missing least if possible but not by me as i was really your book well now the mechanics and dr king had earlier dish. a clear understanding of who and what they were up against that made all was galvanized public to get public support and exchange public opinion but when it turns out floyd's dad there's no disagreement that it was a very i am with it raised that circle right this should never happen again and multiple investigations so what's the wind of bricks has saying when everybody thinks really is that something like this absolutely shouldn't happen think yeah yeah that's a good question the boy is bigger than george floyd and it's bigger than the criminal justice system so we're going to things with the black lives matter protest in 20131415 was really this argument and understanding that america's criminal justice system is in fact a gateway to panoramic systems of racial oppression and economic impoverishment so

this is about the criminal justice system in the way in which united states over the last 52 years went from the great society in a war on poverty to a war on crime that criminalize the entire african-american community and we're thinking about whether people are or rich in the context of everything from racial profiling to an equal sense as between blacks and whites for committing the same crime so we think about why are people protesting people are protesting because one they want policy changes and transformations they want to change the money that's being spent in the criminal justice system and have that invested in communities that are african-american that are racially segregated they're economically impoverished but they also want different policies in terms of. tax policies only policy food justice and there's food deserts in all these different african-american communities there's environmental racism so many african-americans and there. children suffer just from asthma there's high rates of unemployment and

there's racial segregation in public schools and in rez and in neighborhoods so there's a there's a cascading reason why the of a was not debating any of those reasons even though you look at the washington post data they don't police shootings are unarmed of all races but in the black have actually decreased for areas where. police officers also all racists how to increase but. well that there are actually dispute that data if you look at what the guardian has said and look at the guardian that is the british newspaper i mean the lies you have already been over there is nothing out there so you can say that there are stacks other statistics and you think you can use that hysterics to set up your own narrative so but to plastic wrap our will be doing that is a progressive liberal newspaper that is on the i would i would actually dispute that the washington post as it is owned by amazon jeff bezos is absolutely not

a progressive so i would fundamentally disagree with him but he imagines that people want a change in policy and where did they want that from there we supposed to be charge of making those teeth low that it is it's local state and national so people are right here in austin rather the people are organizing we did at that virtual town hall with over a 1000 people and the mayor is here people in the city council people want local change but they also want their states to change these policies and they also want a sterile government so the way which our system of government works it's local state and national all of those pieces together and to really divest away from funding in criminal justice that's about punishing incarcerating brutalizing traumatising and showing black people and putting those investments where communities and neighborhoods and people and our children are approaching. affected

it can thrive professor joseph but if the local ad concretely not the general or asked or think critically of the atmosphere his department if you look at that last site it's a perfect picture of diversity to have a blast at the last decade or so that means it isn't what isn't up systems of structural oppression and white supremacy so what people are asking for is not more racial diversity in the criminal justice system they're talking about rightsizing a criminal justice system and down as an equal justice system we have the biggest criminal justice system in the world in the united states we've got 2300000 people interests and we've got over 8000000 people on parole and probation so what people are asking for simply is this take the money that you're putting into criminal justice department incarcerate and contained but hardly black populations and put that money back into communities he's the founder many different levels national

law whole state etc but i feel that it revealed me that the actions of the concrete police department where these brutal murder happened me to be of that apparatus and it's not just any other police department the department it was presided actually i think his role model what the child was supported by the central leasing it was promoted by the obama foundation you know the recipient of what they call a data driven back against racial disparity policing so they this is you know the this is an institution that was actually arabic person sends a needle this teaches that. what do you think happened there allowed for such a brutal crime take place that not just so why did police officer took part in it but. just standing by and watching that should say something about the larger culture. is that bye now. well yes i think you're missing the forest for the trees

creel justice and united states of america policing in the united states of america is irretrievably corrupt so even want to obama was trying to do federal guidelines what people at the grassroots are saying black people it's not about by can't it's not about people agreeing to try to be nice to black people when the whole culture is set up for them to incarcerate to punish to criminalize back that up english they're saying we need to defund the police we need to defund criminal justice it's not about electing progressive district attorneys it's saying we need to reimagine american democracy and it's not just about the minneapolis p.d. they are just the tip of the ice for a larger cultural corruption in the united states that's based on white supremacy it's based on anti-black racism that's based on a long history of dehumanizing and demonizing african-americans and punishing and incarcerating them so what's really important about this moment the reason why i argued in the washington post the boston globe on that and on meet the press that

