hello and welcome across town where all things are considered i'm you know about the people's republic of china a non-conformist utopia or a politically correct well take your pick nonetheless the experiment being played out in seattle is no laughing matter the ideas of law and order and the legitimate use of force are at stake a piece of advice go visit chas before chasse visits you. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest and these and in oslo he's an associate professor at the university of southeast your norway as well as author of russia's economic strategy for a greater eurasia ending in los angeles we have graham bell which is a regular on the jimmy door show as well as

a host of the political big manti you tube or a gentleman crossed up rules in effect that means in japanese i don't want and i always appreciate it ok let's go to atlanta 1st but what do you make of this autonomy is reaching the south big claim i suppose republic in the center of seattle the mayor is calling it a. summer of love it's a block party but there are other reports and it's not it's not universally reported some outlets have different views than others obviously it's america there are long guns there's extortion going on there is other illegal activity the social services 911 people can't get through i mean how do you look at this because under the right it's being laughed off but it's not funny in any respect that the authorities. and abandon their responsibility to their constituents how do you look at this i visited. clinics are interesting social experiments for any political

scientists because. your 2 main things alluded to major ways of looking at the world are 1st weight was human of the natural condition of all or the state of nature would be for example one side i would be peaceful organizations i'm not nor is it just state would be gone tomorrow or we were all end up on a desert island what. a lot you know i would see us all as you know inherently good would be good to cooperate so lost in other looks a series of competition for power and destruction so this is of course because they just won't be the role of the state now if you believe the former is essentially the state yes there is a burden if you remove it and especially freedom liberty will and other you believe . more out of the french. and then english civil war would assume that exist it goes away and then you would call it into chaos. there is what is

interesting with this child whether or not it's cultural festival or a. state will be if it doesn't or a sense. this entire defunding and abolishing police and a new essentially it was effectively a state is interesting because a failed state would essentially suggest there's more than one hour and now you expect you already have when. i said that. the us government or the police at least . that seems to be listening to answer a certain as yet there must reduce or this year. at least are gone this will be essential tonight experiment you know but you know he graham you know it is functioning like a state but it will vary conservative prettiest i would say age they believe in borders number one they believe. extracting resources maybe some people call i mean

a lot of people in the world call taxation extortion i mean it is taking on some kind of a state might features here but once it nominally speaking you would think that they are not particularly or and we have to also you could also care through eyes that miss colonizers they're taking over some other people's land and businesses ran on top of. this several interesting things that are happening here 1st of all the mainstream media the corporate media especially by the local fox affiliate in seattle is making it sound like you know and fox's whole montra is keep all white people scared so they're showing these radicals with guns and. lawlessness and they're extorting and that what is happening people are in and i i watched an interview ranta coned and i watched of the people on social media who are going to the autonomous zone and they're saying

wait a minute there's food none of the businesses are being extorted there's nobody with guns and that actually seeing how the corporate media is portraying it is actually radicalizing people there is frontline medical workers e.m.t. who are going down there say will will will will give us you know medical care. misses and there's art and it's it's pretty amazing now is this going to be a work for a long term i don't i don't know but what has happened is they were the calls to defund the police seattle has done all of the reforms they've given cops sensitivity training and all this other stuff and it's none of it is work and so they're just like no and this is you know what it's going to take in america you know which is not a representative of the mc and a superior hinting at it here i mean can you scale this thing and that is a really to fundamentally question because depending on the news i. watch ok i saw

the local fox affiliates it was you know. i was disappointed with because they they mocked it instead of telling us what's really going on and i thought that was a disservice to the viewer but speak to the scaling because really what this is all about a setting a precedent can you scale this thing or is it just a block are you going well that's a great question peter i think that's that's what they're asking in seattle as they're they're saying is you know we want we want the people to actually have a say in our government has right now america is a kleptocracy run by oligarchy so and the what we do on than on the national level is we outspend the next 10 countries on on military we are people of color and we do the same thing locally we outspend i mean like in los angeles where i live the police get 54 percent of the operating budget it was similar in seattle and so i don't know it'll be it'll be interesting to see i think i think maybe this could work i don't know it's

a but i don't think it should be mocked i don't think it should be feared i think we should like sit and talk about it and let the let the people actually have a say take a couple of guys figured out a couple 100 years ago and it's been completely subverted by corporations and a for profit prison system that needs to criminalize people. the same way the american state department needs enemies around the world to justify its military budget we need criminals in america it's been mainly black people and people of color so everyone saying we're nothing they the younger people of this country they're done they've had it they're like we're done we're done with this and we want to we want to do it our way and. we're going to let you know i mean let me ask you kind of the same question did plenty here i mean is the scale ability of it is really what's really important here but i mean if it came out ideas that we settled on a couple 100 years ago i know is this a democratic state i mean it is everyone getting in there. being able to.

