hello and welcome to cross out we're all things are considered i'm people about president vladimir putin in his own words tells us how he understands history and the current international system also why everybody apparently hates john bolton as he laughs all the way to the bank.

to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest george samuel would have as he is author of bombs for peace nato is humanitarian war on your was lobbying and in london we crossed to alexander mature as he is a writer on legal affairs as well as editor in chief duran are joining cross up rules and news in germany combine rounds we're going to how it's 1st in london for those of us that are very interested in what's going on in the international system obviously read the article the vladimir putin at published in the national interest it was titled let me approach and the real reasons of the 75th anniversary of world war 2 why did you write it and what is its importance now the 1st reason he writes it is because it's the sentence he sets out it's necessary it stops all this they actually i should say well which washes up celebrate so it's time but of course it's also telling really because it's to reset firstly these attacks the toxic.

in the west and in some countries in eastern and central europe on the sets it mainstreamed understanding at the start of that all the origins of the 2nd will these attempts to clayton russia with nazi germany as the region of the 2nd will was used strongly wishes to refute on the 2nd is because i think he's very concerned the current international developments and he wants to draw parallels between what happened before the 2nd well and what is happening now in other words the collapse of the international system which he feels was unsustainable before the 2nd well and he's very unsustainable so. that's really extremely well said you know george the the article is it's a very long and extremely detailed and my 1st reaction is this is a historical document all by itself it was only published a few days ago the parallels of the the 1930 s.

and what we have right now in the international order is is following a part fragmenting and this is one of the it is the primary reason other than nazi aggression started the. war in europe and i think the parallels are really quite me have the united states using sanctions as a political weapon we we have constant pressure being brought against iran against and has whale but has no basis in international law and this and this is a very appropriate one and i'd like to point out to you that the united states is walking away from the entire. spectrum of arms control agreements i think this is very dangerous as well go ahead jump and. yes you're absolutely right peter. and the sanctions regime that the united states has in particular are imposed against russia which is a very very serious business and that both the democrats and republicans want to

tighten you know you know as a as moving forward so whoever wins this election will want to impose some kind of sanctions some kind of penalties pressure the obsession obsessive hatred of russia and now that prevails in london and in washington is a very serious business and i think that. this is one of the issues that in a certain point thing out that this this really it does get into a very dangerous situation so what he's saying is that. list dangerous situation is part and parcel that as alexander pointed out with this revisionist view of world war 2. according to which the nazis and the soviets jointly launched it and this was a european parliament resolution this isn't something he's sorry the story and quite just pontificating away this is a recent resolution of the european parliament joint aggression by the soviet in

and you point out you know important facts to keep in mind and said no that wasn't right was in september like in 39 no one no one stopped england and france from invading joe mckinney why joe he was preoccupied with paul and it was a non-aggression pact no one stopped you didn't do anything so you could use the blaming the soviet union for that so he's pointing this out his saying this is bottom ponselle of this. this most of the world's this over you know and then he moves on into the 2nd part of the article which is. let us restore. the post world war 2 or the. he's used as the basis of it the permanent 5 members of the security council so you know those were those are the days when there was the ability in the world and they want to see this is where we need to be moving now you know alex and also i mean if we can just look at present day politics we see the fragmentation in the weakening and the lack

of mission of nato and i'm not i think this is one of the reasons why they're changing this narrative because nato needs to have an enemy to justify its own existence and you know and we have poll after poll deeply in germany where the german public wants americans to leave 75 years after the fact they want them to start rebuilding but of course this is a switching major we have the neo cons an entire political bipartisan consensus in washington well let's move them to poland which would be in violation of freeman's ending the cold war but again they just want international law and that is really the basis of the article that hu jintao accompt about is the foundations of international law it fell apart it fell apart before the 2nd world war and that is a wave of the footsteps of france and britain ok not the soviet union absolutely can i just point out that this idea of the city union and nazi germany being

