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the unwelcome across soccer all things are considered i'm you know about the people's republic of china a non-conformist utopia or a politically correct well take your pick no less the experiment being played out in seattle is no laughing matter the ideas of law and order and the legitimate use of force are at stake a piece of advice go visit shots for chasse visits you. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest and even in oslo he's an associate professor at the university of south used your norway as well as obdurate russia's economic strategy for a greater eurasia ending in los angeles we have graham elwood he is a regular on the jimmy door show as well as host of the political big man. you tube . original uncrossed up rules in effect that means in japanese i want and i always

appreciate it ok let's go to glen 1st glen well what do you make of this autonomy this region this big player i suppose republic in the center of seattle the mayor is calling it a. summer of love it's a block party but there are other reports and it's not it's not universally reported some outlets have different views than others obviously it's america there are long guns there are 6 torsion going on there is other illegal activity the social services 911 people can't get through i mean how do you look at this because under the right it's being laughed off but it's not funny in any respect that be a already step in and abandon their responsibility to their constituents how do you look at. clinics or interesting social experiment as far as political scientists

because. your 2 main things a little or 2 major ways of looking at the world are the 1st way risk humans i'm not sure condition or the state of nature acid it would be for example one side i would be peaceful organizations i'm not nor is it just a point to be gone tomorrow or we were all end up on a desert island what. a lot you know i would say also especially you know inherently good would be good to cooperate so lost in other looks a series of competition for power and destruction so this is a corporate also suggest either all of the state now if you believe the farmer is essentially the state is there's a burden if you remove it and especially freedom liberty will and other you believe . more out of the french. and then english civil war which is still not exist it goes away and then you would call it into chaos. the reason why this is interesting or if this child. whether or not it's you know

a cultural festival or on a state will be if it doesn't receive. this entire defunding and abolishing police and the stasi a new century to be a state is interesting because a failed state would essentially suggest there's more than one central power and knowing your own experience you already have. or if the u.s. government or the police at least. it seems to be listening cancer. you know there must reduce or this year. lease are gone this will be essentially come i am experimenting you know but you know it graeme you know it is something like a state but it will vary conservative ideas fight with sage you believe in borders number one they believe in it extracting resources mean some people call i mean

a lot of people in the world call taxation extortion i mean it is taking on some kind of a state like features here but once it nominally speaking you would think that they are not but they or and we have to also you could also care to rise them as colonizers they are taken over some other people's land and businesses ran untapped and. there's a. there's several interesting things that are happening here 1st of all the mainstream media the corporate media especially the local fox affiliate in seattle is making it sound like you know and fox's whole montra is keep all 'd white people scared so they're showing these radicals with guns and. lawlessness and they're extorting and that what is happening people are in and i i watched an interview ron and i watched the people on social media who are going to the autonomous zone and they're saying wait a minute. there's food none of the businesses are being extorted there's nobody

with guns and that actually seeing how the corporate media is portraying it is actually radicalizing people there's frontline medical workers e.m.t. and stuff who are going down there so what will will will give us you know medical care. misses and there's art and it's it's pretty amazing now is this going to be a work for a long term i don't i don't know but what has happened is they were the calls to defund the police seattle has done all of the reforms they've given cops sensitivity training and all this other stuff and it's none of it is work and so they're just like no and this is you know what it's going to take in america you know which is not a representative i mean you're hinting at it here i mean can you scale this thing and that is a really defined eventually because depending on the news that you like you watch ok i saw the local fox affiliates it was you know. i was disappointed with because

they they mocked it instead of telling us what is really going on and i thought that was a disservice to the viewer but speak to the scaling because really what this is all about a setting a precedent can you scale this thing or is it just a block or are you going well that's a great question peter i think that's that's what they're asking in seattle as they're they're saying is you know we want we want the people to actually have a say in our government has right now america is a kleptocracy run by oligarchy so and the what we do on than on the national level is we outspend the next 10 countries on on military we bomb poor people of color and we do the same thing locally we outspend i mean like in los angeles where i live the police get 54 percent of the operating budget it was similar in seattle and so i don't know it'll be it'll be interesting to see i think i think maybe this could work i don't know it's a but i don't think it should be mocked i don't think it should be feared i think

we should like sit and talk about it and let the let the people actually have a say in how they want to govern themselves which is i don't know this crazy idea that i think a couple of guys figured out a couple 100 years ago and it's been completely subverted by corporations. and a for profit prison system that needs to criminalize people the same way the american state department needs enemies around the world to justify its military budget we need criminals in america it's been mainly black people and people of color so everyone saying we're nothing they the younger people of this country they're done they've had it they're like we're done we're done with this and we want to we want to do it our way and. we're going to let you know i mean let me ask you kind of the same question did plenty here i mean is the scale ability of it is really what's really important here but i mean if talking about ideas that we were settled on a couple 100 years ago i know is this a democratic state i mean it is everyone getting in there. being able to.

