well. know as well. which your thirst perhaps. hello and welcome to crossed out were all things considered i'm people about president vladimir putin in his own words tells us how he understands history and the current international system also why everybody apparently hates john bolton as he laughs all the way to the bank.

to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest george samuel ian would have as he is author of well mr pease nato's humanitarian war on your was lobbying and in london we crossed to alexander mature as he is a writer on legal affairs as well as editor in chief duran are joining cross up rules and news in germany combine rounds we're going to how it's 1st in london for . those of us that are very interested in what's going on in the international system obviously read the article the vladimir putin at published in the national interest it was titled let me approach in the real reasons of the 75th anniversary of world war 2 why did you write it and what is its importance here now the 1st reason he wrote it is because it's the sentence he sets out it's necessary it stops all the sort of the victory i should say well which washes up so that right so it's timely but of course it's also calmly because it's to reset firstly these attacks the top. place in the west and in some countries in eastern and central europe on

the sets it mainstream understanding at the start of that all the origins of the 2nd will these attempts to clayton russia with nazi germany as the region of the 2nd will was used strongly wishes to refute under 2nd days because i think he's very concerned the current international developments and he wants to draw parallels between what happened before the 2nd well and what is happening now in other words the collapse of the international system which he feels was unsustainable before the 2nd well and he's very unsustainable so. that's really extremely well said you know george the the article is it's a very long extremely detailed and my 1st reaction is this is a historical document all by itself it was only published a few days ago the parallels of the the 1930 s.

and what we have right now in the international order is is following a part fragmenting and this is one of the it is the primary reason other than nazi aggression started the boer war and europe and i think the parallels are really quite have me have the united states using sanctions as a political weapon we we have constant pressure being brought against iran against and israel but has no basis in international law and this and this is a very appropriate one and i'd like to point out to you that the united states is walking away from the entire. spectrum of arms control agreements i think this is very dangerous as well. yes you're absolutely right peter. and the sanctions regime that the united states has in particular are imposed against russia which is a very very serious business and that both the democrats and republicans want to

tighten every you know you know as a as moving forward so whoever wins this election will want to impose some kind of sanctions some kind of penalties is russia the obsession obsessive hatred of russia and now that prevails in london and in washington is a very serious business and i think that. this is one of the issues that in a certain point thing out that this this really it does get into a very dangerous situation so what he's saying is that. this dangerous situation is part and parcel and that as alexander pointed out with this revisionist view of world war 2. according to which the nazis and the soviets jointly launched it and this was a european parliament resolution this isn't some historic use or inquiry just pontificating away this is a risk resolution of the european parliament joint aggression by the soviet in and

you point out you know important facts to keep in mind and said no that wasn't right was in september like in 39 no one no one stopped england and france from invading joe met me my job was preoccupied with paul and it was a non-aggression pact no one stopped you didn't do anything so you still are blaming the soviet union for that so he's pointing this out and saying this is bottom ponselle of this. this most of the world's this is over you know and then he moves on into the 2nd part of the article which is. like this restore the. post world war 2 or the. he's used as the basis of it the permanent 5 members of the security council so you know where we need to be moving now you know alex and also i mean if we can just look at present day politics we see the fragmentation in the weakening and the lack of mission of

nato and i'm not i think this is one of the reasons why they're changing this narrative because nato needs to have an enemy to justify its own existence and you know and we have poll after poll deeply in germany where the german public wants americans to leave 75 years after the fact they want them to start rebuilding but of course this is a switching major we have the neo cons in the entire political bipartisan consensus in washington well let's move them to poland which would be in violation of riemann's ending the cold war but again they just want international law and that is really the basis of the article that hu jintao accompt about is the foundations of international law it fell apart it fell apart before the 2nd world war and that is that waves of the footsteps of france and britain ok not the soviet union absolutely can i just point out that this idea of the city union and nazi germany being allergists to start the 2nd will rule together is

