you can be bold with the yeah you like. to call in to serve you go missionaries need to be sure that life is constantly creating that your mind be economic damage alpha coronavirus the damage is still being counted what's in store for yesterday was elicited lunch time magazine's list in the flesh will dangers jeffrey sachs economics director of the center for sustainable development to be university seen here advisor. professor it's so great to have you with us we do want to. have

a chat with you for the longest time about how these times of damn week and there's are the best times to actually pick your mind and maybe find out what is it that you're going to inherit here is yourself lost companies go bankrupt one afternoon there the global economy is more than 5 trillion dollars in the best case scenario some acid suggests are currently in the hour of the hurricane and the worst is yet to yet to come do you think they're right and how much worse can this get. we're obviously in a very deep crisis it is highly. differentiated across the world and i think this is the most important point in the asia pacific region yep and make is getting under control the policies have been smart and effective in stopping the spread of the virus in china japan korea austria. new zealand taiwan

hong kong vietnam malaysia and so on in western europe and the united states the epidemic was not controlled effectively at all and in the us we have a complete mass because we have a failure of national leadership. mass deaths more than 110000 social unrest economic. catastrophe and throughout most of the rest of the americas resilin for example. back soko terrible terrible outcomes then the question is the rest of the world including russia including central asia including south asia including africa and the battle is on right now will it be more like the asia pacific experience of stopping the spread of the epidemic or will it be more

like the experience in the americas of the epidemic being out of control and it's a very difficult battle and it's a very important question my point is this epidemic can be controlled but it requires very strong public health measures it requires strong cooperation of the public it requires good leadership that is very clear on putting a priority on stopping the spread of the virus the reason i mention all of this is that if the epidemic continues as a disease the economies will not recover we will not have trade tourism the investments we will have can't kenya weighing very deep economic crisis and so really to my mind good economics right now. mame's good public help stop this virus from spreading learn from

asia see what they have done successfully get this applied in our own countries i only wish the united states were growing this way but i'm white house of mystic fortunately. i actually had something to sat down with to send down a path and there's and. it was so difficult for everyone because it was something completely new no one here to answer is no and the professors now are of the doctors now of the president is no one knew how to deal with a was sealed honestly things about this and that way and the way to look it's not going to be completely over in terms of the see his coverage and basket case scenario play out at every winter and we're still talking about 2nd wait a 2nd even if we do contain him trying to minimize the damages from this disease from the same damage with you want to see the end of

a for another say 78 months what does it mean for the economy oh i think at a minimum it's a half a year or 2 years even if there is a vaccine which would be very very good luck if it would take quite a bit of time to test it for safety you can't just have a vaccine that works on a test group and then say oh now we're going to put it into the bodies of billions of people that would be completely reckless and so the truth of the matter is even though there is a lot of hope for back scenes coming early it's not going to be the solution to the next wave the next wave of this epidemic good it's going to be quite a long time between there is but before there is really an effective vaccine that is. already given to a large number of. the world population so we have to fight this by public health

means what is it that the east asian countries knew or figured out for us they wear face masks very basic they don't transmit the virus to others they take precautions they are screened at the workplace if there is a fever go home they have quarantined facilities they are contacting has staying and tracing infected people in other words if you are with symptoms you get tested immediately if you are positive your close contacts in the family or at the workplace or in. places that you visited are also quickly contacted and has did so these are standard procedures for fighting epidemics and they really should be applied everywhere urgently right now what it means for the world economy is we are definitely going to have

a significant disruption of the world economy for a long time to come the truth is even if there were a solution to the virus we will not have a nice shaped recovery meaning that we're going to bounce back anywhere near the rate that we have gone into a ditch to find people are not going to go back to normal practices we're not going to get a construction boom anytime soon because we have more 'd than empty office spaces everywhere people are going to stay home and work from home if they are in the kinds of work that allowed for on line activities people are not going to be tourists traveling around the world at the same rates as before for an oil based economy like russia the price of oil is going to be considerably lower for quite a long time than it was before. for countries that depend on remittance income this

