hello and welcome to part from the way to me interact with the environment how we treat each other and i guess today believes that. all that in their own society is showing as community so what's in there is my passion when it comes to all that 19 well just as an analogy. that america is. that is a diversity of. epidemics and society of the black president says noting that such an honor talking to you thank you very much. thank you i'm delighted to be with you. and still in the process of devouring your book i read. the other one striking combination. rather than reading about it do roll up and damaged the story about us and. i know that the bulls.

just weeks before all of next instruct you aras you know yourself like i do at harbinger of do. i hope i'm not a harbinger of doom i haven't thought of that if i think it's a pretty certain the incident is that it is absolutely and as a result of my own life has also been somewhat up and it is like everyone else's of course and by saying that if you laugh was at the end. mad while researching your last book easily your talents would be exactly parallel wires and know that you they fully recovered from that but how was it was it only being there but actually experiencing it. why don't you recommend experiencing the disease itself that isn't my favorite memory of this period i will say i've been very interesting and instructive to be here to understand different countries

experience and disease in different ways and to note the extraordinary measure of compliance that's been a shrinking feature of the autonomy and experience in fact a local newspaper wrote a very amusing article in which it said this was the 1st time in 3000 years of the history of the city of rome or italians had ever been to bt and. i think it does show something about the compliance here and the way that the messaging was very coherent under there and i think i am not sure whether the same can be said about the united states it's also has at the time it's. but perhaps even the lawyer might tell it to your particular age i know it's a stupid question that still if you had a choice of where it's all that they said would you prefer italy or the united. actually i. have to tell you i think i would prefer to be right where i am. i

believe the american response to cozen 19 has been incoherent to put it mildly now we'll talk more about that but let me. a little bit is he sorry because for most people there is something it is a terrier bow down it's because they're so large and very difficult but the point you make in your book is that they are fairly predictable they actually still be logical he says that he has prepared for them i say that we have sincerely brought her to thank you. i'm not putting it all why it's like god is to have brought it on ourselves but we have created the preconditions for it and then we did not actually respond to the warnings that were given repeatedly for order of a century in order to deal with it so in that sense it was a chronicle of a pandemic foretold we did not respond in any coherent and constructive way to

all of those warnings from avian flu sars mers and now we have code of 19 i know there have been many warnings and you know others can get it done and they sit down with them but since we didn't know anything about the origin how with the barrier. right i think 1st thing is what dr tadros says is. in order to be just really prepared in a global world in which what happens in jakarta in the morning will happen in rome in moscow and new york city by the evening in that sense we really need a strong commitment to an international organisation. and move

resources a strong world health organisation was an important feature we also need for everyone on the planet to be have access to health care you know that there will help or even if they so lead by the hazards that you mention. and so that in the best possible way to either because some of the advice given has been very very various it was very critical or any travel bans that i was and they were very very isn't really we as the will. that this will appear. i think that we as a global community who weren't prepared are not here to give a brief to defend everything the world health organization jitters made many mistakes i agree entirely we mustn't throw out the idea of oh well funded a well organized properly led and supported our organization is something

that's so important our of our survival kit as a species and so i made the distinction everywhere goes ation makes mistakes the w.h.o. made some very big mistakes but we cannot really expect to confront. without a strong international organization that you have very thin about may very well done next. just that that disease is. own personality when i think about it 19 it strikes me as a barely mediocre virus which one have made such a name for it if it weren't for globalization am i wrong i think your runt. would not have actually arisen without what we've done to encourage spillover between species and human beings to our repay schuester struction of the

environment and particularly deforestation which brought into more and more contact with human beings so there's a. required are a large global population require massive air transportation of people all around the globe enormous speed and it required dense population in cities that are very crowded together or disease spread through the air can be readily transmitted now given how impassable cold and then to have or rather the response has been is rb we understand that the role that played exists your are perhaps very large but i have to say that everything you know who really understand the bible study of history for example you suggest that the origin is all slavery that grandison or slavery as a stripper if it leaked in florida due to no logic or are speaking

a lot about that as the old wives be the russian of racial divisions the united states. believes in slavery the consequences. any place yes let me just take one very specific example of his fun and the arrival of christopher columbus when the aspiration of the spaniards was to soup. the native population of our walk says they were called to be slavery in the mines and plantations unfortunately for the hour while columbus and his crew brought diseases that europeans experienced as childhood diseases and had a great immunity or earned immunity to them or as they are a wax this was virgin soil and they had never met or encountered these diseases and