this is a generational opportunity we have a lot of white citizens who are also outraged by this because they realize that their stories are connected to the stories of the black lives that are being lost absolutely but then you have also have a lot of black why is it is that's why it's higher probably what's going on in that neighborhood there have been more than a 100 arses so it's not a small minority that save all that. millions of dollars and i just hundreds of businesses look at a lot of people here and i am proud that she probably don't have seemed undamaged so in that neighborhood they are stuck sitting on the floor that they now used to still during that wind. time and their blood by the way and when you say last week you know why did they say they stuck for that daddy her company you don't. you

know i think that fear and division talking when you look at the armory cannot instance he's got you know division 8. and there are a few days yet you have when you think of the urban uprisings and the looting that's happened one there's been big portions of the violence that has been police and demonstrators and we have the social media to prove that that's happened in new york as happened in atlanta cops have already decided that you're not disputing but you're not putting it in into a context it's a logical fallacy to just focus on one side so no need to get not get even bigger of a good example is just one side is what. that media had now and there is a lack of that what they turned our spotlight on so are you coming in right now the propaganda that malcolm would be against and that dr king would be against is the media trying to focus on violence and not trying to focus on what is the origins one of the word of the rebellions why are people so upset people are so upset

because a structural inequality and racism even though your black folks who you're saying have been have been looted we have in new york city restaurants and places that have been looted that are still helping out and giving meals to the protesters because they know that anybody who's looted is just a small fraction of people who are peacefully protesting so again you're missing the forest for the trees i'm not missing anything can be got over me at all i think malcolm x. would say that you are part of the propaganda machine that's trying to be black and i'm tired lately absolutely not an american audience irate but there is that syria is not only because i didn't want it you're not america in american makes what you're trying to assert in that analysis even less credible to your behavior being there and they're admitting that you're being very disrespectful i think it is a thing i have been proud of her as you know me know me and mock attack me. the

war. and there are a couple of black guys. being the life out of her black lady is also a consequence. # white and black generating beaten all. i mean here are my ears i hear here's the problem i think there's a problem i think what you're trying to do by any means necessary to go from not going next it's utilize the uprisings that are happening to make an argument that somehow black people are as racist as white people i think that's unbelievably unfortunate i think that's wrong headed and do i do that and i certainly think that black people i'm not racist i didn't say that i didn't say that i just said a moment ago actually i did 1st of all you're making an assertion based on some media clip that i actually haven't seen the course that i've seen aren't that black activists are getting white. white looters from smashing windows and telling them

that's not what you should do so you're you're taking one that i actually haven't seen and making trying to make an argument that somehow you know there's a moral equivalency between that and why people are outraged by george floyd's execution and there's not well professor joseph last cool down her at all and we need to take a short break down there that are just. you

cannot be both with yeah you want. according to several sources felice in the united states kills from 2 to 4 people every day my. head hits and. we said i was there when. one of my being arrested for a response from enough. is just their little world to establish they developed just us against them until. a long history of 2525 years as. i had to shoot someone told me oh my. god there is

a corruption inside of this police but i think being closer is. kind of financial survival job today was all about money laundering 1st visit this cash into 3 different. oh good that's a good start well we have our 3 banks all set up here maybe something in your something in america something overseas in the cayman islands or do we do all these banks are complicit in their tough talk or say we just have to give mccoll and say ok i'm ready to do some serious money laundering ok let's see how we did while we've got home got a nice luxury watch for max and for stacy oh beautiful jewelry how about. luxury automobile again for a match you know what money you want to highly illegal don't be a good watch guys record.

welcome back to worlds apart because neil joseph oh they're over this story and the still the revolutionary lives of. marx the king jr this is just a last train to your book because i think it also present. on things that you. carry and. mix and. i mean she aged dr king is this glorify me all nonviolence and peaceful largest while malcolm x. is an apologist. jogging from your book i guess it was

a little bit more complicated than this. well yeah i think one of the things that i argue with malcolm american is that dr king has talked about radical black citizenship and malcolm x. is talking about radical black dignity and initially they are converging but over time they converge and they converge on this idea of human rights they converge on this idea of connecting radical dignity and citizenship together by dignity with malcolm x. men was an end to police brutality and to racial oppression where more of the gene junior met by citizenship was really both an end of racial segregation and jim crow oppression but he met more than just voting rights chang argues for people's campaign that everybody needs a living wage he talks about guaranteed income talks about health care it talks about decent housing for all so when you think about these ideas of dignity and citizen ship even though usually think about change or malcolm is nonviolent or

