and it has allowed the rich to get richer as times get tougher you know for years they've had access to this cash and capital to borrow it's only recently that the average guy can actually brought some money to get in so they threw a stripe and bad conditions and actually i've always built well under the toughest conditions because they have the access to capital that others don't they have the ways they get the money others don't so their businesses are allowed to thrive well everybody else is out of business you come by where i am in chicago and almost every small business is going to be out of business i had time to selling is over not just wiped out entire class of people because you allowed the wealthy to go out and thrive through these tough times getting access to cattle doing all the things that normal people don't get to do so the class divide will continue and it's mostly because we don't really allow the true free markets work anymore we allow the the upper echelon they have a better chance and better access going forward and i think that's one of the big

problems that i see here well some in me go to richard so many of the wealthy you know look at socialism as something of a point but i mean this is exactly what they how they have to have socialism for the very very rich and concierge service and you know the state's not supposed to keep winners because that's against the markets but that's exactly what they're doing they're picking winners all of the time richard go ahead. yeah i think i agree that we are in a. zan state of capitalisms desperate effort to survive where perhaps i disagree a little bit is in looking at the government or the federal reserve or the treasury as somehow the place to start understanding what's going wrong i don't see it that way i see capitalism as a system that gets itself periodically into trouble lets remember the national bureau of economic research and many other institutions have traced through the

rise and fall of capitalism's instability its business cycles if you like every 47 years we have a downturn that's the average and typically if it takes longer than 47 years which it did since the last crash in 2009 you pay for the longer upswing by either a longer or a sharper downswing we are now in a longer deeper downswing we would have been in any case the pandemic only makes it worse blaming the pandemic is a desperate effort to allay facing the instability that dreamed that capitalism has always brought with it adding said that the federal reserve like this u.s. central bank that preceded it was an attempt to manage the very same contradictions of capitalism its business cycles its inequality and so nobody should be surprised

that an institution brought in top last sent the inequality and instability of capitalism hasn't done a really very good job of it because it has been captured like so many other government activity used by those supposedly a subject to regulation it's called regulatory capture for a reason so yes i agree the federal reserve is making the problem worse. and the recent bombing of corporate on's in the secondary market is an extraordinary crutch for private capitalism provided by the government that should make any traditional conservative about free enterprise you know really roll over and is or earnest sleeping with me had to do so for me this is capitalism running out of ways to keep itself going. when time that's the point of the program jump in i got my biggest issue here is that they don't allow the free markets to work the federal reserve

again what are they doing in the markets you know the whole chains in theory in my opinion is it stinks but i mean doesn't others are not nestle huggers and butter bread and there's a better blend and i don't think you can always the stand against a recession i think you let them happen and they have they reverse up much faster as they are creating these longer more ridiculous cycles that now put us and really all they've really done isn't played capital to nothing so my dollars are worth so much less i mean you go back you know if i go back in 1905 my money i made probably 110th of what i make now but i love the heck of a lot better life i want to earn then that i learned today they keep telling me no inflation no that's but yet they keep the flame my dollars basically are his secondary that i carry in my pocket of cash and now what they've done is they said ok we sure do enough now let's make everybody go into the stock market because we're not give you any other alternative that the investor money so it's got to go in the stock market because you get the posit money there's nowhere to go some

banks want to charge you but your money and there there is no other investment yet they don't because we're not going to be looking at a very small segment of society and you know in the 19 seventies and eighties middle class people did invest in the stock market in my memory in doing ok on my my parents you know but you have to i don't think that's that and even richard i don't think that's really the norm today i mean people. i mean look at how after 2000 nato bombing iraq had a chance to save people from losing their homes but of course he didn't do it because he had he had he was in the service of best yes an interesting bailed out the banks but he wouldn't bail out middle america and you know the same thing happening all over again you know if the thing isn't with the business samarra richard for me it seems that it is real moment i mean i mean how is this possible you have these record gains when how the country is staring into the abyss richer well i think i think what you can see here is an analogue to what we saw in the