so the small pox measles were the 2 decimated the population from over a 1000000 in about a decade to just a few sounds so it proved impossible to insulate the native population because it died away and therefore i think it began in 1512 the idea was to bring people who had a similar immune munity to some of these diseases and so they turned to the africans and so began the on from can slay trade and so we can say the turn of the awful and the development of african slavery was enlarged for condition by differential immunity it's actually my brother and sister being about it that 5 years ago they would have what is essentially is you know logically general policy but why we're getting. them i have is that although i had there they

were 896-8000 are shared humanity common and you need to return the other and they were so utterly denies humanity those people while these paradox ever rationalized i think that the 2 are actually irreconcilable and in fact it was true this was dealt with. it is found truly many of these slave states in the united states and other countries develop racial was medicine in which they claimed that people of a different race were almost 2 different species they had diseases but many of them did not overrule or if they did their bodies were affected in different ways this was the origin even of the tuskegee so who was experiment was to demonstrate this truth or instrumental not only in bringing about slavery but also at least

classically saying it all the mass and the labor value of any more than they hate me as as the prime example because the african slaves. for the last 5 have immunity as yellow you are mild is didn't have and what struck me the most about this whole story is that the leader of that very balance of the rates for all this was very strategic about the way he always brown eyes the military and waited for the yellow fever season started summer. the people really have such a good raw biology and if you know it's 100 years ago that. i think that the battle is the most of this planet or i think there was not actually a modern understanding to sound live or to your dead how was he was very phone

medical events he had worked in a hospital and he was also went to with traditional held practices in sundown that. he knew and europeans you know this is well they regarded the caribbean as a white man's grave and so it was well known to him the europeans outing when they 1st came to the caribbean or enormously. all normal in the summer too yellow fever and that they died of it in great numbers and so he used as knowledge to not to fight anything but rule warfare until the summer came and then to use true draw the soldiers of the british into the interior and they became sick and died of yellow fever and monster numbers yes this was this accounted for his success because the. french commander actually

wrote that 80 percent of his troops died of yellow fever and the other 20 percent were recovering and in capacitated degree are weapons and so only and was forced to surrender and haiti and an independent nation and with the end of slavery and eat well are good for them after this is the we have to be the story breaking over people the battles. or.

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welcome back to worlds apart with brad snowden and professor emeritus at madison university i'll be off. sites you might be at present for business no then earlier in the program we are there racial violence in the united states are sure it is pretty painful for you to observe as an american citizen but do you have any relation. to your study in other words the past 3 months isolation or joblessness who are some people who cross the. peaceful has. more violent acts and yes is the 1st answer but i think not quite in

the way that you're suggesting by your question the protests have mostly been peaceful as a 1st point i would like to know others sakon is this disease is following a terrible trajectory. targeting the disadvantage because of the conditions in which they live structured that way by our society and so that 19 as disproportionately affected are can american hispanic americans and native americans at terrible rates much more a white population and the economically more advantage so these demonstrations the killing of george foiled after months in which people have been experiencing this great disparity in their

relationship with the disease and so this was been a long term part of american law and not surprisingly people were very very aware of this disparity and were angered by a and e. are already in 899 on the grid is story and w.e.b. dubois noted these disparities in health between our african-americans and the white population and he of the most extraordinary thing was not the disparity a civilized nation we tolerate such despair but i didn't do it once you discover the economic disparity is what i think is also very interesting and perhaps. a solace. to for depression units because the mortality but maybe he'll be. grannie's a robot from what i know it's. called an engine that is so scared of the complications

from the stars that most definitely very different impact from various countries giving you actually such a good idea to have a uniform almost uniform policy of response to call it 19 around. actually think when we're talking at the moment of what's available in order to combat the disease may be different when we have there are pieces of vaccine for example at the moment however there is only really one weapon and that is social distancing and doesn't vary whether you're in mumbai or in new york city the president now the national you know very well the president was a social distance demonstrators most of them in the street or insoles which have a major economic a social impact on the populations of germany with most agree that the low dollar

the high the side of our side there are harder than others and i would assume neighborhoods in the united states and even in russia they are higher than the other states to what extent do you think economic. considerations should figure in. because we see from emergent size of the lower valleys. that eat me up all are imposing a quantum state uprising about a different society very different. no you're you're absolutely right and i don't mean to say social distancing has to be a sound alone policy and in fact if you impose nor miss long downs as has been done vigorously in india. has to be a people one star. and so what is happened as i'm not trying to say to