add their voice to this here because again i'm i'm perfectly agreement with graham here i mean the coverage of it is very skewed the reason why we're doing this program because i thought it was so fascinating you know there are reports there's a warlord who used to be a rapper ok now of course that supposed to be disparaging for certain viewers it's a fair point though i mean who decides ok again scale go ahead oh i can understand the frustration you know in terms of. the skewed income inequality and extent to which graham refer to. you know oligarchies or click to cross it so i think that's reasonable. i think that's. my concern with this model i believe to see our chance will be gone but it represents something marjorie to some extent it this ng the ice pretty much a cultural revolution i would use the rouge unlikely you know and that would

suggest you essentially tear up the roots of your own pos because you believe it will cross your future us also belief that you can build on the all teach you. you know that's how you learn in other words for example statures if you have to ask what history will this. especially that experience of the. hospices your guide to ford and also realize how you've been able to prove over the years or you have to especially recognize your students and straw in your own future as are your own boss and it kind of looks like they're going this direction by announcing their history os traditional culture of this is a necessity to counsel everyone your disagreement urge. as if the problem is even though it is a righteous cost and i do believe that the costs are the price you're sometimes. on this injustice in our society however does this justify this you know are just

means to some extent because you know if they do that that goes back to what i said in my introduction and i'm doing a lot of programs on the protests the looting the ideology awoke ism and it really fundamentally want to just as well the i mean fundamentally you know i'm not sure how many people in the general audience know it but you know one of the very definitions of the state is it the state i mean gets to its it gives to itself the legitimate use of force graham so i saw and i saw images video of long guns ok i don't know if they're real but i did see them ok i mean they take their security so seriously apparently well at the same time there's plenty of it is they're working with the city authorities so it's a dual power here grant why you know several things here that when you say you saw images of long guns and i thought seeking you know you're not there i'm not there

so one i'm very skeptical of those of those images because reason are definitely trying to like oh there's this thug rapper why i know what that is that's saying hey white america it could be scared of blacks or overtaking i saw here in my own city of santa monica where there was looting. i was at the protests i saw the santa monica police department completely oh. and shop and riot gear and guns and then on the c.b.s. affiliate there just showing this real over and over over of like a dozen young black and coming stealing out of a shoe store and all they talked about was the looting like the looting was was worse then a cop putting his knee on the neck of a guy for 8 minutes and 45 seconds and so i just when i talk to people that there are they are in seattle in the autonomous so it is cool walking around with long guns and rappers taking control of it and i just i so right there we all i can you know we got to have the conversation of the people that are they are there and and you know we talk about they stole land well you know all of

america is stolen land i mean from indigenous from grant let me go go much neurons don't make it right you know i mean i think it's a legitimate it's a legitimate thing to ask me where were they given permission to do this that they do this on their own without consulting the people that reside there and it's a fair discussion when you want to jump in but we go to the break i just want to say you know i knew the idea that you know this you know state aside has its flaws i'm just wondering if you're told tear it down and put something in place 20 except we got it better and doesn't cure is where true where does it reveal their legitimacy and authority come from because among this woman's force. if you say the wrong thing would be violence and now you know the shift just saying that silence is silence and this everything becomes i was accept actual violence against those who don't agree with them so it just seems. i get a lot of the cos i would like to sign up for it. it just doesn't seem clear to

it where their legitimacy would come from so far up the hole that there were going to go to a quick break in after our return to new were discussions of the people's republic of john stay with. me. we go to work some straight home.

