they make it when tens of thousands of europeans died because of shortages when europe rats had to have a big forgiveness we're not there on time when italy needed a helping hand at the very beginning and yes for that it is right that europe as a whole offers a heartfelt apology and that's why the desperate to make up any way to blame russia or china anything to avoid apologizing again but hats off to strata com east you ask any season mobster or cartel banker laundering 800000 euros a week is in these easy as an idea propose a magical european agency to root out and banish malign spirits because even if google still to exist strasbourg least knows how to conjure them up for money this is the weekly on r t international i'll be back in about 29 minutes stay with us.

join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics or business i'm showbusiness i'll see of. the low and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle we are witnessing the rise of a new secular religion and it's called the focus them at the moment in that short

history its goal is to end racism why well everything is now considered racist the believers in this called demand obedience insult criticism but we're really never told how racism is to be eradicated or how it helps serve the interests of working people of all colors. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest john de bar in bristol she is the deputy leader of the workers' party of britain as well as author wrote the drive to war against russia and china her forthcoming book is identity politics and class and in budapest we have george samuel he is author of bombs for peace nato's humanitarian war and he was right across our girls in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it ok let's go to bristol jody what do you look you make of this new secular religion because that it's kind of

quasi christian you know a little bit composed as a little bit a bit eventually mentalists style. and you know it has on with this ritual walls. it has its hume's it has its clergy it has its script sure. and it's making everybody miserable and it has nothing to do with fighting racism go ahead well i think it's the last point that i am really interested in x. do we want to fight racism and of course the answer to most of us is yes but to fight racism you have to understand where does racism come from what's the cause of racism these symbols of an exploiting society do of course represent the fact that it is an exploitative society what that reminds us is this society is not our society it's run it is made up of run by and for all

a tiny exploiting class and of course they heroes are the ones who are celebrated in the culture that they call ours which is really less and of course for the mass of the workers and exploited around the world these people are not heroes ok but it's a reminder of a material reality that we live in a world of exploiters and exploited and that is what is the cause of racism racism comes from the need to divide workers against one another it comes from the need of the imperialists in particular to justify their walls and their colonial conquest on the basis that these people can't take care of business they're not grown up they're not i mean the you know the the the way that it was and colonial exploits have been justified have subtly developed over the years but essentially come back to the same saying we have this white man's burden to take care of everybody else and it is it's not really about white and black is it you don't have to be white to

be racist you don't have to be black to be a victim of racism the europeans were being conducting pogroms against the jews before they ever saw a black person the british were conducting programs against the irish before they ever had a friend. african caribbean and indians you know to be racist against this law they had that even citizens to be racist against which has been our most recent and of course you know the arabs in between because we're waging war over the middle east so so maybe this is somewhat of a diversion i'm happy to see the back of the statues but if it just is a question of looking at statues and taking them away whilst doing nothing about the roots this is limit is it ok what does it change exert george exactly after that action is needed well that's how i see it all ok that i offered to address social inequities absolutely ok but you know george there's this whole movement it's

a career in the present there is no any past is adulterated it's dirty it's toxic it must be wiped away i mean how can we address inequality inequities without knowing the structural process they created in the 1st place and that's all in history ok and as far as you know seeing the back of that is that's a totally different question and i think that we should talk about that i think we should talk about what statutes mean but this is this is the taliban and it's a ship of western culture if you don't like it you don't understand it you just roy go ahead joe. yes absolutely and of course the taking down all statues is a process that's only just begun it goes it isn't going to stop with robert's unique because you know next up of this league of the founding fathers washington and jefferson they were slave owners woodrow wilson retrograde views on blacks

f.d.r. japanese americans and with martin in winston churchill's pearl in a box they can i do not go exactly so you know winston churchill who was a been an icon icon and it might show europe and united states for us since his death more than 50 years ago is now a reviled figure because he's an impure so everything else that he has done you know what i'm leader of that gets forgotten is just an impaired but one we know that this is a fraud is that if you really want to oppose imperialism if you really want to oppose. powerful rich powerful countries excerpting their will on weak countries which are none european nonwhite than oppose what the united states the united kingdom and france the imperial powers are doing to syria right now i mean there is their inflicting there was brutal horrific sanctions and