add their voice to this here because again i'm i'm perfectly agreement with graham here i mean the coverage of it is very skewed the reason why we're doing this program because i thought it was so fascinating you know there are reports there's a warlord who used to be a rapper ok now of course that supposed to be disparaging for certain viewers it's a fair point though i mean who decides ok again scale go ahead oh i can understand the frustration you know in terms of. the skewed income inequality and extent to which diagram refer to this you know all the darky are clipped across it so i think that's reasonable. i guess. my concern with this model i believe to see no chance will be gone but it represents something marjorie to some extent. this signifies pretty much a cultural revolution and i would use the router allusion lightly you know and i

would suggest you essentially tear up the roots of your own past because you believe it will cross your future us also belief that you can build on the all teach you. you know that's how you learn in other words for example statues. if you have to ask what history will this. especially the experience of the pasta such a god afford and also realize how we've been able to prove already yes or you have to especially recognize your sins and repent straw in your own future as are your own costs and it kind of looks like they're going in this direction by analysing their history tradition culture of this is a necessity to counsel anyone your disagreement urge and set as a problem is even though it is righteous costs and i do believe that the costs are high price or sometimes. this injustice in our society however does

this is justify this you know who are jewish means to some extent. now if they believed it goes back to what i said in my introduction and in i'm doing a lot of programs on the protests the looting the ideology awoke ism and it really fundamental interest as well the i mean fundamentally you know i'm not sure how many people in the general audience know it but you know one of the very definitions of the state is it the state i mean gets to it gives to itself the legitimate use of force graham so i saw and i saw images video of long guns ok i don't know if they're real but i did see them ok i mean they take their security so seriously apparently while at the same time there's plenty of it is they're working with the city authorities so it's a dual power here grant. well i you know several things here that when you say you saw images of long guns and if that's you know you're not there i'm not there so

i'm very skeptical of those of those images because i miss them are definitely trying to like oh there's this thug rapper why i know what that is that's saying hey white america that he could be scared of blacks or overtaking i saw here in my own city of santa monica where there was looting. i was at the protests i saw the santa monica police department completely oh. and shop and riot gear and guns and then on the c.b.s. affiliate there just showing this real over and over over of like a dozen young black and coming stealing out of a shoe store and all they talked about was the looting like the looting was was worse than a cop putting his knee on the neck of a guy for 8 minutes and 45 seconds and so i just when i talk to people that there are they are in seattle in the autonomous so it is cool walking around with long guns and rappers taking control of it and i just i so right there we go i can't even we got to have the conversation of the people that are they are there and and you know we talk about they stole land well you know all of america

is stolen land i mean from indigenous brimful grant let me go come on the wrongs don't make it right you know i mean i think it's a legitimate it's a legitimate thing to ask me where were they given permission to do this that they do this on their own without consulting the people that reside there and it's a better discussion when you want to jump in but we go to the break i just want to say you know the idea that you know this eustache aside has its flaws i'm just wondering if you're told tear it down and put something in place to what extent we got it better and doesn't curious where true where does it reveal their legitimacy and authority come from because imo this woman's 1st idea was if you say the wrong thing would be violence and now i'm of the shift just saying that silence is silence and this everything becomes i was accept actual violence against those who don't agree with them so it just seems. again all over because i would like to sign up for it. it just doesn't seem clear to it where their legitimacy would come

from so far up hold out there we're going to go to a quick break and after our break in tonight you want to rush in on the people's republic of john stay with. me. others' financial life i don't buy a i pod on a teacher's. face the friday that's the last time i buy it from the future trucker watch kaiser. 6 but. you can't get away from advertisement to change your appearance. many local people see plastic surgery as a prerequisite for a successful career employers are often most interested in the job seekers

appearance as a graduation present parents often give doctors plastic surgery for an extra food in the eyelids to make their eyes look bigger. almost every korean teenager dreams of looking just a needles. some can full from middle class to homeless overnight most of them are very hardworking people who want to get ahead that either have some some health issues or have some of it out of strict about luck a full time job won't always pay for a place to live and missing just a month's rent can get you a victim to gunpoint if anything bad happens to any thing that just throws your budget off slightly. you better catch up real quick or you're going to have a judgment of possession against you and get addicted anyone that's homeless is history like garbage people look at you like

