jang way way about nuclear war in a time of the road of our home of the more coming up on today's going underground but 1st today's world refugee day according to the u.n. every single minute 20 people leave everything behind to escape war persecution or terror when un special rapporteur has highlighted the role of force used against refugees his neighbors kneels meltzer repertoire on torture and other cruel inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment he joins me now via skype from geneva in switzerland thanks so much measure up with her for being back on the show it's actually an 8 year anniversary here of joining a sanjaya finding asylum in the ecuadorian embassy but i we do want to ask you before we get to geopolitics as it were what you have made of law and order on the streets of the united states and all around the world actually after the police murder of george floyd is really. to look at it for structural latins in the american system and obviously i'm not talking about ordinary american citizens at loose in the states and you know all 'd most of the loudest we are

a lot of people who love peace and you know a trend going to be like everywhere else in the world but it's within you know miracle for it's he had it's is probable of unity for misconduct we have it in the police for decades this is not new it's a new black event only happened in the military no accountability for a walk crimes we see even the aggressive stance of the truck that new stray shoe and also other elucidations to court to force the international court of. criminal who works. but we also shouldn't unity for torture by the cia agents a little you know congress should be reported to confirm a systematic. and systematic policy of torture what i want to say that this is you cannot expect one part of your story per to be hypocrites. really

why only purely for various reasons crimes for other purposes your forty's you see you and other rapporteurs or find this left and you use the phrase modern day racial terror lynchings we were going through the heads of un special rapporteur on your colleagues as human rights acts worth when you write words like that what do you think the united states is going to do when it hears that your calling the united states of place of modern day racial terror lynchings. well you see we're not trying to hunt the. headlines here we're just trying to reflect in your statements what we see and what we are serving and we are really warily opinion that the u.s. authorities have no sense of reality about how loudly yes we do have a structural design gross's in the us and we do have structural and systemic problems of police violence and really do have structural 'd and systemic in surely

and we did happen at all really in the period of racial slur and i think that referring back to that period is not trying to you know finger point is simply to say these troubles that the origin period and not been properly addressed it was all in the united states where we invited the u.s. ambassador johnson to london on the program obviously federal law enforcement that learned faith in 4 to meant well deny what you just said there i mean when you saw the video of george ward's murder i don't know maybe even richard brooks the bin subsequent videos do they tantamount to torture never learn death murder that without a doubt clearly what we see in the drawer for a cooler amounts to torture you have a person who absolutely defenseless howlers a lot of violence he's absolutely in the arabic. city of your florida and there's

no need whatsoever to use the methods they had to use and it was predictable for everyone to see then and everyone watching the video that this person is going to die if the police officer doesn't release the straddle and still we can see also the facial expression of an officer if he's not aware of the run fullness of what he's doing and is a problem well that case continues of course said george lloyd's funeral joe biden the presidential contender spoke at a would you be ok with his view that annoying force one should shoot at the leg instead of the heart. well i think law enforcement susan should at all if possible because anyone who's father to school knows that you can miss your courage by half a meter in you know a fraction of a 2nd just. with a little movement of your hand and i think i've done a whole report for the u.n.

general assembly on police use of force and how it can amount to torture and treatment and over the years very very important that we reduce kind of tendency to want to resolve everything through muslims but i do want to get on to refugees but i have to say president trump has been keen to emphasize law and order the same principle of that you say that you are polled you're welcome as police reform is banning chokeholds and that's offered as a threat and a national registry for officers using excessive force and special mental health provision and well certainly that's a step in the right direction i do think that you have to go much much further than that because as you say this structural cultural suspended problem has been there for decades law and order starts with. respecting law and order which means that you hold our own selves accountable. all and then up to the standards

that he asked for a population to follow and that's does not work with unity it does not work in secrecy and it does not work with norman come to the uk of course when he was signing that executive order this week he almost similar tenuously he was signing an executive order blocking us property and assets of any hague official investigating us troops what did you make of that surely just an exercise in exercising national sovereignty on the part of the white house what you see the united states were was pushing for a nerd trial 75 years old and germans had signed a treaty in the subject in themselves to be to just 30 action of the tribunals and all of the japanese. was fairly subjected to the resolution of the tokyo trial that isn't to say that these trials were not legitimate they were and they were necessary but the united states are asking you not conducting military operations