some can fall from middle class to homeless overnight muslim are very hardworking people who want to get ahead that have either have some some health issues or have some of the others trick about luck a full time job won't always pay for a place to live and missing just a month's rent can get you a victim to gunpoint if anything bad happens to any thing that just throws your budget off slightly. you better catch up real quick or you're going to have a judgment of possession against you and get a ticket by anyone that's homeless is history like garbage people look at you like a monster or someone bad or you chose to be there most of the time it's not the case see how it is to be pull in the world's richest country. welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm futile of ultra mind you we're discussing the people's republic of china.

ok graham let me let me go to you we're talking about legitimate authority what happens if this economy zone. you know during the night takes 3 more blocks and then or more blocks i mean is is that an aim or are they just trying to from what you know you said you've had contact with are they trying to create a precedent are they top of the or are they demanding a conversation about what legitimate authority should be in america in 2020. i think it has i think it has more and more of that peter its it has its roots in the occupy movement part of the occupy movement and and people from the outside the corporate all these people are just sitting around where it's their what's their cause about and they're like the whole system is broke and they're saying the whole system is broken they're seeing the fact that they always say in the same way america on the federal level so how are we going to pay for medicare for all but we

always have money for war it's like how are we going to feel how we're going to house the homeless how we're going to give people jobs and money for schools we never have money for that but we always have money for armored vehicles for the police and and riot gear and i think people are just like we're going to sit here in this peaceful autonomous zone and tell when we get the change that we want and not not we'll window dressing reform except graham you said they have money for you know militarizing the police let's let's talk about who they are and i would say it is you know a liberal elite but our elites that are very comfortable with the status quo did actually come to the realization they don't really need to have the country because he's an annoyance act so we i mean look how this a this so whole recovery ok who's recovering recovering and who's recovered ok and who hasn't at all let me address this that when you know i mean i have the same

concerns you have plenty here but listen look at the origins of this i think that there's a lot of lot to bathe in institutions right now and the reaction to the pandemic that's a long story in itself. who got concierge service 1st the richest people on the planet. and now as we speak right now there are members in congress that are worried that $600.00 unemployment check is true much for people if they i mean i find it really astounding and you know my political convictions here i mean it seems so out of whack i think absolutely against whacking all of these statues down without a communal conversation that is so important to have and because i do believe in grassroots the state level federal not so much ok but about communities and that's why i find this autonomy so i'm very very interesting you're so glenn i mean this we have a general young and young the younger generation that's gone through. 911 it's gone

through the illegal war in iraq we had. the we've had to pandemic we had a subprime crisis then we had the pandemic now we have the downturn what do these people i mean why should they believe in the system the system doesn't have anything but then it's a matter of fact it made them a paper useless college degrees where they can't even get a piece in general and now they're in debt i mean what what why should they join a commune like that go ahead. yeah well i don't understand i guess why this this is problematic to represented as you know liberals 1st conservatives because the problem is they're much bipartisan that they want the area we're out completely supporting this or. at least ruling class and also what graham largely described as a death of empire through an empire the resources from all the quarter to expand the periphery and at some point it. begins to crumble infrastructure collapse and

it all just gets too great and the military comes back so i can understand why it would be best for us straight obviously at this hour at the same time i think that that political polarization has really made you know this much worse because if you look at 1st you would think that this incident with george for the us and it would really unify united states because using the arab league it didn't initially know when i go to nurse lee everyone was outraged. over actually remarried seem to believe that the killing of george floyd was indefensible and that the police needed more accountability and reforms and also it was a shared concern over this increasing inequalities in our people and how many vested interest in status quo will begin to turn a system on his head so it seems like the under the pressure we would all be on the same page however you see on one side on the right you see a chunk coming out with very yep certain actions and rhetoric and then the left

this in just as people call for the funding to ollie's. or even disbanded and it altogether or even though there's also this shot incident and a specialist on back end especially yet they don't want to say the wrong thing in what in which people that have to choose between what they see as an irresponsible left or are there are threats that are and right and it's yes but. something very important position or i want i want to. get it yeah ok ok i think glenn brings up some great points about we're saying like how empires react when they're on their last legs i mean this is reminds me of like what england did in northern ireland in the seventy's when it was on its last legs and what's happening to and you're bringing up a great point is i think a lot of the people in this and the chaz own and other protests are realizing the democratic party hasn't done anything i mean them they're literally like like in

