hello and welcome to cross top where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle what is the meaning in worth of history why are there are those so determined to destroy cultural artifacts and rewrite history and sell their understanding of history a true and just bashing of understanding of history is really about 2 things reverence and a warning the culture side we are witnessing rejects both. to discuss this and more i'm joined by my guest under i mean he made good on you and in moscow is a professor at the moscow state institute of international relations and in oslo we have glenn deeson is an associate professor at the university of south eastern norway as well as author of russia's geo economic strategy for

a greater eurasia gentlemen crossed up rules and that means you can jump in anytime you want and i was surprised ok i was going to oslo glenn you know in preparing for this program i was and were in sight even his ideas of orientalism started popping into my mind because orientalism was a way for christian west to define itself against the other other civilizations and people but it seems like orientalism as understood by slaves taken a very bizarre twist because now it is about self racism self loathing and this is where we have gotten to because there's no there's no replacement for the history that they're destroying is a void and that may be intentional or not but it certainly creates conditions for creating a new past without being anchored or can restrain the past. this is true that identities are usually cry. did in opposition to someone so you should

with say the explore other west create is a dent in opposition to for example east or as a contrast what do you not see with a lot of these people is they their identity the view the other or especially their own culture don't finish and so as you correctly point out they want to free themselves from their own past which is by definition a revolutionary moment moment now this is very problematic because. history it legitimizes that illegal is that you shoes of the present and it also lays the foundation for a common shared identity and this is exactly their purpose it is to denounce their own history because they did that the country was founded on this crimes this great crimes. then they have to address this in order to improve the present. that's one of denouncing the past now this might seem reasonable because it will also civilizations you know very dirty us and one should deal with this and indeed

that's probably want to see themselves as so gorgeous. so once you recognize the wrongdoings of the past for us it will be special and slavery and genocide of the native americans it seems that reasonable to address this however what you now see with these people especially other in their own history the problem is that there's actually it will tearing down statues they're not saying don't history it like this this is a new and because any country to really as you mentioned relies on history if we don't have it you reject. legitimacy of your institutions that seems odd to me what they want to do cause they say it's all systemic racist they have to tear down everything and also there is sharing this how they bent the for the whole nation was you also argue this corrupted by the us well the problem when you do this is now you don't have any. institutions and more legitimized by the past and furthermore the u.s. can then denigrate into mere geographical location where it's just happen to be populated by random. also you can't really have

a nation with this history which is why revolutionary movements. are you know who are a terrorist and the loss of their own history is a very dangerous premise you know underneath it and one of the interesting things as i said as i said in my introduction me history in many ways at least now most people understand how they perceive it is it's usually something that we revere a person and. a moment in time lines and sometimes it's a warning about what can go wrong in our history and how we can learn from it but if we didn't take out the reverence and the warning at the same time you're left with a boy and how can you forgive you don't have a clear understanding of the past even if the process is very painful and let's face it most civil ization is what i'll say every civilization as painful moments that it was in gestation very few what would become so i mean if you take reverence and a warning bell then when he history bore ahead on you know i have now i like and

now they're defending their history i think iran are right there are formulated in your program. history it. is today's politics transparent into the process you know and it's very sad and what we are now witnessing and especially united states interest 2nd american revolution some commentators are writing this way and describing what's going on. a lot of people are limited in slammer it they know how big you know at least in their are right it quotes way to the white but they consider themselves and that they are still in a kind of slavery it day didn't already come. appen.

150 years or 200 years ago and that's right they don't consider the history of this country in a way as many whites are considering for doom death figures and that don't rich they are cheering down defacing this are not their heroes this are the people who you know a president who didn't consider them as a human being and didn't write for them these guys have no place in the history of it how do you read where do they live. that's a prayer for me but don't we get into a situation where they knew did it by getting grady they had that drawing that how can you how can we think about slavery and oppression and if we don't historical record of the correct meaning of that because if people want to take

down the confederates that means in their own communities that's their business ok that is perfectly fine like jim mandate the end of history or that history should not be remembered is a very dangerous thing and i want to talk about what the bolsheviks did to russian history and let eventually came into it in russia when wanted to feel that. i think in this instance russia does provide some lessons in terms of revolution or in wish and if initially if you tear up the future you tear up the past because you don't want to corrupt to their presence they want to create a new present which looks contaminated by. uh so if in russia obviously the bolsheviks they saw everything in society yes i mean being corrupted by capitalism so the initial bolsheviks they really did what they could to tary thing up so everything from the family the church nationhood. as a everything was a reflection of this exploitation of capitalism so they pulled it all up and.

