hello and welcome to crossfire after all things are considered peter lloyd well we're told the civil unrest in the united states and beyond is about systemic racism we're told western institutions and values are inherently law and corrupt though neither really explain the real evidence of social breakdown what is really in play here is an ideology and ideology that demands absolute submission and total .

to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest maybe bob but you must go he's a political analyst and editor it interests me internet media project and in nicosia we cross the outer sapporo is the director and writer for the duran right gentlemen crossed up rules in effect that means in germany i mean want i was ok let me go to you in nicosia here i mean we've been talking about this now for a few weeks and i've actually changed my mind a number of times in trying to analyze and understand what's going on here obviously the neo liberal order is under threat it's being challenged that's very clear but from a number of different trajectories and not always really overlapping. we have an underclass particularly in the united states is a revolt and of course we have the pentagon making the law to add to and then you have the professional raw material class that in my opinion is using systemic races. and other woke isms as

a cover because they know that the economic and political system is interim extremely unjust and then we have all the other players life matter and t.v. to what degree they're really important is still one unclear to me but they're certainly being propped up by different elements of the elites and importantly the media so i mean it is kind of a purpose but i don't see a list of demands the only thing that is absolutely clear to me is that the establishment is is worried while for the 2nd time in 10 years we see a massive transfer of wealth to the wealthiest people in the world when up to 2025 percent even more families are insecure here in the united states so i listed kind of the macro the big picture here which is your take. i mean when when i take

a look at what's happening right now in the united states i kind of see this as the establishment class the neo liberal elites kind of admitting definitely admitting that they can't be trump at the ballot box especially with with joe biden and i think now that you know even a hillary clinton. you know substitute for joe biden i think is now a reality that she can't wait either so i think they're coming to the realization that come november at this moment in time they simply cannot be trump. in a vote at the electoral college they can't win so you're seeing just the extension of russia gate ukraine gate and now you're seeing what's happening with the riots and that's fine you have people going out on the streets and protesting what happened to floyd there is that i don't think anyone has a problem with the peaceful protests but the fact that you're seeing a top down mobilization of rioters getting out to the streets looting using very

much very many of the same tactics that we saw in other international color revolutions one that comes to mind right now to me is ukraine and what happened in ukraine you have all the same players there instead of the right sector you have. you have a lot of the n.g.o.s that you had in ukraine also mobilized in the united states and you have small pockets of protesters who are easily controlled looting and destroying things going after cops you had a lot of the same elements at the might don that you're seeing in various cities in the united states specifically in minneapolis in new york and other in atlanta and other cities around the u.s. so what you're really seeing is a regime change i think there's no doubt about it while there are you could have 2 truths a day at the same time he could have protesters ok and you could have you just heard someone who just nailed it there you can have 2 choices you can have multiple crews that are right through at the same time that's why i think this is so maybe

you look at it you know. it's been a minute i think alex is right i mean it at least on a treasury level i mean this is about from it's always about trauma so that you know unfortunately that affects our politics so much because there is something is systemic problems here but it seems to me again right as i said in my opening comments here i think that this this ideology that the really only needs are using it it's a false ideology because they're there they know how to divide. the the people that have the most grievances and that's the working class not only people of color obviously a lot of people in the middle in the in the working class are people go in there are very very poor so this is kind of conflating it all together because you know. the professional military all classes they want the status quo the kind of the status quo bomber everyone was feeling good you know having wine in the shower and

of course trump does a player on this but i'd like to make very very clear here what is really significantly done except for portable his ball garrity ok which i don't care about but the tweets i care about. well i basically agree with alex i think a very important it's rational used by the regime change what is regime change basically it's a serial war you know new sometimes a real civil war like in syria or in the green well i mean just this point it's cultural with me were great i mean that's the origins of this here people are now. basically it reminds me of the darkest wages in russian history because. their establishment media when they used the same problem not the math that's that they used against and against saddam hussein and in games courts when they started then you are again strong i mean i despise trump he is an equal character.