allergists to start the 2nd will again is a fringe theory in academic circles it is a fringe theory some people in the police it or wells are adults it amongst academics it remains a fringe there it. is expressing what is still very much overwhelmingly the academic consensus but the parallels here is julie also and then very interesting is that after the 1st woman in the lead up to the eventual start of the 2nd world you see a extremely unfair system. stoutish invests is very interesting and he's attacking the 1st started as far as i know from a russian point you to the entire this is when johnny being essentially constantly bullied by the allies leading to very very common consequences now he's not saying

i think you know that russia has been put in exactly the same way but what he's pointing to is the fragility of a system in which they're all green is self appointed when it see it as then mission to constantly be telkom lose and at such a system becomes deeply on balance and it becomes increasingly fragile and that's way get things like nate continuing to this you a calling to all this you can say of an ending expansion of focusing all russia as aggressive states which he's not by the way and. make tensions in europe and in the worlds which really have substantially cools because as correctly points out all the great powers would to come together

through security council united nations system it would be perfectly possible to result to problems. you know towards one of the things i took away from the article again and i suggest our viewers have a read through because it's absolutely fascinating is that be the issue of sovereignty and protecting one's own defined national interests ok in the end and what i find really interesting is that because during the cold war it was it was an ideological comparable the cold war is over and so you want to bludgeon russia. like it was the soviet union the soviet union has no ruling idea i'm sorry russia today has no ruling ideology ok so the parallels don't work anymore and so what putin is saying is that like the soviet union russia of today will defend its national interest as it defines it it's about sovereignty sure. yes and this is a very important point that the russians and putin and love are often made over and

over again which is the united nations charter in shrines the principle of national serenity and that there is an equality between all nations no matter how small that they are sovereign and that there is no right on any on anyone's part to bully other smaller nations and to tell them what how they should run their own best and so you know yes he indeed he's pointing this out as this kind of western regime change operations that prevailed over the last few decades is the violations of the united nations charter that again it goes back to his point that. you know in 1045 there were sensible leaders who created a you know you know for want of a better way than you were out of order that respected national serenity wrote the united nations charter and created

a balance of power system which was the united nations security council that took into account the interests of the great powers which and their head hence the failure of the league of nations which didn't answer yes that's what he's insisting yeah we need to go back to that and at that time and he wants this out so that the leaders of the western powers always acknowledged a that the sacrifices that the soviet union made will that they did the heavy lifting and that there was no symmetry between what the nazis did and what the u.s.'s out it was if you had said it's just to never accuse the u.s.s.r. or be in aggressive rosell never to. and it had nothing to do with ideology if you look at the bound nations of of the united nations it didn't point out that it didn't focus on ideology it looked at the existence of sovereign states and how they would be as actors on the international state alex let me go back to you and

finish up on this point one of the things i think is also interesting about the article is the the rule of law in international institutions and we you get this root this root nation is theory that revisionist history that's coming out is it is sidestepping it wants to avoid these or even dissolve these institutions and and that is a political agenda and it's a an agenda towards a gemini i would say what absolutely this what what the agenda me is is that you say that certain western palace where the ones that seem to hand at bolton won the 2nd world war you gentle gus the soviet union smelt a full which is what mike baird did you say that the soviets and the germans would pass on possible the same evil a law against the gas so you dandle adze completely deconstruct the international system as it was creates it after the 2nd. and you can't

you can't palla morally vice setting up through this get twisted version of history you know really in palo a small number of states. against the rest which is the old i mean it's a stiff upper lip is the end of segment by saying no birth to signaling it's come to the history of the 2nd world war right gentlemen i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion and a real mistake. a.

listening to national will discover you know when the benefits of the lessons that solicit it to prevent. her from the regular morgue you're more your partner are going to provide.

all those lucifer mistletoe is just that a lot of them to fail. it is not my achievement mr davies are 5 you have plans for conceit. and carried out by the people themselves if gallo would produce or even floor kit with the idea of making a film like this he probably be branded as crazy. now is the sentiment during the war the soviets were brave heroes resisting nazis that's going to change of course after the war but once the cold war begins. little people think that hollywood is a free place but hollywood is strictly defined by only one side of the business and the other side is idealists. how would i define hollywood is they call it a dream manufacturer which i think's true but i think equally it's a problem in the fact.