mainly because it was seen as being exploitation and also authoritarian however runs this in can recognize so at once there's no legitimacy based on the past they became even more aligned on brutality to create a new society and a new this actually community that's wasn't defined by history anymore and again this focus on next taking out those who and exploited them again but the horrible things are simply going to call oxon this. they said the find themselves by revolution and this continues perish and i think that. this is again something that russia is preoccupied with today because when the soviet union fell apart again to some extent this was another revolutionary moment moment and had to deal with how do we address 7 decades of our history and again in the west we keep saying you're just have to give a blank and clinton on the mission just denounce him i think this is of course very very dangerous because then you don't have a shared identity you don't have any legitimacy for your institutions so this is

something i think you think for the russians how do you deal with a problematic us and personally i don't think they should denounce this soviet era they should have a new institution look at the horse the crimes were committed and take those out as still recognize the good and i think that's what they've been trying to do so for example you know they russia now condemns you know for example the crimes of stalin it was committed in cutting at the same time they keep goal is to salvage what they can from history what was done right so again you can look to our state you know the world war 2 history when to save europe from the ashes from you know scientific achievements there's a lot. the soviet era you know. provide an identity and legitimacy and i think that's very important and we haven't really appreciated that in the west to challenge and i think that's what the americans now are also after recognise that yes how much a person has a place but if you've been out them all together including the good ideas that we

lose something very important i mean you can you condemn the entire project underneath go ahead jump in yeah i think that this. comparison is not correct because you know what is the problem that in today's america when i 1st came to america. in 99 day. i found that this is the most non integrated society in the world because blacks were outside of society every ethnic and racial group was living in its own emilio and without having though formally de hat you know there are rights in workplaces but they never saw russia live a day they're isolated and when a melting pot shish to work. america turns out to be

that isolated island randy and it will underneath there. are just just all the other bitter vicious very important gains and until now blacks can see they're dead they are out of society and this is exactly the case that's why tearing down this white slave owners they are trying to reassess and to give their own interpretation of the history and the good they considered that they are not in total part. of this country i guess our dear friend to of and not their history it what does it mean to have another history their representation in statutes on descriptors their representation in current columbus in history literature bullshit in different places when the 1st time i came to berkeley and 99 days i was there miss run but

one of the professors from russia he said listen it's very strange things happening this. blacks and endurance are telling that composition of professors is 8 to percent white 20 percent black but composition of students 80 percent blacks then it isn't and 20 percent white would need to look at just this you know structured oh ok so we need more social engineering that's what you're saying but it's very dangerous we have a break before we go to the break underneath. that thread. i would like to point out underneath your candor ramp of liberal each other my friend i'd like to end the 1st part of the program with a reminder to you that a black man was elected president of the united states twice and it was white

people that voted for him to assume office so i think we have to be now go to the extremes right here or i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion. join me every thursday on the alex i'm i'm sure and i'll be speaking to get a little the politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. when i was told seemed wrong all right old old just don't call. me old yet to shape out these days to come to the ticket and gain from it

because betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. ah no no crowd. no shots no. patches a goal to. drive no as to. which your thirst perhaps should. be.

welcoming to crossed up we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're talking about culture sun. ok let me go back to the glen and also you know it seems to me that this is another attempt. by a very so privileged group of people in south it's not the impression of the working class it really is coming from academia and it's this this ideology that has been so hot for decades now i remember when i was at university in the early 1990 s. and now it seeped into the political system here and this is an attempt to. create a new man or excuse me new person well the record about is pretty poor i would say look at the french revolution the bolster but revolution a little bit pol pot did in cambodia i mean the road record is quite or disastrous

destructive but it seems to me because these people want to destroy history they don't want to learn from history go ahead. well again not so they're most definitions of a revolution again. that economists wanted to create communist men liberated from his own past and that's a kind of what you're seeing now so all you see this attempt to create this new western man liberated from his own you know flow past with of course racism being a key part of it however underneath argued i would disagree in terms of the approach because usually i would argue that this kind of revolutionary a it could seem reasonable when when there was a side the country reform itself and i agree i think identified this problem this yes a geisha to a large extent which still exists however if you look at the numbers it looks like americas i think there was a race is capable of reforming itself if you look at all the to from marriage between races steering inclusion. and its use and hold and this is all