institution you know this institution of the presidency they wear a games to the institution of the presidency with the same propaganda tools that they used in syria in ukraine in leave there so if you're not russian history how did the russian revolution happen lenin sat well to transform the imperialist war into a civil war so our bombs people basically use the same technology has the. instrumentalists against ukraine or against it they use them against against trump inside the united states and the huge danger is that drunk we stamp that who turned this civil war in doing imperialist mind again that's why he's created all this cause. you know he's trying to again deflect attention and jones that anger against china. why mine just

to make it very clear are the best i think all of this was written by guardian. let me just who is narrative because he's absolutely right that the dangerous thing here is not a person you know it's not a bomb or by them who are the devils it's the narrative that so let me just quote you. they say the media they just spent the majority of the last 4 years greek and promote your non official narrative which costs more the americans why supremacy who literally elect a president and who wanted to become king to the races. according to this narrative which has been relentlessly disseminated by the corporate media the russians for donald trump and all of this with those d.n.c. emails they never actually cracked and some division so we ats that supports black americans in refusing to come out and vote for clinton so who do perfectly all or at least personally some are pretty slow to destroy your democracy and now

these people are out of the quote and now these people are supporting looting and the so-called protest which you needed to transform themselves into wooden and violence you know they support it simply you know do on them i'm trying so desperately to clean up the carpets don't bain capital kind of memory has to be both of you at the same time here in ohio it's a game yeah it is focused on trying but the danger is here to take out trump as it were if you. you're going to create institutional damage because i don't think they want a grand transformation just the opposite they want to know joe biden nothing will significantly change but this course by trying to take trump out does incur massive institutional damage i mean they want poll at the same time you can't have oh ok so i mean at i think they do want to keep the institutions

that they had under bush under clinton bush obama and yet became rich yeah they want that for example they want that war machine intact they want the globalism intact they want the manufacturing that's that has left the united states they want that to continue so they do want the institutions the wall street intact and i'm not saying that trump doesn't support those very same institutions i'm not saying that but in their mind in their mind trump is aiming to break those institutions down or at least replace the people at those institutions with other people and for them that's a direct threat so i do think that you know they do want to keep this titian's attacked but they are willing to sacrifice the united states constitution if they have to you know i mean. with that it may be a gimmick but it also i will i'm i would say they're willing to sacrifice a good part of the country in the process here see there's no nobility in what

they're thinking about you know this is all about systemic racism it's about you already in a week that's all nonsense i don't think that's their propaganda that c.n.n. and amisom see always are pushing but it has nothing to do with any of those things do you want to jump in now well i'm not sure you can read it all these institutions you know the woman sheen which destroyed media which is destroying ukraine and which destroyed series not only. is completely. they august royals. if you should because the president is an institution and basically a very democratic one they are destroying the well you see if you want their the strength to be obvious of americans to say. people. you know that has been around her when doing that yes but if you make it again i kind of want to stay with the here and now here i mean they're willing to say this is not looting it's mostly peaceful and all that because it has

a direct political impact ok again it seems to me that the worst the better without destroying the entire thing because that's how they've been able to be so successful here when i think just so extraordinary is the lengths that they were willing to destroy our political discourse our political system our institutions everything that's just. visiting other throw the dice keep going so well that well i mean just there are these there are you know orange west's you know or yellow west brom's you remember how they went against them why was the young the west for at least part of the rule. with. their support in this so-called uprising and again and. or guardian these so-called rebellion you know which started the bottle of well i'm going to. ruthlessly by the

groups this rebellion class mushroom in the working poor and international uprising cheered on by the corporate media and liberal establishment i mean what really is disgusting here is this double standard yeah well it's bad but you know the people who are saying trump is a fascist there you know you don't read all mad at. me here we have to go to a hard break about about our break and continue our discussion and a newbie our new ideology religion in american power. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest in the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then.

we go to work. straight home. the world is driven by a dream shaped by our own person with those great. new dares thinks. we dare to ask.