and by the nations have occurred as they do in every war also known as afghanistan is a country where the i.c.c. stouter that if the u.s. wants to use force in that that country does subject itself to the jurisdiction of that court and therefore there is no discussion obviously he says he doesn't have jurisdiction and if the u.s. committed there or its soldiers did they are subject to stitch well but they'll often be thing subject to any new decision by the united states as regards the appropriation of assets and property secretary state pompei a call that a kangaroo court and of course john bolton former national security adviser. has said that by all means appropriate some people thing that even suggested the invasion of holland will this mean the end of the i.c.c. . well i think this year and after who will walk and that is how we should be

looking at you know the questioning the legitimacy of course has been the last trip to try to evade accountability the nazis questions the legitimacy of the number of trials and milosevic the question the legitimacy of the i.c.c. why. sometimes the same question to the to do as you know after iraq tribunals and so you know that's a standard that's a standard reaction are a state where individuals that color to be held accountable by a court i think you have authority here that means they then nothing like the nazis whatsoever tell me on u.n. refugee day what you've been working on as regards torture and refugees you said that there are those seeking asylum it can amount to torture the inability of refugees to think asylum because there are tough regulations here in britain for people saying as i am. well obviously that is also

a global problem no you know we have a european context that the mediterranean contest libya you have the latin american mexican us contacts you have the australian these observer contacts but by and large the tendencies are saying that the destination countries are adopting policies of deterrence to try to scare asylum seekers away and make them return to that insisting on or right that they have under human rights or to apply for asylum and the methods are used for that panty barrel pushbacks it can be ill treatment can be abused at the border corruption but it can also be indefinite out of tree detention in my precious center and i think jeff today where so many millions and millions of people are locked in their homes and complained about the lockdown measures which can be very hard we should remember that there. goods and millions of people out there don't even have

a hole that you could lock them into so there is a lot to do by animals to corruption in our terrors and i think it is really high time that we remember these are our brothers and sisters and we need to protect them. as i mentioned the scale is obviously staggering i should mention julian a founder you meet on the program talked about before what do you make of a presidential contender joe biden calling him a high tech terrorist if you've been defending itek terrorist well if it is symptomatic for a country and not a you know blue cross and herschel trial legal proceeding to do to innocent hasan to the center it's just been discussing all out today that the united states refuses to acknowledge that akram to belittle their own the officials for their own misconduct is the prerequisites of democracy and the rule of law and anyone who exposes misconduct is not

a terrorist and it giuditta such as never threatened anyone here has never committed a biannual in strine he's never threatens to commit war and he's exposed by trial and he's exposed of terror and so i think we should be grateful that we know of these things and the states should be grateful that senator whole those people to account that have broken the law well as i said it's 8 years since he got political asylum in ecuador an embassy in london and ultimately what in your book distinguishes democracy then from authoritarianism. well if her secretary of state are some pale say that. the united states obviously you know the democracy because journalists are allowed to question the government directly in a press conference but will line response would be well the distinction between author terrorism and the law chris who really is not really you could question the

government but whether the government can actually response to these questions whether it provides transparency what we see in the u.s. government today that keep everything a secret from military operations to even now demands rescue package of $500000000000.00 for the companies for coal this crisis and journalists as for transparency well which company received how much money and the government says it's confidential and so they're keeping everything secret now we even have president trump saying that everything he says is classified to finally and briefly as a special robert and his global protest during a pandemic continue at all around the world what's your advice to anyone watching who feel that they are being threatened with torture arbitrary detention because they've been protesting in the wake of the george white matter. the freedom of association freedom of expression is an essential human right people should go out

and protest because there's plenty of things to cross the protest about obviously these protests should remain peaceful or should remain nonviolent because being allowed in a protest only gives a cheap excuse to local refuse to respond with violence your own special ramadan thank you. after the break as the world's 2 largest armies come face to face on a disputed himalayan border we'll ask one of deng xiaoping's woman translators whether china will protect its interests in the face of a potential 3rd world will. coming up but you are going underground. next geysers financial survival they say money the balanced. budget is it this is the central bank support diadem is going to call them right now so you stop to.