i would say seems to be pointing in the right direction so i think there is room for improvement now in terms of the approach again or again or recognizing a lot of the same issues are you when you came to the us in the ninety's i didn't get to keep problem or the disagreement is how you see society improving and you have to do different parts you have to call it the or you equity equality essentially saying like blacks whites asians should all be treated the same and over time differences will start to change himself of course it will always have some cultural difference as the problem with a quickie is you demand equal outcome right away and for movies with as example are you know 80 percent whites are fessor so you have to take into account if your recent demographic changes as well and once you do this it would be your specialist saying well we need less rights for some more blacks and then you begin the social engineering where everyone is judged based on the color of their skin based on

their gender and then i guess you will have the opposite outcome because once you have you know a luckless matter especially you will get on the bright white my last matter as well and then you can have this rightwing. identity politics which you're now on the left so are things and dangerous routes to go so again and also it's difficult because you have this racial groups which are just mentioned blacks and asians they're very different in the us for example blacks will get higher scores to get well will be easier for them to get into universities asians actually perform better than whites they actually get punished for being a sions so you really need and this is a very big unfair things are so awful iran is judged based on their skin under gender sexual orientation etc saying we need to quote iran has the same opportunity the outcome might be the same as opposed to do the social engineering where you try to have everything. the outcome being exactly the same your summaries have to be

pulled out of yourself because. it is a dangerous path they're living underneath that need to think this is all based on big demolish ok equity you know it in terms of what glenn was just saying there you know eat the more you're a victim of the of the system of history the more that you're elevated well and that's not a way to create a. society that is functional i mean it may make you feel good it may make you you know purchase signally and all that but it in any function your functionality of that it is it simply. it creates trying to lose a share and read and people that feel that they're not part of the process so i am i think that you know this ideology that's coming out of the universities is basically cultural marxism and really it really jumps aside the real issue that's going on in its class because there are millions and millions of poor people of color and white people at the same time and this ideology is dividing them when

they actually mean a whole lot more in common then then then then the elites really want them to know what lives not very very convenient but the all of arts that run the economy and the politicians that are in there the wire. i think that because of political correctness in american society there was never ever especially during this last several big kids open discussion about race relations and the problem is that everybody is afraid of telling a spade a spade you know because not good it is telling blacks that and they had enormous success during today's special of 50 years when i was in new york in the 5th on unaired 25th when it was 50th anniversary of john

underwrite political rights desegregation and all this kind of things but even at that time a lot of leaders of black community. people like l. sharpton and many others they were considering that nothing happened no progress still there if big difference in economy still is a big difference in different areas ratios mundo this kind of thinking but nobody was telling that black left map there is a radical racist organization because they don't consider that right or life matter and just what what is the danger in current situation in that monday which such a you know such a pleasure on stretching their feet who likes to just their feet and they're sure what this could create their reaction on behalf of white people and they can create

their own organisation white life in math and a lot of them are not happy to see how black the left matter organisation is drank to human. and destroy it or do you carry dick which was created by white american tradition america dish it depressed problem and didn't pose divide in american society and that is the ideology and the message of it let me go to glenn right now i mean what that one of the most important outcomes of the civil rights movement was the voter participation so go let's go look at all of the cities that are almost all the cities that have been bernie over the last few weeks run by democrats very often by african-american mayor this. police chiefs i mean they they got the rightfully got the vote the promise of the

constitution of equality in protest patient political life and then you have all of these cities that are so badly run and now they want to turn around and it's all because of racism which is absolutely nonsense it's bad governance and i would say bad governments it was allowed to happen because that's politically correct and comfortable and again i will not repeat i will not move away from the issue of last week when you look at the issue of how the country is basically poor right now poverty doesn't it doesn't address attract itself just to one race it's all races and when we don't look at this these inequalities it's people like black lives let me in the democratic party and the media and amazon and all the rest of it they love to play the race card because it lacks of late really it's happening in the head. while there is that argument it's more attractive because it doesn't touch on the economics because. well again that's