how if there was a crack seems to do crack when i was a locate my dead he was like of us at the sewing aga like what i needed when i was a baby boy i had a bad childhood. there's always been single mothers in african-american communities ever since slavery. i think it's more of a issue of these teenagers having kids in you can expect a 14 or 15 year old 1st daughter now old enough for him to be a father and he's a check out. we actually lost our place in october my car end up breaking down and i was unable to get to work on time so they let me go in with my paycheck that i bring home i have nearly enough to pay my car insurance and let.

well america crossed up where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're talking about the new ideology and religion in the west. ok alex let me go back to you i mean if if if we were told by the mainstream media we're told by left wing groups and i'd be along in this is obviously a great opportunity for them in so many different ways cliques ok their bottom line i mean you and me at c.n.n. is actually doing well for the 1st time in 19 years and they know how to play crisis but you know if they're if they're so determined to change the face of

american politics the tone in the tenor and why the packing joe biden i mean i mean with his. bills and his record with supporting the police and the and military interventions around the world i mean it's really quite hollow isn't it because they made sure there'd be no change in the democratic party because after they got rid of bernie ok i mean i guess they seem so hollow to me and so empty and in going through this regime change process which i think i think is probably appropriately said if we're getting about the real pain that so many people in the country have it's it's you know it's like bulldogs squabbling under a carpet you know i mean it's these elites that are doing so well i mean biden is the ultimate empty vessel i mean all he's going to do is just continue with the obama the 8 years under obama the bush era and the clinton era so for them biden.

is the perfect president and it goes back to the destroying of this situation i agree with that the presidency is absolutely the ultimate democratic institutions the ultimate expression of democracy if you have abided winning then yes it is democracy for you have trumped you have to tear it down that's the way they see things it's always a binary with them and you also see it on the streets it's a binary these riots are a binary you're either with us and you're ideologically pure or if you're not you're racist you're white supremacist in ukraine peter in ukraine they supported real not fake not imaginary real neo nazi neo nazi white supremacist real the real deal not this fake stuff that they're pushing in the us media these guys were the real deal they were violence they were damn violence and who supported them who supported them. and shoebite and joe biden was running the country pretty much by supporting them so i mean there's no you know there's no

virtue in any of this and they did they want to do it it's ok but i was going to say but this isn't about ideology it's always about power because the way to do the way they are of framing this ideology it's just a vehicle for power it hasn't nothing to do with balance been a chef. well i knew you wanted to show me a lot and back palosi want power back yet i think x. is exactly right when he used the war white supremacist i'm our new green and nazis and i just wanted to explain it to all of europe's or the ukrainian nationalists it's boggled their rates just now if you want discourse is that russians are not slavs russian side descendants or kottaras you know you really hope now not europe you know we are you koreans where you are slavs were blown and so these kind or who

are it may seem very strange to americans you know russians are white and opinions are white but racism is not and our racism is about this you know hierarchy that you built you know that europeans europeans there about all there are russians in ukraine because you're pretty and say that we are europeans will all which means to hold to europe and this is a very dangerous age if you are very dangerous or a little bit of a team a big team at claiming that using that rhetoric all it's doing is that it is the vibe in the polity in ukraine then that's what they want to do it's a means to power because they can't win power on their economic success they can they can do it on anything up i mean this is a well tried endeavor here to always use the race card to bite people but it doesn't if it doesn't solve real racism and then we're going to announce here i

mean all of this alluding. taking and me which i find really a horror and here how does any of that change systemic racism it just purchasing out what what was it bright bart the person that said andrew breitbart that you say that culture is downstream from from politics i'm sorry politics is downstream from culture right i mean that's the whole point over the past 1020 years they've been dismantling. the culture of the west and take the united states they've this been dismantling the family they've been dismantling marriage they've been taking down physically taking down statues historical statues gender right they've disappeared they've been dismantling gender so all of this shouldn't be seen in just the vacuum of the last 2 weeks this has been a progression this ideology and now we've reached the end reeve reached the end of this or maybe the beginning of this new religion actually which is peter take any

