to possible to factor mass torture of people seeking asylum from nature a nation backwards and as the world's 2 biggest armies clash in the disputed him and then go one valley is a potential 3rd world war on the horizon we speak to one of deng xiaoping's former translators and director of the china institute of fudan university professor jang way way about nuclear war in a time of their own a virus all of the more coming up on today's going underground but 1st today's world refugee day according to the u.n. every single minute 20 people leave everything behind to escape war persecution or tara when un special rapporteur has highlighted the role of force used against refugees his neighbors kneels meltzer repertoire on torture and other cruel inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment he joins me now via skype from geneva in switzerland thanks so much measure up after i going back on the show it's actually an 8 year anniversary here of julian a son journey finding asylum in the ecuadorian embassy but we do want to ask you before i get to geopolitics as it were what you have made of law and order on the

streets of the united states and all around the world actually after the police murder of george floyd is. that it for structural one in the american system at least not talking about ordinary american citizens at blue states you know all 'd most of the latest we are a lot of people who love peace and you know tranquilly like everywhere else in the world but it's within you know miracle for it's he had a systemic problem of deep unity for misconduct we have it in the police for decades this is not new it's a new black events in the military no accountability for war crimes we see even the aggressive stance of the truth that we stray shoe and also other illustrations to court to force the international. criminal court but you also didn't use. for torture by the cia agents a little you know congress should

a senate committee report has confirmed a systematic. systematic policy of torture what i want to say that this is you cannot expect. one part of the authorities that purse to be hit critically while purely for various reasons crimes for other purposes your forty's you see you and other rapporteurs or find this left and you use the phrase modern day racial terror lynchings they would go through the heads of un special rapporteur as in your colleagues as human rights acts worth when you write words like that what do you think the united states is going to do when it hears that your calling the united states of place of modern day racial terror lynching. well you see we're not trying to hunt any headlines here we're just trying to reflect in your statements what we see and what we are serving and we are really where are the

opinion that the u.s. authorities have no sense of reality about how loudly yes we do have a structural design a grocer in the us and we do have structural and systemic problems of police violence and really do have structural 'd and systemic in surely and we did happen at all really in the period of racial barrier and i think that referring back to that period is not trying to you know finger point is simply to say these troubles that the origin is not purely it has not been properly addressed it was all in the united states where we invited the u.s. ambassador johnson to london on the program obviously federal law enforcement their own fate in 4 to meant will deny what you just said there i mean when you saw the video of george ward's murder i don't know maybe even richard brooks the been subsequent videos do they to. and amount to torture never learn death murder.

without a gun clearly what we see in the drawer for a. amounts to torture you have a person who absolutely defenseless powerless and not a minor and she's absolutely in the power of the custody of your full release and there's no need whatsoever to use the methods they had to use and it was predictable for everyone to see then and everyone watching the video that this person is going to die if the police officer doesn't release the travel and still we can see also the facial expression of an officer he's not aware of of the wrongful as of what he's doing and is it probable well that case continues of course said george lloyd's funeral joe biden the presidential contender spoke at a so you would you be ok with his view that annoying force one should shoot at the

leg instead of the heart. well i think law enforcement susan should at all if if possible because anyone who's father to school knows that you can miss your courage by half a meter in you know a fraction of a 2nd just you know with a little movement of your hand and i think i've done a whole report for the u.n. general assembly on police use of force and how it can amount to torture and treatment and over the years very very important that we reduce kind of tendency to want to resolve everything through muslims but i do want to get on to refugees but i have to say president trump has been keen to emphasize law and order the same principles that you say that you are polled you're welcome as police reform is banning chokeholds and that's offered as a threat and a national registry for officers using excessive force and special mental health provisions well certainly that's a step in iraq right. i do think that you have to go much much further than that

because as you say this structural cultural suspended problem has been there for decades law and order starts with. respecting law and order which means that you hold our own selves accountable and live up to the standards that we ask for a population of to follow and that's does not work with impunity it does not work in secrecy and it does not work with norman come to the work for good when he was signing that executive order this week he almost similar tenuously he was signing an executive order blocking us property and assets of any hang official investigating us troops or did you make of that surely just an exercise in exercising national sovereignty on the part of the white house. what you see the united states were was pushing for a nerd trial 75 years ago and germans hadn't signed a treaty or subjecting themselves to the to just 30 action of the tribunals and all