a monster or someone bad or you chose to be there most of the time it's not the case see how it is to be pole in the world's richest country. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm. we're discussing the people's republic of chops. ok grandma me let me go to it we're talking about legitimate authority what happens if this economy zone you know during the night takes 3 more blocks and then or more blocks i mean is is that an aim or they just try and do it from what you know you said you've had contact with are they trying to create a precedent are they top of the or are they demanding a conversation about what legitimate authority should be in america 2020. i think

it has i think it has more more of that heat or it's it has its roots in the occupy movement part of the occupy movement and and people from the outside the corporate all these people are just sitting around where it's their what's their cars about and they're like the whole system is broke and they're saying the all system is broken they're saying the fact that they always say in the same way america on the federal level so how are we going to pay for medicare for all but we always have money for war it's like how are we going to how we going to house the homeless how are we going to give people jobs and money for schools we never have money for that but we always have money for armored vehicles for the police and and riot gear and i think people are just like we're going to sit here in this peaceful autonomous zone and tell when we get the change that we want and not not we'll window dressing reflexive a gram you said they have money for you know militarizing the police let's let's talk about who they are and i would say it is you have. a liberal elite

that are elites that are very comfortable with the status quo did actually come to the realization they don't really need to have the country the countries in the know in x. we i mean look how this a this so whole recovery ok who's recovering recovering and who's recovered ok and who hasn't at all. let me address this think when you hear me or i have the same concerns you have plenty here but let's look at the origins of this i think that there's a lot of lot bathe in institutions right now and the reaction to the pandemic that's a long story in itself. who got concierge service 1st the richest people on the planet and now as we speak right now there are members in congress that are worried that $600.00 unemployment check is true much for people if they i mean i find it really astounding and you know my political convictions here i mean it seems so out of whack i think absolutely against whacking all of these statues down

without a communal conversation that is so important to have and because i do believe in grassroots the state level federal not so much ok but about communities and that's why i find this autonomy so i'm very very interesting you're so glenn i mean this we have a general young and young the younger generation that's gone through. 911 it's gone through the illegal war in iraq we had. the we've had depend we had a subprime crisis then we had the pandemic now we have the downturn what do these people i mean why should they believe in the system the system doesn't have anything for them as a matter of fact it made them a paper useless college degrees where they can't even get a decent job and now they're in debt i mean what what why should they join a commune like that go ahead. yeah well i don't understand i guess why this this is problematic to represented as you know liberals 1st conservatives because the

problem is they're much bipartisan that they were an area where you're out completely supporting his support or at least ruling class and also what graham largely described as a death of empire through an empire the resources from all the quarter to expand the periphery and at some point it. begins to crumble infrastructure collapse and it all just gets too great and the military comes back so i can understand why it would be good for us straight obviously at this hour at the same time i think that that political polarization has really made you know this must force because if you look at 1st you would think that this incident with george for those that it would really unify united states because using the arab league it didn't initially know when i go to nurse lee everyone was outraged. well virtually every american seemed to believe that the killing of george floyd was indefensible and that the police

needed more accountability and reforms and also it was a shared concern over this increasing inequalities in our people and how many vested interest in status quo will begin to turn a system on his head so it seems like the under that are sure we would all be on the same page however you see on one side on the right you see a chunk coming out with very certain actions and rhetoric and then left this in just as it will call for the funding to ollie's. or even disbanded and it altogether or even though there's also this shot incident and a session they stand back and especially yet they don't want to say the wrong thing in what in which people that have to choose between what they see as an irresponsible left or are there are threats here and right and it's yes but. something very ominous isner i get it i want to. get it yeah ok ok i think glenn brings up some great points about we're saying like how empires react when they're

on their last legs i mean this is reminds me of like what england did in northern ireland in the seventy's when it was on its last legs and what's happening to and you're bringing up a great point is i think a lot of the people in this and the chaz own and other protests are realizing the democratic party hasn't done anything i mean them they're literally like like in los angeles we have you know a democratic mayor ghar city who refuses to call out the brutality of the cops the l.a.p.d. was shooting people with rubber bullets friends of mine independent media people were being shot with rubber bullets 2 weeks ago and eric our study big liberal democrat won't do anything jackie lacy who is the district attorney for the city of los angeles is alysa democrat she's a black woman she won't prosecute a cop at all and that there are they're starting to realize that like the republican party is the cop with their knee on the neck and the democrats are the cop standing around letting it happen so that's what a lot of this autonomous zone is getting back to the earlier discussion is like

