demick has fundamentally changed humanity and what it means for the internet the police and the planet classes those living locked down from friends and family for the 1st time in months we ask the legendary german director about his new film family romance l.l.c. which explores the commodification of relationships all of them all coming up in today's going underground at 1st after a weekend that saw the united states a liberating independence day and the u.k. flooding the country's pubs you'd be forgiven for thinking life was getting back to normal after the coronavirus pandemic but with protests calling for the defunding of police still going on around the world will the only way to return to normal mean us having to embrace the surveillance state in fact will anything really be the same ever again joining me now from los angeles in the united states is the greatest film director of all time at least according to francois truffaut verna his new film family romance l.l.c. is streaming now on movie ivana thanks so much for coming on before i even get to the new field what culture of you've been enlightening yourself with during the

lockdown well i'm trying to be disciplined. i stay tell me and i think it's best attitude responsibly keep distance take face nests if you do have to mention indeed edits huge. starts to sucker meaning that iris has to be starved out the most expensive for attitudes. because straights strain the rejections more than actually texas. so you're better watch out to get. now many people maybe a different generations will know your acting as a as a star of the man the laurian but this new film family romance can you just explain why i might ask you whether there i am impersonating an interviewer interviewing you and how that how that is to do with the film it's

a deep question yes it could be you know might be an impersonator. digitally this possible to plough you into some digital interview with a likeness of you a real person so we read it we have to understand that representation of self even if you were yourself has changed with the digital age and in the way family romance. has as a subject this question of performative things or fake fake news of performative appearance of people where you're meant somebody most of the people actually know exactly what they are doing they rent a friend when they're in deep salvage the woods and they have a great afternoon with a friend they go out to the bar but sometimes. there might be a case

a change missing a father. gets a rented father and does know that the father they see and it so then it's then it's a deeper thing but of course make question is how much is your last performative. doing a conversation on the air you probably talk differently than to your own family we play roles and we are in the military service of n.p.r. with our children so we adapt different voices different attitudes is it a kind of sequel to. tokyo story. not really. mention a firm of been vendors there in that case it was a documentary and there was a participant but the smaller image making. images that wasted away that have degenerated. into dying out

in a keep saying that since long time if you do not create adequate images for the state of our civilization being might die abject dinosaurus because presumably people will say it charts a horrifying destruction of family life let alone family romance given that people are imitating father's hurting feelings and whilst always being alone. of course it points also to exist then she solitude said we increase because populations are aging in all industrialized societies we have age and populations but it's not only aging populations it's also the internet itself that experiment toxically pretends to connect

us yes we are connected we are not isolated solitude scrim. did a showman the internet lo and behold reveries of the connected world indian web sequence actually didn't include it in the film places teenager who 15 years old who does 2 sounds and 200 texting a day constantly texting it's totally amazing and i have never seen solitude s.t.p. stet because all these 2200 trains and trace work she has never met in low and behold i think it's evil musk that. appears at one moment presumably you were joking when you said you wanted to go to mars on a one way trip no it actually i'm old enough to do it now i could do that now i'm just curious it points to a very very deep curiosity of course and orient it very well are you teach what

stains us and i'm always depicted as adept at the lint jeopardizing my life in jeopardy if the life of everyone else is proof you said i'm very good in the assessment of risks and proof that i'm a prudent is set in i don't know send yourself feel not a single act of ethical turret but let's face it i do believe that his dream. to colonize mars is something we shouldn't do i think it's a mistake we should rather take care of our planet shia and not make a planet out there hospital which doesn't really well chemists at all it's 10000 times easier to colonize the bottom of the oceans for example than colonizing mars yes send out a few robots and maybe

a few extra minutes for scientific research and get them back but do not go like the locusts. graze our planet and then move on to the next in family romance when characters do become conscious that they may be hurting people conscious of their impersonator and conscious of the illusion they seem to think the only way out is a fake death. yes that that is some sort of undercurrent in the film however the film shows and reality shows that the clients who rent persons to overcome desailly to replace a family member appearing awaiting less they enjoy what they are doing of course some people thought that corona virus could bring society back together again rebuild it stop it being atomized do you think do you think it has helped bring

society back together again very hard to make an assessment of the crack society but i know for example. family values become all of us and more important we look out who is really close to me who is really important so we go for the essential snow who are the real friends and in. case in the increase in a context with family and i increase my contacts which may be very best friends all the rest becomes an important electoral votes and work on things that are essential is essential if we're if one is lucky to have them of course i mean you're in los angeles you know coronaviruses hit the working class is right around the world disproportionately worse and in fact class seems to have. become an issue in l.a.

