before an indictment is not uncommon when charges are 1st lodged if those aren't leaked to the media for them to try to strike a deal with somebody before or to strike a deal with somebody and i think in this case we might be able to deal that was already previously struck with her and the indictment being proof of the u.s. holding up their end of the bargain where you did just how the program in one. day what it is it is your feeling is it your feeling. that there were negotiations behind the scenes going on over the last year because my it seems to me logical and it is something with your gut feeling oh my god feeling is that there absolutely were and i think you know we're not used to this in america a leak free investigation we're really not used to our so our agency is now not having any leaks but apparently this was a leak free situation i think it was for many reasons one this is a woman who has multiple identities multiple names passports connections all over the world she could have easily escape certainly we saw headlines about different

countries and states that she was then to think that she's right now back on the new hampshire a lot of this doesn't make any sense i do think that there was a background deal especially after what happened with jeffrey himself they're not going to want anything to leak out or anything to be known about this so with all the people that are worried about what happened to her now i think the government has already got much of what they wanted from her and terms of striking a deal you know. looking at the specific charges it seems to me. feel confident that they have enough that will stick maybe we'll get that conviction on some. kind of a. kind of pivoting away from so many other questions of so many of us have. because there are a lot of multiple multiple personalities very well known very very well but by focusing very specifically on these charges it might not shit light on those issues and maybe just a few. waiting here that may be part of the process here that both sides agreed to

go ahead hour maybe i mean i think we are seeing a shift towards prince andrew to be honest i think there's a lot of talk now about presenter and his relationship with chill a and there's a lot of talk about that and we are seeing hints coming out of the u.k. and coming out of the media in the u.k. that joe lane probably did have some sort of agreement in place and she has a clean already formulated and we see that a lot of that's being leaked from her friends from one of her friend a confidant who said that she spoke with joe lane about a month ago laura goldman spoke with elaine said to lane will not turn over evidence or turn over any information on prince andrew because she values their relationship but but she did say that still ain't did feel about a month ago that the road was coming to an end and the walls were closing i believe the direct quote is that she felt that the road was coming to a close so obviously we know for at least a month the better part of

a month maybe 2 that there were that there was some kind of negotiation some kind of wheeling and dealing that was taking place in the background in order to work to come to where we are today if it jennifer i mean i just can't hope to get the feeling that the prosecution just wants to get a conviction i mean it's almost kind of like to wash their hands of the whole thing you know what i mean is it when the more we delved into this isn't the case that it seemed on the list so the sitting sex from a minor i mean it's a beginning of the 1st decade of this century here i mean there's there's a cost of this involved in here there's a lot of murkiness of it at d.o.j. and i just can't help but feel that you know the new changes once you get one conviction to be done with it because there's so many hands of worms that i think obviously a lot of people don't want to delve into but at the same time they've made they've made a promise that they will come against this some kind of conclusion here go ahead

john. it's a good point and it's a good question to be asking but there are a couple things in this case that i think actually it goes far beyond max well i think that the 1st thing is to see the department within the southern district of new york the prosecutors within the d.o.j. that are actually working on this case is the public corruption unit and it's not the criminal unit sex trafficking human trafficking in anything like that it's the public corruption you know which means that this case goes far beyond even ms maxwell or abstain and into a witch public officials that there are and there are at least one public official that is involved that could include british royalty that could include any kind of government official or how this was involved so it is one point the 2nd are conspiracy charges it's very very interesting that the d.o.j. have made these conspiracy charges because federal conspiracy statutes state that anybody you don't even have to know the extent of the crimes themselves as long as

there is a plan some sort of alleged plan and an overt act taken and further inside that plan it doesn't matter what the overt act is whether you flew a plane or. something are set up a modeling thing or something else then you can be charged with part of that same exact conspiracy so the conspiracy charge itself opens it up to multiple other people i do not think this will stop at her it had stopped with her and it would have been a much more clear and distinct charge rather than conspiracy conspiracy leaves it open for the government to be able to put in new people a new evidence and you coconspirators well i mean oh it sounds like from what we just heard from jennifer there's potentially huge drag i mean a lot of people get caught up into this but we have to remember that maxwells going to have her day in court and she's going to have her what she wants to get out in the in the public realm and her own defense here i think all of us following this

very strange story. i have to assume i think correctly that she knows the names and dates and places and you know it considering you know the netflix. series that i'd be one was watching it a lot of names have been dropped there ok and gives everyone jennifer just said when it comes the conspiracy here this is potentially really huge but why do i still get this really terrible feeling they don't want to keep it very very narrow that means they're working colluding with. the defense or the maxwell herself i mean it seems to me everybody will want to keep is narrow well i mean i hope that we get to hear from maxwell i think that's the fear that everyone has everybody germany get ahead of me on this i need to get caught about that to keep it up it's like well i mean you said it peter that the question that everyone has is are we going to hear from maxwell because we didn't hear from epstein that's for

