perjury charges rounding proceedings in 2006 why do you think it's these specific ones you think it's because. the prosecution thinks they can get this i mean it's like a slam dunk. well one reason that i think these particular charges are here we have a new federal laws that extend the statute of limitations for victims that are still alive and so of the victims that have come forward that have been involved in the litigation they're still alive they'd be in late thirty's early forty's and it would be able to member said make a very credible as a victim the 2nd reason and i think there's a lot that can be said for these particular charges there are certain prosecutors i know myself i've looked at these kind of questionably because they could have charged under a much harsher sentence given what's come forward but it's not uncommon during a grand jury proceeding or an indictment before an indictment is not uncommon when

charges are 1st lodged if those aren't leaked to the media for them to try to strike a deal with somebody before or to strike a deal with somebody and i think in this case we might be able to deal that was already previously struck with her and the indictment being proof of the u.s. holding up their end of the bargain where you did just the program in one. day what it is it is your feeling is it your feeling. that there were negotiations behind the scenes going on over the last year because my it seems to me that it is something which you're going to feel oh my god feeling is that they're absolutely were and i think you know we're not used to this in america a leak free investigation we're really not used to our so our agency is now not having any leaks but apparently this was a leak free situation i think it was for many reasons one this is a woman who has multiple identities multiple names passports connections all over the world she could have easily escape certainly we saw headlines about different countries and states. that she was then said to think that she's right now back on

the new hampshire a lot of this doesn't make any sense i do think that there was a background deal especially after what happened with jeffrey himself they're not going to want anything to leak out or anything to be known about this so with all the people that are worried about what happened to her now i think the government has already got much of what they wanted from her and terms of striking a deal you know how like see again looking at the specific charges it seems to me that they feel confident that they have enough that that will stick i mean look we'll get a good at least that conviction on something. the same time this is kind of a it's kind of pivoting away from so many other questions of so many of us have changed because they're open a lot of multiple multiple personalities very well known very very well but by focusing very specifically on these charges it might not shed light on those issues and maybe i'm just speculating here that may be part of the process here that both

sides agreed to go ahead hour maybe i mean i think we are seeing a shift towards pretended to be honest i think there's a lot of talk now about presenter and his relationship with chile and there's a lot of talk about that and we are seeing hints coming out of the u.k. and coming out of the media in the u.k. that just lame probably did have some sort of agreement in place and she has a clean already formulated and we see that a lot of that's being leaked from her friend from one of her friend a confidant who said that she spoke with joe lane about a month ago laura goldman spoke with such a lame will not turn over evidence or turn over any information on prince andrew because she values their relationship but but she did say that you lane did feel about a month ago that the road was coming to an end and the walls were closing i believe the direct quote is that she felt that the road was coming to a close so obviously we know for at least a month the better part of. a month maybe 2 that there were that there was some

kind of negotiation some kind of wheeling and dealing that was taking place in the background in order to work to come to where we are today if it jennifer i mean i just can't hope to get the feeling that the prosecution just wants to get a conviction i mean it's almost kind of like to wash their hands of the whole thing you know what i mean he does it with the more we delve into this one the case that they seem to have on the list so the sitting sex from a minor i mean it's a beginning of the 1st decade of this century here i mean there's there's a cost business involved in here there's a lot of murkiness of it at d.o.j. and i just can't help but feel that you know and you just want to get one conviction to be done with it because there's so many hands of worms that i think obviously a lot of people don't want to delve into but at the same time they've made they've made a promise that they will come against this some kind of conclusion here go ahead

jeff. it's a good point and it's a good question to be asking but there are a couple things in this case that i think actually it goes far beyond max well i think that the 1st thing is to see the department within the southern district of new york the prosecutors within the d.o.j. that are actually working on this case is the public corruption unit it's not the criminal unit sex trafficking human trafficking anything like that it's a public corruption you know which means that this case goes far beyond even ms maxwell or abstain and into which public officials that there are and there are at least one public official that is involved that could include british royalty that could include any kind of government official or how this was involved so it is one point the 2nd are conspiracy charges it's very very interesting that the d.o.j. have made these conspiracy charges because federal conspiracy statutes state that anybody you don't even have to know the extent of the crimes themselves as long as