kneel before the mob kneel before your new god so for the managers i understand the exercise in the intent but it doesn't solve anything it's not meant to solve it's meant it's meant to tear down and that's that's how i look at it's not meant to solve a problem it's meant to to rebuild this new utopia this new utopia is not going to be built in in god we trust that's out the window. that's out the window we the people in god we trust if you do these are new thinking this isn't thinking you're not a silicon valley out of these you know billionaires that have this new idea this jury and humanist idea you know the irony of all that is and said you want to quote unquote you're really one demagogue and replace it with a group of demagogues ok i mean if we're not going to have the rule of law we're not going to have a constitutional and i would be your president. then what do you have dinner with

you have here is you have a not a utopia. a disco here ok this isn't a nightmare scenario rich and you know what i guess i'm the one that goes but i don't see how middle class people working people benefit notice you had bhima well i just wanted all of you are stunned to stand that we are not against real leftism here there is not athan rule on about real leftism there is nothing wrong about fighting racism the problem is that fighting racism is be an instrumental ice now by the people who just want to a gillig to my strong and present everyone who disagrees with the so-called liberal s. a bunch a white supremacist that is unfair that's what we are fighting against and unfortunately you know something wrong happened to the left in the last at least 20 years don't want a french philosopher has split way to well i. just said that right now the real left is about defending the international order fighting there was

a regime change seen around the world and very rarely a so-called establishment left is doing that well these are the greens i can look at though your happened to the left his name is tony blair and bill clinton ok that's what happened the last ok alexakis alex one of the things that you know i'm so read about concerned about is that i want to see transformation and real transformation of populist transformation here but our politics now. or so polluted and and so in here because what these people are doing it creating like as you said a binary i mean either you take the me in the knee or you are excommunicated from any kind of political involvement whatsoever that is antithetical to the tradition that has worked for a lot of people and you know what hundreds of millions of people around the world would love to have not just exactly that. i mean i think there's

a large part of the population that definitely would want that but i also think there's a large part of the population that does not want that they want power and i think they could feel that they're closer to power and you know going through what happened in the riots there was a lot of money made the corporations are going to make a lot of money off of the riots atmos out is going to buy up and the big corporations are going to buy up a lot of the property that these small businesses now have lost whether it was because of the cv pandemic or whether it was because of these riots so a lot of small business have gone out of business yet a lot of n.g.o.s that are going to make a lot of money and they're going to continue to stir up trouble is being bailed out they're being bailed out they're being bailed out hollywood celebrities are donating money corporations are donating money black lives matter is now a viable very wealthy angio so it's going to continue. to do what it does so a lot of people gained a lot of power from this 2 week alex you forgot something kind to him or

none of this goes through a democratic process doesn't this is not meant to this is just this is administrative fee i mean the reason why i bring that up is that even though nancy is going to get her to go below average look at all the goodies they doesn't have 50 percent plus one in a voting situation so you you put it into the back door and under the carpet here this is a see this is what this whole idea was. approach doesn't it short circuits democracy because they can't win using a democratic process go ahead now yeah and it's not meant to go through a democratic process because they know they can't win so they're going to do everything they can from now until november to stack the deck that's what they're going to do and now that these riots are going to subside they're going to subside because he didn't get the jobs report that they were hoping for i.e. they were hoping for a much worse jobs reports in what turned out which turned out to be

a surprise jobs report and i think it says. white house is good news is antithetical to their view you know it's a nice day with you here before we end the program. do you think that at this point in time that the. that the liberals and the democrats they they just played their cars you have that you mention the jobs report and there's going to be this way into law and order is this protesting and violence this type of protest again violence and it's go ahead isha well i think they were they were hoping for. the people out on the streets to propel that to that regime change that we're talking about i think that's doubt that's been the big difference from russia gate ukraine gave the impeachment a they said they actually got people out on the streets so that right so i think that the fact that the jobs report was not what they expected i think is going to take a lot of wind out of their sails for the regime change but but i think of the next

2 or 3 weeks you're going to have another go at it and i think they're refining their tactics and they're getting better libertarian or ideologically because as they're not rational and they only think about self-interest that's all the time we want to thank my guests in moscow and in exile and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here aren't you scenic some remember. you can be both with the yeah you.