of the japanese you know for was fairly subjective themselves and there's the issue of the tokyo trial that isn't to say that these trials were not legitimate learned that were necessary but the united states are asking you not conducting military operations and by the nations have occur as they do in every war also known as than afghanistan is a country where the i.c.c. statue the line if the u.s. wants to use force in that that country it does subject itself to the jurisdiction of that court and therefore there is no discussion obviously beyond says he doesn't have jurisdiction and if the u.s. committed there or its soldiers did they are subject to that to stitch well but they'll often be things subject to any new decision by the united states as regards the appropriation of assets and property sector state pompei of course addict.

banga rue court and of course john bolton drums former national security advisor. he said that by all means appropriate some people saying that he even suggested the invasion of holland will this mean the end of the i.c.c. . well i think this year and the 2 who will walk and the others how we should be looking at that you know the questioning the legitimacy of course has been the last trick to try to evade accountability the nazis questions the legitimacy of the number of trials and milosevic the question the legitimacy of the nicety why. sometimes the same question to the to do as you know after iraq tribunals and so you know that's a standard that's a standard reaction are a state where individuals that color to be held accountable by the court i think you have authority here that means they then nothing and like the nazis whatsoever

tell me on u.n. refugee day what you've been working on as regards torture and refugees you've said that those seeking asylum it can amount to torture the inability of refugees to think asylum because there are tough regulations here in britain for people saying as i am. well obviously that is also a global problem no you know we have a european context of the mediterranean context libya you have the latin american mexican u.s. contacts you have the australian these observer contacts but by and large the tendencies are saying that the destination countries are adopting policies of deterrence to try to scare asylum seekers away and make them return to that insisting on or right that they have under human rights or to apply for asylum and the methods are used for that can be battled pushbacks it can be ill treatment can be abused the border corruption but it can also be indefinite out of tree detention

of migration centers and i think jeff today where so many millions and millions of people are locked in their homes and complained about the lockdown measures which can be very hard we should remember. goods and millions of people out there don't even have a hole that you could lock them into so there is a lot to into these refugee camps and are exposed to cohabit to buy animals to corruption and arbitrariness and i think it is really high time that we remember these are our brothers and sisters and we need to protect them. as i mentioned the scale is obviously staggering i should mention julian a founder you meet on the program talked about before what do you make of a presidential contender joe biden calling him a high tech terrorist but you've been defending itek terrorists why it is symptomatic for a country and not a you know boot process

a new herschel trial a legal proceeding to do to innocent payson to the senate we've just been discussing all out today and the united states refuses to acknowledge that akram to belittle their own the officials for their own misconduct is the prerequisites of democracy and the rule of law and anyone who exposes misconduct is not a terrorist and it giuditta such as never threatened anyone here has never committed a violent crime he's never threatens to commit when he's exposed by trial and he's exposed acts of terror and so i think we should be grateful that we know or at least things and states should be grateful that senator whole and those people to account that have broken the law well as i said it's 8 years since he got political asylum in ecuador an embassy in london and ultimately what in your book distinguishes democracy then from authoritarianism. well if her secretary of state

pump ale say that. the united states obviously you know as a democracy because journalists are allowed to question the government. directly in a press conference but all line response would be well the distinction between author terrorism and the law chris you really does not believe you can question the government but whether the government can actually response to these questions whether it provides transparency what we see in the u.s. government today keep everything a secret from military operations to even now that happens rescue package of 500000000000 dollars for the companies for coal this crisis and journalists asked for transparency well which company received how much money and the government says it's confidential and so they're keeping everything secret now even had president trump say that everything he says is classified as finally and

briefly as a special robert and his global protest during a pandemic continue at all around the world what's your advice to anyone watching who feel that they are being threatened with torture arbitrary detention because they've been protesting in the wake of the george white matter. the freedom of association freedom of expression is an essential human right people should go out and protest because there's plenty of things to cross that protest about obviously these protests should remain peaceful should remain nonviolent because being allowed in a protest only gives a cheap excuse to local refuse to respond with violence here and pressure up and i thank you. after the break as the world's 2 largest armies come face to face on a disputed himalayan border we'll ask one of deng xiaoping's woman translators whether china will protect its interests in the face of a potential 3rd world war. 2 of going underground.