welcoming to cross the uk where all things are considered i'm peter about remind you we're discussing some real. ok let me go back to george and budapest well john bolton has put himself in the news actually but you very much liked and i really like an article that came kind of with the oh everybody in washington hates john bolton and this of republicans say he's disgruntled while democrats think he's just trying to sell books and trump calls him a sick puppy or he still laughing all the banco there is a bit of a trap be up there and it's questionable right now he's going to be able to earn the harder the profits from this book that why anyone would read is a mystery to me though hi george. yes there is

a county yet it could be that bolton will be tied up in the courts because the judge suggested. that bolton did in fact review classified information and didn't really go through all the proper vetting procedures of the white house so there are grounds for. ministrations lawsuit against bolton so that so that's a problem for him. the conventional wisdom is that oh this won't affect anyone. voting habits because those who hate trump will vote against from those like trump will vote for trump i think do think that this does damage trump because trump hyun bold no one forced him to do it and when he hired him there were many people what the hell is he doing you think you're doing all 3 of us and. if anyone

opposes the agenda that trump ran on in 2016 it's john bolton and of course as soon as bolton arrived in the white house he needless other pursuing his agenda regime change war against everyone. you know it israel 1st everything that reflects a no peace on the korean peninsula you know that's right exactly so this really does raise questions of very serious questions about trump's judgment and that goes extends to all of his appointments if ever ever when he's going to have it walks away from him full of hatred for him well of course they were because they all hated his agenda but he's the one who opposed them you never opposed it he never appointed anyone who would actually believe in his agenda and would try to implement his agenda so he does it is down to trump and his judgment yet you know and that's one of the things i find interesting that the bolton's behavior you know

earth surrounding his book and. doing it to the public it's very much his style of breaking the rules flaunting the laws when he did it as a foreign policy adviser during his long and checkered career he's doing in his own personal life the rules don't apply to me that's when it gets down to you and that's you and that's what you can disarm him so him that way his foreign policy is and we do what we want to do and everyone else has the follow international law because we don't he is truly an exceptional person out the is a man without one of the people who doesn't like him is the judge of the case made it very clear that he disapproves strongly of mr bolton's and precisely that reason but that is needed consistent accident oh bolton's career he's an extraordinarily good tool beery krasniqi in fights he's sacked many will in many places

in international institutions at the head of the international atomic energy commission the head head of the el organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons all sorts of many places of poland's fall of john bolton a few about a year ago it was rate on the north korean embassy and i think saying portugal and bolton was widely known that egypt cultural sea just was not only to secure our viewers know that that was when trump was going to meet with king. just to sabotage that we don't have the evidence but it's a very interesting coincidence that i think we would all agree here you know you george what's really interesting is how bolton is playing his cards because now he's the darling of the resistance and it just shows how the the political political thinking is to short circuit short circuited itself because bolton is one of them is one of the most agreed. neo-cons out there and now you have

the left in bracing him only because he's taking a swipe at the big bad orange man in the white house i mean that it shows an enormous amount of a lack of. intellectual and moral integrity i would say go ahead. well because there's a lack of integrity of it but it is ironic that leave liberal democrat media complex is actually now has embraced the bolton agenda. they have had though they hatred for putin and russia that bolton espouse us that's right actually the democrats media consensus hatred towards china that's also pretty much the i mean this biden is attacking trump for being too soft on china for cow traveling to china so again bolton is not outside the consensus there. a korea he's trying

to spin repeatedly attacked for what has been actually a sensible policy at that and it's into a secret crush along with north korea and the nuclear isolation of the current bill is your trump has been repeatedly attacked by the democrats on that so you know he put the bold agenda is actually the so-called liberal media agenda it is or it is surprising that you know they say yeah it is right you know that. there is there is trump you know cow towing to the dictator. you know it's interesting going back to the title and politico alex everyone in washington hates john bolton but everybody in washington except for one bob dylan's world view him as a really quite amazing if he's it is extraordinary and he just just sits i mean the breaking point of parent leap between something bold the final straw was the trial didn't start a war was in front of the democrats a supposedly fault robert frost small wins a romp is they mean kids healed up

