hello and welcome to cross top where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle what is the meaning and worth of history why are there are those so determined to destroy cultural artifacts and rewrite history and so their understanding of history a true and just bashing of understanding of history is really about 2 things reverence in a warning the culture side we are witnessing rejects both like. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest under i mean he made good on you and

in moscow is a professor at the moscow state institute of international relations and in oslo we have learned these and he is an associate professor at the university of south user norway as well as author of russia's geo economic strategy for a greater eurasia telling us up close and that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was ok i was going to also let you know in preparing for this program i was and were inside even his ideas of orientalism started popping into my mind because orientalism was a way for christian west to define itself against the other other civilizations and people but it seems like orientalism as understood by slate has taken a very bizarre twist because now it is about self racism self loathing and this is where we have gotten to because there's no there's no replacement for the history that they're destroying is a void and that maybe in. tensional or not but he certainly creates conditions for

creating a new past without being anchored or can restrain the past. this is true that identities are usually created in opposition to someone so you should with say they explore other west greatest identity opposition to for example east or as a contrast what do you not see with a lot of these people is they their identity the view the other or especially their own culture don't finish and so as you correctly pointed out they want to free themselves from their own past which is by definition a revolutionary moment moment now this is very problematic because. history it legitimizes that illegal is it uses of the present and it also lays the foundation for a common shared identity and this is exactly their purpose it is to denounce their own history because they did that the country was founded on this crimes this great

crimes. then they have to address this in order to improve the present. that's one of denouncing the past now this might seem reasonable because it will hold the civilization you know very dirty assed and one should deal with this and indeed that's all they want to see themselves as overtures. so once you recognize the wrongdoings of the past for us it will be a specialist slavery and genocide of the native americans it seems that reasonable to address this however what you now see with these people especially other in their own history the problem is that there's actually it will tearing down statues they're not saying don't history it like this this is a new and because any country to rule as you mentioned relies on history if we don't have it you reject. legitimacy of your institutions that seems odd to me what they want to do cause they say it's all systemic racist they have to tear down everything and also these sharing this is how they bent the for the whole nation which you also argue these corrupted bother us. well the problem when you do this

is now you don't have any in any situations and more legitimized by the past and furthermore the us can then denigrate into mere geographical location where it's just happen to be populated by random people so you can't really have a nation with this history which is why revolutionary movements. noria who are a terrorist are choosing the loss of their own history it is a very dangerous premise you know underneath it and one of the interesting things as i said as i said in my introduction me history in many ways at least now most people understand how they perceive it is usually something that we revere a person and. a moment in time lines and sometimes it's a warning about what what can go wrong in our history and how we can learn from it but if we didn't take out the reverence and the warning at the same time you're left with a boy and how can you forgive you don't have a clear understanding of the past even if the process is very painful and let's

face it most simple is ations what i'll say every civilization as well moments that it was in gestation very few what would become so i mean if you take reverence and a warning bell then when he history bore ahead on you know i have now i like and now they're defending our history i didn't want iran are a. formulator death in your program. history it. is today's politics transparent into the process you know and it's very sad and what we are now witnessing and especially united states interest 2nd american revolution some commentators are writing this way and describing what's going on. a lot of people are limited in slimmer it they know how big you know at least in their are right it quote weighed

a wide but they considered themselves and that they are still in a kind of slaver it day didn't already come. appen. 150 years or 200 years ago and that's right they don't consider the history of this country in a way as many whites are considering for doom the figures and stat don't rich they are cheering down defacing this are not their heroes this are the people who you know a president who didn't consider them as a human being and didn't write for them these guys have no place in the history of it how do you read where do they live. that's a prayer for me but don't we get into

a situation where then you did it by getting grady they had that drawing down how good how can we think about slavery and oppression if we don't historical record of the correct meaning of that because if the people want to take down the confederates that in their own communities that's their business ok that is perfectly fine like jim mandate the end of history or that history should not be remembered is a very dangerous thing and i want to talk about what the bolsheviks did to russian history and let eventually came into it in russia when wanted to feel that. i think in this instance russia does provide some important lessons in terms of revolution or in wish and if initially if you tear up the future you tear up the past because you don't want to corrupt to their presence they want to create a new present which looks contaminated by. uh so if in russia obviously the bolsheviks they saw everything in society yes i mean being corrupted by capitalism