praise the policy of it i'm just saying that it was a stark reality that they had to accompany with our programs to ensure that people would get food. and so one does have to tailor the nature of. down of social just insane hygiene it measures to the reality of the society in which they occur but the basic strategy of war hand washing if possible a social distancing are very important the only problem is it is very possible to be in a society where there is water for how and washing and where you live so many people told room and crown to crowded slum 10 that's a social distancing becomes very very difficult to crowd just think as a consequence even countries that are applying those measures in some countries

it's some difficult in the 3rd world and we're seeing this balance upsurge in india and in want america and that's our of the result of. now correct me if i'm wrong but it was china and the 1st try the old war and the rest of the world he pretty united states. i get it from your boat that something like that may have been privatised during the place years. people didn't have more of 3 sizes more delicate schools most recently it probably has been moving towards more discrete matters like he's finding unsafe i am wondering if. this new. moral or immoral susie supposedly does a people's lives over the economy is. going to become permanent and isn't really such a progress when it comes to public. i think i would say that of public health is

the number one priority i believe of a civilized nation and so. doesn't if you do knowledge the economy to beyond a certain point you're also going to create problems of new problems of health and disease malnutrition hunger and so on and so i don't think those 2 things should be an opposition i'm not saying there should be a reopening an attempt to restart the economy i'm just saying has to be done in a very planned and careful way and not just going back to life as if kovan $1000.00 didn't exist but if you look at what's happening in your own country the people who are all over the $1000.00 nobody's observance of being out there rallies or add riots would you be surprised if after all these street even wouldn't see any peace

in the things i do expect that there will be a wave of covert 19 a result of the reopening and i believe that was in orange because the reopening was not done in a planned way and it was done before there had been a plotting of the curve as people say now and so yes i am pessimistic about what this will mean in terms of health in the united states. who are really beginning late summer and into the fall now you made a very persuasive case in one of your recent interviews that the how the most vulnerable people on the planet is a determining factor. for all of us all the 19 has demonstrated that he did leave. i don't think he is single. 1st i would think that i realize ation is far

more forceful and tackle than any. you know panic about values people act out of. self-interest far more probably that. because of any moral imperative do you think the bill now is. vast you public health. insurance or vulnerable people simply as as a result of so interest on the part of the beach or on the part of. i don't want to say that in any automatic sense and i think just very briefly i would say it depends on whether you mean short or long term short term i think absolutely not the media impact is to fracture all to break solidarity to undermine world health organisation to breaking out unity to break apart the european union in

lawsuit ways and i think nationalistic. attempts to solve the problem and the instituto are tarty are going to fail because they're dealing with physical reality and you can't bargain with nature and it's nature that has delivered this message and so people will you know only in the long term are going to have to adjust the way they live and conduct business to take into account this new vitally important aspect of our life the need to assist with that 19 so i think some important changes in a positive direction are going to happen out of our self interest as a species we can survive without changing he also said that. this car on the bar is how has it really brought us to work and the roles that of us humanity have to make huge rethinking at last at least rather than by a single prison it's on

a diet is it really the advice i think one message that i didn't do our last few weeks is that. nobody ever attacked me or my families how bad the not. eating very mostly white eat and how much we've been very disciplined about slieve acids size and most jazz. preserve your metabolism and you strengthen your immunity don't you think that it all i'd say that personal responsibility out. that aid that the governments of the world can devise. i'm afraid i half agree with you i think individual initiative of the kind that you're taking is a lot of all important and it has very important to fact this is good and needs to

be encouraged indeed there needs to be more education for individuals and sound how they can protect their selves and the people they care for that is critical the only thing i would say is that it's not possible for everyone there are all the advice as i was saying to wash your hands if you don't have water supply the advice to practice social distancing if you live in a moment by slum where there are 10 people sleeping in a room if you don't have access to education or to medical care then you're not able to do that if you can't decide when you feel ill you'll stay home to stay home for work because you found lee and you will starve if you do that so i think there are many many people not so well placed who can't take those

measures on an individual basis and the whole point of health is to be sure that those or most vulnerable in our midst are cared for and not cannot be done by those people it needs to be done on a societal basis as well that this is not the way i have to leave it there thank you very much 1st it's been a great great all. through my pleasure as well thank you so much and thank you for watching hope to see you again that's part of well the part. of our own. bar. and.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race. very dramatic to follow only closely i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time to sit down and talk.

or headline stories of this or a knife attack in a park which killed 3 in southern england is to clear it a terror incident by police the sole suspect is reported to be a libyan asylum seeker. one person is killed in an overnight shooting in seattle is no police protests campaigners resisted officers. preventing them from reaching the victims plus this hour among our look at the week's main news. supporters rallied behind a french nurse released from custody on.