a great. frat and yes they are now supporting john bolton. in this chloral it's very very strange every vote ultimately in the just decision in. washington's a always seems to be the other choice between wall and peace use of poles wall over the piece which is of course well bolton once you said it because molten doesn't believe in international agreements he doesn't believe in helms control even lease the word of the united states should be decisive in every circumstance and he considers that the united states has the rights to enforce its news by full set that has an agenda for wool which everybody in washington ultimately accepts it's very strange and frankly very very dangerous you know george

i don't like a sea of bolton is that is what we heard during the impeachment process is interracial policy consensus ok that is his ultimate legacy and we and it's really quite interesting if you look at bolton is any he's long been associated with the g.o.p. and he was ambassador to the united and there were confirmed by the senate again you know kind of breaking the rules going around but it what's interesting is that . he has left this behind this interagency policy consensus and it is just a failure from beginning to end and what it's done also is to destroy any kind of state proud in terms of diplomacy there is no need for a secretary of state anymore for example who had. no there isn't there the bolton worldview if which is that there should be no diplomacy no negotiations the united states should just simply issue diktats ultimatum to countries and it should

countries fail to meet those ultimatums then the united states has to resort to force that is the bolton view and when you think of the attacks trump from from the so-called liberal media and the rest they are attacks on the things the trump actually is quite sensible about i mean there's plenty of things to criticize trump on but if they attack him book well the things that he does have a sense of look so there's no no real attacks on trump for walking away from the i.n.f. treaty. because the know it no attacks trump for assassination of the leader of iran the general sort of money earlier this year. but the very things when he says well i think we should. improve relations with russia get back well i think nato is simply a museum piece why why on earth we keep going with this thing that does nothing for

us and does not mean the member states of nato that he gets ferociously attacked on and again. in the case of korea so if the sensible things that trump does that gets attacked. and the worst of the the reckless dangerous for listings you know he just what he can walk through you know and he's got to go and you know answer is really i thought it was really pathetic when trump was speaking to the graduating debts of west point and he was talking about ending endless wars and i thought it was a bit of humiliating for him to say that because that's what he was he said he went to there in the last election cycle and it's because he is he's. had on in his administration people like john boehner. there elliott abrams i mean i'm a convicted felon. it's been oh it's a human resources problem and it's his own damn fault i would say because if you're

saying the same message you know you were a candidate 4 years ago you're the president of the united states right now and you're talking about it we have to end these endless wars well it shows look it shows a lack of leadership or at least leadership style as it would all trump wants to see wants to have it both ways he wants to be the president who has the rules at the same time be the tough strong president who you know ease his written law if he's straight some toughness you can't you've got to make a choice and the trouble with some of these he always seems to. be who gave him the agent stuff which is the one he wants rejects over the policy that he's committed soon or says he is committing the results is he's policy as not only not going anywhere it's actually requests we've not had

a new wolves but we've seen many of these rules intensive and we trust with syria when he tries to get a star on larry happens in fact this is the meat get region point so he picks the wrong people because he hasn't worked out any say what kind of president he ultimately wants well unfortunately ran out of time gentlemen but as i say one thing it shows strength when you want to be a peacemaker that is with the greatest role that any leader can play is a peacemaker and i unfortunately he's missed an opportunity at least in this term that's all the time we have i want to thank my guests and budapest and in london i want to thank our viewers for watching us here are to see you next time remember.

we go to work. straight hold. on i'll show some seemed wrong. holds just don't hold. the old beliefs yet to shape our disdain for conflict educate and in gains from an equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart when she's to look for common ground.

a lot of liberals think that hollywood is a very. liberal is. defiant. in the business and the other side is an ideologue. you're a reward browner horary morning you know. probably when you bring your money. hollywood is both a place and an idea has got the movie studios television you've got the music industry sometimes as we know it or so places where there's a lot of propaganda.