sure and that's left a big question mark hanging over everyone's head about what's going on here with no one really even knows what happened to epstein we don't even know who this guy really was you match the net if netflix documentary yeah makes a lot of assumptions and a lot of speculations but we still don't really know who this guy was where he got his money what he was doing was he working for someone else was he working on his own was he part of a government intelligence agency was backs while working for him or was he working for maxwell even maxwell has a very color colorful and checkered past as well her family is definitely an interesting thing to take a look at her father in particular so i mean i think your fear is everyone's fear that's what makes this story so fascinating is it's taking so many different twists and turns god i hope we hear from maxwell but are we going to i don't know no one knows i think that is the 1000000 dollar question are we going to hear from maxwell

because migrate. and all of this peter is that we don't find out anything new we don't find out anything a deal gets made it all disappears and that's the last we hear of it but this is a big big network that i'm confident of this is a big network with a lot of very powerful people involved in this game that i'm very confident of your generator. both of you created me on this and that's really good it shows your gauge here but isn't it a sad indictment on the justice system that we all have great will we actually hear from her i mean i watched the indictment being announced lots are on television ok and that was the 1st thought in my mind is that she should ever make it into court and what are you know raise their hand and take the open what we hear from her because what happened with whatever happened that you're it is an indictment of the judicial system is that we're now in a position we have to wonder if they'll even brought up created

a case that will actually be tried. i don't think anybody blames you or anybody else i mean it is not. it doesn't say anything that nobody trusts the justice system anymore because we've seen it year after year after year of cases fall through the cracks i mean yes we don't know what happens is jeffrey have seen i hope that one day we'll find something because everybody believes that what we've been told is not what happened and and people feel like things are being held from the now there are some factors there are such as national security concerns and things like that you don't want being leaked out certainly had to deal with the d.o.j. before this we're glad that didn't leak out because who knows what they could have gotten in the meantime there you know where she was she wired in the last month where she was she alll all on this operation we don't know these things and so there are times when it's ok you know that she was part of an immunity i mean she was unnamed that she was part of an immunity deal i mean. as part of discovery can

we learn about. immunity deal. i'm not sure i would imagine that we will not because the contacts that she has if we might not learn about it because if we're trying to restore so going back real quick to your point on how we don't trust the justice system i mean epstein this wasn't the 1st time he had been indicted or gone before a jury he was let go under the previous administration and so we've seen it time and again i mean nobody knew who massa was unless you were part of the un or circle of people and high influencers that she ran around in her circles which none of us in the general public really knew who she was and still recently so they were able to keep her influence on everything that was going on with that scene under wraps i mean i don't remember hearing a lot about this so i think right now the justice department is in a tough position there been a lot of people they found out who were doing some pretty sketchy things here and they're trying to keep this under wraps i do think i'm still trying to have a little bit of hope in this even if we don't you're going forward now even if we

don't hear about the immunity deal you know who it is we go to we're going to go to a short break after a short break and when especially the state of. the world is driven by shaped by those with. thinks. we dare to ask. so we were sinners are. just going to be.

remember he just came down from where up with a ticket did you hear that oh. antarctica is a very international community i. mean used to. have to. do this if it is this stuff that i need to do. there's a push for them at the with mr newcome business for their nuclear cooperation in antarctica is everything because he was polluted with the forms of t.v. with the above the. law they have i would have liked to go back but i decided not to take this life. with my grandpa to you that.

welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm curious about to remind you we're discussing. ok let's go back to milwaukee let's talk about a potential defense here i mean what you see i'd be hearing and i suppose if you were going to be a good defense lawyer maxwell she's going to pull a me too but she was the victim here i does not and he as a female attorney how does the how do you feel about that kind of. that's going to be garbage and you know what there are a lot of oh let's just start out right now ok there are a lot of situations where a former victim might have partaken i mean the f.b.i. investigators have a lot of terms for it which are a little too crass for t.v. right now you know top top girl and bottom girl and things like that

a lot of them were former victims i think we're going to see some of those are some names of already been circulating as maybe involved but but naxal herself and alex brought this up earlier you brought this you know robert maxwell her father and was correct on this has a long history and intelligence for intelligence u.k. intelligence different government agencies i mean this woman has been around for a long time she is pictured on the throne of british royalty she is sitting there how do you get access to something like that without having your hands there i think that i think she was pulling the strings that have seen i don't think a jury is going to buy that she was this former victim plus one of the victims themselves have come out saying that nasa was not only instrumental in getting her and bringing her but showed her how to do things and did that you know that goes far beyond what somebody would do and so i think i don't think a jury is going to buy that i don't think they're going to care and lest we forget the jails don't take too kindly to people that do things to children and could you imagine a women's prison how they're going to feel about that so i think maxwell has