a fringe theory in academic circles it is a fringe there are some people in the police it or wells are adults it amongst academics it remains a fringe there it. is expressing what is still very much overwhelmingly the academic consensus but the parallels he has joint goals are and they're very interesting is that often the 1st will move in the lead up to the eventual start the 2nd will you see a extremely unfair system stoutish invests is very interesting and he's attacking for the. it started as far as i know from a russian point you've the entire this is when johnny being essentially constantly elite by the allies leading to very very common consequences now he's not saying i think you know that russia has been put in exactly the same way but what he's

pointing to is the fragility of a system in which they're all green is self appointed when it see it as then mission to constantly be telkom lose and at such a system becomes deeply on balance and it becomes increasingly fragile and that's way you get things like nate continuing to this you a calling to all this you can say or an ending expansion of focusing all russia as aggressive states which he's not by the way and. make tensions in europe and in the worlds which really have substantially cools because as correctly points out all the great powers would you come to get us through the security council the united nations system it would be perfectly

possible to result problems. you know toward one of the things i took away from the article again and i suggest our viewers have a read through because it's absolutely fascinating is that be the issue of sovereignty and protecting one's own defined national interests ok in the end and what i find really interesting is that because during the cold war it was it was an ideological conflict with the cold war is over and so you want to bludgeon russia. like it was the soviet union the soviet union has no ruling idea i'm sorry russia today has no ruling ideology ok so the parallels don't work anymore and so what putin is saying is that like the soviet union russia of today will defend its national interest as it defines it it's about sovereignty sure. yes and this is a very important point that the russians and putin and love are often made over and over again which is the united nations charter in shrines the principle of national

serenity and that there is an equality between all nations no matter how small that they are sovereign and that there is no right on any on anyone's part to bully other smaller nations and to tell them what how they should run their own. and so you know yes he indeed he's pointing this out as this kind of western regime change operations that prevailed over the last few decades is the violations of the united nations charter that again it goes back to his point that. you know in 1045 there were sensible leaders who created a you know for want of a better word new world order that respected national serenity wrote the united nations charter and created a balance of power system which was the united nations security council that took

into account the interests of the great powers which and their head hence the failure of the league of nations which didn't answer yes that's what he's insisting yeah we need to go back to that and at that time and he wants this out so that the leaders of the western powers always acknowledged a that the sacrifices that the soviet union made will do that they did the heavy lifting and that there was no symmetry between what the nazis did and what the u.s. assad it was and you had said it's just you never accuse the u.s.s.r. or be in aggressor rosell never did. and it had nothing to do with ideology if you look at the bound nations of of the united nations it didn't point out that it didn't focus on ideology it looked at the existence of sovereign states and how they would be as actors on the international stage alex let me go back to you and finish up on this point one of the things i think is also interesting about the

article is the the rule of law in international institutions and we get this route this route vision is theory that revisionist history that's coming out is it is sidestepping it wants to avoid these or even dissolve these institutions and and that is a political agenda and it's a an agenda towards a gemini i would say what absolutely this what what the agenda me is that you say that certain western palace where the ones that seem to hand at fulton won the 2nd world war you gentle gus the soviet union smelt full which is what mike baird you say that the soviets and the. parson possible the same evil a law against the gas so you dandle adds you completely deconstruct the international system as it was creates after the 2nd. and you

empower morally by setting out through this get twisted version of history you morally impel a small number of states to dictate against the rest which is the old i mean. up there is the end of segment by saying no birth to signaling it's come to the history of a 2nd world war right gentlemen i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion and a real mistake. you cannot be both with the yeah you like.

my no 2 no crowd. no shots. actually felt. well dr no 1st. point should your thirst for action.