los angeles we have you know a democratic mayor gar city who refuses to call out the brutality of the cops the l.a.p.d. was shooting people with rubber bullets friends of mine independent media people were being shot with rubber bullets 2 weeks ago and eric are steady big liberal democrat won't do anything jackie lacey who is the district attorney for the city of los angeles missile is a democrat she's a black woman she won't prosecute a cop at all and there are they're starting to realize that like the republican party is the cop with their knee on the neck and the democrats are the cop standing around letting it happen so that's what a lot of this autonomous zone is getting back to the earlier discussion is like it's like we're done with the whole system we see the whole system's broken up let's admit to that that's a good point and i think me on this program have had a good critique of it but it glenn also talked about the extremes on both sides and let's talk about this one woke is i mean i'm really quite terrifying i find it really intimidating i don't see how it really solves any problems so you know it

can be gained a statute so racism is come to an end i don't see how that changes your consciousness my problem is here is that it surprises a lot of people over and over again this is a class issue it's not a culture issue and i'm so sick and tired of white liberals from east coast to west coast schools you know they're getting on the bandwagon here so they can be a diversity director in some big corporation and just keep the whole thing rolling ok. and in what you do see if you release the pressure from that cop grave people that feel like the they they don't have a stake in society so what you do is you in belo them and then you just police everybody please everybody's words and you know your victim is they should a little bit more than that guys you know but you all in silos you know this is a bit and then there's no end to it and it goes on and on and on and i don't see how that helps average working people suffering 2030 1000000 people unemployed there are 30000000 emergencies and we're talking about statues. defacing

a statue that was a person that was sued for abolition in the 1st place to these people even know what the word abolition means graham you know like. well you know you can't take lightly there's a severe white nationalist issue or a problem in this country a young black man and was literally blanched over the weekend in palmdale california they hung him from a tree outside of the courthouse in 2020 this just happened you know in seattle you had a white nationalist get in his car drive through a peaceful protest and then pull out a gun gun sales have gone up i agree this is absolutely a class issue and i would love to see more people address that but you can't get her 10 that there isn't i mean there's bridges candidate to be it fear then would you eat be equally critical of empty firma. well well before i address that the

ante for thing let me just say this there's video after video of cops are texting white nationalists and cops being white nationalists so that's what the symbology of throwing the statues down is and to with regard to and chief everyone talks about is this big scary thing and stands for anti fascist so that means my 2 uncles that fought world war 2 are anti 5 so but can you put planned parenthood as it is a misnomer to look a it's an abortion industry ok so let's say it away from labels that it's not about what it means ok people and my friends i just say so so and people why there's there is and he has done violent things what well it 1st of all it is not an organization that there's no membership card and some people within are saying they're in tif and doing but of course of course there's people overreacting on any sides and then you've got i wouldn't trust a private intelligence is probably putting members and either side and the proud

boy's sister up i want to do with each other absolutely reinforcing each other's point here ok let me go to glenn here because if we could because it is so tempting because it everything is so polarized to be in sucked into the culture wars and i want to get out of those because i don't know even though i can understand the parents and the pain of many people i do believe that we deal with the inequalities the economic inequalities and the inequalities of opportunity i think that we didn't it that would start addressing these cultural things but i don't see the elites have any interest in doing that they love the squabbling they will love it because you know what no one's going to talk about. bailing out billionaires now or money than god ok because when you start talking about them to think a lot of people say we've got a lot more in common than we thought ahead. i think that's the case they got this is an issue of. plus why don't we just point out this we with this labels i think

you and the other problem is for example was on t.v. fired if it's anti-fascist yes i know we're all signed up for it but i mean how to support a group of cults amount of just so must get my smatter i think everyone will hold hopefully wrong agree that yes they matter but as i mean you have to support is one group and i'm just afraid that it could become very simple simplistic if you call her something virtuous and people who do not support their political cost which is rather on clearwater objective and means are then somehow you know you might not think that lies at my cost matter and it will become very. dangerous to go out so again this is. yes censorship. the new people try to say they are basing their authority on. yes they were yes r.s.s. this already i guess i will be mikey i'll start here well gentlemen we run out of

time here but we all have are to have taken an interest in this place called chas and we're going to be keeping an eye on it and let's start putting out the cultural wars and get on to what really matters that's all the time we have i want to thank my guests. glen and graeme and i want to thank our viewers watching us here are you next i mean remember. you cannot be both with me yeah you're right. my.