a lot of other concerns but a jury is not going to feel that in terms of a defense attorney position they can try to make that argument they can try to just go on the facts a regardless of your feelings this is this is the deal here that there are too many victims that have come out there remember her standing in the room and doing acts to these young girls herself. got a sweetheart deal here. was one of them in the strategy was this to discredit all of the alleged victims here in this day and age i think that's going to be a pretty rough course the tape here. ok and considering the the tender age of some of these girls here me. and again being very very narrow on these very specific issues here that is going to be a way to keep it under control here the thing is that i guess what we need to know is that there were negotiations before the and b.

and i are now swell birthday and if they fell apart why and i don't think anyone's going to tell the tell us at any time so. we're not going to find out and dershowitz is also undergoing a defamation case with virginia governor as well so he's he's also tied into this pretty pretty deeply i mean. you know peter that the whole thing is. we need to get justice on this we need to get some answers i said this during what was going on with epstein that if they don't get epstein and we don't understand exactly what's going on there is going to be hell to pay and sure enough we saw what happened with epstein and now everyone is now looking at maxwell and everyone is happy they got maxwell but there's still people at this very moment who are saying we have not seen her we have no photos did they really get her is this all one big intelligence reuss is she going to disappear again i mean we need to get

some answers here i mean i think the me you know roger stone i mean they called c.n.n. in vans they had the swat team in the floodlights and everything you know look at it but this case. we're getting some reports that that this was this wasn't exactly the feds knocking on her door and her coming along understand from what we're getting reports from from the new york post and some other mainstream media that there was an operation to apprehend her there were a tro and there were you know 2030 feds they they had this whole staying going on and they got her. he didn't destroy any thing. but this big stack coming along with a phone call saying come to the office and turn yourself in either so there's still a lot of unanswered questions if they were working on some sort of plea deal and there was some negotiation going on you know you have to ask the question if this was going on then why did they have so many officers and and so many f.b.i.

agents to take or in another question i have peter is there was a lot of misinformation as to julian's whereabouts where was this coming from there's a lot of articles saying that she was in brazil that she was in paris france just a week before we found out she was you know am sure we had credible sources quote a credible source saying she is in france she is in paris she's staying at an apartment 5 blocks down from jeffrey abstains apartment in france i mean everyone said ok that's where she is and then one week later lone behold she's in new hampshire so you know we're we're speculating right now but we need to get some answers here if we don't get some answers very very afraid as to as to what's going to happen next the public's faith is a roading is eroding in the justice system you know again particularly and i gave the example of roger stone and you know that he and the justice department want to make a big deal about that i mean i mean everyone knows my opinion i mean this whole prosecution

against roger stone this is just a farce but i mean in the case of maxwell that this is something that we have heard a lot about learned a lot about. there's a lot of accusations and accusations that are quite detailed of course we you know we have to we have a presumption of innocence that's the whole point of the process here but i mean you would have thought after watching that press conference on friday that they would like to show a little bit of their handiwork if they had been not that i'm aware of i mean just like alex said here i mean don't you have the perp walk i mean handcuffs i mean one picture not you know and that brings me to alex acosta i mean and i'm not i'm not going after him ok but you know he does we have our deal that that epstein was given i mean really truly dreadful deal but it comes to justice i mean even the victims were any been informed about it and why i need to be convinced why there isn't going to be another house across the situation in this case convince me

jennifer please. i'm going to do my best here i don't think there's going to be another alice to cause a situation one acosta's gone there's a new sheriff in town i think bill barr has shown himself to not only be a formidable adversary of criminals he's he's tried very hard despite media attempts in the u.s. but he's tried very hard to separate himself from any kind of political motivation but bill maher has done a good job of following the rule of law at that hearing to that end even if it hasn't hit all the headlines in the new york times they have in the d.o.j. you mention roger stone it is a many parts about that are a travesty of justice system so is general michael flynn case his entire case was a complete travesty of the justice system and i mean look at what happened there i mean you had the deal j. itself saying you know what we were wrong oh by the way all those other prosecutors have been fired or left and we're dropping these charges we're now seeing what's going on yes there are some other questions people can ask about the f.b.i.'s role