so the initial bolsheviks they really did what they could to tary thing up so everything from a family the church nationhood. as a everything was a reflection of this exploitation of capitalism so they pulled it all up and. mainly because it was seen as being exploited take them and also authoritarian however runs this in came to recognize so at once there's no legitimacy based on the past they became even more aligned on brutality to create a new society and a new this actually community that's wasn't defined by history anymore and again this focus on x. taking out those who it exploited them again but the horrible things are simply going to call oxen this. they said the find themselves by revolution in this continuous parish and i think that. this is again something that russia is preoccupied with today because when the soviet union fell apart again to some extent this was another revolutionary moment moment and had to deal with how do we

address 7 decades of our history and again in the west we keep saying you're just have to give a blank and condon condemnation just to denounce and i think this is of course very very dangerous because then you don't have a shared identity you don't have any legitimacy for your institutions so this is something i think you think for the russians how do you deal with a problematic and personally i don't think to shoot a mouse this soviet era they should have new institute look at the horse the crimes were committed and take those out as still recognize the good and i think that's what they've been trying to do so for example you know they russia now condemns you know for example the crimes of stalin it was committed in cutting at the same time they keep goal is to salvage what they can from history what was done right so again you can look to our state you know the world war 2 history when to save europe from the ashes from you know scientific achievements there's a lot. the soviet era you know. provide an identity and legitimacy and i think

that's very important and we haven't really appreciated that in the west the challenge and i think that's what the americans now are also have to recognize that yes how much jefferson have slaves but if you don't else i'm all together including a good idea that we lose something very important i mean you can you condemn the entire project underneath go ahead jump in yeah i think that this. comparison is not correct because you know what is the problem that in today's america when i 1st came to america. in 90 and 90. i found that this is the most non integrated society in the world because blacks were outside of society every ethnic and racial group was living in its own emilio and without having though formally de hat you know there are rights in workplaces but they never

socialising day they're isolated and when a melting pot shifts to work. america turns out to be that isolated island and it will underneath there. are just just all the other bitter vicious very important gains and until now blacks can see they're dead they are out of society and this is exactly the case that's why tearing down this white slave owners they are trying to reassess and to give their own interpretation of the history and the good they considered that they are not in total part. of this country i guess our dear friend to of and not their history it what does it mean to have another

history their representation in statutes on the squares represent a sham inquiry columbus in history literature bullshit in different places when the 1st time i came to berkeley and 99 days i was there miss run one of the professors from russia he said listen it's very strange things happening this. blacks and endurance are telling to get composition of professors is a to present white 20 percent black but composition of students 80 percent black sand. and 20 percent white would need to vote at just this you know structure oh ok so we need more social engineering that's what you're saying that's very dangerous we have a break before we go to the break underneath. that thread. i would like to point

out underneath your candor rant of liberal each other my friend i'd like to end the 1st part of the program with a reminder to you that a black man was elected president of the united states twice and it was white people that voted for him to assume office so i don't i think we have to be now go to the extremes right here or i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll can you know our discussion. ah no team no crowd. no shots. actually helps me. going to track

no arrests. quench your thirst for action. a minimum wage doesn't guarantee you a job it guarantees you that if you get a job and be paid that wage but it's precisely that guarantee that means you're less likely to get a job and so i would predict probably over a 1000000 people would lose their jobs if the minimum wage were doubled to 50 now they want to phase it in so maybe $800000.00 people. and that would be differentially in communities or a lot of black people helping out of mississippi lower wage states. secrets prisons are not usually what comes to mind when thinking about europe

however even the most prosperous can be deceived within this 0 zone there were 2 view houses were allegedly bursts of prison was located in the only safe in pool had access to the story for investigators sure hell they uncovered the darkest dealings of the secret services but i mean one of. the great of nor in. hockey seem it because sony is so full. trying for justice. on r.t.e. . welcome across up we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're talking about culture sun. ok let me go back to the glen in oslo you know in seems to me that this is another attempt. by