because of its intersection with the race what have you made of what's been happening in l.a. recently yeah of course racial disparities become very evident in there we have seen it before agreeing when you look at the prison population not only in california but the united states criminal justice is heavily based and i do believe that the soul movement. can being noticed complaining their rights and being supported in having their rights is something completely necessary and over to you and i as a filmmaker and member of the academy. just yesterday received a new nearly accepted member. and it's remarkably 50 percent almost 50 percent now of new arrivals into their. women

a huge amount of african americans a huge amount of them. was from. from other cultures like latinos and other cultures and of course also a lot of foreignness foreign filmmaker thank you not trying to get an oscar that by celebrating them because of course still people of color disproportionately targeted there what have you made of especially since you made that film about death row there being court decisions now allowing the resumption of executions in the united states well it's. something that is in the acceptable for me. and. i think it is. it is something which points to something barbaric. but it's the last thing i can tell the american people may be pissed opinions because i only can tell

them i am against capital punishment. because as a german i can not tell the american people cheney's people pakistanis how to deal with capital punishment and prison war it asked me he said very urban why i got an activist against capital punishment i said no but i fundamentally against capital punishment tell me why what's your reason and i said i do not have an argument and do not have a philosophical argument however i have a star i come from a country that executed takings of thousands of people because. it's the reason against the barbaric regime of hitler even telling a joke on hitler could cost you live your life in addition to the 10s of thousands

of people executed because of a severely retarded or insane they were not worthy to live cert in addition to that genocide an industrialized genocide of 6000000 jewish people end of story. if we really understand it's needed it started argument it's a story went out to a golf stop you there more from the legendary filmmaker after this break. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guest on the world of politics sports business i'm showbusiness i'll see that. that's geysers financial advice they say money the balance. as it is it has

a central bank support diadem is going to call them right now say stop the. welcome back i'm still here with one of the greatest filmmakers of all time to talk it's actually 75 years since the end of world war 2 if you've been watching i know you watch going underground but i thought he was covering the russian involvement in the 2nd world war surprise that certainly here in britain it was churchill who almost singlehandedly won world war 2 and and here in the united states is american g.i.'s were the war but of course. we are completely and utterly aware that. russia and lost 25000000 people when we need the war and i know that russian troops. well the ones who

liberated consideration camps actually this. incredible sacrifices. on the side of russia and i do believe. it. it's ignore it because of crisis of political interests it's very much a question not what are the facts maybe 600 ourselves 1000 american soldiers lost their lives in the 2nd world war 2526000000 russians those are facts that cannot be ignored and today it's not that important what really happened it's worth dressin who owns the narrative who owns the narrative and occupying the narrative has created some sort of dockside it. he's in looks at it

the information that we see every day i don't believe that the demonisation of russia is a very very big mistake they think statues a part of a narrative i know that they're tearing their statues there they are attacks my understanding of history. is different i think we should be aware that we are historically formed and we are formed by mistakes and we are formed by by what the past is history that's an extreme history it doesn't function by erasing the chronic use history doesn't function by talking money immense but users if you don't treat it very good you support the toppling of the statues of hitler and your country of europe. yes but but it's i think of course internet spouse because insignia and all is fine yes however in favor of very much the

publication of hitler as man come for his. his writings to date we have a new edition of it in germany just banned for a long time now days a new edition but you only can buy it with very faint and notations historians who point out what. the consequences of this statement of hitler what was a consequence of this there took their paragraph in the book so it notated of course another element of the black lives matter protests has been the call to defund the police has been criticized here in britain what have you made of it especially since your great film left hand and bad left hadn't you painted a very grim picture of your justice system that. well it's a movie style it's a shame it doesn't have to to do much with police addressed to do with some sort of