in all that but the justice department itself i think there has been an effort to clean house i think there has been an effort to try to restore that i think that's why we haven't seen anything but bill barr is somebody that knows what's going on and he is somebody i believe that is going to take action and i think the fact that we haven't seen the leaks i actually get more concerned when there are leaks to the new york times the washington post all these mainstream outlets when then when there are not so yes we do have a lot of questions now but remember unlike in the acosta situation even if we don't know what happened at scene he was in prison and he was going to go away for life or what he did and maxwell has now been apprehended yes we haven't seen that he has might be part of the clear range or whatever else whatever was leaked maybe some of these leaks are leaks or to preserve her life or her safety but but i do think we're seeing a trajectory change yes it's slow yes we have lost faith in the justice department specifically from the previous administration and some of the things we saw with stone and with michael flynn but i think we're starting to see. slow trajectory

going in the right direction with a new sheriff in town with a clean house and with things that have not been leaked which he has lead to some questions but i do believe much sooner than we realize there are going to be fall of arrests because this is a conspiracy charge not trafficking not anything else it means there were public officials involved in this why and she knows intelligence community so well did she have videotapes was this a blackmail operation was this a healthy way government decisions i mean public corruption puts that into question and so i think we're going to start seeing some arrests coming out of this somewhat of an avalanche effect going to be looked at if i can stay with you here i mean when i look at the end i mean it's from like you know you sort of like you know the 7 literotica you know. well is alleged to be part of what about all the other victims i mean jeffrey obscene apparently it wasn't a monster just for those 3 years ok what about the victims all of the victims or

anyone that wants to. get some kind of closure with this trial that it's just like you know you for them but you know what about everybody else because the last question i had in my introduction is that will we ever get justice. well here's the other thing and i am sorry to do this but i'm going to give a metaphor because it helps people to understand this so i often reference the movie taken when i was working with some trafficking organizations and things like that i found that taking on was a very good metaphor for that so in the movie taken the 1st one when he's going to try to find his daughter he goes through so many levels the kid who found her at the airport there's another group of people then this group of people and he finally gets to the guy with the mansion at the end it has a secret room an elevator where people are doing better get so that guy that guy seems to be the one that was the key to all of it setting everything up arranging everything and then of course the final purchase is the girl may have been a science or so what i say about this i could maxwell and the thing of the rich american are the rich billionaire who's at the end there that had that big house

and he's arranging all this stuff i thought macs. well there what i think the government is doing right here now in terms of justice for the victims is not only getting this guy at the end cause that's the guy to get if you want to actually stop this from the other victims you get the max was you get the ones who are from cheating this but you also get everybody else down the level and everybody by every member is a multibillion dollar operation it is going to come out at some point how jeffrey epstein not his money again as alex and we are speculating on this but nobody knows right now how this guy got his money but we do know factually that a sex trafficking is a multi-trillion dollar. profit making enterprise throughout the world and so you're looking at billions and billions and billions of dollars they go into the trafficking and that's what we even know of not even black market money and so what they're doing here and that's where i think the victims can have a little bit of hope is that getting this top person she has information on the purchasers because naxal has no job and epstein has no job and no resources if their finances if they're payers if they fall to the wayside and so when you start

getting the finances we start getting the big money behind this operation that's where it goes down and that's where. alex last 20 seconds or the other wrist knows everything about all 3 of us but they don't know how jeffrey obsidian got their money explain that to me last 20 seconds by prego they know they don't peter we wanted to share it with us they go they go there's always a money trail but i agree with what jennifer said there are actually a lot of people as well as bats well who helped epstein to do what he did so i'm hoping for a lot more indictments and a lot more names to come out i'm not saying they're as high in the network as maxwell but there are still a lot of people that the d.o.j. can go after any should go after them because you know the lore they're sure to help should be paid if it doesn't happen you know one of a quite well i guess jennifer and i also want to thank our viewers for watching us your r.p.c. in excel remember. time

after time called parisian to repeat the same mantra sustainability very important it's accelerating transitions to sustainable transport sustainability stay number man at a more equitable and sustainable well. they claim that production is completely hamas gone dissolute. be got into congress on the models and it builds on the present companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away this is 2nd eldest that's the point and even as i read much of the steep mountains the sun moves in me was me doing the nieman i'm stymied seemed to be based on that understood look to see when .

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some months i will be someone's i mean i know that when you know i am going to. morrow. new research shows delays to counter treatment in the u.k. due to the corona virus could cause an extra $6000.00 deaths we speak to a man who only discovered he had advance counsel when he finally got so much did they go. this is devastated and this is not the most i can see it's new words to put forward few. new words to describe. the state of. the world races to find a coronavirus vaccine a new survey reveals surprising amount of people wouldn't be willing to take it we head to the streets to find out what the concerns are. i'd want to read all the information 1st to be skeptical of it.