human rights record of the united states accused of violations stretching from the murder of george floyd to possible defacto mass torture of people seeking asylum from later nation back was found as the world's 2 biggest armies clash in the disputed him an ngo one valley is a potential 3rd world war on the horizon we speak to one of deng xiaoping's woman translators and director of the china institute of fudan university professor jang way way about nuclear war in a time of coronavirus all of the more coming up on today's going underground but 1st today's world refugee day according to the u.n. every single minute 20 people leave everything behind to escape war persecution or terror when un special rapporteur has highlighted the role of force used against refugees his name is neil's meltzer repertoire on torture and other cruel inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment he joins me now via skype from geneva in switzerland thanks so much measure up after i going back on the show it's actually an 8 year anniversary year of julian assange journey finding asylum in the ecuadorian embassy but we do want to ask you before we get to geopolitics as it

were what you have made of law and order on the streets of the united states and all around the world actually after the police murder of george floyd is. that it for structural one in the american system and what we saw not talking to a lot of ordinary american citizens of blue states you know all most of the latest we are a lot of people who love peace and you know trying to be like everywhere else who works within you know miracle stories he had a systemic problem all of humanity for misconduct we put in the police for decades this is not new it's a new black event in the military no accountability for war crimes we see even the aggressive stance of the trunk of new stray shoe and also other illustrations who are. to force the international court of

a criminal court but we also shouldn't unity for torture by the cia agents a little congress should present to the reporters confirm a systematic. systematic policy of torture what i want to say that this is you cannot expect one part of the authorities could prove a to behave correctly while only purely for various reasons crimes for other purposes your forty's you see you and other rapporteurs are find this left and you use the phrase modern day racial terror lynchings we were going through the heads of un special rapporteur on your colleagues as human rights acts worth when you write words like that what do you think the united states is going to do when it hears that your calling the united states of place a modern day racial terror lynching. well you see we're not trying to hunt any headlines here we're just trying to reflect in our statements what we see and what

we are serving and we are really where are the opinion that the us authorities have no sense of reality about how loudly yes we do have a structural design a grocer into us and we do have structural and systemic problems of police violence and really do have structural and systemic in shooty and we did happen at all really in that period of racial slur and i think that referring back to that period is not trying to you know finger point is simply to say these troubles that the origin in that period and not been properly addressed it was all in the united states where we invited the u.s. ambassador johnson to london on the program obviously federal law enforcement alone faith in 4 to meant will deny what you just said there i mean when you saw the. neo

of george floyd's murder i don't know maybe even richard brooks the bin subsequent videos do they tantamount to torture never learn death murder. without a doubt clearly what we see in the drawer for a. amounts to torture you have a person who absolutely defenseless powerless and not a minor she's absolutely in the power of the custody of your full release and there's no need whatsoever to use the methods they're out of use and he was predictable for everyone to see then and everyone watching the video that this person is going to die if the police officer doesn't release our travel and still we can see also the facial expression of an officer he's not aware at all of the wrongful as of what he's doing and is a probable well that case continues of course said george lloyd's funeral joe biden

the presidential contender spoke at a would you be ok with his view that annoying force one should shoot at the leg instead of the heart. well i think law enforcement suited should all if possible because anyone who's father to school knows that you can miss your courage by half a meter in you know a fraction of a 2nd just you know with a little movement of your hand and i think i've done a whole report for the un general assembly on police use of force and how it can amount to torture and treatment and over the years very very important that we reduce kind of tendency to want to resolve everything through muslims but i do want to get on to refugees but i have to say president trump has been keen to emphasize law and order the same principles that you say that you are polled you're welcome as police reform is banning chokeholds and that's offered as a threat and a national registry for officers. using excessive force and special mental health

provisions well certainly that's a step in the right direction i do think that you have to go much much further than that because as you say to structural cultural suspending the problem has been there for decades law and order starts with. respecting law and order which means that you hold our own selves accountable and live up to the standards that they ask for a population of to follow and that's does not work with the unity it does not work in secrecy and it does not work with norman come to the uk of course when he was signing that executive order this week he almost similar tenuously he was signing an executive order blocking u.s. property and assets of any hague official investigating us troops or did you make of that surely just an exercise in exercising national sovereignty on the part of the white house. what you see the united states were was pushing for a nerd trial 75 years ago and the germans hadn't signed a treaty in