there is a plan some sort of alleged plan and an overt act taken and further inside that plan it doesn't matter what the overt act is whether you flew a plane or. something are set up a modeling thing or something else then you can be charged with part of that same exact conspiracy so the conspiracy charge itself opens it up to multiple other people i do not think this will stop at her if it had stopped with her and it would have been a much more clear and distinct charge rather than conspiracy conspiracy leaves it open for the government to be able to put in new people and new evidence and you coconspirators well i mean oh it sounds like from what we just heard from jennifer there is potentially a huge dragnet i mean a lot of people get caught up into this but we have to remember that maxwells going to have her day in court and she's going to have her what she wants to get out in the in the public realm and her own defense here i think all of us following this

very strange story. i have to assume i think correctly that she knows the names and dates and places and you know it considering it would be netflix. series that i'd be one was watching it a lot of names have been dropped there ok and gives everyone jennifer just said when it comes to conspiracy here this is potentially really huge but why do i still get this really terrible feeling they don't want to keep it very very narrow that means they're working colluding with. the defense or. maxwell herself i mean it seems to me everybody will want to keep is narrower well i mean i hope that we get to hear from maxwell i think that's the fear that everyone has everybody germy get ahead of me on this i don't need to get caught about that to keep it up it's like well i mean you said it peter that the question that everyone has is are we going to hear from maxwell because we didn't hear from epstein that's for sure and that's left a big question mark hanging over everyone's head about what's going on here no one

really even knows what happened to epstein we don't even know who this guy really was you match the net if netflix documentary yeah makes a lot of assumptions and a lot of speculations but we still don't really know who this guy was where he got his money what he was doing was he working for someone else was he working on his own was he part of a government intelligence agency was backs while working for him or was he working for maxwell even maxwell has a very color colorful and checkered past as well her family is definitely an interesting thing to take a look at her father in particular so i mean i think your fear is everyone's fear that's what makes this story so fascinating is it's taking so many different twists and turns god i hope we hear from maxwell but are we going to i don't know no one knows i think that is the 1000000 dollar question are we going to hear from maxwell

because migrate. and all of this peter is that we don't find out anything new we don't find out anything a deal gets made it all disappears and that's the last we hear of it but this is a big big network that i'm confident of this is a big network with a lot of very powerful people involved in this game that i'm very confident of your generator. both of you created me on this and that's really good it shows your gauge here but isn't it a sad indictment on the justice system that we all have great will we actually hear from her i mean i watched the indictment being announced lots on television ok and that was the 1st thought in my mind is that she should ever make it into court and what are you know raise their hand and take the open well here because of what happened with whatever happened that jeffrey mc it is an indictment of the judicial system is that we're now in a position we have to wonder if they'll even brought up created

a case that will actually be tried. i don't think anybody blames you or anybody else i mean it is not. it doesn't say anything that nobody trusts the justice system anymore because we've seen it year after year after year of cases fall through the cracks i mean yes we don't know what happens and jeffrey have seen i hope that one day we'll find something because everybody believes that what we've been told is not what happened and and people feel like things are being held from the now there are some factors there are such as national security concerns and things like that the you don't want being leaked out certainly had to deal with the d.o.j. before this we're glad that didn't leak out because who knows what they could have gotten in the meantime there you know where she was she wired in the last month where she was she alll all on this operation we don't know these things and so there are times when it's ok you know that she was part of an immunity i mean she was unnamed that she was part of an immunity deal i mean. as part of discovery can

we learn about. immunity deal. in the fight i'm not sure i would imagine that we will not because the contacts that she has if we might not learn about it because if we're trying to restore so going back real quick to your point on how we don't trust the justice system i mean epstein this wasn't the 1st time he had been indicted or gone before dr he was let go under the previous administration and so we've seen it time and again i mean nobody knew who was unless you were part of the un or circle of people and high influencers that she ran around in her circles which none of us in the general public really knew who she was and still recently so they were able to keep her influence on everything that was going on with that scene under wraps i mean i don't remember hearing a lot about this so i think right now the justice department is in a tough position there been a lot of people they found out who were doing some pretty sketchy things here and they're trying to keep this under wraps i do think i'm still trying to have a little bit of hope in this even if we don't you're going forward now even if we

don't hear about the immunity deal you know who it is we go to war going to go to a short break and after a short break will anyone especially not just stay. there were rumors are sinners are. going to be. there one of those is just going to go on forever up with if they're going to interfere that oh. i'm talking about is a very international community i. mean it used to occur we're going to. we just look at that as this goes so far you. know the push them with the with. the business with their new course we're. taught to go is everything. refuse