you know when you've been able to molest that's only sit in. the regular morgue for your partner are going to be moving from iraq. oh oh oh oh ah wash ashore psyche all those lucifer mistletoe is just that i'm like i don't i'm just. it is not my achievement mr davies our 5 beautiful lands were conceived. and carried out by the people themselves if they would produce or even floor it with the idea of making a film like this they'd probably be branded as crazy. how was the sentiment during the war the soviets were brave heroes resisting the nazis that's going to change of

course after the war but once the cold war begins. i. think that hollywood is a free plates holywood is strictly defined by one side of the business and the other side is ideology. how would i define ali is a call to dream manufacture which i think's true but i think equally it's a propaganda factor. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics sport this. i'm show business i'll see you then. welcome back u.s. president trump and his team reportedly made desperate attempts to suppress the

publication of the memoir by his former national security advisor john bolton when leaked revelations from the book that was general for next week suggested trump did not know britain had nuclear weapons another alleged trump asked chinese president xi jinping to help him win the members u.s. general election this fall amidst anxious trade negotiations and fighting between the worlds biggest enemies on the india china border joining me now from beijing is a former translator for the architect of modern china deng xiaoping way away is director of the china institute and fudan university and joins me now thank you so much for joining us before i even get to those geopolitical issues we've had maybe excess deaths of $60000.00 plus tell me about this reported 2nd spike at the scene for the seafood market supplying what 90 percent of beijing's fruit and vegetables well 'd 'd 'd its case which will be there or sears engine. i

hope it will 'd be manageable. or. something and. 'd look at the. pace it's also dropping it's only on the one i don't like me well. enough experience i should just ask you about contact tracing because we have way more cases than that and we are ending our lock down now you have a complete lockdown. how do you view how do you view how how coronaviruses affected britain where we've had maybe maybe more than 60000 excess deaths to be. honestly i think the u.k. . and the western countries should learn a bit wrong china and we take this deadly serious with thing it's a matter of life and deaths and people's lives come 1st not business interests so

with this in mind we try to trace every case and that's the chinese kiran's which include the work very well both within china in the country as well obviously the news here is less actually about any advice china might have on coronavirus the reporting here is europe war with india 20 indian soldiers killed in the himalayan gul one valley by the people's liberation army and what do you know about the clash of this clash of nuclear powers erthly from the information i can collect its up to now stew a kind office to fistfight it's not. 'd 'd gun shooting not killing by guns obviously both sides want to control the damage on the hote it's about peaceful solution to this dispute and the personally i think maybe had to do with india's domestic reason perhaps i don't know it has to do with

the i think and cope with 19 they are not 'd well because no one has all of sudden all the border skirmishes with china. and yes. i don't know colonel attempt to divert people's attention for a while other don't think in the try to launch a war but definitely this particular incident occurred within the chinese line of control india's troops and indochina well we'll have to be speaking to the indian a commission that's not a top the defense minister put it he said the nation will never forget their bravery. and sacrifice of the dead soldiers and the environment. superstar said this was an attempt by the chinese side to unilaterally change the status quo 'd so what i earn about is. really this particular incident

has occurred wheezing the untrue of the chinese side eventually perhaps the set right now that were. so obviously this a provocation on indian side so far read the talk by 2 foreign ministers. both talk about peaceful solution to this dispute this is a good sign well the chinese foreign ministry spokesman jolly john did say it was a provocation from india's side can you putting your geopolitical hat on as a keen observer of these things can you see how nature nations might encourage or certainly could be accused of being pleased by a fight between superpowers of the future like india and china india apparently using u.s. intelligence to claim that 35 peer lay troops were casualties in this clash apparently you know there it has been. pacific all of us

ok if i the united states but from my knowledge india is also very quare ships on this indochine in the pacific and. india is no longer choose between china states and of poor china india to use a treaty. and i don't think luke perry india think india can fight the war and when you know both sides will reach a peaceful settlement of course the border disputes between the 2 countries have been going on for decades it will not be resolved easily yeah but this is the 1st time for one 5th. the years that we've seen this many deaths on the border this comes after another nuclear nation pakistan's government allied to china saying that india is provoking a confrontation over kashmir which of course also involves the people's republic of

china position our kashmir is very clear. we hope there will be peaceful solution to the disputes which i dispute between india china india and pakistan and 'd 'd so we have a long vision ultimately india pakistan and china should develop normal economic although i am your friend i was there. 'd for about 2 weeks last year where the discussion with me in the sink tanks i think you know the message is very clear 'd it's in the interest of post china india to make good relations rather therefore into a trap of this in no. pacific. i still sink mainly it's all the best political concerns that india provoke this.