a subject in themselves to the to just 30 action of the tribunals and all of the japanese you know of voluntary subject the terms of others the action of the tokyo trial that is to say that these trials were not legitimate they were and are necessary but the united states are asking you not conducting military operations and by the nations have occur as they do in every war also known as the afghanistan is a country where the i.c.c. stouter the appliance if the u.s. wants to use force in that that country it does subject itself to the jurisdiction of that court and therefore there is no discussion obviously guy says he doesn't have jurisdiction and if the us committed there or dissolved or stood there are certitude up to stitch well but they'll often be thing subject to any new disk.

vision by the united states as regards the appropriation of assets and property secretary of state on paper calls it a kangaroo court and of course john bolton trumps former national security advisor . he said that by all means appropriate some people saying that he even suggested the invasion of holland will this mean the end of the i.c.c. . well i think this year 2 who will walk and that as how we should be looking at you know the questioning the legitimacy of course has been the last trip to try to evade accountability the nazis questions the legitimacy of the number of trials and milosevic the question the legitimacy of the nicety why. sometimes the same question to the to do as you know after iraq tribunals and so you know that's a standard that's a standard reaction are a state where individuals that color to be held accountable by the court i think

you have authority here that means they then nothing and like the nazis whatsoever tell me on u.n. refugee day what you've been working on as regards torture and refugees you've said that there are those seeking asylum it can amount to torture the inability of refugees to think asylum because there are tough regulations here in britain for people saying as i'm. well obviously that is also a global problem no you know we have a european context of the mediterranean context libya we have the latin american mexican us contacts you have the australian these observer contacts but by and large the tendencies are saying that the big destination countries are adopting policies of deterrence to try to scare asylum seekers away and make them return to that insisting on or right that they have under human rights or to apply for asylum and the methods are used for that panty barrel pushbacks it can be ill

treatment can be abused at the border corruption but it can also be indefinite out of tree detention of migration centers and i think jeff today where so many millions and millions of people are locked in their homes and complain about the lockdown measures which can be very hard we should remember better. goods and millions of people out there don't even have a hole that you could lock them into so there is a lot to into these refugee camps and are exposed to cohabit to pilots to corruption and aren't terrorists and i think it is really high time that we remember these are our brothers and sisters and we need to protect them. as i mentioned the scale is obviously staggering i should mention julian a founder you meet on the program talked about before what do you make of a presidential contender joe biden calling him a high tech terrorist if you've been defending itek terrorist well if it is

symptomatic for a country and not a you know blue crossers a new herschel trial a legal proceeding to do to innocent patients to the center it's just been discussing all out today that the united states refuses to acknowledge that akram to belittle their own the fishbowls for their own misconduct is the prerequisites of democracy and the rule of law and anyone who exposes misconduct is not a terrorist and due to the sanctions never threatened anyone here has never committed a violent crime he's never threatens to commit war and he's exposed by trial and he's exposed because of terror and so i think we should be grateful that we know about these things and the states should be grateful that senator whole those people to account that have broken the law well as i said it's 8 years since he got

political asylum in the ecuadorian embassy in london and ultimately what in your book distinguishes democracy then from authoritarianism. well if her secretary of state pump ale say that. the united states obviously you know the democracy because journalists are allowed to question the government directly in a press conference but will line response would be well the distinction between author terrorism and the law chris you really does not believe you can question the government but whether the government can actually response to these questions whether it provides transparency what we see in the u.s. government today that keep everything a secret from military operations to even now the hands rescue package of $500000000000.00 for the companies for coal this crisis and journalists as for transparency well which company received how much money and the government says

it's confidential and so they're keeping everything secret now we even have president trump saying that everything he says is classified to finally and briefly as a special and his global protest during a pandemic continue at all around the world what's your advice to anyone watching who feel that they are being threatened with torture arbitrary detention because they've been protesting in the wake of the george white matter. the freedom of association freedom of expression is an essential human right people should go out and protest because there's plenty of things to cross that protest about obviously these protests should remain peaceful or should remain nonviolent because being allowed in a protest only gives a cheap excuse to local refuse to respond with violence your own special ramadan thank you. after the break as the world's 2 largest armies come face to face on a disputed himalayan border we'll ask one of deng xiaoping's woman translators

whether china will protect its interests in the face of a potential 3rd world war. 2 i'm going underground. you can't forget it was nature and it's me true that has to live through this message and so will we know we're more or more we're just. live and don't take into account this new vitally important aspect of our own life the need to exist with coded 92 i think that some changes in a direction are going to do for some interest and species you can't survive without changing.