quest need national will discover you know when you've been able to molest that solicit it. from the regular morgue or your home or your partner group or provide. a. lot o. . water source like you would all but us lucifer mistletoe is just that i'm like i don't i'm just nobody it is not my achievement mr davies our 5 beautiful lands were conceived. and carried out by the people themselves if the power would produce or even floor it with the idea of making a film like this they probably be branded as crazy. and that was the sentiment during the war the soviets were brave heroes resisting the nazis that's going to change of course after the war but once the cold war begins. i.

think that hollywood is a free plates but really what is strictly defined by one side of the business and the other side is ideology. how would i define ali is a call to dream manufacture which. it's true. i think equally it's a problem in the film. welcome back u.s. president trump and his team reportedly made desperate attempts to suppress the publication of the memoir by his former national security advisor john bolton one leaked revelation from the book that was general for next week suggested trump did not know britain had nuclear weapons and other alleged trump asked chinese

president xi jinping to help him win the members' u.s. general election this fall amidst anxious trade negotiations and fighting between the worlds biggest enemies on the india china border joining me now from beijing is a former translator for the architect of modern china deng xiaoping reza jang way way is director of the china institute and fudan university and joins me now thank you so much for joining us before i even get to those geopolitical issues we've had maybe excess deaths of $60000.00 plus tell me about this reported 2nd spike at the scene for the seafood market supplying what 90 percent of beijing's fruit and vegetables well 'd its case which we are serious engine. i hope it will 'd be manageable are. all. something. 'd they're ok.

also dropping it's only one i don't like me well. enough experience i should just ask you about contact tracing because we have way more cases than that and we are ending our lock down now you have a complete locked. how do you view how do you view how or how coronaviruses affected britain where we've had maybe maybe more than 60000 excess deaths to be honest i think the u.k. . and the western countries should learn a bit wrong china and we take this deadly serious with thing it's a matter of life and death and people's lives come 1st not business interests so with this in mind we try to trace every case and that's the chinese kiran's which include the work very well both within china in the country well obviously the news

here is less actually about any advice china might have on coronavirus reporting here is europe war with india 20 indian soldiers killed in the himalayan gul one valley by the people's liberation army and what do you know about the clash of this clash of nuclear powers earthly from the information i can collect it's up to now stew a kind office to fistfight it's not. gun shooting not killing by guns obviously both sides want to control the damage on the whole it's about peaceful solution to this dispute and personally i think maybe you had to do with india's domestic you reason perhaps i don't know it has to do with the i think and cope with 19 deaths are not well because no one has all of sudden all the border skirmishes with china or it's time

i don't know colonel attempt to divert people's attention for a while other don't think in the try to launch a war but definitely this particular incident 'd occurred within the chinese line of control so it's. india's troops and well we hope to be speaking to the indian i commissioned with that's not at all our the defense minister put it he said the nation will never forget their bravery and sacrifice of the dead soldiers and the indian foreign minister. superstar said this was an attempt by the chinese side to unilaterally change the status quo. 'd because. really this particular incident. has occurred wheezing the control of the chinese side eventually perhaps the set right now that were. so obviously this

a provocation for an indian side so far read the talk by 2 foreign ministers. both talk about peaceful solution to this dispute this is a good sign well the chinese foreign ministry spokesman jolly john did say it was a provocation from india's side can you putting your geopolitical hat on as a keen observer of these things can you see how nature nations might encourage or certainly could be accused of being pleased by a fight between superpowers of the future like india and china india apparently using u.s. intelligence to claim that 35 peer lay troops were casualties in this clash apparently you know there it is been out in the pacific on. ok if i the united states but from my knowledge india is also very quarters on this indochina in the pacific. india is no longer choose between china

states and of course china and india to use a treaty. i don't think only india think india can buy the war and when both sides will reach a peaceful settlement of course the border disputes between the 2 countries have been going on for decades it will not be resolved easily you have a does the 1st time for what 50 years that we've seen this many deaths on the border this comes after another nuclear nation pakistan's government allied to china saying that india is provoking a confrontation over kashmir which of course also involves the people's republic. a busy child of position our kashmir is very clear. we hope there will be peaceful solution to the disputes which i dispute between india china india and pakistan