some more limited skirmish this is all useful though for mike pompei o meeting with his with young. in hawaii when he talks about trade with china given this given this narrative the china is isolated let her read the news report grey free it's obvious in 2 sides. really. hong kong. and g.r. also i state there are differences openly candidly girth you know but on the other hand both said try to implement the consent. actually it could cite. some kind of cooperation in fighting the. last election the big story the nationally arguably has been a book by donald trump's former national security advisor john bolton i mean

there's been many reports that he's donald trump is fighting his own military industrial complex what do you make of these supposed revelations denied by trump that he asked for xi jinping as help in winning the members u.s. election a read interesting passage about this conversation being. a parent a child with the should. beings which is what also i have been seeing reaction from. here you mentioned the fight their own in 1000 pentagon officials quoted in u.s. media warning of chinese economic warfare exploiting coronavirus exploiting supplies of bio warfare protection equipment here in britain the british government is talking about china somehow having to pay for coronavirus there in recent weeks . all walk

a do who in china was not. active in international politics or less active they would say china was my. when china big thing slightly more active it became a chinese you not assertion more certain so we just do whatever we think it's necessary at this moral. all ball consensus except the united states we should have really international community acting in a unified the way the. enemy cobb in 98 and china it's best to help us here in britain a game that the foreign minister here dominic grab boris johnson's 1st minister attacking h.s.b.c. for backing the hong kong government the only thing that perhaps can take the george floyd protests of the news here is the rioting in hong kong what do you make

of britain trying to offer passports to chinese citizens in hong kong. no this is a very silly decision i don't think that ask for well be very attractive to many. in the 1st place it's essentially a travel document not a work permit i remember when those helping went to united states or 1st train. with jimmy carter and us president the us president and. immigration and those are being asked how many millions of people you want. well i mean the massive the here china's ambassador here was pretty forthright. do you think this is this is dominic grab doing us dirty work because the ambassador here said to the british government don't do this dirty work dirty job for someone else

when britain sent the royal navy sent its h.m.s. elizabeth their craft carrier to the spratly islands the british should remember should know by this year a. nation of. over. history has already turned a corner so when china decided to push forward with this issue of national security law it's a done deal when ho whereas a guy states are pretty tried to intervene or not no way of course every experience almost a year when your chaos and economy suffered badly almost destroyed so now our biscoe and of chaos prolong the chaos many people came to their senses you mention colonialism in fairness to britain statues of slave traders are coming down do you

think the chinese would like statues in britain of people who peddle drugs to china killings only chinese people when britain was a wee. one of the big drug dealing nations of the world would want those statues come down. so indeed in the 1st place this kind of demonstrations this black live to match. the u.p.a. reviews the kind of deep rooted grievances. obviously race isn't ingrained in the british economic political and social life i think it's understandable people have really bad feelings about the statue this summer singles remind people of the ugly history of clinton china not have a shop a member of the art so don't be too arrogant and. still cluny a power. mad in congo no way. thank you

thank you that's it for the show will be back on monday to further investigate the source of coronavirus with big farms big flew off the road wallace until then wash your hands join the underground you've thought about instagram's return facebook. geysers financial survival. when customers go by you reduce the price. well reduce allow or. that's undercutting what's good for the market it's not good for the global economy. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race. theory dramatic development the only really exists i don't see how that strategy will be

successful very critical time to sit down and talk. moscow time saturday morning 28th of june in the headlines underlining the meaning of freedom this year's u.s. holiday to mark the end of slavery in the united states sees a mass turnouts across the country. as donald trump plows ahead with his 1st campaign rally since the start of the pandemic despite a legal challenge over the risks of contagion he says though it's a set of double standards in the wake of the race protests. brazil becomes the 2nd country to surpass $1000000.00 known corona virus infections now with public swelling over the government's handling of the break particularly among the hard hit an indigenous population. we do not.