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doing church. goes a long way to cerberus team you're. a know a not desires you know hospital. in transporting the suspect james core inflation and then america on the sex act and that means they are. she loved this person for 44 years. it's all been minutes she want you guys she you and was you cannot measure. it it was easy. she told her drugs to be. really a man when you are a going to. let it. get out no i did it almost that thing it might look others are getting me out at the time and it is i am a well meaning they say i am me i love when you're nice i am. the only peace on months i know we still might not we never know when you know i'm going to.

welcome back to crossfire where all things are considered i'm curious about to remind you we're discussing. ok let's go back to milwaukee let's talk about a potential defense here i mean. i'd be hearing and i suppose if you were going to be a good defense lawyer of maxwell she's going to pull a me too but she was the victim here how does that and as a female attorney how does that how do you go about trying to. that's going to be garbage and you know what there are a lot of oh let's just start out right now ok there are a lot of situations where a former victim might have partaken i mean the f.b.i.

investigators have a lot of terms for it which are a little too crass for t.v. right now you know top top girl and bottom girl and things like that a lot of them were former victims i think we're going to see some of those there are some names of already been circulating as maybe involved but but naxal herself and alex brought this up earlier you brought this up you know robert maxwell her father and is correct on this has a long history and intelligence for intelligence u.k. intelligence different government agencies i mean this woman has been around for a long time she is pictured on the throne of british royalty she is sitting there how do you get access to something like that without having your hands there i think that i think she was pulling the strings that have seen i don't think a jury is going to buy that she was this former victim plus one of the victims themselves has come out saying that nasa was not only instrumental in getting her and bringing her but showed her how to do things to and did that you know that goes far beyond what somebody would do and so i think i don't think

a jury is going to buy that i don't think they're going to care and lest we forget the jails don't take too kindly to people that do things to children and can you imagine a women's prison how they're going to feel about that so i think maxwell has a lot of other concerns but a jury is not going to feel that in terms of a defense attorney position they can try to make that argument they can try to just go on the facts a regardless of your feelings this is this is the deal here that there are too many victims that have come out there remember her standing in the room and doing acts to these young girls herself. got a sweetheart deal here. his lawyers. one of them in the strategy was this to discredit all of the alleged victims here in this day and age i think that's going to be a pretty rough course the tape here. ok considering the the tender age of some of these girls here me. and again being very very narrow on these very specific issues

here that is going to be a way to keep it under control here the thing is that i guess what we need to know is that if there were negotiations before the end and i swear an ounce well birthday and if they fell apart why and i don't think anyone's going to tell the tell us at any time so. we're not going to find that out and dershowitz is also undergoing a defamation case with virginia governor as well so he's he's also tied into this pretty pretty deeply i mean. you know peter that the whole thing is. we need to get justice on this we need to get some answers i said this during what was going on with epstein that if they don't get epstein and we don't understand exactly what's going on there is going to be hell to pay and sure enough we saw what happened with epstein and now everyone is now looking at maxwell and everyone is happy they got maxwell but there's still people at this very moment who are saying we have not seen her we have no photos did they really get her is this all

one big intelligence reuss is she going to disappear again i mean we need to get some answers here i mean act like the me that you know roger stone i mean they called c n n didn't bands they had the swat team in the floodlights and everything yeah i would get it but but this case. we're getting some reports that that this was this wasn't exactly the feds knocking on her door and her coming along understand from what we're getting reports from from the new york post and some other mainstream media that there was an operation to apprehend her there were a tro and there were you know 2030 feds they they had this whole staying going on and they got her now she. just or any thing. but this big stack coming along with a phone call saying come to the office and turn yourself in either so there's still a lot of unanswered questions if they were working on some sort of plea deal and

there was some negotiation going on you know you have to ask the question if this was going on then why did they have so many officers and and so many f.b.i. agents to take her in another question i have peter is there was a lot of misinformation as to julian's whereabouts where was this coming from there's a lot of articles saying that she was in brazil that she was in paris france just a week before we found out she was you know am sure we had credible sources quote a credible source saying she is in france she is in paris she's staying at an apartment 5 blocks down from jeffrey abstains apartment in france i mean everyone said ok that's where she is and then one week later lone behold she's in new hampshire so you know we're we're speculating right now but we need to get some answers here if we don't get some answers very very afraid as to as to what's going to happen next the public's faith is a roading is eroding in the justice system you know again particularly and i gave