is going to be depressed i don't believe in a quick recovery i believe that a prolonged crisis is being more likely and i think we're going to need global cooperation for the recovery phase this is also very tricky because unfortunately the united states is trying to oppose cooperation it's trying in the middle of all of this crisis to make a new cold war with china and that is a ridiculous thing to do but that is because unfortunately we have a very poor leadership in the united states which is creating so many problems inside the country and internationally closer to say when this condemning hey. he was so good to see how everyone consolidate and countries yes their forces for mistaken care of their cells and their nations that they started changing data and

they started changing the goods that were needed and the mass and the medication and the doctors were arriving from china to their information to their american to hear it was it to see that it will came together to combat this one to me and i am not a half and i just sat was very finger pointing and doing you are to place a you that i ask you today do you see when he say we need to come together to come out of this recession to see a 100 percent. giving is possible lucas county where it looks like this or says temporary come together and now they were morally maybe even more fragmented than before well there's definitely forces of fragmentation that are in my view quite dangerous and there are needs for cooperation that are more urgent if you look at places that are doing badly and containing the epidemic. they tend to

be the places also with the kind of strong populist nationalism that are against cooperation in other areas as well look at the united states or resilin or other places where their leadership is already highly nationalistic really against multilateral cooperation but not even making sense to keep its own citizens safe we should be looking for cooperative approaches we were not doing so even before cope and it's not the u.s. approach at least of the trumpet ministration which wants the vision rather than cooperation that's why trump hold out of the paris climate agreement trump cold out of the iran nuclear agreement trump told out of the world health organization a trump has launched a cold war against china because his whole strategy is divide

and this is not a strategy that is really what we need for solving any of the major problems of the world today. talking to jeffrey sachs the facility konami set to for sustainable development at columbia university and see here he has to what is east or far as near as he can say this. to.

we go to work some straight home. quest to do national will the start of an hour when the benefits of the lessons that solicit it possible to prevent you skew also his new kind of scene from the regular morgue your home or your car not proven through our. water source like you would all but us lucifer mistletoe is just that in the gotta come to think of the queen nobody it is not my achievement mr davies are 5 you have plans were conceived by the indian and carried out by the people themselves if how

they would produce or even florek it with the idea of making a film like this they'd probably be branded as crazy. that was the sentiment during the war that the soviets were brave heroes resisting the nazis that's going to change of course after the war but once the cold war begins. little people think that hollywood is a free plates holywood is a strictly defined but only one side of the business and the other side is ideology . how would i define hollywood is they call it the dream manufacture which i think's true but i think equally it's a propaganda factory. no t.v. no crowd. no shots. actually

fell to. the way throughout. the 1st one. which your thirst for action. and we're back with jeffrey sachs the best in the economics director of the savages versus stamboul development at columbia university and senior new investor vassar you're saying we need cooperation to get out of this crisis let's say things are a deal i will call operate we still can't go back to how things were going to be the new normal and you mentioned the climate change and love people who are like you know this endeavor they actually showed that climate and the planet midis 2

months of sitting at home and we can see the lion mountains that we weren't able to see for 30 years and we see the years in the streets of paris and examined her saying so just recently as a team that is made in raising and mentalists deledio he added yes and still am here you said the current crisis is giving us a head start to build a coup leader nerd economy of the future i mean it's something that we've been pushing away because he wasn't like needed right now he said because we need to start from 0 anyways this is like the perfect time to start a new type of model new type of economy this is beautiful where you put it but i want to know is it possible to friend the whole economy just by death so the only way of condemn it. well it's clear that we needed a new approach even before the pandemic that's why we reached 2 global agreements in 201511 the sustainable development goals and the 2nd on the paris