some control for a middle class to homeless overnight most of our very hard working people that want to get ahead that have either have some some health issues or have some of it out of strict about luck a full time job won't always pay for a place to live and missing just a month's rent can get she was a victim to gunpoint if anything bad happens to any thing that just throws your budget off slightly. you better catch up real quick or you're going to have a judgment of possession against you and get addicted anyone that's homeless is treated like garbage people look at you like a monster or someone bad or you chose to be there most of the time it's not the case see how it is to be pull in the world's richest country.

welcome back u.s. president donald trump and his team reportedly made desperate attempts to suppress the publication of the memo by his former national. security advisor john bolton one leaked revelation from the book that was general for next week suggested trump did not know britain had nuclear weapons and other alleged trump asked chinese president xi jinping to help him win the members u.s. general election this fall amidst anxious trade negotiations and fighting between the world's biggest enemies on the india china border joining me now from beijing is a former translator for the architect of modern china deng xiaoping way way is director of the china institute and fudan university joins me now thank you so much for joining us before i even get to those geopolitical issues we've had maybe excess deaths of 60000 plus tell me about this reported 2nd spike at the scene for the

seafood market supplying what 90 percent of beijing's fruit and vegetables well 'd it's a case which we pee there are serious attention. i hope it will 'd be manageable. he treats all the. 100000 something and. 'd look at the. pace it's also dropping it's only on the one i don't like me well. we have. enough experience to do this i should just ask you about contact tracing because we have way more cases than that and we are ending our lock down now you have a complete lockdown. how do you view how do you view how or how coronaviruses affected britain where we've had maybe maybe more than 60000 excess deaths to be honest i

think you can. wish the country should learn a bit wrong china now we take this deadly serious with think it's a mad lie and there's people's lives come 1st not business interests so with this in mind we try to trace. every case and that's the chinese kiran's which include the work very well both within china countries well obviously the news here is less actually about any advice china might have on coronavirus reporting here is europe war with india 20 indian soldiers killed in the himalayan gul one valley by the people's liberation army and what do you know about the clash of this clash of nuclear powers erthly from the information i can collect its up to now stew a kind office to fist fight is not. gun shooting not killing

by guns obviously both sides want to control the damage on the whole it's about peaceful solution to this dispute and personally i think maybe had to do with india's domestic reason. i don't know it has to do with the i think and corbett 19 deaths are not 'd well because no one has all of sudden all the border skirmishes with china. and yes. i don't look to divert people's attention for why other don't think in the try to launch a war effort in that this particular incident occurred within the chinese line of control says that india's troops and indochina well we hope to be speaking to the indian a commission that's not at all how the defense minister put it he said the nation

will never forget their bravery and sacrifice of the dead soldiers and the indian foreign minister and a superstar said this was an attempt by the chinese side to unilaterally change the status quo 'd what certain about is. really this particular incident has occurred. wheezing the untrue of the chinese side eventually perhaps the set right now that were. so obviously this a provocation for an indian side so far read the talk by 2 foreign ministers. both talk about peaceful solution to this dispute this is a good sign well the chinese foreign ministry spokesman jolly john did say it was a provocation from india's side can you putting your geopolitical hat on as a keen observer of these things can you see how nature nations might encourage or

certainly could be accused of being pleased by a fight between superpowers of the future like india and china india apparently using u.s. intelligence to claim that 35 peer lay troops were casualties in this clash apparently you know there it is. a city called. ok if i the united states but from my knowledge india is also very quare ships on this indochina in the pacific. india the no one to choose between china and states and of course china and india to use the treaty. and i don't think only india think india can fight the war and win the both sides will reach a peaceful settlement of course the border disputes between the 2 countries have been going on for decades it will not be resolved easily yeah but this is the 1st