the example of roger stone and you know that he and the justice department want to make a big deal about that i mean i mean everyone knows my opinion i mean this whole prosecution against roger stone this is just a farce but i mean in the case of maxwell that this is something that we have heard a lot about learned a lot about. there's a lot of accusations and accusations that are quite detailed of course we you know we have that we have a presumption of innocence that's the whole point of the process here but i mean you would have thought after watching that press conference on friday that they would like to show a little bit of their handiwork if they had been not that i'm aware of ok i mean just like alex said here i mean don't you have the perp walk i mean handcuffs i mean one picture not you know and that brings me to alex acosta i mean and i'm not i'm not going after him ok but you know because we have our deal that that epstein was given i mean really truly dreadful deal when it comes to justice i mean even

the victims were he been informed about it and why i need to be convinced why there isn't going to be another house across this situation in this case convince me jennifer please. i'm going to do my best here i don't think there's going to be another allyssa cause a situation one cost is gone there's a new sheriff in town i think bill barr has shown himself to not only be a formidable adversary of criminals he's he's tried very hard despite media attempts in the us but he's tried very hard to separate himself from any kind of political motivation but bill maher has done a good job of following the rule of law at that hearing to that end even if it hasn't hit all the headlines in the new york times they have in the d.o.j. you mentioned roger stone it is a many parts about that case are a travesty of justice system so is general michael flynn case his entire case was a complete travesty of the justice system and i mean look at what happened there i mean you had the deal j. itself saying you know what we were wrong oh by the way all those other prosecutors

have been fired or left and we're dropping these charges we're now seeing what's going on yes there are some other questions people can ask about the f.b.i.'s role in all that but the justice department itself i think there has been an effort to clean house i think there has been an effort to try to restore that i think that's why we haven't seen anything but a bill barr is somebody that knows what's going on and he is somebody i believe that is going to take action and i think the fact that we haven't seen the leaks i actually get more concerned when there are leaks to the new york times the washington post all these mainstream outlets then when there are not so yes we do have a lot of questions now but remember unlike in the acosta situation even if we don't know what happened epstein he was in prison and he was going to go away for life or what he did and maxwell has now been apprehended yes we haven't seen videos might be part of the clear range or whatever else whatever was leaked maybe some of these leaks are leaks or to preserve her life or her safety but but i do think we're seeing

a trajectory change yes it's slow yes we have lost faith in the justice department specifically from the previous administration and some of the things we saw with stone and with michael flynn but i think we're starting to see. a slow trajectory going in the right direction with a new sheriff in town with a clean house and with things that have not been leaked which he has lead us some questions but i do believe much sooner than we realize there are going to be fall of arrests because this is a conspiracy charge not trafficking not anything else it means there were public officials involved in this why and she knows intelligence community so well did she have videotapes was this a blackmail operation was this a healthy way government decisions i mean public corruption puts that into question and so i think we're going to start seeing some arrests coming out of this somewhat of an avalanche effect if i can say with you here i mean when i look at the end i mean it's from like you know you sort of like you know the 7 trouble you know. well is alleged to be part of what about all the other victims i mean jeffrey obscene

apparently it wasn't a monster just for those 3 years ok what about the victims the victims or anyone that wants to. get some kind of closure with this trial that it's just from 99 to 40 but you know what about everybody else because the last question in my introduction is that will we ever get justice. well here's the other thing and i am sorry to do this but i'm going to give a metaphor because it helps people to understand this so i often reference the movie taken when i was working with some trafficking organizations and things like that i found the take it on was a very good metaphor for that so in the movie taken the 1st one when he's going to try to find his daughter he goes through so many levels the kid who found her at the airport and this other group of people then this group of people and he finally gets to the guy with the mansion at the end has a secret room an elevator where people are doing better get so that guy that guy seems to be the one that was the key to all of it setting everything up arranging everything and then of course the final purchase is the girl and then i answer so

what i say about this i could maxwell and the thing of the rich american are the rich billionaire who's at the end there that had that big house and he's arranging all this stuff i thought macs. well there what i think the government is doing right here now in terms of justice for the victims is not only getting this guy at the end cause that's the guy to get if you want to actually stop this from the other victims you get the max was you get the ones who are from jury in this but you also get everybody else down the level and everybody by now remember is a multibillion dollar operation it is going to come out at some point how jeffrey f.c. not his money again as alex and we are speculating on this but nobody knows right now how this guy got his money but we do know factually that sex trafficking is a multi-trillion dollar. profit making enterprise throughout the world and so you're looking at billions and billions and billions of dollars they go into the trafficking and that's what we even know of not even black market money and so what they're doing here and that's where i think the victims can have a little bit of hope is that getting this top person she has information on the