self-defense that idea of dignity and citizenship is usually important and by the 1964 early $65.00 or malcolm x. assassination we see them now only just meet once but malcolm listens to a speech taking gives after he wins the nobel prize he goes to selma and meets up with correct scott king dr changes in prison so there's really points at real convergence between both of their political class i think what many people don't realize how that connections changed over the course of our lives softening in the . mix and hiding in the case of the taking of spiegel add on dr king specifically are you saying that he was not oppressed almost sad ties posthumously. the narrative her american exceptionalism were going to be fair to say that dr king's legacy might call to buy white supremacy. well i'd say it was

co-opted by liberalism and there's an aspect that has been co-opted by political conservatives who try to just focus on one aspect they focus on all the way up into the march on washington and then they don't focus on him anymore and cheney really has to asking about social democracy he's not a communist he's not a marxist he's talking about social democracy believe he believes in both but he was very impressed by scandinavian spouse ocean democracy where people have a social safety net jane is anti-war he breaks with the johnson administration over the war in vietnam and came really wants everyone to try to eradicate poverty so change really believes in the war on poverty even even to a greater extent than the federal government that it goes to mississippi marks mississippi which is the poorest zip code in the united states and i show in the book out he's easing tears when he's speaking to these families who don't have

shoes who don't have blankets who don't have clothes and a really balance to go to go to austin d.c. and was important for us just like a protester say never again those chains fighting for people's march with with poor whites with poor people from who are mexican americans with native americans and african-americans all together to do this were people smart to try to transform american democracy in 1960 well that's right to the chagrin of the expression of why the possibly because when you know the structure of american politics and american power it's actually racially and makes you have no history at all why you have the 1st african-american president who has done this before and closely by his own admission unless you just roll like wow i think this sound most prosperous country trying to lead this is it may rebalance why as opposed to the you know the supremacy. really ready to exploit the glorified people all the skin color when

it suits their h.r. so why supremacy is not just about right people it's a it's a political ideology a set of belief systems but it's also it's also actually a crude going up our economically socially culturally united states so there isn't there really are no white george floyds where you can have a video of any police in all 50 states murdering a white person and i say no white people ever have deaths at the hands of the police there and a lot of them live like people killed at the hands of the police here and that black people you know because we're talking about because the demographics in the population really where there are hundreds of white people white people who can't afford to send their actual dentist or children i know getting proper food and education and there are a lot of people like that yes there are a lot of you finish them for for me we've been talking over to you my dear

explained what the white supremacy to me. it's really about whiteness i don't understand is why it is true because it's really the people who joined the resources were exploiting everybody else but here's the thing so the way in which way it is there's a possessive investment in that identity is that so even if you're poor and you're white you're going to be treated differently by and large doesn't mean there's exceptions by criminal justice systems when you try to vote access to housing education so that's what we mean we think about white supremacy even though for whites might be hurt by economic policies that are crafted by least they still have more relative access then they're african-american and or latin next counterparts so certainly does white supremacy have at times a negative impact on white people absolutely i would definitely say that including criminal justice but when we think about what is white supremacy mean it's

a. litter go in philosophical ideological set of beliefs that people imbibe in that they prove real power and access from. the parish president of the united states bird my celebrated man all over it well a person or as i said before ruined it consciously that one of the most prosperous countries on the african continent where last were much better at egypt ratings and society than any of the other arab countries that today if they beat slave market or bowl black and white is that an example of why the promise you are a black supremacy imposed are beyond. well i would say it's black supremacy and cause an african continent because obama he might have been the 1st african-american president but he still representing the united states and so we think about. the military general industrial complex. x. is overwhelmingly white so even if you have

a black symbolic head of that doesn't that somehow now you and i have a cigarette in the way i think a neat little scene in making decisions here is a put. him with the agency but there's no reason to racialize his agency in the context of him as head of the united states when the united states is obviously an imperial power but it's a racialized imperial power so it's not racialized enter our visas the black people causing the imperialism so if you have a black general if you have colin powell or barack obama just because they're african-american doesn't somehow change the edifice of the nation state they want. you know one of the things that i really like about malcolm x. and actually i have been very much nominated by his ideology here are very i'm what i think that is that is that the real change to be our american units though coming in from the all in the bosom of the of the black. and that is actually the notion of personal responsibility to stop yourself everything you say it right now