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day there's thinks. we dare to ask. nuclear power become a battleground in the us in vermont people are demanding the shut down of a local plant from my yankee is right now my focus because it's a very dangerous oh no claire power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limit this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on where's the power in this country where's it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional the just a very dramatic or seize power lie with the people this case demonstrates that

struggle in very real ways our struggle on auty. welcoming our viewers from around the world live from central london this is r.t. u.k. . the prime minister is accused of complacency over how the government has handled poverty during the coronavirus pandemic that's as charities want to buy debts nightmare for those on universal credit and a lack of clarity for the most vulnerable i'll be talking to a public health consultant. can manage just say the government 600000000 pound grant to combat covert 19 is useless as it doesn't cover expenses before the peak of the pandemic one care home boss tells r.t. u.k. it's simply a p.r. exercise. we're only. going to. get. a report reveals migrant children are being detained in claustrophobic and

i'm satisfactory conditions in u.k. airports for excessively long periods of time we hear from human rights lawyer. charities have warned the governments that the coronavirus pandemic has created a debt nightmare for the country's most vulnerable families that's as the prime minister denied poverty is on the rise during his weekly crash with the opposition leader well for more on this i'm joined by r.t. you case is surrounded by there isa so what's been going on what we've already seen this week is the real work carried out by the united in england striker marcus rushford to raise money more than 20000000 pounds to help fundable families across the u.k. but also to force the government into a u. turn when it comes to the issue of support and free lunch support for children from

poor backgrounds over the course of the some of the governor. making that once more the issue of poverty coming up again at prime minister's questions today with boris johnson defending the conservative government's record over the past decade saying that poverty in. his fall and also in terms of the number of families no longer living in poverty under conservative rule however the leader of the opposition stating that actually that statement by the prime minister doesn't tally with the figures released in a recent report. absolute poverty relative poverty have both declined under these government and there are hundreds of 1000 of the 400000 fewer families living in poverty now than there were in 2010 i'll just read a direct quote from a government report the government commission produced last week which says it's

gone up 560-0000. the social mobility commission has a clear answer to my question this anticipated rise in child poverty is driven is not driven by forces beyond our control i take the promise to the number 600000 he didn't reply the record goes on to say and this is a real cause for concern of the prime minister's children you might want to listen real cause for concern because the commission goes on i'm sure the plan is to read the report what it is even. if they are really concerned that these projections were made 5200000 before the impact of 99 i want to say which we expect to push more families into poverty. that comes as a survey conducted by save the children and the joseph rowntree foundation found that 2 thirds of families in universal credit were facing a debt nightmare now 70 percent of respondents said they had to cut back on food or essential items 50 percent said they were behind on rent or bills 86

percent said that they hadn't experienced an increase in household costs 60 percent saying that the pandemic has forced them to borrow money while there have been calls for a 20 pound increase in child support payments though of course all of these issues which were impacting families before this crisis hit but of course the pandemic is really bringing into focus those difficulties some families will face because of course that is what has been those workers perhaps in the law at the lower end of the scale in the lower paying jobs in those industries which have been hit by coven 1000 who have been hit the hardest. i'd also research not just the families this is not just people with children they're being affected no absolutely there are those who are in addition to being impacted economically are also at risk physically medically the 2200000 people who are shielding as

a result of perhaps awaiting cancer treatments or otherwise having low immune systems or weaker immune systems are really in a bit of a limbo unaware of exactly what to do next but not a hancock the health secretary says the government will be updating those people as to whether they need to continue shielding or not now and we've also been hearing from the trussell trust that the biggest network of food banks across the u.k. they say that they've been putting out double the number of food parcels since the pandemic began just highlighting the real need around some parts of the country and it comes as government of announced 900000 palm a cove for the aria voyager aircraft which is the cross which carries the prime minister in his trips around the world leading some to criticize at this point in time when the government have their priorities the right place and he said thank you very much indeed. well as we're hearing from a set health charities have called for clarity on the future of those shielding