prince george of movies and sharia parodic matic characters and all that but i must say my experience with police here in los angeles has been very pleasant been going to believe that only a very very small fraction of american police is rotten and acts in a way that shouldn't it shouldn't be it needs to be reformed that's obvious x. no doubt defunding it completely into replacing them with boy scouts or beach along tees it would be stupid it doesn't function like that but of course the united states as we say on this program of turning in prisons per capita more than stalin or mao. yes i see all of this and i notice all this not in the business of america bashing america has been very good to me and i see this as

somebody who is a guest here in the country and i see of course all the deficits and i try to do my best and try to. speak out whenever there's an occasion to point out things that are overlooked i know that in the past you have said how los angeles is an amazing place because of the cultural power it exerts right around the world is it losing any of that today or is it still there. i think it is still there because the things of great importance of great significance normally originate in in california and i mean the computer says internet started here in los angeles by the way the collective dreams of the world in cinema hollywood which is not my cup of tea but we have to remark important things also the silly things like aerobic studios and yoga is for 5 year olds

and so all the silly thing spec they have repercussions around the world they normally originate from here it very few other things come from other cultures muslim fundamentalism is not code for me i'm born and it comes from yemen and egypt and pakistan and saudi arabia they're obviously weapons companies in california that affect those other countries from where the is them is i'm comes from i suppose i mean do you notice any more a greater progressiveness in california regardless of trump happening in california right now a resurgent like max and i think that is yes despite of trump california storing ignoring much of what's coming from the central government and its inoperative and its bold for example electric cars tesla car as they come from coming for india

the rockets to mute separation of probably this week on advertising on mask throughout this interview. i mean i also you mentioned the academy they gave the top oscar to a crazy marxist film parasite by. ho is that tastes changing and becoming. well or like more like your tastes as a. as to the hollywood blockbusters that i know you don't like. well the academy here has stunned astonishing seeing sint among others the korean film parasite winning it. and its internationalizing of course. academy in tollywood is in a way opening to films from other cultures that desperately trying to open to china desperately trying to open to to india to india but it's because of the size of the

markets too early though for any amount of patient of indigenous peoples you've always made indigenous peoples a feature of your films they've actually been hit by coronavirus disproportionately yes. that's catastrophic in u.c.d. in brazil for example. and. yeah of crisis it has has been very much from my mind and it strains my wife who actually was pouring in the urals in the contrary and. for us in our region she has done an oratorio called last mistress composed of languages that are already extinct and languages that are critically endangered where there's only one or 2 or 3 speakers left and of course i have paid attention now if very 10 days we're losing

a hold spent with what happens if we lose less you know we're told story no merkel calling no no not to no one to. know which i cough skeet and it's catastrophic how indigenous people are wiped out and how their cultures are disappearing and now because of the corona virus they are one of the most endangered. groups that we have out there and of course this in the context of deforestation which has been linked to coronavirus you often talk about your gym anika arijit is there a chance that we are living through a via my germany type period as as you then just talked about extinction of entire societies of languages of while while we all watch celebrities on television. it's not easy to connect to the right to the confusions of the right my era and

the repercussions in the results from all these very stable times but. yes i think previous shaking to a deeper core of a normally. because it does affects every person's. lifestyle in a way looking much more into late middle ages the big plague trines. and how it happened they are for exemplary rev'd. that danielle to fellows journal of a plague of the plague in london. in the 1600s it's an incredible how he describes that a. week trial destroying outside of parliament in london with no other racism in the photo it did actually do well in the bestsellers just as

coronavirus was having but i'm going to ask because i mean we cover it here yemen the world's worst humanitarian crisis the wars haven't stopped despite the u.n. secretary general asking for it during coronavirus why do you think the media is at fault in covering conflict you said in lessons in darkness about the fires in kuwait i had the feeling that this looked really awful and it was just a media way to deal with it and i felt i should do it much better what what is it that can be brought to the subject visually and experientially that the media just isn't well. at the time and made the film about the failures of kuwait it was in the news in 10 seconds snippets in little clips every every evening but i thought there was something much bigger big show had to be done because it's not only a put it a political component in there the bad guys of saddam hussein started to