causing the misery that oppose what they did in libya destroyed a perfectly well dublin state for god knows what reason and it's and now they did this is a country in which they reintroduced slate so that there's a country where you actually after own going slave trade not the transatlantic slave trade 400 years ago but not only going slave trade in libya again not silence about that or the pressure that's of the sanctions against them venezuela again latin american country and you know the the you know nonwhite people say nothing about that so. well then here's the purpose of refighting the battles from 150 i don't i think i know the answer to let's go back to bristol john d. i know the answer that in use what you alluded to is that no one in the elites here do not want to talk about class that's like kryptonite to these people they don't want to talk it's all because of racism it's not because of class and that way that

is actually a very soothing and comforting thing because you know having this purity tests that you plight of people get on your knees take me and all these other things you don't you know address the structural problems of why there is racism in why there is and why there is growing desperation i mean look the phrase was attributed to george floyd but i think it is applied to it least half the united states i can read and it's because of the structural inequalities that been built in and we have all these woke people that makes them bill privileged if you don't they don't have they don't know anything about history they don't understand exploitation they're even know that they're being exploited. i mean 100 percent or so many points there and what you said i could pick up on that symbol that resonated with people so much about george floyd's death it wasn't just that it was another policeman the way that it was filmed so we could see the cold blooded nature of his killer son come

to need to the neck and the words of the dying man i can't read your lap for that to resonate with you that mismated across the world because that is the experience of the oppressed and exploited masses every match it's all great they have that need in the neck from imperialism really ellie's them and their children and you can raise and that really resonates and that's why it is as you say about close and the system and not about purely black and white and racism at least pilots in america although. of course those things. are many of the inequalities but really why has expanded now in such a way it's not only the power of this particular merger it's also the fact that it's come on top of as you say a situation where the economic crash which is the biggest accomplishment has ever produced combined with the health crises are being disproportionately as always

built by the poorest and of course the poorest in the imperius countries are more likely to be black if you're black you're more likely to be poor so that desperation is coming from people losing their jobs have no health care suffering from the crisis the most suffering most from the health epidemic and being in the middle of all of this and of course it's very safe for a law to say this uprising and s.k. and what they don't want is us to get together and say this is this system is a problem and we must get rid of it so what they were very happy to do is jump on a narrative that encouraged sections of the working class to despise one another and spend their time in the end fighting one another and you know being made absolute pulls out of on both sides of this argument i mean we saw in london this week you know working class white guys doing literally fitness aleuts churchill

steps you know you can't make it up you know in their attempt to defend what they see as their culture it's not their culture on the other hand you've got you know they've been pitted against you know angry working class black and asian people who are feeling like they've had enough of the inequalities in the system all of the signs of bad all suffering from the inequalities inequities of the system and its inability to provide basic security in really simple things like jobs housing health care education you know it's the losers who benefit from all of this does. and this this this putting us down into silence of what color are you and christian hierarchy you know the better you are not the more oppressed you are the more kind of just you are to my knowledge iraq you know you know george one of the things i find really quite sickening is that you have the amazons and him silicon valley and you know put on their website black lives matter and you know what that is pure

genuflection and it's at no cost of them whatsoever it doesn't affect their bottom line it's it's an amazing cultural cover for them because if amazon actually tears about black lives then why does a treat its workers like certs ok no jeff bezos gets. a free card out free card out of jail because he can say you know he takes a knee but it doesn't affect his bottom line is better but he's become what you've been more obviously rich during this crisis. exactly and so what has happened is that this whole black cloud matter movement has been co-opted by these are. all these other. silicon valley to whom this is you know your symbolism i mean if these those really cared about black lives it could well for one thing raise the wages of all the people who work for him it doesn't he got them in. union

organizing at his workplace it doesn't mean there's no same goes for jamie diamond same goes for all of the all of these. silicon valley billionaires that you can organize so all of those things that will actually affect their bottom line they don't know and what do they do that they actually. use this black lives true or show their sapir iorio to their work was because it's their workforce that his race is not that you know. well the c.e.o.'s with billionaires we don't we're not racist but you you miserable a blight says you know who barely can make you make your rent payment you are rates and i will show you how terribly retrograde you are and so this is the end of the game played so there's really nothing radical about it because we know what's right and we know what a radical movement is

a radical movement is well look what you had with the bolsheviks you have. masses of support they will direct appeal to the last directly a feeling you're not going to go to a break in at about a short break we'll continue our discussion mochas them. some control for a middle class to who most of the night muslim are very hardworking people who want to get ahead that have either have some some health issues or have some of how destructive bad luck a full time job won't always pay for a place to live and missing just a month's rent can get you with victim to gunpoint if anything bad happens to any thing that just throws your budget off slightly. better catch up real quick or