from coronavirus amid a lack of government advice but public health consultant professor keith neal told me a catch all solution is impossible. government's got some responsibility but if it can't issue guidance for 2200000 people with totally different conditions because if you've had if you've got a person with bad heart disease is a completely different risk to someone with multiple myeloma or even somebody with bone cancer just completely different risks it also depends where you live because if you live in a crowded city then you probably more at risk of meeting people but if you live in a rural village there's quite likely no covert 19 and you need anywhere near where you live and it's a matter of what activities you do as well or one of the main problems of the growth of the government has been that they don't give care enough advice so how can it improve going forward i don't think the government can actually give advice for different end this is an individual problem and they can give advice saying

these were the shielding groups and in fact the row college of paediatricians and child health has now come out saying that any person being managed by the general practitioner alone probably doesn't require shielding well what the july dates that apparently has been put forward that apparently seem to coincide with the end of the food and medicine delivery is also a consideration is nothing. i think the whole point is that money isn't out of this equation because we need to have a situation where we can afford to have services and there are issues of how much debt is being built up there are clearly going to be some people who are very high risk and will probably be showing regardless whether they was covert 19 or not and clearly they will have to continue. care home managers in the u.k. have criticized the government for offering what they call a useless 600000000 pounds to combat covert 19 the government says the money was part of

a 3200000000 pound package to help local authorities combat coronavirus but managers claim it hasn't helped with the cost of protective kit just before the peak as any money spent before the announcement isn't covered well a care home manager who lost her main anonymous told r.t. that the support is too middle to late. the last that we will make and when we get home. when we aren't spending when we are not sure and or anything . in the home. that money is ordered to be used it is going. to or just on the last things that would be in under control. and many of our homes are to be in how to use this money. really who really wrote. when it just really. is pretty good wish it were different in the loop but.

it's. we will just have to. if more money bark. ok i was have been hit hard by coronavirus just under 30 percent of the u.k.'s covert 900 s. of being care homes in england and wales totaling more than 16000 people according to official figures government failings have been blamed with patients discharged back into homes without testing in adequate supplies of p.p.a. and the watering down of official guidance on rotating agency staff but mrs maintained they have been working hard to help care homes battle the virus since this pandemic began we have been working flat out to support social care sector jorgen oliva's that government has to help social care providers look after the people in their care the 600000000 pound infection control fund is intended to support the delivery of the care home support package which sets out the next steps

local councils and care homes should be taking to stamp out the spread of covert 19 but the care home manager who spoke to r.t. believes the funding package is more about pilo than solving the problems really feelings when we're only exposed to believe it's because when. things are new media and been used to make their move. as they have done things. to visit will be good we know. but in the industry when it. is not done we move 1st. always firms. who will not be. coming up after the break. a report finds migrant children are being detained for hours at airport detention centers and dr crabtree it was we hear from

a human rights lawyer. to. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. i know team no crowd. no shots no. actual

news delta. going to let me stress no 1st 12. points your thirst for action. the world is driven by dreamers shaped by phone personally those words. no dares thinks. we dare to ask.

welcome back a report has revealed that child migrants are being detained for long periods in cramped conditions in airport facilities the sun being held for more than 24 hours the independent monitoring board for london heathrow and city airports raise concerns after finding that children are being detained in small rooms with no natural light or fresh air and some are on the company it is report also highlighted that detainees have no access to their medication minimal access to me good vice and a sometimes subjected to rough handling upon removal the board concluded that the detention facility is a both airports are on satisfactory for you speed on the few hours its chest says that while staff members may be supportive the detention process can be incredibly distressing for detainees. overall we have found many detention to underscore staff to be caring and sympathetic to the detainees they have to manage including

vulnerable individuals and families however detention is often an isolating and uncomfortable experience especially for those individuals who are waiting for long periods of tired and that excess after their flight and in some cases are fearful of what will happen to them if they are sent back to their own country will of course show that almost 2000 children were held in london heathrow and city airport attention centers in the period between february 29th t. and january 2020 and while the board say lengths of stay longer than a few hours around satisfactory 73 children were kept there for more than 12 and 14 minors were detained for longer than 24 hours or spawning to the concerns the home office has said that it's moving to resolve the issues raised. detention is an important tool in the immigration system but it is vital that is carried out with dignity respect and protect the most vulnerable as this report recognizes we have already made improvements particularly in relation to managing detainees with