is even the african-american president that is the responsibility of the library lazed right rarity is the raise the person and all of that phrase the where is the personal responsibility welcome doesn't really say as personal responsibility i would push back against that he says self-determination and so what he means is self-determination to actually break free from the bonds of institutional racism and why if he were immediately sarah yeah he e.s.p. absolute he actually did but he was stating upon itself that we're going to rise as a political activist and as a political mobilize there to gain enough power to transform these institutions so this idea of just focusing somehow which which in a bipartisan way at times liberals and conservatives to black be a viewer this is misses the point because it's institutions that are structuring that be. havior black people have never had equal access to institutions and

opportunity and outcomes in us society and that's why we're seeing these demonstrations and these protests and these these rebellions and the interesting things that you're seeing multiracial multigenerational rebellion happening in the united states most of it has been peaceful but they're really resisting this this this politics and practice of institutional racism now present just one last question i have when i was a student in that case you sound bite i was war i was broke i'm from a very poor family but one of the things that surprised me a lot about the united states is how many have received if there are herself you have great libraries great charities you have lots of scholarships affirmative action their unique opportunities for a person to develop and many many minorities a whale of. why the problem with people i decided i am not arguing that there are structural balances i'm

a very that's built into the system not our being of. the belief that what doesn't get next is stronger what's the problem with taking making use of all of god because look at yourself you wrote such a brilliant book lot of barack obama look at michelle obama. and they all did because it's. easier to tally be you know all the black people that you are just victims yet because of the last well this is why supremacy isn't really marry because of passion because there are many faults that i as a russian can say that the united states navy strives to purab in balance what i think it's much different for people there is there's so many millions of people who are impoverished who live in segregated communities who don't have clean water don't have access to good food here i'm so to tell those people to sort of lift themselves up by the bootstraps is is it's not

a solution in terms of policy wise and we done that to the african-american community rather than invest especially the last 52 years since 1968 since the uprisings after change assassination so even though absolutely there's going to be bubbles of racial progress and i talk about that i say hey you know it's not just iraq i'm michelle obama it's these these these big very successful entrepreneur or as if they were all saying that they got all of that and then you can imagine yourself all those people but that doesn't mean that that trickles trickles down to the entire community and that's not because of behavior or a lack of wanting to reach out for opportunities those are real real structures and tell people. the story of american history is not somehow introducing them to victimization they need to know they may 31st was the 99th anniversary of the. the racial massacre in the united states where over $300.00 african-americans were massacred are the black wall street in the greenwood section also loma that's not

taught in our books it's not taught in our books the impact of not just racial segregation in terms of textbooks but the redistribution black land that was owned by black people in the 1903 early 20th century that was taken in expropriated which helps explain the wealth gap between blacks and whites so we are talking about the truth of american history just like talking about the truth of russian history that shouldn't destabilize or make anybody feel like a victim what it does is provide your contacts and actually provides you a way to try to transform your situation because they make sense that's what you do as an educator you try to show people why are we here why did george lloyd protest what is that all and expands a way that we can understand it so that's not victimization that's actually giving people really personal power and they are it to understand their situation and that's what malcolm x. wanted that's the norm the king jr one of the presenters

a preacher i really appreciate you i think a pretty very spirited exerting take you and take it from watching us here again next week on all of the by. our. bar. the world is driven by a dream shaped by. the

day i. think. we dare to ask. you know will number one capital in united states we all slow number one and. he'll. tell me the mug shot before. the most. evil are you selling crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot and ordered through it. like a law in a months almost. a month of sundays so this is somebody will look. at the

rules for. a 2nd weekend of racism protests tens of thousands turn out across the united states but they've been markedly more peaceful in contrast to the riots again heavy handed policing earlier in the week. that may have all main street some of the early rallies erupted into riots resulting in shops and businesses being run in several states. away from us and some other stories that shape the week sweden is loose the money behind it said it caused too many coronavirus deaths but it wasn't entirely wrong. an eco emergency in the russian arctic a massive fuel spilled tens.