fire since and i thought it was speaker it was a crime and not only a political crime it was a train against creation itself against the meaning of creation in a major firmware in a way firmed it was imagery where you cannot recognize our planet anymore every single image is as if it were shot on a catastrophic different planet somewhere out in the universe and yet we know it's our planet try to to do a deeper approach that. back to what you're saying about yemen the situation in yemen this is highly highly highly complicated and complex it's not just simply a proxy war between east and west in saudi arabia and you're just name it it's very very complex and i'm not

a pundit but i see what is happening and i do see what is happening and and i think it is catastrophic it is catastrophic him it has to be merely approached all vices a stand on what interests what the interests of the others what other interests of saudi arabia what are the interests of the western community what are their interests on the ground on the ground it's a catastrophe and it cannot stay like that now as we face all the implications of. films you've made arguably your new film after family romance and see which is opening up here i understand is it about extra terrestrial threat to this world even though as we often cover here it's threatened arguably right corporations by military contractors and so on tell me about what fascinates you about meat is well there fireballs coming at us and they had

a lot of repercussions in culture like for example in history for example the blackstone at the southeastern corner of the car. is with all probability a meteorite it least a millennium before the prophet mohammed introduced islam big events that have. hit us a mistress into a big event she should look in the york atomic peninsula a crater 200 kilometers across 65000000 years ago that wiped out the dinosaurs and almost all life on the planet and it had we have to we have to be aware of 10 minutes he of hundreds of millions of hiroshima bombs maybe even thousands of millions of. amount of energy hiroshima bomb packed and these things can happen again of course when i talk thank

you. thank you that's it for the show family momento fees available to stream now on movie will be back on wednesday when the minneapolis city traffic commission needs to decide on future possible evolution of its george boyd killing police force until then push your hands and join the underground the following us on you tube twitter facebook instagram is a. rush if you will it never really done this hoax has a life of its own also the foreign policy one mobilizes around 0 ito. so we were. going to memphis the founder knew more from

nothing you. remember the just can stuff it up with a dick i didn't hear that oh. i'm talking about is a very international community. meeting yesterday the trick is you don't have to. do this if it is this stuff that i need to do. there's a push for them at the works to restrain the growth of brazil so their nuclear cooperation in antarctica is everything produced polluted with it if one comes to do with the above 30. 5 they have i would have acted all day but i decided not to take this life. with my god and tell you that.

welcoming our viewers from around the world live from central london this is on to u.k. . the metropolitan police are refusing unfairly using stop and search powers on young black men in london that says 2 top black athletes are removed from their car and accuse the police of racial profiling and acting violently i'll be talking to a former police superintendent. the u.k. government faces calls to deliver an early pay rise for health workers as the country marks the 72nd birthday of the national health service we hear from the community doctor. the delayed inquiry into the ground felt our fire resumes but social distancing means bereaved families and survivors working to be able to

attend. peer k. is reportedly set to walk away from its 5 g. deal with fall way in a major huge turnoff to britain's top cyber intelligence agency declares it unsafe we talked to a previously activist. on the u.k. prepares to an outside actions independent of the un or e.u. for the 1st time as part of its post bricks it regime. police are being accused of disproportionately using stop and search cars on young black men in the london borough of camden since the start of the corona virus pandemic since march the number of people being stopped by police a surge by 70 percent police also carried out just under $4000.00 searches and all of these only 4 resulted in a rest over the past year nearly 40 percent of searches were carried out on black

people despite just under 10 percent of the population being from that demographic in camden when it comes as the u.k.'s police watchdog investigates a case of a stop and search where police smoked. the car window of a man after they run from the accused him of drug possession ironically the man in question was driving home from a t.v. ad to be he'd just given about his experience with institutionalized racism specific specific about big stopped for searches where his footage of the incident fell by the man himself but to make sure no one caught hollywood. on earth night. after coming from a channel 4 into the specifically talking about getting stopped by the police live where it happened about late on an interview when i start just to check my phone or situations and would just leave held up the traffic just to stop me.