1930 s. the last time we had a crash of this magnitude there were many many pictures in those days of farmers pouring milk into the ground while other people were complaining that they could not get milk to feed their children their babies and the country marvel at the absolutely have an economic system that could have those 2 things happening often a few miles from one another in a country like ours i think the and the allen g. today is we are watching 40 plus millions of people struggle with unemployment another $40000000.00 with the danger of unemployment coming plus the impact of their friends and relatives who are already on employed and then on the other hand a booming stock market let's remember 10 percent of americans own 85 percent of the

stocks so we are looking at another one of these milk in the ground versus desperate for milk families this is an impossible situation to sustain it teaches the mass of people in that kind of stark way that capitalism brings them these plagues and i'm not talking about a virus the plague of inequality and the plague. of instability of cyclical instability and you have to assure a later comes from the reality which i think is coming that you must ask the question no matter how much trouble is attached to it is this the system we have to live under 10 we do better than the capitalist system without getting into the debate would a sure or a free market capitalism work better we've never had any of that that's a as a huge token an image as thinking we would defend socialism or communism it's only

if we had the pure or impure but i mean i think that hang on i'm going to conduct there are obviously differences there but i can just say answered richard in that they don't have to worry about that ok because congress has already been bought ok they're never going to do anything like thanks you know tom one of the thing one of the taboos that has been broken i think over the last few months is that there is the claim there isn't any money ok of course is plenty of money apparently this endless amounts of money ok i mean even bailing out defense contractors with bailing out consultants they consult congress ok but there isn't enough to help with. payrolls ok i mean the that is this really drives me up the wall ok and i come from this from i'm a conservative ok but i think sometimes that emergency the government when it has the tools it should extend them if you're going to bail out the super rich then you

can bail out main street and you can't tell me there isn't any money go ahead. and 1st of all and in 2008 my opinion they shared a lot of banks that can to make it go under absolutely again this is the problem that they continue to bail out and the problem when you're issuing new money because not only does a fetish and the money but the banks also is no money when they use they have a tender one on a reserve. and we know that they never had enough in reserve or the government on the one of their always because it's free money to that well now they take the reserve limits off they're only making that capital available to the for the wealthy they're not making it available so then why why because. mr obama or what some other president will come to their aid and bail him out again why should they be bailed out when the average guy and the street is never bailed out you or i would be in jail or bankruptcy court under the same circumstances versus big taking

extra big bonuses because of that and this is where the problem again was back to the entire system of our way of living and it goes back to the government who made all these rotten deals which is why everybody hates president trump because he's trying to a limit a matter that is bad deals which is part of the reason is that what's going on in china and we're just getting going on with that method because those are bad deals that were made that loud and top time you know fairness in all fairness you know you know the republican held senate is going on vacation it will come back when there's an emergency when there are 40000000 emergencies going on right now i mean this is this is just a abdication of responsibility and everybody knows who say ok they've done here we're you know gated community gave up their security and they're all just fine ok i mean it's so and so i mean it actually is a complete insult to the democratic process what do you need if you when you're in

hell 2 when you desperately need help for the sake of the country they go on vacation are going to jump and you're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion and he said . he said to it to push the police so he can each other than the human plus one. but on the but i'm going to do the book on the song that is dismissed. instead of. having to. go if you will still be stuck or you know i suppose for me. but i. don't feel the. compassion that. we seem to be soldier dicky's off the

boot she's wearing. a huge wedge so she's the one sold out so it's possible. to put you know more than. that on the show stuck with some russian police force. was need to. know when he believes it wasn't that solicit it was a propagandist you also. heard from the regular morgue for your card not going to be moving through our. body but oh. ah wash your psyche herbalists lucifer this. is not my achievement mr davies our 5 year of plans were conceived. and carried out by the people themselves if al would produce or even floored it with the idea of

making a film like this they'd probably be branded as crazy. and that was the sentiment during the war the soviets were brave heroes resisting the nazis that's going to change of course after the war but once the cold war begins. little people think that hollywood is a free place but only what is strictly is. one side of the business and the other side is ideology. how would i define hollywood is they call it the dream manufacturer which i think's true but i think equally it's a propaganda for. nuclear power become a battleground in the us in vermont people are demanding the shutdown of a local plant from my yankee is right now my focus because it's a very dangerous oh no claire power plant the owner is attempting to run the

reactor beyond its operational limit this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on where's the power in this country where is it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy is or powerline with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in very real ways our struggle on r.t. . welcome back to cross talk we're all things we considered i'm futile about reminding we're discussing what kind of recovery can you expect.