you're going to have a judgment of possession against you and get a ticket by anyone that's homeless is history like garbage people look at you like a monster or someone bad or you chose to be there most of the time it's not the case see how it is to be pull in the world's richest country. well the match across town where all things are considered i'm peter labelle reminder we're discussing. ok let me go back to georgia right before the break you were making a point well what i think is really interesting in all this is that among

conservatives and people that are more interested in class like our guest in bristol you know i hear their refrain in it really makes me worry say you know i'm not really interested in this but the problem is is that locus them is interested in you in their economy for you go ahead george yes absolutely because what happens. workplaces at workplaces of jamie diamond and the workplaces of these laws is that white workers and black workers sent a gauge needle. how does that. you know that you're white and always be held to be racist and to be. had all kinds of news on things so you're going to have this constant tussle between the point where it was a work supposedly racism rather than over the fact that both of. almost no pay work hours palling work conditions and all of the money

is being siphoned off to the people at the top i mean it's no accident that these arses. because they were wealthy you know what her i'm getting really and why not what. they did they argue about these statues and i've seen a lot of historical artifacts out of people that are a statue with abolition abolitionists ok and they don't even know who it is open it has a statue of apparently about a white guy who listens how insane it is just to let me go back you know one of the things i find really terrifying in this is it 1st of all this whole book is a movement it is detaches itself from the rule of law to detach itself. from merrit i would say it attaches itself from. being reasonable you can't argue with these people like you know argument to plot earth are ok and the problem is as they see is this the visions that are artificially created to set us against each other is

it where is the limits if you take the knee or you lay on your stomach and you put your hands behind your back and then they want more and more and more and when what this does is it creates an enormous amount of intimidation a chilling effect and then again it gets away from the very core basic ideas that we're trying to get across on this program. absolutely i mean if we want to understand where this work culture as you describe it identity politics where it's come from it's really something which has jumped into a space that was left by a retreating class conscious working class movement you know we my lifetime has been a lifetime of seeing that movement the working class in retreat you know the socialist countries were destroyed to my mind it's all temporary but you know history goes up and down like in these last 40 years we've seen a retreat of working class forces and into the space these the working class demands equality for women. end of racism end of colonialism end of imperialism

they were they were working class to much and they still are but what's happened is with the retreats other class cultures leadership for the working class you have the chasm is a vision of these struggles and they've been transformed they've been put into separate so you don't know longer recognise that women's liberation is a class question that anti racism is a class question that anti imperialism is about class it's about the system of capitalism as well as imperialism you put them into separate silos and we've had this kind of bush was a fixation if you like of working class demands they become things that you study at university women's studies and the enemy is men and black studies and the enemy is what people you know and it's a wonderful safe narrative for imperatives and listed with the step she is as well what was was why is being pushed so hard by our media and then very much in support

of the debate of a statue because we can all discuss history and imperialist crimes become something as george said something to the parts imperialism is in existence now and it's crimes are worse than ever you know look at those the playstation was in congo that been fought in the last 15 years how many millions. died so we can play our playstation while we're not on the streets saying congolese lives matzoh well at home without play stations ignoring it you know. the salute. even does it say about our rulers in this crisis to prove the white house cat everybody should have everyone in the street i mean if they could but then you know the debts it but that's there's such a vacuum of leadership i mean the we our leaders are now part of the worst in my lifetime bar no i mean it's absolutely i mean because they're all bought off ok they're there they serve a purpose here you know george one of the things i think i find very. disheartening

is that if you really look at what's happened with the economy how it how it you know i could be exploded into the culture now into our politics here i mean this is a real boom for the studies people because every you know to fight racism black lives matter wolk ism you need an equity counselor you need a diversity counselor you need it your person the chief in this apartment and you know what all those worthless agrees that have been burned up don't last 30 years there is upward mobility there but it what they do is you taking this paradigm and they're just reinforcing all the problems we have discussed here and it feels so great doesn't it if you're right if you're the one it's there it's pointing and you know if you're if you're a priest or a priest as in this church you're elevated ok i mean this reminds me of you know kids that were pot you know sit down and get on your knees you know you know and

it's terrifying and you know what people are sit maybe going to this is extraordinary moment go ahead george yes yes exactly so what you're now creating and i don't obviously didn't create it to some time is a fast administrative clouts reality parasitical. that will be. getting another boot on the neck of the world goes. because they will be there at every workplace to point fingers at employees who create a barely able to make a living that you are a terrible retrograde person you have terrible views of women who have terrible views on terrible abuse of homosexuals don't you need to be reeducated we however you know we have you know the degrees you know we're doing very nicely thank you very much so it will be good guest you know the burden on people who are already booked and of course that that's why the j.v. diamond and the rest the room was so happy with this great rio you know i work as