seemed wrong. but all roads just don't all. mean you will get to stamp out just going to cut that's ok and in danger because the trail. when something find themselves worlds apart. just on the for common ground. no more secure but she will be more use to you. but the way it's always at the quay it was a guy who more of the late. not so much you need me to. take you to just the wooden get the curtains up. in the front of the can you can look at the way i. see the way.

the. viewers from around the world fly from central london this is on to u.k. . the government promises action against publish some version of ongoing anti-racism protest after a statue of a british slave trader is told in bristol i'll be talking to a lawyer and activist. people travelling into the u.k. will not be expected to start isolate for 2 weeks as the home secretary is quarantined plans take effect some of the government's scientific advisors reportedly distanced themselves from the move to be joined by medical experts and. a doctor has launched a legal review to force the government to publish the results of exercise sickness

which tested how prepared the u.k. was for a condom making we hear from the doctor himself. 27 medics and scientists according for an urgent private 19 inquiry before a 2nd wave of the virus hits we hear from one of the signatories. thousands of people defined the government's warning to stay at home this weekend as more than a dozen black lives not a protest took place across the u.k. while many were peaceful clashes between some demonstrators and police in london led boris johnson to say the movement had been subverted by thuggery. thank. you.

if you. was. well advanced was staged or rather the u.k. with a protest in bristol escalating as a statue of a slave trader was toppled well for more on all of this on to you casey so ali joins me now. tell us that you were at the london demonstration on sunday was it subverted by thuggish elements. well what we saw yesterday during the protest in

response to the killing of george florid in the united states was a large which began inside the american embassy and once that march took place in the early afternoon protesters numbering around $15000.00 or even more according to one police source i spoke to added over the bridge towards part of the square and downing street where the protesters gathered and it was all 'd peaceful until later in the evening when crowds began to stand out and number of people began to see that they were getting cattle in by the police we started to see tensions rising with some protests story of bottles and bricks and when police attempted to make arrests in some cases police being chased down whitehall until they were backed up by the territorial support group in essence that the element of the metropolitan police who are more trained to deal with law it and so you know we did see some

clashes some skirmishes quite as intense as the ones we saw on saturday where police charged into protesters on their horses and one horse bolting as a result of people throwing missiles and we saw footage of sunday one of the police officers being really flung into a traffic light by horse and now we have seen a reporter response by the government with boris johnson as you mentioned putting it down to study every and saying that what is an overwhelmingly a legitimate process being infiltrated or taken over as he said by elements that perhaps don't have obsessives best interests at heart at the height of a dollar a set took place in press on sunday didn't it yes absolutely in brazil we've seen those images coming out of the statue of edward cole's tonight because there was somebody who was a slave in the. eckstein hundreds and lot of the wealth he made was made off the

back of the slave trade and he had a statue which had been raised for him because bristol hunting a long heritage in history troubled one if you will with colonialism slavery and that statues been the subject of many many campaigns petitions and political campaigns to try to have it removed they've all failed but the test is on and we can took matters into their own hands they troops and they dragged the statue down and then rolled it across the street incense threw it into the harbor and now there are many who would welcome that amongst anti-racism campaigners but could you could sell the home secretary didn't see it that way and said now that putting down the statue of the slave owner was and how it's disgraceful well i think that if a plea disgraceful and that speaks to the at the 5th old a puppet difficult but actually it has now become

a distraction from the core thing which people are actually actively protest in about. now the labor leader kissed stunna didn't really commit himself to any position either way saying that on the one hand that statue shouldn't have been that also condemning the fact that it was pulled down the way that it was completely wrong. but stepping back that statue should have been brought down a long time should've been taken down a long long time ago. now that statue as i mentioned has been the subject of political campaigns which have failed up until now but i'm the mayor of bristow martin rees no he said that that statue was innocence to brewer fire a slave owner it wasn't just for history as some people have been making the argument to already see repercussions cosen hall the music venue in bristol and i