welcome back to cross talk were all things are considered i'm peter about remind you we're discussing some real names. ok let me go back to george and budapest well john bolton has put himself in the news actually but you very much liked and i really liked in an article that came with everybody in washington he's john bolton and this was a republican say he's disgruntled while democrats think he's just trying to sell books and trump calls him a sick puppy. well he's still laughing all the bank though there is a bit of a trial be out there and it's questionable right now he's going to be able to earn the order of the profits from this book that why anyone would read is a mystery to me though hi george. yes there is a county yet it could be that bolton will be tied up in the

courts because the judge suggested. that bolton did in fact review classified information and didn't really go through all the proper vetting procedures of the white house so there are there are grounds for. ministrations lawsuit against bolton so that so that's a problem or. the conventional wisdom is that oh this load affect anyone. voting habits because those who hate trump will vote against those like trump will vote for trump i think i do think that this does damage trump because trump hyun bold no one forced him to do it and when he hired him there were many people you know what the hell is he doing you think you're doing all 3 of us operative. if anyone opposes the agenda that trump ran on in 2016 is john bolton and of course as

soon as bolton arrived in the white house he needless other pursuing his agenda regime change war against everyone. you know it israel 1st everything that reflects a known peace on the korean peninsula you know that's right exactly so this really does raise questions of very serious questions about trump's judgment and that goes extends to all of his appointments if ever ever when he's going to have it walks away from him full of hatred for him well of course they were because they all hated his agenda but he's the one who opposed them you never opposed it you never appointed anyone who would actually believe in his agenda and would try to implement his agenda so he does it is down to trump and his judgment yet you know and that's one of the things i find interesting that the bolton's behavior you know earth surrounding his book and get. doing it to the public it's very much his style

of breaking the rules flaunting the laws if when he did it as a foreign policy adviser during his long and checkered career he's doing in his own personal life the rules don't apply to me that's what it gets down to you and that's you and that's what you can disarm him so him that way his foreign policy is and we do what we want to do and everyone else has the follow international law because we don't he is truly an exceptional person out the is a man without one of the people who doesn't like him is the judge of the case made it very clear that he disapproves strongly of mr bolton precisely that race but that is needed consistent perhaps an o. bolton's career he's an extraordinarily good tool beery krasniqi in fights at east sats many will in many places in international institutions at the head of the international atomic energy commission the head of the el organization for the

prohibition of chemical weapons all sorts of many places of poland's fall of john bolton a few about a year ago it was rate on the north korean embassy and i think spain portugal and bolton was widely tipped on that egypt cultural sea just wasn't only to secure our viewers know that that was when trump was going to meet with king. just to sabotage that we don't have the evidence but it's a very interesting coincidence that i think we would all agree or you know you george what's really interesting is how bolton is playing his cards because now he's the darling of the resistance and it just shows how the the political political thinking is to short circuit short circuited itself because bolton is one of them is one of the most agreed. neo-cons out there and now you have

the left in racing him only because he's taking a swipe at the big bad orange man in the white house i mean that it shows an enormous amount of lack of. intellectual and moral integrity i would say. well because there's a lack of integrity of it but it is ironic that leave liberal democrat media complex is actually now has embraced the bolt on the agenda. they have had though they hatred for putin and russia that bolton espouse us that's right actually the democrats media consensus hatred towards china that's also pretty much the i mean this biden is attacking trump for being too soft on china for cow traveling to china so again bolton is not outside the consensus there. a korea he trumpets been repeatedly attacked for what has been actually a sensible policy and attempt to

a secret process known with north korea and the nuclear isolation of the current bill is your trump has been repeatedly and i. am a democrat on that so you know he put the bold agenda is actually the so-called liberal media agenda it is or it is surprising that there's a younger is right you know that. there is there is trump you know cow towing to the dictator. you know it's interesting going back to the title and politico alex everyone in washington hates john bolton but everybody in wisconsin except bolton's world view him as a really quite amazing it is easy it is extraordinary and we just just consider i mean the breaking point of parent leap between something bold the final straw was the trial didn't start the ball was in front the general gratz a supposedly fault ruts rossmore with iran is they mean kids he'll get a great. frat and yes they are supporting john