would be even more miserable because they will constantly be up in the human resources office told what terrible people they are and how they must be educated so to get out of. this period and then then it is to their it vanish this managerial professional class but have all these worthless degrees and high esteem about themselves racism will never end because that's their job ok too to ever it was like in the soviet union to you ever perfect socialism you know i mean it's already perfect we're going to ever respect that a bit more they have no way knishes have to see this kind o. o. o. cultural terrorism to come to an end and if they do they'll just find another one i'll be sexism or something like that yes though they exactly are not in your bizarre. there is. yes i think george has really put his finger on something extremely important about all of this discourse and the constant substitution of

the policing of language and symbols that language in particular when you know policing language to the extent that they identity politics against police language what you're doing is shutting people out of the conversation what you're doing is telling working class you better not look you know mouth as you much you know i come from a how do you not to put it my dad is indian. amazing let's write something that makes backgrounds and through my lifetime the way people describe that has changed and these days it changes so fast i don't know what i'm supposed to say. i mean i'd a bit mixed race doesn't make sense to make it i think we're all human race so likes to explain to somebody else you know they get offended or my the hardware used the wrong word well well well said i have to do it and you know it's nothing and it being encouraged into smaller and smaller boxes you can only talk to somebody who has the exact same experience as you go to find you know often job.

who was born in 1000 i can get a budget and it was another people you know they can understand my experience so we'll be you know we can maybe be allies but really you won't get my experience and i'll never get yours and when it's posing for the ruling class because we can never ever unite we're all in a little tiny little box it's getting fragmenting ever more and you know everybody else is the enemy everything from a kind of net professional name naval base at me in my experience my playing you know fundamentally none of this changes the system as you say it encourages more privileged educated workers to despise the ones who don't have their you know education and the right. to kill a lot was keeps the poor workers out of politics and discussion altogether until they just get they had enough of being despised they can feel that it's not since you know but they don't have the leadership to explain to them how and why it's nonsense and fundamentally we're really just pitted against each other wasting our

time and our energy while the ruling class is pushing us all down and down and down you know it's really interesting here that there was those some of the wildcat strikes georgia with amazon and there was a pretty remember the gentleman's name he was trying to organize the workers and you happen to be african-american. and i know you and i saw i know you saw some interviews with him and amazon said that he was let go because you broke social distancing and he's not very articulate which i thought was so amazing because i watched the interviews with him he was very articulate to me it was because he was articulate that's what they were afraid of go ahead yes yes exactly because of course what amazon jamie diamond and the rest of them afraid of is seeing a serious lead that he is organizing among the workers here is left out is the key

to word or keep going like that and that's what you had you know which were the serious socialist revolution but the serious source of this revolution was russia and what did they do they organize among the working class and they precisely said to not let. you know the capitalist bit you against one another that's exactly what they did little they going to bit you against one another tell tell you that he's the enemy not the easy enemy and that and that which you know that's not how you organize it but now the left as embraced identity politics all with the blessing of the richest men in the world then of the restraint in the lead and there is no serious or radical movement so we have these empty symbolism of taking down statues which as you know we've said earlier does nothing to improve anyone's life that it was that he was gone now to get back to work and minimum wage so this this then is the result of a complete sort of de frank all serious left brought out of time here this was

a fascinating discussion we're going to keep doing it with both of you ok because i really think it's important for your research that's all the time we have i want to thank my guests and good guys then in bristol and i want to thank our viewers for watching us here r.p.c. a next time remember us. has changed american lives but pharmaceutical companies have a miraculous solution. based drugs to people who are chronic pain believe that their prescription is working for them and the remedy be said to. price that they pay closer dependency and addiction to opiates to long term use that really isn't scientifically justified and i'll study actually suggest that. the long term

effects might not just be absence of benefit but actually the long term. as a black lives that matter protests shaking the united states an autopsy confirms that police were responsible for the death of an african-american man in atlanta on friday. another story that shaped the weekend racism but demonstrators in seattle occupy 6 blocks of the entire city center declaring it an autonomous zone president trump demands law and order and threatens to send in the army. and as combat vehicles and the drones appear with increasing frequency of rallies across the u.s. concerns grow over the militarization of the police.