purchasers because naxal has no job and epstein has no job and no resources if their finances if they're payers if they fall to the wayside and so when you start getting the finances we start getting the big money behind this operation that's where it goes down and that's where you know it's the last 20 seconds or the irish knows everything about all 3 of us but they don't know how jeffrey obsidian got their money explain that to me last 20 seconds by prego they know that they don't peter we want them to share it with us they know they know there's always a money trail but i agree with what jennifer said there are actually a lot of people as well as bats well who helped epstein to do what he did so i'm hoping for a lot more indictments and a lot more names to come out i'm not saying they're as high in the network as maxwell but there are still a lot of people that the d.o.j. can go after any should go after them because you know the lore they're sure to help should be paid if it doesn't happen you know one of a quite well i guess jennifer and i also want to thank our viewers for watching us

your r.p.c. in it remember. you cannot be vulgar with me yet you want. time after time called parisian to repeat the same mantra sustainability it's very

important to accelerate the transition to sustainable prize board sustainability stay number man not a more equitable and sustainable well. they claim their production is completely harmless hollow dissolute the numbers lieblich looking at kakadu dumbass my models and i didn't design the books on the companies want us to feel good about buying their products while the damage is being done far away there's a 2nd eldest that's the point any minute i need money to skip the system moves and you missed me doing to me when i'm stunting them in the best understood look who is going to. join me every thursday on the all excitement show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see that. right.

welcoming our viewers from around the world live from central london this is not a u.k. . breaking news this is a crane collapses on the building in london injuring several with others still trapped beneath it will be hearing from our correspondent live at the scene shortly . the world health organization warns the coronavirus pandemic is far from over and the mosques and social distancing are here to stay for the foreseeable future here for new special envoy has been speaking exclusively to all to u.k. . time coming to terms with the reality that this is here to stay i don't think it's going to go away any time should. spend spend spend the chance of announces his son a statement and to protect jobs and kick starting britain's economy in the

opposition says we were promised a new deal but got a meal deal we're getting reaction from an economic sense but. that is the b.b.c. comes on the farm to present a branded whites with the carrot as during a discussion on racism stereotypes and is the term offensive will be both sides of the debate. we start with breaking news this hour a $65.00 foot crane has collapsed over homes in east london injuring 4 people leaving some trapped underneath our education it was dusty joins us from the scene so what more do you know. well as you can see directly behind me is the base of the crane that's believed to have fallen down it's believed to be 20 meters of height and form down on to residential buildings directly behind this building site right here i'm in the back end of that building site that construction site where

we understand that crane was working on the building site directly behind me we believe that around 4 people on. said to be injured witnesses said there could be a lot more now as i say i'm on the back streets but at the front there seems to be a huge police and paramedic presence they're also being accompanied by special hazardous environment paramedics here at the very scene but it could be a lot more people being injured as a result we also understand that people appear to be trapped inside those residential buildings and the london fire brigade has confirmed that they are working to try and free people inside the residential terrace homes on the other side of this very street we've also heard from the metropolitan police that confirmed that they got a call around 240 this afternoon 14 telephone calls all to 999 telling them that this crane directly behind me has fallen down on to some residential homes witnesses do say that a man appears to have been rescued from the scene and is currently being treated by

services at the very scene on the other side of the street as i say all floridians all around me are telling us to avoid the area we were directed via resident lives nearby to come through this back street to get to as close to the scene as we possibly could but every road around us is completely blocked off and the authorities are telling the public at this time to avoid the area shadi thank you very much indeed for that live update. the world health organization as well that face coverings must be warm to contain the virus in that coated 19 lot be disappearing any time soon the w h o's special envoy for covert 19 dr david nabarro has told aunt u.k. that social distancing is integrity to stopping the spread. the reason why we've been talking about physical disk to seeing is because this is the key to preventing transmission and there are 3 parts to it one is maintaining a pretty good distance true is wearing face protection. is maintaining very

careful hygiene services and the like. and yes it people are not practicing these forms of behavior then there is a risk of recurrence we don't call it 2nd why because the virus is all around us anyway but it can come back and we can get recrudescence or recurrence very easily if people don't practice the present go distancing and praise protection and 9 jeanne what do you make of the british government's messaging the lifting of the lockdown well one of the difficulties about being government is that you have to be able to talk to every single interest who wants to be heard and wants to be understood so in government you've got to talk to the owners of businesses you've got to talk to people running schools got to talk to people look up to big office