climate agreement these are very important new directions for a world to be safer on climate on pollution on the destruction of nature it says we need a sustainable approach for the world the problem was and remains that this requires the transition from a fossil fuel based world to a renewable energy world and the fossil fuel based countries russia is one of them the united states is another mexico is another saudi arabia is another australia is another were resisting the move from fossil fuels to sustainable energy because they said hey we've got fossil fuel resources this is our livelihood so. yes code 19 has led to

a dramatic drop of oil use oil prices plummeted there's a glut in the markets it was only when russia and saudi arabia cut the supplies the prices gone up a bit but the real issue is a more fundamental issue the real issue is whether the fossil fuel producing countries will work constructively. to develop renewable energy as the alternative because if the fossil fuel producing countries the gulf countries the united states canada australia russia and so forth continue to promote fossil fuels we don't make a transformation so i believe we should make the transformation it's really important for public safety it's important for a safe planet i think every country could cross or in a low carbon economy but there are

a lot of strong interests that don't want that transformation. a lot of people have been coming to the conclusion that this new model of comedy that we have now see have less is going to be much more digital based to e-commerce oriente and things said businesses feels that we're starting to be poor and we're supposed to be template hears were very high and things are there are supposed to die off in 1020 years also died off in one night so they have ways to navigate was like an accelerator for the things that need to be a start and they said that he seemed to be actually left behind for both of. them were thinking about his see anything of this sort of digital face a hunger space economy to you know what's wrong with it i can actually well i think when you describe what's happening extremely well this was an incredible excel or

and and i've spoken with so many businesses that have said you know we realized we could be 60 percent on line or 70 percent and we didn't know it before i spoke with a senior un agency official who said that there had been a lot of resistance to working online until suddenly they say oh this works fine there's not a problem we can do this so i think we are going to see. a long term change coming from this short term crisis it's pretty much across the economy it's definitely in my sector of education after all the universities when i lived in a week i've been teaching for a long time but it was sometimes maybe it wasn't the best advocate shouldn't you be in the classroom but the truth is you can do a lot of very interesting selectable things are bringing in speakers for all over

the world. gauging in new ways of had to go which i personally like actually i think it adds. content. and riches so if you think about it it's in offices it's it commerce it's in governance it should be voting and registrations and licensing services online why stand in line in a government office when it can be done so conveniently on why it's 8 payments it's ethan and saying it's easy education it's health with kalon medicine not for everything but for quite a lot of what needs to be done so i'm in agreement with i like it because it could reduce wear and tear on us it's not all or nothing an office is a good thing once a week maybe maybe twice

a week to see colleagues and to socialize and bad that it bandage but every day in an office for work that one can do on line really doesn't make sense commuting is no fun for a lot of people why spend an hour each day going to and from an office with all of the physical resources the carbon emissions and so forth about in jails when you don't need to do so so i believe we could move to a world of more leisure that's cleaner bed is less wear and tear on the earth and on our bodies but there's one important point also but i think needs to be mentioned the way that this could work is. either everybody gets some benefit from less commuting podmore leisure time saving money and so forth or we all end up basically working for just the big cat companies you know the biggest gainer of

this epidemic has jeopardy so a balance as ours isn't you know i was this high that all those tax areas just became 50 percent repair while his 6 years in the wealthy people you know are going to be living at a below par in line after this is over is still. consciously about that aspect saloon we have a good asset that this could work up arrest if they you know if we all agree that we can't do this task based e.-commerce face economy as long as we don't end up all working for tax as to why i got this huge gap that has become a given huge account where we see hillary's getting rich share people losing jobs and are going to be living under a party line system in and people have to this and to me and will we see that basically the disappearance of middle class how how does that play out