have said that they intend to change their name and a girl's school with the name of edward coles and also said that they will be taking down the statue that they have on the school premises so already we can see the reverberations of the protests his actions having an impact with some of those institutions named after edward cole's the now trying to disassociate themselves with those problematic elements of the past it's already thank you for joining us. but joining me now is well and activist up to show that most of the military thank you very much for joining us the government has called some of the incentive that we can to get the words describe as full and subversive behavior terribly. i totally disagree with the government and i'm not surprised the tearing down of every colston's of statue rule in it at throwing it into the habit was the let me bring this where is the quibble and of breaking this symbolic chains of racism

that's what happened and the government is well aware that they have become pains titian's to have that statue removed and you know taken that the proper process democratic process but every single time those petitions those applications were denied what i saw most of protests yesterday were people who had had enough where people who are saying you are not hearing us we can not uphold this history and this memorize a shadow of a slave trader who earned the profits will profit over the dehumanization of black people after the government a lack an understanding of that does not surprise me we are talking by the got about a got then led by bill richardson who is racists who call black people to communities both just who said we've got what 11 smiles boris johnson who douglas all races of

barack obama or is just a who suggests that great britain should we invade africa forrester who said black kids turned his head boris johnson who refuses to condemn a tram for transfer which is a bar is done since i don't expect any different from bars dancers government and his cabinet ministers in addressing this question on that particular point about bristol people say that what happened in bristol wasn't and wasn't the fact that the statue was removed it wasn't the right way about about going about having it removed that's the key point as is your saying here removing statues it is a powerful symbol but it does actually little to change the problems people say exist doesn't it. no but you start with a symbol and to be honest with you it's getting quite exhausting to have people try to discredit the work and the cause of the back legs movement and the cause to end systemic racism by suggesting that the way that protesters have gone about it is

wrong these are people who are sitting in the old comfort zone going well as long as you just put a grim smile on stand you know 2 feet apart 2 metres apart and observe social distancing that should be fine absolutely not you do not get to police how people expressed yet prostration and when they have done so for years when they have tried to be heard this is not the 1st time we're having protests like this about police brutality about to do human eyes issues of black people it is not the 1st time but what is it martin luther king said riots and it's a language of the unheard when you do not be attention to the other herd you can't be surprised when things like this happen when people talk about well there's a right way of doing it bearing in mind that your question of people has been going on with nobody doing anything about it so when is that going to end you can't police how people x. express their frustration and when you refuse to pay attention to it this is what

happens it's not about cover darling balance it's not about condoning lawlessness but let's just bear in mind the utter hypocrisy here you know many people in the west particularly in the united kingdom celebrated the destruction of saddam hussein's statue and the destruction of justice dallas statue they hailed it as absolute resistance well now that it's happening united kingdom they're calling it a lawless there's a reckless that's absolutely hypocrisy to show that most of the shock man even thank you for joining us. now that i'm secretary's quarantine plans have come into effect in the u.k. requiring international travelers to self isolate for 2 weeks amid concerns about the financial impact it will have on the aviation industry that's as a 3rd of the british public think the government hasn't gone far enough when it comes to the new travel restrictions or are the u.k. shut to everest joins me with the latest so the quarantine rules for international

travelers have come into effect this monday haven't they. is indeed another attempt to try keep that our number down and stop the spread of the virus and today home secretary pretty patel's plans of quarantine come into force are certainly what they mean is almost everybody that enters the united kingdom will have to self isolate for up to 14 days now of course since its inception the plans inception last month that received a barrow job criticism however today pretty tell the mastermind behind the plan is almost distancing herself from her own measure 1st good this is not my plan this is a government and government policy and i think in terms of the approach that has been taken the government has maintained throughout this pandemic that medical and scientific advice in terms of border measures are consistent and are now being applied and that is right throughout this entire outbreak across the whole of government working with every government department we have identified the right measures. so according to the plan upon arrival on british soil you'll have to

provide contact details of your address of where you will be self isolating for that 14 day period that address that property will be up for a sport check if you are found not to be within that address it during your isolation period you could face a fine of up to 1000 pounds however there are some groups that are exempt from these corentin measures and they include the those that live in the common travel area that includes people from the republic of ireland to the channel islands and the isle of man the plans also exempt health workers who are providing important essential health care people who work as rotolo workers as well as seasonal agricultural workers and those people who reside in the u.k. that travel abroad at least once a week for what purposes now many say that the current team plans are particularly ludicrous for a various amount of reasons some say it's unimplementable i.e.