a mystery for what one can argue that the race issue can be reformed within the current political system they cannot make the question is a bit more difficult to see at the mechanisms for redistributing wealth they're kind of gone and the wealth continues to concentrate more and more obvious that there is an issue are. class in the united states with the middle class weakening very quickly i guess our policymakers it's instead i'm dealing really are forming the system from within which is very difficult because they rely on the dollars and it's very difficult to get anything done i guess instead of dealing tackling these hard issues easier to deflect saying or you know look at this policeman here he did this or let's separate bathrooms for the trannies or you know whatever they're actually want to go it is identity politics i guess it's cheap it doesn't cost anything so there has been there is it is that argument that you you call it something else it doesn't mean there's not race it raise issues in united states how many of them are clear and you know you have races our limbs in every country

us morocco you know germany china they're everywhere so my my my point is simply that i don't think i think it can be reformed the race it is use and just think the economics are the ones. getting worse and worse and that but i think it's also natural expression of the polarization of society has gone through you began the show by talking about that would say then this other ring and i think what you see not just in the u.s. and other western countries as well is that the other ng sublists become the political opposition has gone from being political opposition to specially the enemy oh so this in britain as well with cameron calling you know the leader of the opposition party threats to national security and now this is common language in the us as well i think this polarization once you see your own political opposition your own people as opponents you go down this very destructive us and that's what you see in the us now as though with the for example blood clots matter taking down the statues of founders of the country which then makes it makes that you know

especially the more it conservative american seeing likewise matter as their enemy and when they cause i was for example want to keep the statues they see them as holding systemic racism and you know perpetual exploitation of them so that both are perceived shall arrest enemy and i guess a racist them all. easy explanation and it's the easiest one to play ok because it it's so imbedded into the gulf underneath it seems to me they were going reverting it now we're seeing actually a very perverse calls for a new segregation of dividing people and this is going backwards in time all right and again with the fundamental issue here is what is legitimate. and what's going on right now is making that very very blurry go ahead and many yeah i think that the most important thing which i would like to emphasize at this segment is that practically. all of this kind of radical movements.

it's to create their money and shenstone guilt or why it should be afforded to blacks 1st and 2nd day are openly it organizing to the moment. you know paying reparations of dish victims oh slavery several treaty and i don't know how many dollars which means dishing it's good mind to d. printing unfortunately it does is the most dangerous thing ok gentlemen i have to jump in here with run out of time on it they are in moscow and also and i want to think if you are still watching us here are you see you next on remember.

we go to work so you stay home. 54 jets and more than 1300 military personnel are headed to heal some air force base in alaska where is that to say come on i'll show you what's the reason for any type of enhanced u.s. military presence in this area rush up. what is it suddenly about the south china sea that makes it so of added 11000000000 barrels of oil.

take a look at this map who really owns what kind of says no it belong. does india says no we claim that that belongs to us both of these countries have nuclear weapons capabilities there is reason for concern so that's why we're going to drill down on this story for you today right here on the news with rick sanchez where you know as we always like to say we do believe by golly it's time to do news again. seemed wrong. but oh well let's just. get to see. just the attic. and it. equals the trail. find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

welcoming our viewers from around the world live from central london this is r.t. u.k. . being here city of leicester could face a total lockdown by central government a major surge in the number of corona virus cases but the met has hit out at the lack of communication and question whether westminster has the power to do it i'll be joined by a local councillor. the statistics watchdog reveals that male care workers are twice as likely to die from the corona virus than the rest of the adult population i'll be talking to the founder of a care home charity. you might say that it's you have not been forgotten i have been forgotten i've been forgotten we will not

let you go on and i've been left behind from our so small business owners say the u.k. chancellor has remained on promises that the sector will not be forgotten during the make we hear from the campaign organizer. under u.k. jim bono considers taking legal action against the government after the fitness industry was barred from the july the 4th reopening i'll be asking him if it's safe and what chances of winning are. the u.k. government couldn't force a 2 week lockdown in the city of leicester after a surge in the number of coronavirus cases but the mare of leicester says he hasn't been shown the evidence to back it up dismissing the latest report as hastily couple together with more on this case to everest ashley joins me now on the shadier so the government might impose local lock downs and absolutely. unless the