time for what 50 years that we've seen this many deaths on the border this comes after another nuclear nation pakistan's government allied to china saying that india is provoking a confrontation over kashmir which of course also involves the people's republic of china the position of. kashmir is very clear. we hope there will be peaceful solution to the disputes which i dispute between india china india and pakistan and 'd so we have a long vision in the ultimately india pakistan and china should develop a normal economic although in your friend i was there. 'd for about 2 weeks last year where the discussions with the in the sink tanks i think you know the message is very clear it's in the inches up both china and india to make relations

rather therefore into a trap of this in no. pacific. i still think mainly it's all the best political concerns that india provoke this. some more limited skirmish this is all useful though for mike pompei o meeting with his with young. in hawaii when he talks about trade with china given this given this narrative the china is isolated let her read the news report briefly it's obvious in 2 sides. really. hong kong. and change are all side state differences openly candidly earth you know but on the other hand both said try to implement the consensus actually in it cause

side to side to have some kind of cooperation in fighting the carbon 19 and not a natural trait the big story of the nationally arguably has been a book by donald trump's former national security advisor john bolton i mean. there been many reports that he's donald trump is fighting his own military industrial complex what do you make of these supposed revelations denied by trump that he asked for xi jinping as help in winning the members u.s. election read interesting passage about this conversation. she. apparently should. 'd beings which is what also i have been seeing a reaction from. here you mentioned the fight their own in 1000 pentagon officials

quoted in u.s. media warning of chinese economic warfare exploiting coronavirus exploiting supplies of bio warfare protection equipment here in britain the british government is talking about china somehow having to pay for coronavirus there in recent weeks . all walk a do. in china was not. active in international politics or less active it would say china was my. when china big thing slightly more at it became a chinese you know assertion more certain so we just do whatever we think it's necessary at this moral. consensus except the united states we should have. really international community acting in a unified the way the. enemy cob in 98 and china it's best to help

us here in britain a game that the foreign minister here dominic grab boris johnson's 1st minister attacking h.s.b.c. for backing the hong kong government the only thing that perhaps can take the george floyd protests off the news here is the rioting in hong kong what do you make of britain trying to offer passports to chinese citizens in hong kong. no this is a very silly decision i don't think that ask or well be very attractive to many. in the 1st place it's essentially a travel document not a work permit i remember when ansel being went to united states what 1st time. with jimmy carter and us president the us president and. immigration and those are being asked how many millions of people you want. well i

mean the massive the here china's ambassador here was pretty forthright. do you think this is this is dominic grab doing us dirty work because the ambassador here said to the british government don't do this dirty work dirty job for someone else when britain sent the royal navy sent its h.m.s. elizabeth their craft carrier to the spratly islands the british should remember should know by this year a. nation not dominant. over. history has already turned a corner so when china decided to push forward with this issue of national security law it's a done deal when ho wears a guy states or pretty tried to intervene or not no way of course every experience almost a year when your chaos and economy suffered badly almost destroyed so now this kind

of chaos prolong the chaos many people came to their senses you mention colonialism in fairness to britain statues of slave traders are coming down do you think the chinese would like statues in britain of people who peddle drugs to china killing so many chinese people when britain was a wee. one of the big drug dealing nations of the world would want those statues come down. now indeed in the 1st place this kind of demonstrations this black live to match. the u.p.a. really use the kind of deep rooted he was. obviously races in ingrained in the british economic political and social life i think it's understandable people have really bad feelings about the statue this summer

singles remind people of the ugly history of clone written chinese of have a shop a member of the art tone to air when and. still clooney a power. mad in congo no way ravishing where thank you. thank you that's it for the show will be back on monday to further investigate the source of coronavirus with big big flu all of the wrong wallace until then wash your hands join the underground you've thought about instagram twitter and facebook . join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us from the

world of politics. i'm showbusiness i'll see that. headline stories this hour at this year's u.s. holiday to mark the end of slavery in the united states sees must turn cross the country. ahead with their 1st campaign rally since the start of the day like this by a legal challenge over the risks of contagion many are calling the proposed case hypocrisy though. the protests continue at the same time. brazil becomes the 2nd country 1000000 known coronavirus interactions with public swelling over the government's handling of the brick. hard hit. populations.