a very privileged group of people in south it's not the impression of the working class it really is coming from academia and it is that this this ideology that has been so hot for decades now i remember when i was at university in the early 1990 s. and now it seeped into the political system here and this is an attempt to brute bill to create a new man or excuse me a new person well the record about is pretty poor i would say look at the french revolution the bolster but revolution a little bit pol pot did in cambodia i mean the record is quite or disastrous destructive but it seems to me because these people want to destroy history they don't want to learn from history go ahead. well again that's so there must at the finish no revolution against the colonists wanted to create communist man liberated from his own. that's the kind of what you're seeing now as well you see this time to create this new western man liberated from its own you know. with of course

racism being a key part of it however underneath argued i would disagree in terms of the approach because usually i would argue that this kind of revolution or it could seem reasonable when when the society culturally reform itself and i agree i think identified this problem this yes a geisha to a large extent we're still exist however if you look at the numbers it looks like america. yes i think there is a race is capable of reforming itself if you look at all the out of from marriage between races steering inclusion. and its use and the old this is all i would say seems to be pointing in the right direction so i think there is room for improvement now in terms of the approach again or again or recognizing a lot of the same issues are you when you came to the u.s. in the ninety's i didn't get to keep problem or the disagreement is how you see society improving and you have to do different past you know to call it the or you

equity equality essentially saying like likes whites asians should all be treated the same and over time differences will start to change himself of course it will always have some cultural difference as the problem with a quickie is you demand equal outcome right away and for movies with as example are you know 80 percent white or fessor so you have to take into account if your recent demographic changes as well and once you do this it would be your specialist saying well we need less rights for some more blacks and then you begin the social engineering where everyone is judged based on the color of their skin based on their gender and then i guess you will have the opposite outcome because once you have you know a luckless matter especially you will get on the bright white my last matter as well and then you can have this right wing identity politics which you're now on the left so i think is a dangerous route to go down so again and also it's difficult because you have

these racial groups we should just mention blacks and asians they're very different indeed u.s. for example blacks will get higher scores to get well will be easier for them to get into universities asians actually perform better than whites so they actually get punished for being a sions so you really need and this is their thing and things are so awful iran is judged based on their skin under gender and sexual orientation instead of saying we need a cult in iran has the same opportunity the outcome might not be the same a supposed to do. this social engineering where you try to have everything. the outcome being exactly the same your summaries have to be pulled out of yourself because. it is a dangerous path they're living underneath that need to think this is all based on victimology ok equity you know it in terms of what glenn was just saying there you know eat the more you're a victim of the system of history the more that you're elevated well and that's not a way to create a. society that is functional i mean it may make you feel good it may make you you

know virtuous signally and all that but it in any function there functionality of that it is it simply. it creates try to lose a share and and people that feel that they're not part of the process so i think that you know this ideology that's coming out of the universities it's basically cultural marxism and really it really shows the side the real issue that's going on in its class because there are millions and millions of poor people of color and white people at the same time and this ideology is dividing them when actually the whole lot more in common then and then in the elites really want them to know what lives matter in very very convenient for the all of arcs that run the economy and the politicians that are in their pocket go ahead. i think that because of political correctness in american society there was never ever

especially during this last several big 8 open discussion about race relations and the problem is that everybody is afraid of telling a spade a spade you know because not good it is telling blacks that and they had enormous success during additional specially 50 years when i was in new york in the 5th on under 25th when it was 50th anniversary of john underwrite a political rights desegregation and all this kind of things but even at that time a lot of leaders of black community. people like l. sharpton and many others they were considering that nothing happened no progress still there if big difference in economy still is

a big difference in different areas ratios mundo this kind of thinking but not when it was telling that black left matter is a radical racist organization because they don't consider that right or life matter and just what what is the danger in current situation in that one day which such a you know such a pleasure on stretching their feet who like to just their feet and their shoot this could create their reaction on behalf of all white people and they can create their own organisation white light in math and a lot of them are not happy to see how black the left metter organisation is drank too humid. and destroy it or do you care to ditch which was created by white american tradition america dish to get depressed problem and give up