obviously it won't play out well if it isn't addressed through public policy mr b.'s ost today is with that worth of a $150000000000.01 person. this is the $35000000000.00 increase since the start of the year he's been a huge gainer at mark zuckerberg up $10000000000.00 on facebook his personal net worth i'm not talking about the company obviously a so this is ridiculous you know when you think that amazon basically pays no taxes it paid no tax at all for several years that it heinie amount in 2019. we can't go on this way what what kind of society were one individual as $150000000000.00 of net worth and so many people suffering just to stay alive so

we need a system of taxation we need a system of. meeting basic needs of health care education and so forth that cost money and that requires a redistribution of income from the mega mega mega rich to the rest of society and we need to ensure that he will who have jobs have decent jobs a lot of people have gotten sick in amazon warehouses this spring that's not right a lot of people have gotten sick in doing the basic things to keep our society going during the pandemic and they're the most marginalized course people and in the united states they don't even have health care much of the time because our societies unbelievably unfair it's just money owned and operated and sobeys are things that are absolutely now on the agenda and if they weren't on the agenda

before they are on the agenda because there's protests all over america about the racial injustice but also about the economic injustice so i don't think that it's going to stick this kind of inequality but it needs now to be. channeled into actual policies to make the new kind of a condom a fair that everybody has the benefits of education health care basic social services that no one should have $150000000000.00 i don't care how clever you are in inventing how clever an enterprise most of that should be taxed away because we don't function well in a society with such extraordinary income and wealth inequality and finances or do you feel that the government's general rolly dealing with him should take rethink she very or say fears in terms of emergency for instance.

or. one of the best course to kiss a landmark assertive so he's a father the natural way all good societies are mixed societies where there's a strong role of government including regulation income redistribution and providing social services a market which allows for entrepreneurship and flexibility and a civil society these are the hallmarks of a good society they are a middle way between extremes between the extreme of all state ownership and central clamming between the extreme of just. our end as markets without any kind of social justice and so it's an old idea in philosophy and western philosophy and eastern philosophy choose the middle path and

that i think is the right strategy economically as well in the united states. we are a money driven society were a money driven political system were the money pays for the campaigns the big well and this does not lead to social fairness inclusion or a proper role of the state the new deal that we had under franklin roosevelt who i regard as our greatest president was a middle path it had government and it had business working sometimes in conflict and and sometimes cooperatively and that is in my view the right approach what we don't have right now by the way more than anything is we don't have this thinking going on in government and without rationality we're getting terrible terrible outcomes and so i'm trying to think hard about how to put thinking back into our political system the best babysitter for this and that is

wonderful and great. here where you get the top one morning when the her with cancer bearing with ainslie they started pecan i'm looking forward to that thanks thanks a lot betty we're. going to the bank you made their. nuclear . speaking to west point graduates trance states were ending the era of endless wars 4 years ago on the campaign trail he said tensely the same thing why is it so difficult for this president to make good on this promise why make the promise

again if it can't be kept. in the troubled 19 seventies a group of killers rampage through parts of northern ireland that was coordinated loyalist attacks protect the only catholic population in belfast tens of thousands were forced to flee their homes and what was striking to put these attacks was a p.r. you see the police actually took part in the attacks so instead of preventing them they were active participants in the burning of coal streets in belfast at the time more than a 100 innocent civilians were murdered as the review can seniors and we found out more i was surprised about the extent and of the currency which the collusion was involved in some of those cases the killers would later be named the glennon gang i think it went to the very very top i think it the

cross the water where all the taste you thought was going on and give the go ahead. in the headlines his friday the 19th of june the children being humiliated by french police a leading human rights group details traumatic testimony about random id checks against black an arab males one as young as 10. feet 2 clearly different i've been stopped by police twice the 1st time i was 9 or. 10 years old i thought it was not normal for police to bloody serious 10 year old children president putin warns about playing games with history in an in-depth article for u.s. news magazine on lessons from the 2nd world war. the big brown is saying it's time to pack it in on using decades old images of black people to sell goods coming up we ask whether it's more to do with reputation salvaging though rather than racial

solidarity.