those that return to the united kingdom some may have to use the public transport to reach their ultimate destination and therefore essentially defeating the point entirely yes the government advises alternative travel measures but for many people there are no alternatives of course another criticism is the fact that some groups are exempt and a key issue being the timing of all of this many say the quarantine plans are too little too late and should have been implemented at the beginning of the knock down of course we well know that our european counterparts across the channel many of which have implemented this policy right at the beginning of their prospective lockdowns and at this point many are now in the easing and lifting of that restrictive measure for britain we're just on day one of it but most interestingly then we know that the government has long put the medical and science experts and information at the top of priority for they put down the government's policy interestingly those. very science experts other ones saying that they disagree with

the quarantine measures they believe it doesn't make any sense it's not based on science and essentially will be in affective however despite the criticism a poll found that a 3rd of people want the government to be even tougher on those traveling from abroad just over 40 percent think the restrictions go far enough with just over a 3rd disagreeing now within the u.k. we've also seen a back mainly from the conservative backbenchers base much on the economy when it comes to tourism interestingly spearheaded by to reason may the former prime minister they would prefer measures like air bridges which are are essentially bilateral agreements whereby citizens from 2 countries that make this agreement they can travel from one to the other particularly in regions where the our number is low the issue though for the tourism economy is not just based on where the people are booking trips or not can people really commit to

a 14 day quarantine period upon their arrival and in order to get this tourism economy back up it really will be based on consumer confidence quarantine or not thank you very much indeed. or to discuss the science behind the move on now joined by medical professor paul hunter paul thank you for joining us it really didn't sense to ensure that members of the public self isolate for 2 weeks after going abroad to prevent the spread of the virus. well i think at the moment the answer to that is almost certainly no. although it does depend on where people are coming from i think we are at the moment in a position where in the u.k. . we have more still got more searching meeting infections than most of our neighboring countries and indeed if you have somebody to me to this country from so italy or spain both countries that have really major outbreaks those

people are actually more risk from the immigration official in this country than we are for them so i think that as you probably already realize most. epidemiologist most experts. are not. don't really support this initiative but the principle behind schedule is this to keep the our number down and to avoid a 2nd page. well yes but. you have to set that in the context of everything else that's going on and and how the disease is spreading in in the community and i think they the answer is that the threat of the 2nd pete isn't going to come from outside of it's going to come from within the u.k. and although yes it sounds a it sounds. useful thing and i'm sure it will be.

politically in certainly in some sections but would be welcome i think the reality is that actually it won't really affect the are pretty much at all and and maybe distract issues from some of the things that really are important like making sure that we're actually managing our own relaxation of restrictions in a safe way and we have a test track and trace system in place to make sure that we. we can actually control the epidemic in this country and the reality is that this sort of extra quarantining process will actually have very little impact on on how the our our. progress is from here on that professor had earlier effective had it been earlier implanted earlier well it's always going to the history of travel restrictions for control of epidemic disease isn't good. people have reviewed even

before this epidemic there was a. little review evidence for the value of this sort of activity screening and boards and that and generally it doesn't really have much of an impact of that maybe delayed epidemics i recall so you know if we had totally banned all immigration and. that travel will be not without the country back in january that almost certainly would have had some effect but you know barring ball travel it wasn't going to be an option and the reality even if we china most of the big cases in this country have to come from china they came from italy and you can look back at the most of the cases socializing you can be traced by their genetics back to the outbreak in italy so you know it. would not really have. had an impact unless it was so severe it was. actually

literally nobody was good to me you know out of the country i don't think that was economically or socially or. chiva book it's a fascinating stuff professor paul hunter thank you very much my pleasure. does come this hour 47 medics and scientists write a letter calling for an urgent 1000 inquiry before a 2nd wave of the virus hits the one of the signatories. and a doctor launches a legal review to publish the results of operational sickness which tested how prepared the u.k. was for a pandemic we hear from the doctor himself. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world