could become the 1st part of the u.k. to end to this local knock down after resurgence in the area of the corona virus pandemic now it could mean that the west midlands city is staying in lockdown for another 2 weeks despite the fact that the rest of england will ease the lockdown measures and will reopen in more of a capacity of pubs bars restaurants and of course relax that social distancing measure over the 2 me to rule as well it comes as the city of recorded 866 deaths in the last 2 weeks up until june the 23rd which doesn't quite for 5 percent of the u.k. wide entire total in one area alone but as part of tactics to try and reduce the our number experts were drafted into the leicester city from experts from the medical and science profession to try and assess where these outbreaks are happening and where the flare ups are really taking place so 5 schools in the area have now closed off the opening in early june due to these outbreaks according to

reports there has been an outbreak at a supermarket in leicester as well as a large sandwich production factory but also their office at the virus is spreading through the city's large asian community particularly in situations where people are living in multigenerational households meanwhile though the mayor of leicester is incredibly angry and frustrated with the lack of conversation discussion with himself and his will for it is the central government he doesn't agree with this assessment at all and thinks they needed to be a much more transparency in terms of why the government is moving towards and heading in that direction they were to have a meeting this morning with the government but that has been completely postponed having said that the med did receive an email from central government around 1 o'clock this morning to suggest these recommendations of extending the lock down by another 2 weeks which was something that was not well received by the mayor. i'm

saying we need to be convinced that there is a case for doing that 1st of all that there is something special about the spread of the virus in leicester we've had no evidence to that and that if there was to remain restricted for longer than the rest of england that that would actually make a difference to something and they've made the case that there is something that needs to be done and given any explanation as to why this is the right thing to do the report that we've had from them rigidly acknowledges right at the outset that in fact the results are indeed higher in leicester but that's because they've been doing more testing in leicester. well there's potential like local lockdown as a result of the government's test and trace programming according to the government they say that this enables the government to quickly identify where these outbreaks and where these hot spots are and then move towards doing something to try and alleviate it so this is the idea behind us to potentially moving into this local

lock down it also does indicate where the government is at and where the government is headed in trying to handle local outbreaks across the u.k. and gives us an indication of what we might be expecting in the next few months especially considering the prime minister forest johnson came out today to say that the u.k. is not out of the words just yet. we are concerned about lester we're concerned about any local outbreak. and i want to stress to people that you know we are not out of the woods yet it's very important you know we're making these these cautious calibrated steps. only as much of hospitality as we can on on july the 4th they be as much of the economy as we can we need to have local lockdowns and local. whack a mole strategies where that's necessary it's worked in places like west in superman or where we've had outbreaks in g.p. surgeries in in london. and that's the same approach that will bring

to bear in in leicester as well now health secretary matt hancock as due to make an announcement within the next hour or so to try and explain to the house of commons where the government be headed when it comes to local knockdowns having said that when we look at the case of leicester it's certainly an decorative of what the u.k. can expect if we see any spikes in any areas in the next few months yes it will be interesting to see what happens in it thank you very much. well for more on this and on the prospect of a local lock down i'm now joined by liberal democrat councilor geoffrey kaufman so often thank you for joining us i mean do you agree with imposing local lock downs for instance if it were to save lives in leicester well obviously if it's going to socialize our group is it but i'm confused as confused as the previous week is. baffled as to what the government is trying to do is giving

a mixed message i do not know what they're proposing to do we are being told seem to be picking up from radio stations and television. i don't know whether it will work but it has to have been priority if it were work but our of this moment i'm not convinced anything is doing those started to lock down late . perhaps finish the national lock down too soon. so as conspiracists a preacher who has just no i don't know or governments are trying to do or to achieve but most often how do you think it could be enforced and on a really simple net have to think people could carry it well it's going to reinforce with great difficulty particularly when do you have convincing people but it isn't necessary to to cure when you have to choose policy maker number 10 mr

cummins floating up and down the country. assessing exam learn even the local city mayor popping off to his girlfriend rise in the middle of the near. term demick so consequently people are saying well it is good enough for these people work really do we need to lock down our produce example set by the government and local government those causes confusion and do politically probably responsible for this increase in their own in this disease or same people flocking to beaches over the past few weeks i see mass protests we see in social gatherings and yet we haven't had the spike in leicester which doesn't seem to save any of that well perhaps you're got to wait for the 2 weeks to see the form of the spike bryson's right from the serious side i don't know you probably have to wise a seed up but probably the big limo here is ken vogel of the u.k. and it's just spread out so as concentrated as people living in alaska do the local