coding is people looking up to security in public transport and i think that's why getting a consistent message is often difficult i'm in a fortunate position of being a public health person and i've given you the absolute core of the guidance that we like to give i would like to say to all governments i think it is helpful if you explain to people all good time that what you're trying to do is to help them be depended against this virus because the virus isn't going to go away and that i think if it were understood and appreciated by everybody would lead to a much greater appreciation of why we want the behavior changes that we call for can we have some clarity on the use of facemasks from the w h r u the organization was slow to advise on face coverings what we would he now advise to make this compulsory given the new evidence of the virus being able. well 1st of

all i'm not going to just accept that last remark that w.r.i. chose had a consistent and clear position on price covering which is the good quality face coverings that really do filter out all particles essential part of protecting health workers and others whose jobs have become in frequent contact with people who have the bars but others really ought to be wearing face coverings expression of dead can't maintain physical distance saying and the w.h.o. now it's seeing these increased numbers of people are getting infected all over the world is saying because of the possibilities of a symptomatic go pretty symptomatic spread we need to be a little bit more open about the desirability of price protections but doubly right child cannot order people to wear price protection only governments can do that but

i think all of us are saying if it is recognised that this is a major problem police were more and more people where price protection is especially in situations our public transport or where close contact is inevitable just finally i know this is a difficult question but when can we expect this to be all over or like for me it's not a difficult question because i'm coming to terms with the reality that this virus is here to stay. just like 2530 years ago this new virus called h r i became a long causing aids and it's here to stay so cope it is here to stay i don't think it's going to go away any time soon and so that's why i'm suggesting to everybody as the human race we have to learn to live with this virus and get on

with our lives despite the fact that it's really dangerous and unpleasant and i believe we will be able to do so while the w.h.o. has finally acknowledged that there is emerging evidence of covert $900.00 airborne transmission after over $200.00 health experts highlighted that to the organization but them clarified the dominate his position on this and explain to us what it means in practicality we've always tried to encourage people to understand the primary mode of transmission of this virus and i want to stress that that is still believed to be true droplets droplets are small drops of saliva and are spirit tree secretions and usually they're not protected further than about a meter and really if you are 2 meters your clear of them now

if you get some very very small particles. they are light enough to be picked up by the air then they couldn't go further than true meters and the issue that many scientists have been bringing to the w.h.o. recently is asking the. knowledge that you can know how small particles that are born and yes there are w.h.o. house actually knowledge that it all along but it continues to say that this airborne transmission is less common. the chance of as released his long awaited summer statement with an emergency mini budget helped the british economy recover from the coronavirus crisis among the measures 8000 pounds bonus

for businesses that retain their furloughed staff through the general once the scheme ends in november a youth job creation scheme will pay businesses over $6000.00 pounds to create new jobs for 16 to 24 year olds $2000000000.00 pounds in grants will be made available to make homes more energy efficient with a further $1000000000.00 to retrofit public buildings and the housing market will be stimulated with a temporary cut to stamp duty until march 31st with average savings afford a half 1000 pounds for property buyers and the troubled hospitality sector will be boosted by slashing v.a.d. from 20 percent to 5 percent for 6 months as well as a 10 percent discount for all to spend in restaurants from monday to wednesday where she's seen the british public's insurance throughout the crisis would help fuel the country's economic revival we will not be defined by this crisis but by our response to it it isn't an ambiguous choice to make this moment meaningful for our country in a way that transcends the frustration and loss of recent months it is

a plan to turn our national recovery into millions of stories of personal renewal. while welcome by a business leaders the labor party said the announcement didn't go far enough and was simply kicking the can down the road until the autumn budget. it should have been the day when the millions of british people worried to fight their jobs and their future prospects how deludes taken off their shoulders and should have been the day when we got the u.k. economy firing again today britain should have had a pocked to work budgets but in states we got this summer statements with many of the big decisions pay it off until later as the benches opposite knew full well. but more about joined by former director of the institute of economic affairs dr jamie white's jamie opposition figures are saying this months to

