're under $65.00 you have about twice the chance of dying naturally as from coronavirus no natural death includes car accidents and so exciting everything else but basically when you're over $85.00

corona it is essentially the same level as the national so maybe maybe governments should immediately have 45 care homes as you say disproportionately affected by corona virus but you do seem to be suggesting then that the lockdown is a complete waste of time that as britain was having exponential growth there should have been no lock down even the swedish chief epidemiologist had his take not says that sweden should have adopted similar strategies to other countries presumably those that implemented a lockdown much on i don't believe that i. i would say this you know i think it's pressuring sweden sweden is acting very clearly in a way that keeps the cases going the death of now reached the max and that's the coming down you know i think a lot of what's reported on sweden is wrong sweden is going to saturate with a population fatality ratio between $5.61 the rest of europe on average is $480.00 per 1000000 i would imagine it written is higher than that i

mean belgium is higher than that so it depends and this is for the whole the whole area including places like germany and so on so i don't think that is true i think the important thing is that you know there's a big distinction between lockdown and social distancing social distancing as a whole row there's a whole range of different measures of social distancing so for example if you do want to stop your country being infected closing the borders you know when you heard about mohan would have worked it probably would have had a cost but i think the problem is is that look down you know just even the name locked down it's not something like in our whole down into the rate shocks has a lot of unintended consequences a lot of economic damage crudely huge social damage. schooling damage deferred medical care damage things we don't even know about and you know it's

certainly that receive us suddenly i'm talking about the economic impact on mortality but then all in all you're suggesting that israel australia austria those countries will ultimately be worst hit because they did have strict lock downs and you're also saying we should believe the chinese to distance. the chinese citizens are absolutely fine i mean i looked at them in great detail and discovered that's what happened in china aside a cool day is exactly the same dynamics of the kind as what happens in new zealand so if china is forging things they must have a time machine if the time machine you know they become nothing any competition any right so it's not even worth thinking about it i mean the the curves for new zealand and all of china except today are super imposable you know i should also say that i say and at the demick is a dynamic object that has a something is changing with time and this is very much an expertise of an

economics simulations all the time dependent phenomena so i see many of the same issues of how you integrate the equation and so on coming up again and again and again reza by the levitt thank you. all right thank you very much that's it for the show we'll be back on monday with george boyd's alleged police but a walking uprisings across the western world finally of is in a minneapolis court monday with ultimate 52 years to the day of the arrest of mother to be judy is assassin james earl ray at london's heathrow airport until then wash your hands and join the underground following up on you tube twitter facebook instagram it's not about.

you cannot be both with the yeah you want. according to several sources felice in the united states kills from 2 to 4 people every day my. head his hand. with sad eyes the window. what am i being arrested for a response from enough that. it's just their little world to establish and they develop just us against them until. a long time he showed up for like 25 years as. i read this from someone quoting you know nobody. there is a corruption inside of this release well they've been told. i

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