lockdowns are preferable to a nationwide one. well i'm not quite sure how local lock downs will work are representin area which is about 3 miles from the city center i'm sure health and well being adobe which the bar council and the leisure county council are now harmlessly locked down is going to include grow to less. which is outside of the city boundary of which is a go to be consulting with less security council or constant working out oh. i don't know how people are going to commute and i don't know how you're going to keep if it's a lot of a few streets only going to barricade the people in but if it's so it would have to be a wide area the life can go they seem to be talking about at the moment and also how do you think it would affect businesses. it's going to be dreadful for businesses. we're trying to save lives the moment this is

a long president is certainly never happened in my lifetime that most people's lives times so our own sir is going to be business when is it better to arguably impose a lockdown for the couple of weeks than to risk a 2nd wave. absolutely spot on and as a low down do you think being eased too quickly nationally. yes but not only is it being used too quickly nationally the most use the government to giving out are now confusing people. who are not allowed to do under the law to meet your rules is not some reach out to all sins of the margin or what that means a look at who i've been speaking to or confusion misused those are coming up from government as well jeffrey kaufman thank you very much indeed for talking to us but closure. that those working in the u.k. as a social care system are far more likely to die from covert 19 than the rest of the

adult population that's according to a report by the office of national statistics which said the sect it was one of the most at risk the analysis found that men working in care homes or as home care as were 2 and a half times more likely to die from the virus compared to the average working male while the covert mortality rate for women working in the sector was twice that of other women. the government has been criticized for the lack of personal protective equipment provided to the care system and also for the decision to release elderly residents from hospital back into care homes in the early stages of the pandemic without having had covert 19 tests well the government claims this was entirely done on the medical evidence or meanwhile it's estimated that 410000 people are living in adult care in the u.k. in may health secretary matt hancock said the government had thrown a protective ring around the sector but data comparing care home deaths in europe puts the u.k. as the 2nd worst performing in protecting residents from the virus. well around

a 3rd of the u.k.'s known covert white houses have been in care homes accounting for over 5 percent of residents that's 13 times higher than in germany which recorded 3 and a half 1000 deaths despite having a care home population twice the size of the case where figures from neighboring island found that over 3 percent of care home residents have died from the disease while in belgium the figure is just below 5 percent and the worst performing is spain was known cobra deaths accounting for 6 point one percent of residents were defending its record the u.k.'s department of health said its efforts had resulted in the majority of care homes not experiencing an outbreak we have been doing everything we can to ensure care home residents and staff are protected during this unprecedented global pandemic every stage of our response has been guided by the latest scientific advice this includes offering whole care home testing and providing additional funding for local services which has resulted in almost 60

percent of our care homes not having an outbreak a tool. of the war on the crisis in the care said i'm joined by the founder of the charity compassion in care eileen thank you for joining us i mean you've done many reports on whistleblowers in the care sector this can't come as a surprise. go armed just at last i'm very sorry. if a seeable tragedy as such officio tragedy. is resulted now in the bodies being counted are you know these are people's lives and they were they had family and they had friends and the impact is enormous on these people and you know care home residents of always being 2nd class citizens in the eyes of the law and in the eyes of the government and we are talking about a privatized care sector here which isn't properly regulated at all and we have masses of evidence on this and i'm just so sorry that people who are now

become data that says them or not is it or if they're working in a care home because it should have happened it was the seeable and we had stopped crying because they were being asked to choose you know between risking their life and caring for people that needed help and they were going into people that had covert 19 with anything in fact if you walked into a sandwich making area in any in any bakery you would see them weigh every more protective equipment the stuff in care homes where i was going to i don't just say that to you what do you think are the main reasons behind this is p.p.a. one of them yes p.p. is one of them the other thing is we've been speaking out about this from day one and trying to give a voice to the stuff you've been contacting us and the sad fact is the government could have acted on this long ago they could have made you know he could have protected whistleblowers and lore and they chose not to and that's why we campaign for edness law because the only reason that this happens is because there is no one