a divide in american society and that is the ideology and the message of it let me go to glenn right now i mean what that one of the most important outcomes of the civil rights movement was the voter participation so go it's go look at all of the cities that are almost all the cities that have been bernie over the last few weeks run by democrats very often by african-american mayors. who least sheaves i mean they they got the rightfully got the vote the promise of the constitution of the quality and bridges patient political life and then you have all of these cities that are so badly run and now they want to turn around and it's all because of racism which is absolutely nonsense it's bad governance and i would say bad governments it was allowed to happen because that's politically correct and comfortable and again i will not repeat i will not move away from the issue of last

week when you look at the issue of how the country is basically poor right now poverty doesn't it doesn't address attracting self just to one race to all races and when we don't look at this these inequalities it's people like black lives let me in the democratic party and the media and amazon and all the rest of it they love to play the race card because it lacks of late really is happening in the. vote there is that argument it's more attractive because it doesn't touch on the economics because. well again that's a mystery for what one can argue that the race issue can be reformed within the current political system they cannot make the question is a bit more difficult to see at the mechanisms for redistributing wealth they're kind of gone and the wealth continues to concentrate more and more obvious that there is an issue are. class in the united states with the middle class weakening very quickly i guess our policymakers instead i'm dealing really are forming the

system from within which is very difficult because they rely on the dollars and it's very difficult to get anything done i guess instead of dealing tackling these hard issues easier to deflect saying or you know look at this policeman here he did this or let's separate bathrooms for the trannies or you know whatever they're actually want to go it is identity politics i guess it's cheap it doesn't cost anything so there has been there is it is that argument that you you call it something else it doesn't mean there's not race it raise issues in united states how many of them are clear and you know you have races our limbs and every country us morocco you know germany china they're everywhere so my my my point is simply that i don't think i think it can be reform the race it's issues i just think the economics are the ones. getting worse and worse and but i think it's also natural expression of the polarization of society has gone through you began the show by talking about that would say then this other ring and i think what you see not just

in the us and other western countries as well is that the other ng sublists become the political opposition has gone from being political opposition to specially the enemy oh so this in britain as well with cameron calling you know the leader of the opposition party threats to national security and now this is common language in the us as well i think this polarization once you see your own political opposition your own people as opponents you go down this very destructive us and that's what you see in the us now as though with the for example blood clots matter taking down statues are a founders of the country which then make make that it was actually the more it conservative american seeing likewise matter as their enemy and when the cause i was for example want to keep the statues they see them as holding systemic racism and you know perpetual exploitation of them so that both are perceived shall arrest enemy and i guess a racist them all. easy explanation and it's the easiest one to play ok because it it's so imbedded into the gulf underneath it seems to me they were going reverting

it think now we're seeing actually a very perverse calls for a new segregation dividing people and this is going backwards in time all right and again with the fundamental issue here is what is legitimate. and what's going on right now is making that very very blurry go ahead and many yeah i think the most important thing which i would like to emphasize at this segment is barrack practically. on this kind of radical movement. it's to create a paragon and sense of guilt for whites before the blacks 1st and 2nd day are openly it organizing to the moment of the year no paying reparations of dish victims of slavery several treaty and i don't know how

many dollars which means this it's good mind to deeply and unfortunately it does is the most dangerous ok gentlemen i have to jump in here with run out of time i want to thank our guests in moscow and in also and i want to thank you for your skill watching us here r.t. see you next i'm remember. the world is driven by shaped by. the cares thinks. we hear to ask.

54 jets and more than 1300 military personnel are headed to heal some air force base in alaska where is that to say come on i'll show you what's the reason for any type of enhanced u.s. military presence in this area and russia. what is it suddenly about the south china sea that makes it so that it 11000000000 barrels of oil. take a look at this map who really owns what kind of says no it belongs to us india says no we claim that that belongs to us both of these countries have nuclear weapons capabilities there is reason for concern so that's why we're going to drill down on this story for you today right here on the news with rick sanchez where you know as

we always like to say we do believe by golly it's time to do news again. the new york times is criticized from all sides mentioned in its anonymous source based article claiming a rush to afghanistan to kill american troops. in the stories that shaped the week right here on our teacher national after a delayed you took over 1000 moscow finally holds its war world war 2 victory parade marking the 75th anniversary of the defeat of nazi germany. russia begins voting on constitution reforms within 2 legions making people cast their ballots online only to corona virus concerns.