and implied i was putting things in my waistband just as i saw them clearly there wasn't any really there there was there was no drugs this never ever been drugs in my life never had distributed at stake in any illegal substances in my life the video footage is clear from under windows smashed my hands were up i did not resist any claim and yes something that. does go through my head a lot of. evil as the police feared was now. yes quite dramatically very good. well in response a police spokesperson claimed the man had been detained after failing to comply with directions from office as a commander of the police force in question asked for the public to report any similar cases this incident comes a year since police in england and wales were given powers to randomly search people in order to fight knife crime. or critics have always said the policy created more opportunities for racial profiling according to anti search activists

black people and 9 times more likely to be stopped compared with white people they also claimed the changes made it more difficult to hold officers accountable ryan clark 0 believes the criticism is justified but actually my no 2 the more likely to be targeted by police forces in the case. then anyone aids or native heritage something i've experienced personally i've experienced it with the way that they speak to me sometimes and i know a lot of people give me similar stories that resonate with it is a reason why everyone's complaining about this because you guys see that not everyone carries an eye and not everyone carries a school weapon and the reasonably about this is more subtle manner that they're treated well but in the. yeah i think this is not. the time to put black and minorities very much just that. meanwhile a top british outfit claims the metropolitan police racially profiled her and her

partner after they were stopped to remove from their car in london police say the vehicle had been on the wrong side of the road and the driver sped off when asked to stop. while sprinter bianca williams and portuguese athlete ricardo dos santos were in the car with their 3 month old son when the incident occurred their coach olympic champion linford christie posted the footage on twitter and accuse the police of institutional racism met say they looked into the footage and don't believe the officers behaved inappropriately. well i'm now joined by former superintendent in london's metropolitan police the royal logan levi thank you for joining us do you think the police have acted appropriately in this case and all the details behind it leading up to the encounter even though i'm aware that there was some form of pursuit which could of raise the tension and risk in the officers eyes which led to quite heavy handed. impact with or

encounter rather with the occupants of the car even though there was a baby in that car so you know it is something that's not. seemed to be appropriate at the time but of course you've got to be aware of what risk levels the officers were considering looking at the figures from the barrack and of those as we were hearing earlier it seems that black people are disproportionately targeted by the police well yeah i mean that has been the case for years since i gave evidence at the macpherson inquiry in 1988 you know stop and search a major issue a real are really is the bar command of camden is a secret for so among large groups so you know i know him personally and almost certainly he would want to be dealing with that directly but you know you can't do

it you can't be everywhere a lot of it is down to the supervision and leadership on the ground you know with the sergeants and inspectors holding their offices to account and also these officers that come on to the bar are known as the territory support group they are individuals who have to be managed as well so when they're stopping people we treat people with respect and dignity and making sure stock is intelligence based do you think stop and search is an effective method in reducing crime. someone surge is an effective tool but it's a blunt tool nonetheless but the sharpened up with community intelligence and the more trust and confidence the police have the more intelligence the intelligence they will gain from the community so that's the thing you know treating people respect and dignity is important to foster good relations and trust so you get more information from the community unfortunately these episodes you know footage on on

the phone or you tube or wherever are going to erode that trust and confidence especially young people who are seeing this on a daily basis and you know there's nothing to offset that so there needs to be really strong leadership to ensure that if there are rogue offices acting inappropriately they are supervised and if they won't deal with things properly then they sanctioned well there are better ways to prevent crime i mean education for example absolutely you know. you can't arrest you when the problem you can stop and search well probably reducing crime and violence and other matters a lot of it is through education i've been running a youth leadership program since 2001 it's called voyage youth and we know that education is the key and not only the young people and their rights responsibilities but give other positive peer to peer mentor and i think that we need to get to those early intervention prevention programs to ensure that our