a meal deal rather than a result style new deal are they right. yes it is and it isn't roosevelt's new deal i don't think i mean that maybe what the labor party would like to see done but i think that's why i hope that's not on the conservative agenda. i mean there's a lot of spending in it. but it's kind of fiddly stuff you know they're not building message dams and so on like resulted. it's all the demand really what they're trying to do is boil up consumer demand you know these effectively vultures the use of restaurants. reduction of the 80 which will make things but she doesn't it's all aimed at getting consumers spending. that's fine as far as it goes but if you look at what happens during these kind of downturns consumer

spending doesn't fall that much because you know people going to consume that go to buy food clothes and so on what has to really fall is investment so the business people stop investing and if you want jobs you need investment and i think that's really very little. that will the will. what prompted your pretensions king then i mean that is being welcomed by business leaders isn't it but of course an enormous expense just to keep people who would still have a job but of course being woken by business leaders because if they were planning to bring people back anyway now they can get. what kind of free so of course they'd like that but my point is this if you are going to make investments that's you're thinking about years years and years ahead because these investments you take a long time to return if you nothing about employing somebody again you'll normally want to keep them on for many years and so if you've got a loss of confidence in the financial future and their own future a little thing like a $1000.00 to bring but one of your employees isn't really going to make

a do that not be wise be invested. well i mean it's as i say it will it will make them slightly more likely to bring back. an employee but things that will make them more confident to invest when they're looking through the future bigger moves for example i think they should have taken the opportunity to remove the employers' national insurance contribution as effect of a tax on employing people. they could have abolished stamp duty altogether to terrible tax it's a transaction tax on house deals it shouldn't happen and the best thing they could have done to encourage investment would have been to reduce the rate of corporate taxation and all of these things by the way they shouldn't all be just fine are they shouldn't be 0 for a few months and then go back to normal because nobody's going to make an investment on that basis they should be you know short permanent plan changes you got 100 employees you're all busy catching evil getting 100000 in return for that

those employees overseas get jobs therefore they do they not create more demand as consumers in the economy yes it's true that if you if you appear investor you want to be demand of course. but as i say if you look at what falls off if you look at spending at the last recession what really fell off was investment not consumption so that you know and again this is just short term as a short term thing and you're in the not impressed by 49000000000 pounds worth of public sector spending you seem to be optically impressed by that on your own but it's an enormous amount of money it's our impressed but in a sense of being kind of shocked but. again what we're seeing here is an increasingly government directed economy. there's no confidence in the administration that the people are in a sense dynamic they want to get on anyway that if the government doesn't get to

move all the the economy will bounce back anyway this is not the standard model. all governments approach recessions in this way they didn't used to really began with the you know the great depression roosevelt prior to that they hadn't got involved in their economic downturns of this kind and that if you look at the history of them being all short v. shaped recovery it's. government involvement on this scale in my book. tends to prolong the problem rather than solving it dr jamie white thank you very much for talking to us live today thank you still to come this hour the b.b.c. comes on the phone to airing a podcast where the presenter branded the white women as currency but as the term offensive we hear from both sides of the debate.

seemed wrong wrong just don't call. me. yet to shape out just being educated and engaged with. the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. up. the world is driven by a dream shaped by our own person of those great. dares thinks. we dare to ask.

join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see that. britain has announces resuming alms exports to saudi arabia despite admitting they are sometimes used in war crimes in yemen. the undertaking that my predecessor gave to the court that we would not grant any new licenses for the export of arms or

military equipment to saudi arabia for possible use in yemen pulls away the incidents which have been assessed to be possible violations of i.h.l. occurred at different times in different circumstances and for different reasons when in june 29th teen the court of appeal ruled that the government had acted unlawfully by licensing the sale of u.k. made arms to saudi forces for use in yemen with that assessment whether incidents in the conflict had amounted to breaches of international humanitarian law well since the bombing of yemen started in march 25th in the u.k. government has issued export licenses worth 5300000000 pounds including 2500000000 pounds worth of licenses relating to bombs missiles and other military goods and human rights organizations around 3 with the u.k.'s decision to resume arms exports this is a deep blue cynical move to restart business as usual when it comes to arms sales hold the government considers to describe a 5 years so i do it aerial assault of yemen which has seen numerous examples of

civilians killed in schools hospitals funeral holes and marketplaces as a set of isolated incidents while in march 2015 a saudi led coalition intervened in yemen against who's here rebels who are fighting the internationally recognized government and control large swathes of territory but humanitarian groups and the un quickly accused saudi led forces of breaching international humanitarian law including bombing schools hospitals weddings and food supplies.