of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see you then. the world is driven by dream shaped by fun person of those but. no dares thinks. we dare to ask. i know team no crowd. no shots. actually

just felt. you know let me stress no 1st small. points your thirst for action. thank you. welcome back adult to has launched a legal review after the government refused to publish the findings of a secret simulation which tested how prepared the u.k. was for a pandemic if successful it would force the government to publish the full findings that exercise cygnus broad conclusions from the simulation will leak last month and revealed the government had been aware of the impact of a pandemic and what it would have on care homes the department of health currently

refuses to publish the results on the grounds that could jeopardize civil servants ability to speak in private without fear of repercussions well known to behind the judicial review dr mousseau correctly told me that even if the government only planned for a flu outbreak there would have been many common themes that would have been helpful in the current situation. it's legal cases about forcing the british government to disclose information which can help the health care and scientific communities. fight effectively against coby 1000 have the information they need to do that and in addition to give the public the opportunity to participate democratic dema democratically into policy making decision making during this terrible challenge that we all face as a country while the government say it's pandemic planning was for a flu outbreak so even if it followed the advice it would be useful to get a corona virus outbreak. that's interesting the government is making that claim because the government's own ministers and m.p.'s have categorically and repeatedly

stated that they have used the data from the sickness exercise to inform their current policy in managing covert 19 and in fact in for instance drawing up the current virus act which has been so important in managing this pandemic and in dition you know that although it's true they're different viruses they're both single stranded r.n.a. viruses that they're both respond true viruses and they both have a very high replication value so this means that management of this kind of disease is that has a lot of the kind of common themes so for instance protective equipment for both health care workers in the public is incredibly important in both the chrono virus and an influenza pandemic. 27 leading medics and scientists are calling for an urgent covert 19 inquiry before the anticipated 2nd wave of the virus hits the u k. if as seems probable there is

a 2nd wave this winter many more will die unless we find quick practical solutions to some of the structural problems that have made implementing an effective response so difficult we call on all political parties to commit to a rapid transparent experts inquiry to address these issues this must avoid diverting the efforts of those responding to the crisis or portioning blame but should propose feasible ways to overcome the obstacles faced by those on the front line of the response and help them to save lives the group are warning that a fresh wave of the virus in the winter could kill many more if the government doesn't address the problems that have made their current response more difficult this includes the fragmentation in the n.h.s. public health and social care. and for more on this are now joined by one of the signatories dr kailash kher and now to get his chance thank you very much for joining us what would an inquiry achieve anything. you see

here we've got to learn our lessons very quickly not to look at it i think not long ago the u.k. was the 3rd leader in health education and find what happened despite all the odds is we have not all the hype it's just place in the world and highest now but in new york and all this i put it to 2 things one is disastrous management of the spend and a very very very poor leadership right on the herd go who violated laws and now be searching to really realize that we had absolutely miserable policy. of wonder right and generally when the whole thing started in china and we don't follow it what have they been doing is being a disaster and recently one bam in which we all know that the band that is black and asian minorities will have died just before strictly an inquiry was held and

the report of how big the 40 percent of them doctors resign or even today i would had there's a risk assessment done so in a way it is something very important before the 2nd bear come to that we learn of a lesson quickly and prevent unnecessary deaths so that you can always rather than to the 2nd wife if that becomes. the weird looks i don't think so we are ready to look at it as johnson was only last week telling us we have a short. grace system and all more so the scientists are spilling that this is just the arctic dust and trees for the sea which we've already and i think they are. we've got a good economy back why i think that also would be a false dichotomy if more people die but there are more able to look after the publish it was a con with the lord but so we are here and on this we've learned lessons and that's

why we. need to worry with so that we can loan out less than what mystics we have done and help them get out there you've. got to get a strong thank you very much for joining us. pleasure. more news at the top of the hour. when i was still seemed wrong. i don't know just don't call. me while yet to see how does the. magic. and indeed. the trail. when something you find themselves worlds apart we just a little common ground. best's

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