richard let's go to you ok i would like to explain one of the reasons why you see the big 8 year of the federal reserve and not the government bailing out the banks. let me preface it by explaining i have no interest in protecting or defending what the banks do but i want to point out that the problem is a bit more severe in some policy choice of the federal government about to go either way they're under enormous pressures and we have to face that or else we will misunderstand the situation had we let andy a federal reserve let the big banks go on literally that was on the table as an option they would have had the following consequence in a globalized economy which we are now and we were even more so that there is an

immense competition among the world's $25.00 biggest banks not all of which are american many of them are european some are japanese now the chinese are injury and so on how do you let the american banks collapse all out the lehmann brothers failure you would have not that that was your intent but you would have given them then warmest competitive advantage to not only you'll s. banks that are global and that we're not at that time threatened with such an option in washington where the american big banks have a lot of influence you can be sure that argument was made over and over again in the not you know you said to be moral hazard or that's moral hazard ok that's blackmail or actually or deliberately i'm sorry leverage you're going to help no matter who actually is or you're going to scrap salut leak it is blackmail

you're absolutely right but that doesn't mean that it isn't correct you have to understand for me it's a sign that capitalism not only just organizes the world into a minority of rich and a mass of poor and all the other criticisms but that it creates this kind of guy. competition among a handful of monster banks that then handcuffs every society every government into having to be the handmaid or else presided over the decline of their own economy in yet another way. and i have one good reason jim i don't ever going to scores about how did they decide to choose lehmann brothers vs bears aren't they both are in my house of trouble but it does i got a flush lehman why is that. the connections between lehman and the policymakers were different than the connections between the other banks and they're the only

policy maker of would do the right thing and thought of always the manipulative thing and continued to play when we wouldn't have these problems that we see now because you've got these guys that make decisions they make right elections they do things that put certain banks better than others they put some out of business and that's a destroyer all the squall regional community bankers have to ok but then i'm going to agree with both of you so let me see if i understand this all right and you know speak slowly so i can understand so we have an economy that exists to support these banks that's what this economy is about what about everybody else ok actually that's the problem we have an economy that is now so structured so pyramid dies with the with the power at the top the wealth concentrated at the top that those people understand as all rich minorities have always understood in history before and during capitalism the more you concentrate wealth in the hands of

a relatively small number in a society that has universal suffrage that small number understands that the problem for them is that the majority when the vote can't undo that way the effect so much capital is economy that concentrate wealth at the top so they have to buy the political system otherwise they put their own achievements economically at risk and if that seems to dysfunctional for the mass of people i agree that's why i'm a critic of capitalism you know tom i mean one of the things that i really worry so much about are we entering the a new normal of a permanent underclass is it seems to me that's where it's happening in in what some of the stuff that i've read in the last few weeks is really quite fascinating is that you have. at the very very rich during this pandemics last lockdown they did consume less but the percentage less had

a major impact on the people that are serving the very very rich so that i'm just going to pull some numbers out there and their consumption goes down 3 percent the impact is like 25 percent for people that are in that it in the mode of servicing of the very very rich here and in this is just going to be perpetuated because you know the rich will be fine again but there's going to be a competition for who's going to be in the service class now and that. can even drive down wages so the question is in the is the new normal that we have a permanent an underclass of people that will never really get ahead in time by working and they gave economy and this think about all the millennia as if they just graduated from high school graduate from university and they have this this wasteland and go ahead i don't agree i think that we will be able to come out of this as we have come out of many things in the past 3 i think one of the biggest

issues that we're looking at today versus other periods in history is that it's going to the industrial age where it was easy to train people and take people that had no education no way of knowing what their internet is moving into the tech age is a much different thing and our kids now are being taught and are brought up in the tech world so their ability to work jobs they get into these industries will be much easier like you i grew from 40 to 65 i'm 63 you take my group of people i've had to go retrain to get a job i could get a job anywhere i made i could push carts in wal-mart but you get past the age and because we're moving out of all the things that help the middle class back then survive which is industrial production factory like it to a tight unit you're not saying and i don't want to get the platform to you're not saying learn code are you. i'm not but i'll never learn god but again i'm not from that era i think i'm like i can turn the computer right ok. under 5 minutes they