the decision comes just a day after the u.k. and that sanctions on individuals and organizations that abuse human rights including saudi arabia make good on their plates bringing to force the united kingdom's 1st autonomous human rights sanctions regime which gives us the power to impose sanctions on the on those involved in the very worst human rights abuses right around the world and this country makes it crystal clear to those who abuse their power to inflict a magical suffering we will not look the other way you cannot set foot in this country i will seize your blood cribbed gotten gains if you try the u.k. can use the law to bar entry to individuals believed to be responsible for human rights abuses as well as to stop money moving through the banks and cut violators off from that profits while the sanctions target north korea's

a secret police lie on mars military leaders russian officials and the senior saudi intelligence officers believed to be involved in the murder of journalist jamal khashoggi while at the same time agreeing to resume arms sales to saudi arabia so within 2 days the u.k. government seems to have plunged itself into a high stakes di lemma agreeing to sanction a country for human rights abuses and resuming the nigger devolved sales to that country the court says could commit them. campaign against arm sales andrew smith says that the best way to make sure you carry weapons and no longer used against civilians is to stop the sales. arms industry is actually a very small part of the economy cancer but 0.2 percent of jobs but the damage which it does internationally is beyond calculation as we're seeing in yemen where the world's worst humanitarian crisis has been elected and you can meet fighter jets u.k. made bombs new commitments miles of which essential rule and struction where weapons are being exported they're being used and we're seeing the u.k.

made weapons being used to repression against pro-democracy campaigners in hong kong we've seen u.k. made weapons used around atrocities in abuses her own best way to make sure that you care weapons are no longer used in peace of peace is to stop the seals. b.b.c. podcast has come under fire after presenter labeled white women as karen's how can white women in not be carin. educate yourself read some better. the term is usually used to refer to a middle aged middle class white woman who displays racist behavior around a spot a social media backlash with some saying that it sounds like sexism and one m.p. saying he would cancel his t.v. license in response of a.b.c. said that these comments were not part of the podcast and featured only and a short social media clip. but is the term offensive all earlier joined by

a comedian and writer of adult and journalist social commentator not to his son your pulls and the argument actually is is that it is racist it is sexist it is a tool of the patriarchy what women need to do is become together instead of attacking each other is just ridiculous and divisive it it is ignorant i am in no doubt whatsoever that there are entitle people absolutely i have fought long and hard against them i believe that we all you know certainly need more education i'm not going to be told that by people not a pod cast it just doesn't simply doesn't have the same sort of experience i have and i'm not claiming to have the same experience of you as you absolutely but let me just ask you that but many people and so many people believe the term is used to highlight race this attitudes among women and so pointing out racist behavior actually isn't racism isn't and it's got nothing to do with creature well that's just that's on your answer that question 1st and. only what you make of what no it is actually everything to do

a patriarchy and patriarchy links into what you just asked bill the truth is that it's so easy constantly for women to be pitted against each other this is what always happens we need to stop this we need to look at who does this actually keep benefiting right because it certainly doesn't benefit may i don't think 'd it can benefit and what this is is just an opportunity for people who feel a bit ticked off with some white women that they've encountered to give us a good kick in well that isn't going to help anybody is there aren't we now about more unlike to men instead of seeking revenge and sort of let's penalize people for a history that might not have anything to do with may another separating people by gender sexual orientation or race is inappropriate that's exactly what's happening here isn't. every side of her that's ridiculous 1st of all working class white women called sharon a traitor or absolutely black women. were all the creature or whatever they wanted to say is divisive is ridiculous. because the fact of the x. rays it has the kind of behavior that is carried out by someone he named karen is

divisive within itself we always told that women and when we object oh it's time to pull together oh stop your divisive behavior but at the end of the day this goes back years and years and yes i'm expecting whether u.n. vote in the behavior that happened he is a go when white women would ignore the mixed race babies when he found plantations all the way and they didn't want to join join them to get the vote because they thought it was disappearing and there's been so many things that have happened historically which is why there was any of them and that's why it's causing such a stir i even the b.b.c. have to respond to the story well it is we're talking about it now know what is done in the unit were people who actually did demonstrating a behavior that some display that's why people at the point at the beginning that he actually seems to some people to be more offensive to be called right than to actually be very safe you know it's ridiculous they're allowed to debate as they

went out to call these things that's got nothing nothing to do with. that set for the moment more news at the top of the hour. tax ties or financial survival stacey let's learn a salad fill out let's say i'm not sure i get any or at least i'm greased on base of the fight 9 wall street fraud thank you for helping.

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