to go to who will act i mean if you look at the amount of stars who phrase concerns with the c.q. say and then look at the amount if inspections have taken place you'll see a massive gap so you know the stuff know the risk they called for help and there was no nothing i told. and no one was listening at all and that is a massive tragedy and there needs to be a full investigation into this because if this was you know in the public sector there would be an inquiry and it would be taken more seriously as for matt hancock's protective ring. there's no evidence of that whatsoever it was a deliberate people at risk it wasn't you know you didn't have to have our high i.q. to realize that putting people cope at 19 into a care home with the most fun rubel people in society that you would end up with a tragedy if it's seeable try john i was going to say you would do that calling for

an inquiry on this but why do you think the government as you would argue is reluctant to do what you think that is because i think that we have our into this week to boast johnson and will lay in our order our concerns and all our evidence and that should be published this deal friday and believe me the questions we're going to put to him the prime minister will make him quite because you know nobody is screaming about this mass if human rights abuse and you know we should be all be screaming from the rooftops because to most of our own next year or the year after it could it could be ours and it could be the people we love and we need to we need to fight now and stand up and say this is wrong and it needs to stop i mean we want we want our answers one final question for my what would you like to happen going forward i know you're not in favor of the private sector involvement would state control be much better and you think very briefly i'm for a much better there's a clear line of accountability it has to be brought back into public ownership there's accountability this contro you put in. equipment you don't have to you know

subsidize the profit margins of these massive companies i mean chuck thank you very much indeed for yourselves. thank you. just come the sound. small business owners say the u.k. chancellor has broken promises to protect them during the covert 19 pandemic we hear from the campaign organizer. a british gym owner considers legal action against the government's ban on the reopening of the fitness industry i'll be joined by the man himself.

you cannot be vulgar with the yeah you like. is your media a reflection of reality. in a world transformed. what will make you feel safe from. isolation or community. are you going the right way or are you being led. by. what is true what is faith.

in the world corrupted you need to descend. to join us in the depths. for a mate in the shallowest. welcome back small business owners say the u.k. chancellor has when they don't promises that the sector will not be forgotten and join the coronavirus pandemic pretty soon not train that 95 percent of self employed people would be supported but the remaining 5 percent claim it's unfair that they've slipped through the gaps. to you i say this you have not been forgotten i have been forgotten i have been forgotten we will not let you behind

i've been left behind to fend for myself today things alone we all stand together together i am a small business owner together we have a fire point 8000000 people who have bought 3 car. or government bailouts have been paying 80 percent of employed and self employed workers on incomes of up to $2500.00 pounds a month 1st 3 months but there is has set themselves up as companies and take an income through dividends are not covered and are often unable to access government business grants dividends do attract a lower tax rate than wages but the founder of the forgotten campaign says it's not that simple initially i understood that there were some complications that meant that you know including limited company directors might be more complicated and they were looking for the fastest route from a need to be to provide support. but you know we're over 3 months in now and i think age must see could easily put something in place to support us realistically

though being treating us in the s e i s.s.n. to self employed incomes who's game but it's just really if there's political will to do that i guess what are the reasons that a business owner might take a dividend which is the sort of key point at issue here rather than pay themselves a salary. i think predominantly from the feedback of our thousands of members that respond to every day it's about agility it's about the ability to ensure that their staff are paid 1st and foremost above and beyond themselves because it's about him creation employment and protecting you know those are and seasonality on their income you know they don't have a flat income every month. goes up and down and therefore the activity of being able to pay yourself in line with your profits is. what the government says dividends on to included in the support package because it's not possible to prove

whether they're taken instead of wages or as a return on capital or part of an investment the rules also exclude those who have recently switched to full time self employment those who earn over $50000.00 pounds a year and those who make less than 50 percent of their earnings from self employment but there are many amongst our group who have received no support at all so it may be that they don't have commercial premises it may be that they're on a 3rd it may be that they run their payroll annually and you will p o y e that was the r.t.i. submission settled in the 19th of march so even if they have a significant salary or p a y e they were unable to claim anything on their part from joining because there are to your submissions off to the council for what's the worst case scenario the worst case situation a situation that you've heard of. in all honesty we've had suicides. we've had people crowd funding to feed their children we've had