have my camera right so i mean i got louder i mean richard i mean i i was in academia for a long time and one of the reasons why i left is that most of the things taught at the university are junk and don't prepare people for the future ok i mean it's a lot of you know it's virtues signaling and you feel good about yourself and everybody wants so she'll just listen and i guess some of those people are employed right now all across the country ok and i find it really of this whole culture war i think it's so damaging i think we need to have a deeper meaningful conversation and i would probably agree with a lot of things but destroying that's not the way i find out of reach and underclass permanent underclass because the reason i'm saying it's not as a result of the pandemic lockdown it's just coming in to a greater release ok richer yes my short answer to your important question is yes we are developing a manse underclass look 42000000 people unemployed is an invitation to

every employer in america to approach his or her employees with the usual proposal you're going to have to take a pay cut a benefit cut you have to come in a half an hour earlier your lunch is now going to be 40 minutes instead of 16 and on and on and everyone knows why because they can because no employed person is going to take the risk of fighting back those demands when there are 40000000 fellow citizens out there desperate for the job even under the reduced conditions that are being offered so you have literally created now the opportunity for those at the top to take the next step and ratchet down the crime and the wage that the consumption levels everything else they're fought. thereby producing an underclass and look at least make this topical i think that african-americans

and others have been in that underclass for a long time they're now being joined by a whole new population of white people being put in there and part of what you show a lot in the protests ever since george floyd was still is the recognition by more and more white people that they are now part of what your question points you know it's i think that's a fascinating point but then a time out in a minute a little bit off topic from our our focus here but then it seems to mean that that's just dividing what we're going to call the underclass here because. calling everything you just like racism in meaning that is the state division of the underclass of which is easier to control by the way and i find when i find really a point is that there is energy and that and i think people have hope it's been focused laser focus on the wrong things social justice yes more economic

opportunity yes ok i think they waste too much time on statues and i think that and many ways that in advance is the agenda of the super rich because let's face it the status quo is working great for them. i could not agree more with that statement and this is one of the issues is is is the the underclass if you want to call them that now they need to get off their ass and go vote they need to do things as that of taking things the same all the way you know what was the problem in this country is we're lazy americans people don't go to the polls and now they vote out of it you know the time one of the things but one of the interesting things is you know if you look pretty clearly in the lot in the last 8 years here anyway and it will be very clear anyone that is a populist leftist gets crushed ok and. and populous conservatives they are disregarded is well ok you get the libertarians that end up running the g.o.p.

as the disastrous economic policies are might be and then you have chuck schumer and and nancy pelosi anyone their greatest enemy for those democrats are coming progressive i mean they have their day in them regressive stopping the republicans because the democrats give trump everything he well everything but the challenge from the left that's what they hate most richard go ahead below 30 seconds but the basic argument for me is this in germany just to give you that you say in germany unemployment went from 5 percent to 6 percent in the united states it went from floor to half percent to 1718 whatever the number see what we were able to throw the mass of working people white and black out of work and europe conservative leaders tend not to lose that because the political environment is organized in socialist parties labor unions don't block it so it's even once if a couple they're left in america has organized so that it has comparable influence

and not be deflected by the likes of sure alosi trump or anybody else well i hope the pitchforks come for them ok because. it's all those who have meant i want to thank my guests in new york and in kabul and make our viewers for watching us here are the see you next remember it's. secret prisons are not usually what comes to mind when thinking about europe however even the most prosperous can be deceived we've seen this 0 zone there were 2 view houses were allowed to leave prison was located and only cia people had access to the story for investigators show how they uncovered the darkest

dealings of the secret services but i mean phillips a name for the great ignore in thought or nonsense they are so full of the seem a bit sore knee yes or no for. crying for justice on oxy. nuclear power balance of become a battleground in the us in vermont people are demanding the shut down of a local plant from my yankee is right now my focus because it's a very dangerous oh no claire power plant the owner is attempting to run the reactor beyond its operational limits this case just sort of puts a magnifying glass on where's the power in this country where is it going is it moving more towards corporate interests or is it more in the idea of a traditional participatory democracy as are power lie with the people this case demonstrates that struggle in very real ways our struggle on r.t.

. you can't be both with the yeah you like.

for a street party london bridge is good rules and ends in clashes with police we visit the area to find out why. other people. new york sees its highest month of shootings in nearly a quarter of a century the grim. crime unit was disbanded following demands to defund the police black lives much of protestors. this is a skin whitening products come under foreign maclean's those goods are racist companies have now. pulled them from the shelves completely it's an issue for the for.