mental health issues we will continue to look for ways to improve detention provoke the care and welfare of detainees that are affected and if through force for move or in the u.k. of those who do not have the legal right to be here. or to discuss the issue of migrant children detention conditions are now joined by human rights shwed and car trips thank you for joining us what do you make of the report's findings the words they use are cost rough a bit cramped and unsatisfactory. and yes i mean obvious to some good use it obviously it's children that we're talking about this quite vulnerable people like there's only like was mentioned and they're actually taking it was medication away until and doctor and the you can't say can recommend or prescribe it or allow them to take it and that can go on for hours so no it's not great and have them obviously we just heard this statement from the home office but yes there might have been improvements from previous years but obviously with the you know

particularly concerning thing is that the scene recommendations out to be made again and again repeatedly every year or so these issues about this space not me and are they not mean fresh air they're not being and not a lie you know even issues about the showers the condition of the toilets other things i mean these are issues that have to be raised again and again and again and yet the home office just didn't seem to be taken seriously by the high loss of the office as we saw there they have responded saying there has been an acknowledgement that things do need to change. yes i mean i mean yes every year we want to report comes out there is an accomplishment that we will do better we will change these things but obviously they haven't changed and for instance or their reports about luck of internet access like been missing for several years now people in those conditions of talent from other countries arrived in the u.k. many of them quite vulnerable many of them alone at different ages different health and they need to be able to contact their families abroad and they are not able to

do that if they don't have direct access to the internet or indeed even if internet access is monitored and i think that's something quite straightforward that if the home office resolve to do something about it doesn't necessarily need a huge amount of resources to do but it's just a matter of them of us taking it seriously and realizing that this is something that is people actually need is not a matter of huge luxury to be able to provide these people with fresh air or natural light or proper seating facilities or access to the internet or indeed they're on medication it's just a matter of understanding this is something very basic just trying to humanitarian basis some that people need if you're going to keep them there potentially alone for hours or. at times for days but how can they improve the conditions and to do it quickly as well. and yes i mean like i said i think it's very straightforward you know for instance people don't have access to the medication you know they confiscate the medication get in touch with a doctor you know fuel consumption the doctor and is going to come back in 10 hours

make sure that that's within half an hour an hour or 2 hours i would up drum hall and have a paramedic someone else a chemist on hand who can either dispense medication orders or pill the medication the passenger has seen with internet access obviously have internet access in these in you know at these airports the whole matter is it's considered that these are not people who somehow deserve the internet access of it is something that can be arranged you know natural light can't be have rooms with windows i mean all of these things are not really you know they're not rocket science they're not something that look by a great resources is just a matter of ensuring that people have access to that money times has the government be made aware of the extent of poor airport detention conditions and whatever the times and like the report says m m n n as the home office acknowledges you know they've made improvements so for instance you know now that this time they made an extra sense lost and the region in terms of the care got it right to improve mental health issues before they were highway to that but obviously all the other issues have been highlighted for years

as well so this is an annual biannual account report that comes out and most of the recommendations are seem to be the same so renting internet access you know access to medication and so on have been raised so many times but it just seems the home office doesn't care so are you anticipating any changes that. i mean it's hard to say i mean to be honest one would have thought you know the 1st time this was raised it you know even if it didn't have to actually be reused right 3rd party that one of us would have taken action so i mean in terms of the you know the the fact that we don't really need any major infrastructure change or no particular result says it's not something that would take a huge amount of time you know with that but from that perspective they will think you know view them up so do it and it is something they can go quite quickly quite easily but considering they've not done it for so long and it's not something i hold out much hope for webb and can thank you very much indeed feel for thinking.

well it's been revealed the u.k. government's coronavirus contact tracing app is still undergoing testing a month after it was meant to be rolled out nationally while the health minister in charge lord bethel has admitted to the commons science and technology committee that it might not even be ready by the end of the year. around the world have been challenging and i know the norwegians singapore and french and others have all me work and. i really since. we seem to get something going for the winter and it isn't a priority for us. well the prisoner launched or revealed at the beginning of may when it was piloted on the isle of wight off the south coast of england it was expected to be rolled out across the country a few weeks later but new documents are shown the app is still in an 11 week low testing program and the government hasn't committed to a firm date for its release the app was meant to be the central pillar of the government's overall contact tracing program which is going through a subtle name change. today i want to update you with the latest plans for