bolton. in this quarrel it's very very strange every vote ultimately in the just decision in. washington's always seems to be the other choice between war and peace use polled all over the piece which is of course well bolton once you said it because multan doesn't believe in international agreements he doesn't believe helms control even least the word of the united states should be decisive in every set starts and he considers that the united states has the rights to enforce its news by full set that has an agenda for wool which everybody in washington ultimately accepts it's very strange and frankly very very dangerous you know georgia i the legacy of bolton is that is what we heard during

the impeachment process is interagency policy consensus ok that is his ultimate legacy and we and it's really quite interesting if you look at bolton is any he's long been associated with the g.o.p. he was bastards the united you've never confirmed by the senate again you know kind of breaking the rules going around but it what's interesting is that. he has left this behind this interagency policy consensus and it is just a failure from beginning to end and what it's done also is to destroy any kind of state crowd in terms of diplomacy there is no need for a secretary of state anymore for example who had. no there isn't there the bolton worldview if which is that there should be no diplomacy no negotiations the united states should just simply issue diktats ultimatum to countries and it should

countries fail to meet those ultimatum then the united states has to resort to force that is the bolton view and when you think of the attacks trump from from the so-called liberal media and the rest they are attacks on the things the trump actually is quite sensible about i mean there's plenty of things to criticize trump on but if they attack him book well the things that he does have a sense of look so there's no no real attacks on trump for walking away from the i.n.f. treaty. because the know it no attacks trump for assassination of the leader of iran the general sort of money earlier this year. and at the very things when he says well i think we should. improve relations with russia that gets attacked well i think nato is simply a museum piece why why on earth we keep going with this thing that does nothing for us and does nothing the member states of nato that he gets ferociously attacked on

and again. in the case of korea so it's the sensible things that trump does that gets attacked. and the worst of the the reckless dangerous follies things you know he just what he can walk through you know and he's got to go and you know it's it's really i thought it was really pathetic when trump was speaking to the graduating he dead so what's the point and he was talking about ending endless wars and i thought it was a bit of mix humiliating for him to say that because that's what he was he said he went to there in the last election cycle and it's because he is he's ahead on in his administration people like john boehner. elliott abrams i mean i'm a convicted felon. it's been oh it's a human resources problem and it's his own damn fault i would say because if you're saying the same message you know you're a candidate 4 years ago you're the president of the united states right now and

you're talking about it we have to end these endless wars well it shows look it shows a lack of leadership or at least leadership style as it would all troubles juice he wants to have it both ways he wants to be the president who has the rules and at the same time be the tough strong president who you know ease his redmarley if he's straight some toughness you can't you've got to make a choice and the trouble with some of these he always seems to go through those who gave him the agent which is the one he wants rejects over the policy that he's committed soon or says he is committed the result is he's policy has not only not gone anywhere it's actually requests we've not had a new wolves but we've seen many of these rules intensive and we trust with

syria when he tries to get a stern letter happens in fact they simply meet get region so he picks the wrong people because he hasn't worked out any say what kind of president he ultimately wants well unfortunately ran out of time gentlemen but as i say one thing it shows strength when you want to be a peacemaker that is with the greatest role that any leader can play is a peacemaker and i unfortunately he's missed an opportunity at least in this term that's all the time we have i want to thank my guests in budapest and in london i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time remember.

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a little thing that hollywood is a very. loyal is a really fun one so the business on the other side is in a. union or near the border. you know very. hollywood. plays and the idea you've got the movies are heroes. you got the music industry sometimes as we know it's a place where there's a lot of propaganda. or whatever part of the the u.s. government is committed. you can do all that hollywood will be following you.

well. how would i define a hollywood they call it a dream manufacturer which is things true. but i think equally it's probably the end of the. long after i 1st heard about it in the news i still couldn't believe this was this really how the united states sees the history of forward 2 but there it was the official white house on a social network and it's clearly stated that it was american great britain that defeated the nazis during the 2nd world war without even a word about the soviet union and the version on the official.