and 'd so we have a long vision in the ultimately india pakistan and china should develop normal economic although i am your friend i was there. 'd for about 2 weeks last year where the discussion with me in the sink tanks i think you know the message is very clear 'd it's in the inches up both china and india to make good relations rather therefore into a trap of this in no. pacific. i still think mainly it's all the best political concerns that india provoke this. some more limited skirmish this is all useful though for mike pompei o meeting with his with young. in hawaii when he talks about trade

with china given this given this narrative that china is isolated let her read the news report briefly it's obvious in 2 sides. really. hong kong. and change are all side state differences openly candidly earth you know but on the other hand both said try to implement the consensus actually in it who side to side to have some kind of cooperation in fighting the benign taking and not the natural trait the big story the nationally arguably has been a book by donald trump's former national security advisor john boehner. i mean there's been many reports that he's donald trump is fighting his own military industrial complex what do you make of these supposed revelations denied by trump

that he asked for xi jinping is help in winning the members u.s. election read interesting passage about this conversation. she. apparently should. 'd beings which is what also i have been seeing a reaction from. here you mentioned the fight their own in 1000 pentagon officials quoted in u.s. media warning of chinese economic warfare exploiting coronavirus exploiting supplies of bio warfare protection equipment here in britain the british government is talking about china somehow having to pay for coronavirus there in recent weeks . all walk a do. in china was not. active in international politics or less active they would say china was.

when china becoming slightly more active it became a chinese you know assertion more certain so we just do whatever we think it's necessary at this moral. consensus except the united states we should have. really international community acting in a unified the way the. enemy cob in 98 and china it's best to help us here in britain a game that the foreign minister here dominic grab boris johnson's words minister attacking h.s.b.c. for backing the hong kong government the only thing that perhaps can take the george floyd protests of the news here is the rioting in hong kong what do you make of britain trying to offer passports to chinese citizens in hong kong. no this is a very silly decision i don't think that ask or well be very attractive to many.

in the 1st place it's essentially a travel document not a work permit i remember when when 2 united states or 1st train. with jimmy carter and us president the us president and. immigration and those are being asked how many millions of people you want. well i mean the mass of the here china's ambassador here was pretty forthright. do you think this is this is dominic grab doing us dirty work because the ambassador here said to the british government don't do this dirty work dirty job for someone else when britain sent the royal navy sent its h.m.s. elizabeth their craft carrier to the spratly islands the british should remember

should know by this year a. nation of. over. history has already turned a corner so when china decided to push forward with this issue of national security law it's a done deal when ho wears a guy states are pretty tried to intervene or not no way of course every experience almost a year when your chaos and economy suffered badly almost destroyed so now this kind of chaos for long chaos many people came to their senses you mention colonialism in fairness to britain statues of slave traders are coming down do you think the chinese would like statues in britain of people who peddle drugs to china killing so many chinese people when britain was a while. one of the big drug dealing nations of the world would want those statues

of those peddlers to come. oh indeed in the 1st place this kind of demonstrations this black lives madame womb and you refuse the kind of deep rooted grievance out obviously race isn't ingrained in the british economic political and social life i think it's understandable people have really bad feelings about this cover singles reminds people of the ugly history of cloner isn't china not have a shop a member of the art so the too arrogant. as if it were still clooney. ate up matters in congo no way president where we're here. thank you for the show will be back on monday to further investigate the source of.

this is all about bailing out the banks on wall street and why because they are the biggest contributors and the fed the fed is bailing it's. the fed has all the. money. it's to keep. money for itself and by the way. holder and all the. why can't people who are underwater on their mortgages been laid off in america money. money to bail them out that's not right is it.

for headlines stories this hour this year's u.s. holiday to mark the end of slavery in the united states sees my. country. ahead with their 1st campaign rally since the start of. a legal challenge over the wrist. many are calling the proposed case hypocrisy. protests continue at the same time. the program for sale becomes the 2nd country to 1000000. over the government's handling of the prick particularly among the hard hit the indigenous populations.