a program of test track and trace of course we're developing the contact tracing act which can help us deliver test track and trace on the mass scale that we need cross the country helpers take more measures to come out of lockdown of course the prime minister tusk dido and i with delivering a test and trace system testing for the virus and tracing how it spreads is critical to containing it or the lack of tracing capacity means the system relies on patients handing over contact data this meant that between may the 28th and june the 3rd traces were unable to contact around a 3rd of coded 19 positive patients were absent circumvent this issue and directly contact those who may have come into contact with the patient and the u.k. government has also come under scrutiny for its use of a so-called centralized model for storing data and plans to store that data for up

to 20 years well u.k. government also rejected the chance to use an app template created by apple and google and opted to create its own. where i was joined by cyber security expert peter warren he thinks the government still has a lot of work to do. there are big problems with the bluetooth technology it is being used which is radio technology which is meant to let people know when. about to come into contact with somebody who has had the virus according to people that we've spoken to before but it's subsequent to research institute and future intelligence the data is too noisy and so there is consideration which is worrying a lot of previously activists there has been some discussion about using g.p.s. states or as well which will scan a lot of people put the problem with this is that you have to have a lot of people who are prepared to provide information to prepared to sign up to

the service 'd and they won't sign up to the service if they think the previous e. is going to be impugned what you mean by saying is to noise think of too noisy simply means that you can't get an accurate enough picture so it means that for instance the bluetooth radio may not be working to securely well. you know for example they could be somebody in the next still reading to me over in the next door house and it could alert me to the fact that there is somebody in the next door house who's got coronavirus are coronavirus isn't an issue in that sort of situation by bomb ups that we used extensively in east asia and many people say that those countries have had the best response to the virus so why does it seem to be so hard to implement something like that. it seems to be because of the government's insistence on the model that they're trying to use a lot if they were minus 2 points you know this is essential

a system is the issue in the u.k. that's that's definitely the issue in a state one of the things that you can do because of the regimes that they have that is you can essentially impose upon people that they do carry around the technology so in south korea people were close to do it and in china people were forced to do it now here we don't have those sorts of regimes. rattling charity shops may not be enough to save the charitable sector according to m.p.'s on the digital culture media and sport can i see the politicians say that more government assistance is needed with the shops themselves already facing big risk fictions martin andrius takes a look at how the sector is coping and reopening the lockdown easing phenolic central shops in england has seen hundreds of popular high street stores open their doors to charity shops which couldn't have come soon enough charities generally

have suffered the absolute is usually on basically their income sort of more has dropped off a cliff at the end of march but the demand for their services has actually never being never been great. one of the great things about charity shops is that they can start reopening from pretty much a sort of like has not provided cash and pretty much the time when they get it when they reopen and that though it doesn't come as a major relief to the church is the norm so yeah it has been very troubling times but let's hope we can see the back of it now and on was it upwards. there are over $11200.00 charity shops in the u.k. the british heart foundation oxfam cancer research u.k. but are those c. rider salvation army and aids hugh gay and together have a combined income of over 800000000 pounds a year although not in 2020 while wales northern ireland and scotland remain closed england has now reopened stores in a staggered way but strict measures apply. this charity shop opened on monday but

it's certainly not business as usual the changing rooms are closed all customers including myself are required to wear a face mask they're told to sanitize their hands on arrival and there is a one way system in place for all customers in the store. we sneeze screens at the tills and even donations being screened the hope is that customers will feel reassured has been open since monday we've been in 4 weeks in the shop and. we have to fight 72 hours. so when donations come in we put it to one so i got disick night a day for it so that goes to one side and then we have to wait 72 hours and then we could start touching it probably pretty al so when they made just 2 days away just so that we know in and i eat too many because i can't touch it straight so people now then a site. that could also be

a silver lining according to oxfam charity shops will see a treasure trove of goods arrive to the public use not down to have a clear out this every which been stored in our houses and they can have on takes in the going out jewelry slow to jam so precious stuff that they've been saving them they've been sorting out because they need to clear house so now's the time to come shopping could a virus pandemic has forced many to reassess their priorities somebody to say pass others have decided to buy more mindfully and take a more eco friendly approach and charity shops hope that both will mean a boob bargain hunting and provide the charities themselves with much needed income market andrews' r t u k s 6. how about one use in half an hour. international memorial awards has extended its deadline for submissions. all media professionals

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