young people are not easily groomed and brainwashed into a negative cycle of adversarial behavior and being disrespectful to themselves and not to say to authority figures they were like i thank you very much indeed for talking to us. well. now the u.k. could face thousands of excess deaths within a year due to delays in cancer diagnoses and treatment because of coronavirus new research suggests $35000.00 lives could be lost by this time next year as a result of urgent referrals routine screenings and treatments being delayed by the pandemic the number is almost twice as high as previously suggested by researchers n.h.s. england said the service had to strike a balance between the virus outbreak and cancer treatments what we were concerned to do when the virus was increasing very rapidly in the population was to make sure that we could get the right balance between the risk of catching the virus and the risk of having people's cancer get worse and in particular the risks and benefits

of things like chemotherapy where if chemotherapy isn't absolutely critical that it might be dangerous in terms of increasing your risk of coronavirus this wasn't a kind of attempts to police who should have treatment and who shouldn't it was more an attempt to try and help people think they're a clearly. well that says u.k. health care unions have sent a letter to the government asking for an early pay rise for health workers as the country marks the 72nd birthday of the national health service but 14 unions have written to the prime minister and the chancellor asking them to appreciate the effort made by n.h.s. staff during the pandemic the letter says the government should introduce a pay rise before the end of the year to make staff feel valued it also says such a move would help boost the economy as health workers would have extra money to spend in the shops. we are incredibly proud of all our health care staff and recognize their extraordinary commitment working day and night putting our care and

safety at the center of everything they do more than 1000000 n.h.s. workers continue to benefit from the 3 year agenda for change pay deal under which the starting pay for a newly qualified nurse has increased by over 12 percent since 2017 to 2018 the independent n.h.s. pay review body makes recommendations to government on pay increases and we will consider their advice when we receive it. or to discuss this an article by committee dr anna having atlanta thank you for joining us as a g.p. and local doctor do you feel valued and appreciated i think a lot has changed over this. strange period in the fact that it's waken people up into what we do as doctors and health care professionals in the community and in hospital and i think that there is more appreciation now the n.h.s. service remains the same the ways been there for everybody it's been a point access that everyone can receive care and it's lovely now that people

really do appreciate that we were around the clock to help people and save their lives or what a higher salary though be enough or are there other problems which contribute to staff not feeling valued. but i think the salary does pay quite an impact certainly in. bringing people into professions we've all got to make sure that we can make ends meet and certainly when i became a joke doctor over 20 years ago the salary was quite different and i remember looking at how my salary went down by about $0.25 is pay duels with doc has it changed and $70.00 the european time directive that came in in 2004 had a massive impact on doctors' salaries now i'm sure the same has happened to other health care professionals as well and the big impacts there is watched other professions exceed and accelerates in their in their salaries and what they can

actually achieve in buying a home for example and as a london doctor that actually makes a really big impact so i do think for professionals and wanting to encourage bright young students into university places to study medicine to study nursing that knowing that they're be able to go for a quality of life that is in balance with the other professions that they're thinking about may be law or finance running businesses is actually quite important therefore what sort of pay rise would you like to say. well that's a very difficult question because it totally depends on a the job that you have but also the number of hours that you provide care for and i think that the unions are working really closely to be able to balance this out but i think that they really need to pay attention to the fact that certainly

university students are leaving the profession in dros because their expectations aren't being met well the government says it recognizes the extraordinary commitment of n.h.s. health and care staff but budget or restraints are there as well aren't they i mean higher pay can't be given automatically at these times well you're absolutely correct in the fact that the n.h.s. is the biggest business in the u.k. so you know any salary increase has an effect across the board however it's definitely something that the government should be thinking about in order to encourage people to stay within the question and having thank you very much indeed for joining us. now after months of delays the inquiry has resumed into the ground fire which killed $72.00 people in 2017 is social distancing rules mean that brief families and survivors won't be able to attend a lot u.k. shot everest actually joins me now with more. hi there shall be so bereaved families can't attend that schools in considerable distress isn't it. absolutely

and it's been a long time coming for this public inquiry into the ground to resume and now it's of the builders that were behind the blocks refurbishments to face the full screeching enough will survive this power face increasing amount of frustration over the years due to the length of time that this procedure has been going on for process cause the grueling delays to the inquiry in general but now due to the covert 19 demick there's another barrier on the course of justice and that is of course social distancing it means that survivors and members of the group community will not be able to be physically present to attend these hearings in fact the doors are only open for the inquiry panel witnesses lawyers even those cross-examining the inquiry council everybody else will have to simply watch and stream it online now some people really did prefer to wait until social distancing was completely lifted so that they could all be there in a physical capacity but according to a survey majority of the $600.00 participants actually wanted just to get the