insolvencies. i'm not speaking about my own business create i mean within a group of supporters. people have laid off large numbers of starving people intend to announce large numbers as there are impacts who are not the fellow i knew by this move business owners here it's the 2000000 in the 2 companies and the 7 and a half 1000000 people that they're employed and it's the supply chain of the people that they supply. u.k. exercise group jim box are considering taking legal action against the government after the fitness industry was left off the list of businesses allowed to reopen on july the 4th from the saturday at restaurants and head dresses in england will be allowed to reopen but indoor gyms along with night clubs and they all salans are still on the behavior to list the fitness industry already has strict cleaning protocols in place and many james have enough space for physical distancing but

last week the prime minister dismissed attempts to contrast the sectors that could open and those that couldn't. i'm acutely conscious the people will ask legitimate questions about why certain activities are allowed and others are not and i must ask the house to understand that the virus has no interest in these debates it's only in presence only a ambition is to exploit any opportunities to recapture ground that we might carelessly vacate. and to discuss this and i joined by the c.e.o. of g.m. but that's not diaper like thank you for joining us how are the legal talks going. so yeah i think there's 2 things that the legal side of things that the 1st thing for us is actually about reopening on saturday because we're looking at our legal position in terms of the activity we do root repercussions will be the 2nd side of

things is you know given the hospitality is opened before the fitness sector is whether or not there is a future claim against the government for loss of revenue given has been no evidence or no raising reasoning as to why are actually still going to be closed and i think that's really the key point when legal actions like that i guess is a bit drastic i mean they must be getting close to a reopening date altogether. you want to think so but my sits on you can activate in the trade body for the fitness and they still are brilliant job for us whole process but unfortunately they're just being fought off to get no arses and we should be let up the garden path actually because it was pretty much now on the full for joy was going to be the date for reopening route traps ready to go and then i think the announcement shocked everyone and i think they're given given there's no medical evidence to suggest gyms are unsafe you know you've given the public the impression of potential they are has been left pretty much to last and

there's a recent medical study carved out by university of oslo which is pretty much proven their own that there's no evidence that opium jims leads to the increased spread of crowd of ira so there's evidence out there or urging the government to do is go and look at the evidence to actually review it all give us an answer about why we're not opening i think that's the key thing here is lack of communication we are constantly overlooked as an industry because the only country you find billions in the economy you know ingrained in the grand scheme of things you know that 5000000000 tonnes fatality you know spellings with 100000000000 so it seems like it's very very political hit all of those fatalities employees off back into restaurants get the economy going again from that perspective and leave us to suffer and did well as you might have had before i mean the prime minister has refused to be drawn on why some sectors are not too open and others aren't but isn't it simply just about being extra careful about safety. well and if you think about it you know jim's we got measures in place that you know other countries

don't have so you know an example come to reception of of the hotel to check straightaway ok the hospitality sector isn't doing that most of them are doing math we don't have screens at reception have changed the face masks we have social distance in areas around the pla you know in pubs or restaurants it's a meter or you sat up sit on a table with somebody and after a few days we really think if you can associate distance i can't see it happening and they're also the other thing i've been hearing quite a bit is a bit of a myth around when you exercise your excel more and more pot will come out it's the same concept that come out when you are so nice we're going to have bars and restaurants you know the laughing in them and i spent see as a valid point so i really want to come around there's a reason and and or an open dates we can enter more because the nth of all we've missed before now left in limbo burning millions and millions and daily basis and it means that here you're looking at 10 prefix fitness classes actually in pubs which of course they are allowed to reopen that seems to be against the spirit of

they're also bending the rules that. possibly possibly but we took an outdoor space as well so i'm going to london tomorrow to meet a hotel who has a roof top area to put an outdoor gym into because our georgie gyms are allowed so i think you know we have to teach our business you know i thought you know this couple of things here one is employees and businesses you know 2 to 3000 fitness businesses will be our business by christmas a-k. you know 506070000 employees and out of work you know this isn't just about you know us kicking up a fuss this is this is about you know room risk set as well as health of the nation you know open in pubs and restaurants open at the same time it seems that we know issue i think if you're there in 4 popular restaurants nobody has said a word but the fact they've put the kind of economy before and these jobs in our sector just doesn't feel right one die thank you very much indeed for your thoughts

. i go about with more news in just over half and out see that. i am. the age.

when i was told something seemed wrong all right old boy just don't call. me old yet to shape out his name to add to it and in again training it was betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart. chance to look for common ground. the world is driven by shaped by one person those words.