it's like we're done with the whole system we see the whole system's broken up let's admit it the that's a good point and i think me on this program have had a good critique of it but it glenn also talked about the extremes on both sides and let's talk about this one woke is i mean i'm really quite terrifying i find it really intimidating i don't see how it really solves any problems so you know it can be gained a sack shoot some racism is come to an end i don't see how that changes your consciousness my problem is here is that and it surprises a lot of people over and over again this is a class issue it's not a culture issue and i'm so sick and tired of white liberals from east coast west coast schools you know they're getting on the bandwagon here so they can be a diversity director and some b. corporation and just keep the whole thing rolling ok. and in what you do see if you release the pressure from that cop grave people that feel like the they they don't have a stake in society so what you do is you in belo them and then you just police everybody

police everybody's words and you know you're you're victimisation a little bit more than that guys you know and you all in silos you know this is a bit and then there's no end to it and it goes on and on and on and i don't see how that helps average working people suffering 2030 1000000 people unemployed there are 30000000 emergencies and we're talking about statues. defacing a statue that was it a person that was sued for abolition in the 1st place to these people even know what the word abolition means graham you know like. well you know you can't take lightly there's a severe white nationalist issue or a problem in this country a young black man and was literally lynched over the weekend in palmdale california they hung him from a tree outside of the courthouse in 2020 this just happened you know in seattle you had a white nationalist get in his car drive through

a peaceful protest and then pull out a gun gun sales have gone up i agree this is absolutely a class issue and i would love to see more people address that but you can't get her 10 that there isn't i mean there's bridges candidate to be it fair then. be equally critical of it. well before i address that the ante for thing let me just say this there's video after video of cops are texting white nationalists and cops being white nationalists so that's what the symbology of throwing the statues down is and to with regard to end chief i want to toss once this big scary thing and see this stance for anti fascist so that means my 2 uncles that fought world war 2 are anti 5 so but can you put planned parenthood as it is a misnomer to look a it's an abortion industry ok so let's say it away from labels that it's not about what it means ok people and my friends i just say so so and people why there's

there is and he has done violent things what well and 1st of all it is not an organization that there's no membership card and some people within are saying they're in tif and doing but of course of course there's people overreacting on any sides and then you've got i wouldn't trust a private intelligence is probably putting members and either side and the proud boys i want to argue with each other absolutely reinforcing each other's point here ok let me go to glenn here because if we could because it is so tempting because it everything is so polarized to be in sucked into the culture wars and i want to get out of those because i don't even though i can understand the parents and the pain of many people i do believe that we deal with the inequalities the economic inequalities and the inequalities of opportunity i think that we didn't it that would start addressing these cultural things but i don't see the elites have any interest in doing that they love the squabbling they will love it because you know

what no one's going to talk about. bailing out billionaires and war money than god ok because when you start talking about things a lot of people say we got a lot more in common than we thought ahead. i think that's the case they got this is an issue of. i don't just point out of this we with this labels i think you. know the problem is for example was on t.v. if it sounds a fascist 1 yes i know we're all signed up for it but i mean how to support a group of cults amount of just so must get my smatter i think everyone will hold hopefully wrong agree that yes they matter but as i mean you have to support this one group and i'm just afraid that it could become very simply simplistic if you call her something virtuous and people who do not support their political cause which is rather on clearwater objective and means are then somehow you know what you might think that lies at my cost matter and it will become very. dangerous

to go down so again this is. yes censorship. that's actually the new people trying to take over basing their authority. yes of their yes or yes especially as i would be i guess i would be my key concern are well gentlemen we run out of time here but we all are to have taken an interest in this place called chas and we're going to be keeping an eye on it and let's start putting out the cultural wars and get on to what really matters that's all the time we have to want to thank my guests. glen and graham and i want to thank our viewers for watching us the r.t.c. next i mean remember. i know to no crowd. no shots.

actually well to be. no 1st. point sure your thirst for action. nuclear power plants have become a battleground in the u.s. in vermont people are demanding the shutdown of a local plant from my yankee is right now my focus because it's a very dangerous oh no clare power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limit this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on where's the power in this country where's it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy is

a power line with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in the very real ways our struggle on r.t. . nationwide health worker rallies in france turned violent with medics demanding the government keep its pandemic promises to support medical also ahead. korean relations worsened further just the day after blowing up a diplomatic facility the north to resume war games in the to militarize borders own warns its neighbor will pay a price. and hitting.