procedure back up and running as soon as possible but of course this now means that phase 2 does commence. does resume as of today but phase one it was the phase that looked into what happened on the night of the blaze phase 2 looks at why it happened so it's companies that will be at the heart of scrutiny at the moment those who are behind the refurbishments between the years of 2014 and 2016 including the cutting installation the so today 1st stop with a cross examination is a company called acts of fire engineers that were actually accused of downplaying the noncompliance of the coding system next 3. well look at right and that's the contract is that actually selected the cogging condos and the grunfeld tower by the way though phase one actually concluded and determined it was the cladding was the principal reason for the spread of the flames on the night of the place plus it also concluded and determined that it did not comply with building regulations south of the birds of a state of the ground fellow inquiry is that when we look here this year in

february the attorney general at the time actually granted immunity to these companies meaning anything that they say during face to any evidence they provide cannot be used against them in any criminal charges and capacity but that doesn't mean that separate prosecutions can actually happen having said that many would argue that it doesn't mean that they'll be any closer to justice they also all the really that these companies might in general be left off the hook all the issues they would face too is that it's already sitting for 4 days it will take a break during august that means that any reports conclusion would only happen and next year meaning any potential charges would only happen in 2022 at that point that's 5 years on since the 9th of the place that claimed the lives of $72.00 so for today it feels like the survivors and the members of the prius community they're not really any closer to justice trying to ever study in west london thank you very much indeed. still to come this hour. you can't government reportedly plans to end its use of fall wait by technology just months after

a deal was struck we speak to a previously activist. and the u.k. potentially shoots 1st function's regime independent international body some. one else seems wrong why don't we just don't call. me. yet to see. this do. and in the game equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. join me every thursday on the all excitement and i'll be speaking to guests of the

world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then. the world is driven by dreamers shaped by one person or those. dares thinks. week here to ask.

welcome back the u.k. is to impose sanctions independently from the un the e.u. for the 1st time as part of its post that regime foreign secretary dominic robb will shortly where lease a list of individuals subject to the blacklist which they say targets the worst human rights violators but some say it may have a negative impact on relations among some of the lies with questionable records from all of this and i'm joined by author you case the. other recess so tell us what's all this about. well we've seen this measure being undertaken by dominic robb which is the releasing of a list of people to be sanctions human rights violations in different countries around the while we don't yet know whether the release list will be released publicly but this is really the 1st test by the governments of their ability to impose these types of sanctions on individuals opposed reg's it because up till now

of course with the u.k. being part of the e.u. any measures that the u.k. have taken has gone through. in situations now what type of measures could we see that we could see those people 'd into k. to in these lists being prevented from entering the u.k. and being prevented from putting them money through u.k. financial institutions u.k. banks and also having the assets frozen within the united kingdom of course there are many people who consider the u.k. a safe haven for their wealth doesn't it rob to twitter to say that this would be targeting the west human rights abuses people who are of course perhaps in paket in religious persecution attacks and journalists but also could be expanded to lead to people who are involved in corruption now his opposite number the shadow foreign secretary of the labor party at least 90 says that the little must be effective in

cook ating and pap pushing through all of these measures not interesting really some of the individuals from countries that can't be considered. allies for the united kingdom in particular some saudi arabians who've been implicated in the death of. the saudi arabian journalist who was killed in the south because of that and. now ready 5 people have been sentenced to death within saudi arabia there are 20 more currently on trial would attack itself but it's not look at that list. that the u.k. outlining involves includes the kraut trains mohammed bin solomon who many of held responsible for ultimately giving the orders for mr jope g.'s. now there are fears within the foreign office that this type of measure particularly with the focus on allies like saudi arabia could lead to tensions between the 2 sides who have historically enjoyed very strong strategic relationships there of course partners

during 'd the war on yemen and as a huge on trade between the 2 countries with billions the souther if it is that those sectors could be impacted somehow also included russians who the government say are linked to corruption and even leads to the death of the russian lawyer sec'y magnitsky now the magnitsky act which is a similar type of lore legislation in the u.s. was named after the died in russia after being arrested for corruption now he was accused of tax fraud he was a client he was a lawyer on behalf of bill browder a businessman who himself was convicted in absentia for a tax for totaling almost 80000000 dollars and since misson ignace the death broad has been campaigning for people in russia to be subject to these types of financial

controls and financial measures now another issue is of course to do with china in hong kong there are tensions between the u.k. over the question of hong kong with china but interestingly in this case it isn't full of other any chinese individuals who have been named in that list is there any thank you very much indeed. that prime minister boris johnson is reportedly drawing up plans to end the use of huawei technology in the u.k. 5 g. network this comes just months after striking a deal with the chinese technology giant the u.k. government cyber intelligence agency is reportedly set to present a report to the prime minister this week it said the documents claim the risk posed by the tech giant would be possible to manage in light of u.s. sanctions these were announced in may and banned hallway and supplies from using american technology and software the u.k. government's communications headquarters has reportedly said the impact on the firm will be severe u.k. officials are allegedly already looking into ways to phase out the use of holway equipment when it comes to chinese officials warn that britain will have to bear

the consequences if it treats china as a hostile country on monday the chinese ambassador to britain said that a ban on qua way would damage china's trust in the u.k. or ministers are set to deliver an update on qual way by the end of july or to discuss the latest development in more detail and i'm joined by privacy activist and technology expert build new bill thanks for joining us what's the difference between the risk posed by hallway now versus 6 months ago is this an overreaction. well we're in a very difficult position here because the u.k. is stuck between 2 very large powers we have on one side the chinese who we desperately need a trade agreement with postbox it but who have questionable treatment of some of the minorities and haven't necessarily been here to international treaties that we've seen in all got on the other side we've got another power america who desperately need a trading relationship but it's bret's it who've also had questionable treatment of

some of them and origins of we've seen with black lives matter and have not adhere to international treaties as we've seen with the trumpet ministrations of the the u.k. so very difficult position position stuck between the 2 in terms of what has changed in the last few months the initial says assessment was based on a very detailed an in-depth assessment of the hallway technology where they found no back door was a toll but they did find a few engineering flaws in the chinese of promise to invest something like 2000000000 in trying to fix their software engineering to improve this but all technology companies have flaws and they're forever patching their systems the any real change that we have is the escalation of the american sanctions which means that the us chips are now not no longer available to the chinese and therefore if the chinese source their chips elsewhere from a lesser known supplier we're going to be less confident in the security those chips it's not nothing that chua way of done will done intentionally they've been

forced into a position by the u.s. sanctions which has put them in the at a position where we can't actually be quite as assured that their security well since the government struck at huawei delphi t. equipment and technology has been installed in how canonical can be by removing it all now. i think it's a potentially disastrous decision it's going to cost companies like vodafone an enormous amount of money to strip out equipment they've already cult but you need to remember the quote had been operating in the u.k. for something like 20 years there is an enormous amount of hallway equipment already in use even if you don't think of the latest generation 5 g. equipment and the full stripping all of that would be a massive setback of. aim to be a leader in vijay but also there be a massive cost on on top of that if there is the cost of quad weight which would be abysmal in the chinese might react very negatively to this at the same time you

need to think to yourself what would the americans do if we or anyone else imposed the level of assigned should and a disruption on one of that technology players without any proof of black holes or anything and this is somewhat hypocritical by the us but given the fact that the us of been using dive doors to snoop on everyone else using technology as was found with a swiss company called crypto i g. which was used by over 120 companies and was secretly owned by the cia and with legislation being put before the congress in the us to actually mandate but also that the americans can snoop on anyone else they're not talking about getting these encroaching queues to the un so that they can be managed on a global basis they will the case for themselves and they don't want the chinese to have any battles themselves that probably have to name it that they'll be thank you very much more news at the top of the hour.

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